So Florida and Michigan moved up their primaries to insure their votes would be significant

[rpannier]

Now they've been excluded

AND....

This is the closest Democratic primary since like 1960...

And had they not moved their primaries they'd have been in on Super Tuesday and would have had a HUGE say in the primary race

I think this is a definition of irony is it not???

[dkf]

1. They must be kicking themselves.

Karma people!

[mutant80]

6. They'll be Kicking the General Election if we Disenfranchise them

[ingac70]

2. They moved up their primaries...

knowing damn good and well that the races would end up not counting.

[Ivote]

5. Fl Pugs moved it up

The Fl Legislature is republican & the Gov who signed it into law.

[rateyes]

7. And, all but one Dem joined them. nt

[democrattotheend]

11. If the Dems had not gone along, DNC might have been more lenient

[ingac70]

8. The parties agree on when primaries are held...

not the state legislature or Governor.

[MichiganVote]

15. You need to consider separating out the State from the national party from the voters from the GE

Its not one size fits all. The GOP merely docked their candidates 50% of the delegates and kep their names on the ballot, and their candidates campaigned in the state. Are they experiencing the same level of trouble that the DNC is? No. Why? Because they didn't make it such a big fat hairy ass deal that's why.

Now the Democratic party would like the state of Michigan to save its ass in front of the voters and its not going to happen.

[sandnsea]

3. There was a process to choose SC & NV

11 states submitted applications to be the two new states with an early primary and caucus. FL & MI broke the rules and it's no accident that it's Clinton supporters who pushed it.

[democrattotheend]

9. They did not even apply for early status

They had an opportunity to submit state plans to be considered for early status and did not. They instead chose to ignore the rules, banking on the assumption that we'd have a nominee going into the convention, and the nominee would ask the party to seat them. They took a gamble and lost.

That's not to say that the party should not find some way to give representation to the voters in those states, but counting the current results would be completely unfair, particularly in Michigan, where Obama was not even on the ballot. The only reason Clinton kept her name on the ballot is because Granholm, an early Clinton supporter, moved the primary up to benefit her.

[Demeter]

4. It's DLC Dirty Tricks

the plan was to fake out all the other candidates, let Hillary scoop both pots of delagates, and then stomp foot to get them seated in interests of "fairness" and "inclusion".

Especially two influential states like Florida and Michigan, both overstressed and unstable and unpredicatble. Couldn't have them actually making a choice.

[JVS]

10. They fucked up.

[backscatter712]

12. The only way I'd be willing to let FL and MI in...

is if they have another caucus/election, after all the other states have had theirs, with a fair chance for both Obama and Clinton to campaign.

That way, the voters get their say, and punishment for the states for violating DNC rules is to be kicked to the back of the line and have to spend money doing the election again.

Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan, so unless a proper fair election is held, no delegates for them.

[MichiganVote]

16. The voters in Michigan had their say. Obama and Edwards withdrew their names all on their own.

They were not required to. As a result the vote total of uncommitted stands at 45%. The vote total for Clinton is 55%.

[backscatter712]

18. C'mon.

Comparing the non-campaigned, non-delegated "elections" in Florida and Michigan to the hotly contested, high-stakes elections in the rest of the country is like comparing apples to hammers.

If you want Florida's and Michigan's voters to have a voice, they need new elections.

[MichiganVote]

21. Well let me enlighten you. Michigan will not hold another primary. It won't happen.

If, as some on the board suppose...that the primary results in Michigan don't count or won't count...what's the worry?

Afterall, the Dem. primary voters doubled over the vote tallies of 2004. Its only a little problem called the General Election and the fact that the Dem. party says to the voters of Michigan that their votes don't count that matters anyway.

What's the problem? Democrats will have to choose their poison. Either you allow at least a 50% percentage of the delegate count to matter re: the nomination or risk losing Michigan in the GE.

As I live here....I'd say you better swallow the pride and hoopla and take the smaller percentage for the primary nomination. Knowing Michigan voters as I do...and I do...Michigan is very risky for Dem's in the GE.

And may I say...the clusterfuck in Nevada was hardly an example of a pristine caucus.

[BearSquirrel2]

13. Proof by example ...

And, I'm sure the Johnsons are kicking themselves for scheduling their picnic on the Rainy July 7th instead of the July 6th.

How could they know and should they really care at this point. I think there broader point is that they have the right to set their primary on a certain date when the only people standing in their way or the Iowans and New Hampshireites. I expect Howard Dean to make a push at the convention for changing the rules so that everybody gets a crack at being "early" in the schedule.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. It's ironic because if there is a re-vote they will be more significant

than they would have been otherwise.

Ain't life funny?

[MichiganVote]

17. There will not be a 'do over' in Michigan.

[Pathwalker]

23. They won't listen to you. I tried to tell them that, but they

think they can just bully the Republicans in this state into letting it happen - it's as if they think the Republican machine in this state doesn't exist, doesn't fight hard, and doesn't fight dirty. All they have to do is click their heels, say pretty please!, and poof! The Republicans will just roll over and give up taxpayer money for their "cause". :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Remember the budget fight here?

[MichiganVote]

24. Yeah..LOL...I just say to aggravate them now. They think all politics, esp. in Michigan, will go

the way they think they can dictate it to be. The DNC has a rude awakening coming. They've ignored Michigan for so long they think that the Repub's will just roll over. Granholm stated on one of the local channel 8 newsbroadcasts that the party just wanted a way out of the mess they've created. Got all high and mighty and think only Michigan will pay.

The budget fight was something else. Hopefully it will go better this year. Seems headed in the right direction anyway. Guess they all finally got the message from Michigan voters---shut up and fix it---NOW!

Anyway, should be interesting. Hey we did double our primary voters tho' and that's a good thing.

[rpannier]

19. That would probably take us to the phrase

"Look who's laughing now."

as Michigan and Florida would then be in the position to possibly decide the winner.

I'd take this scenario over the super delegate scenario any day of the week.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Agreed. nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. ohhh the irony! .....I'm sorry but I have to laugh