I can`t zip my lips any longer.

[democrank]

First of all, the scurrilous attackfest here at DU is disheartening. Apparently we have the perfect combination of salivating Freepers, volatile DUers and troublemakers with advanced degrees in goading. The end result is a brazillion I HATE YOUR CANDIDATE threads which sink threads about important issues....like dead soldiers.

I`m absolutely astounded by how little attention we give to any threads about the occupation of Iraq. Know what would straighten that out in a hurry? A big old draft. Suddenly, nobody would give a damn about Chelsea Clinton calling women on The View.

In case you overlooked it, this was posted at DU today: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2842823

The occupation of Iraq continues. People are still dying. It`s wearing down our troops. It`s costing a fortune. It`s ruining Iraq. Sweet Jesus, folks, get a grip!

[polichick]

1. Why do you think there's so much passion expressed here??

The stakes are high ~ everybody knows it and believes their candidate is the one who can make the difference. Besides, this is the GD: Primaries forum.

[durtee librul]

3. Yeah I noticed on the morning shows, especially the

C(linton) N(ews) N(etwork) hardly a word was mentioned about overseads issues other than the bomb threat on the oil rig off Scotland. All politics.

It's a big world out there and we are just a microcosm (sp) of what is really going on around us. Africa comes to mind immediately as well.

[polichick]

9. imo this is just a place to blow off steam...

...doesn't reflect what posters' lives are really about ~ thank goodness!

[smalll]

7. That's right.

It's not called "GD:P" for nothing!

[TexasObserver]

2. it's a primary!! it's natural for the focus to be on divisions among us

How could it be any other way?

As long as there are competing interests for the nomination, there will be heated discussions.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. I think part of the reason everyone is arguing candidate vs candidate *is* IRAQ

In fact, I think Iraq is the single MOST IMPORTANT issue in this race. I think everyone who defends their candidate has Iraq foremost on their mind. Our money is going into the pockets of the military-industrial complex feeding this war, instead of for our elderly, for our vets, for our crumbling infrastructure. We NEED that money. We NEED to stop killing our kids. We NEED to stop killing Iraqis. We need to get the hell out of Iraq, shut the embassy down, and give the UN money to monitor the slow rebuilding of all we destroyed of theirs. We did this for the oil companies. We need to find out what we're going to do about oil, given that it's the oil companies that are the first to lobby AGAINST alternative methods of energy production.

And all that rests on one thing: OUR NEXT PRESIDENT. He/she could start bringing us back to economic health after every damage done to this country from Reagan on, or he/she could destroy this country further. And that is why people in this forum are arguing about which candidate is best, everyone so convinced, everyone so concerned, as if life depended on it. Well, it does.

[sam sarrha]

11. there are so many serious problems, here is another catastrophic problem we CAN NOT IGNORE, over

population is the biggest problem..it is driving all the other problems.. we cant allow problems like this to expand..
http://blog.aflcio.org/2008/02/08/border-crossings-start-in-the-boardroom

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. There are a zillion reasons, that's why we must at all costs keep the GOPers out of the White House

I agree, the DEMS are highly imperfect, but at least with them in the White House, there's room to move, room to start working towards something decent, towards change, etc. There are a lot of problems, my God, LOTS! I personally want the trade deals ended. I don't even want them modified. I want them to die.

[Mz Pip]

5. We should be

hammering the Republicans and their policies not our own candidates. Civil debate on the differences between Hillary and Obama are a good thing but not when they just degenerate into name calling and hyperbole.

I can only hope that the animosity that is displayed here isn't reflective of the the nation as a whole. That would be troubling.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Hill_YesWeWill]

6. I agree 100% thank you, I recently had

a reply to one of my posts recently stating that I'm not pro-Hillary enough, I'm assuming because I don't engage in this kind of behavior, which is ridiculous,

I'm pretty new here, but I think I've figured out how to ignore the spamers though, it really does help!

[LittleBlue]

8. K&R. The big picture is forgotten amidst the nonsense.

Nice thread.

[sam sarrha]

10. early morning was calm.. i enjoyed it, it got frantic again after 11

i totally agree, i just posted this..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4519587&mesg_id=4519960

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2842874&mesg_id=2842874

[TomInTib]

14. That's the problem with living on the West Coast...

and playing guitar until three in the morning.

By the time I awake, this place is soaked with rabid slobber.

[MADem]

12. Here's the sad truth. This will not get traction until the Magic Four Thousandth Poor Bastard dies.

And that will only be the case if there isn't ANY OTHER NEWS to crowd it out.

And you know the GOP will drum something up to tamp down that "bad news" story--maybe some adorable footage of Barney chasing squirrels on the White House lawn, or maybe they'll arrange for Cheney to "clutch the pearls" so everyone's speculating about his health and THAT becomes "the" story.

And then, once we are past that dreadful benchmark, it's on to FIVE thousand...and no one will pay attention until we get there, either--unless we get the GOP outta town.

And that, like it or not, is the truth.

You know, I'm old enough to remember the 'trajectory of Vietnam' very clearly. The young have this impression that there were people in the streets almost straight away, chanting "Hell no, We Won't Go!!!" That's not true, though. A lot of people went--DRAFTED, too--quietly, without a peep, because their WW2 Era parents said "Well, that's what you have to do when your nation calls."

That went on for YEARS. It was only when the numbers being tossed into the meat grinder made one go "OUCH...that's a LOT of kids dying every month," did people begin to take to the streets.

If it weren't for the body armor, we'd have many more planeloads of aluminum transfer cases, and fewer MEDEVAC flights. These numbers are low--check the wounded numbers, and figure, conservatively, that at least a third of those kids would be dead if they were using Vietnam-era equipment. That's a big number.

[OzarkDem]

15. Lack of issuess discussion, esp Iraq is a concern

That's why those who object to the American Idolization of the race are concerned. Some folks are choosing candidates based on their popularity, not on the issues. We've been down that road too many times.

[Riley133]

16. You're absolutely right

Isn't it amazing that the very ones who best represented the Democratic Party are no longer at the top?

[blues90]

17. people seem to forget bush has almost a year left

also these presidential hopefulls have not talked much about Iraq and have pushed it to the rear by coming out into this mad house campaign a year early . Whom ever becomes the next president will still have to deal with this ME mess but who know how they intent to do so .

Their coming out so early tells me Iraq is on the end of their long list of promises they preach about right now .

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. Almost zero mention of Iraq and Afghanistan in these debates

Afghanistan is starting to heat up again and the drug trade being fostered by Karzai, his brothers, and the provincial governors he's appointing is going forward with barely a word spoken. The US is now begging for Europe to send more troops to Afghanistan because they don't have the manpower to take care of the problem. It's now estimated that it will take another 140,000 combat troops to keep Afghanistan from blowing up all over again into a full-fledged war. And we haven't had any debate whatsoever between the Democratic frontrunners about what they intend to do to bring both Israel and the Palestinians to the bargaining table, which I think is one of the big contributors to chaos in the Middle East.

[Psyop Samurai]

18. While I agree about the scurrilous atackfest...

...nothing about the occupation of Iraq is news. The military death count? Not news. Their satanic ritual sacrifice happened five years ago, accompanied by the failure of every single one of our institutions, and human betrayal on an unfathomable scale. The rest is the illusion of time.

Now, if someone decides to hold the murderers (who should long since have been removed - bodily, if necessary) accountable, that is news.

I appreciate your frustration at those wrapped in a reality-denial bubble, but that is what they choose, and I've found no successful formula for breaking through. The situation is further complicated by the fact that we're trapped in a multiplicity of concentric bubbles, such that we can't effectively all get "on the same page".

While I understand the temptation to wield the "big old draft" stick, (and like you, would no doubt find many deserving - hell, I've even fantasized about it), collective punishment is a big no-no. Honestly, there are many souls in this world who are above this whole sick paradigm, and should not, in any circumstance, be subjected to the meat grinder. That is true, unfortunately, for many who have already been subjected.