Why did Obama support Lieberman over Lamont?

[candice]

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2007/street0207.html

Obama "chose the neoconservative Lieberman to be his “assigned” mentor in the U.S. Senate"

...and "he lent his politically influential and financially rewarding assistance to neoconservative pro-war Senator Joe Lieberman’s (“D”-CT) struggle against the Democratic antiwar insurgent Ned Lamont."

" Obama has supported other “mainstream Democrats” fighting antiwar progressives in primary races (see Alexander Cockburn, “Obama’s Game,” the Nation, April 24, 2006).

According to this article, he also criticized efforts to enact filibuster proceedings against reactionary Supreme Court Justice Alito and
“he posted a long article on the liberal blog Daily Kos criticizing attacks against lawmakers who voted for right-wing Supreme Court nominee John Roberts.

[AX10]

1. Obama is no savior.

He is all about the show, not about doing. The only thing he willing to do is play nice with the right wing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. he will do to the dem party what * has done to the gop...that's my $0.02

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. the only thing Obama ran was a students college law journal...is that enough to run the country?

[Kittycat]

25. And he was a community organizer. What exactly has HRC run?

Last time I looked, he's had more experience as an elected official than she has.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. Here. Enlighten yourself.....she wasn't sitting around playing Tiddly Winks:

Marriage and family, law career and First Lady of Arkansas

A key decision

During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for Edelman's newly founded Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts,<53> and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children.<54> During 1974 she was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.<55><56> Under the guidance of Chief Counsel John Doar and senior member Bernard Nussbaum,<35> Rodham helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment.<56> The committee's work culminated in the resignation of President Richard Nixon in August 1974.<56>

Early Arkansas years

The couple bought a house in Fayetteville in the summer of 1975, and she finally agreed to marry him.<64> Hillary Rodham and Bill Clinton were married on October 11, 1975, in a Methodist ceremony in their living room.<65> She kept her name as Hillary Rodham, later writing that she had done so to keep their professional lives separate and avoid seeming conflicts of interest, although it upset both their mothers.<66> Bill Clinton had lost the Congressional race in 1974, but in November 1976 was elected Arkansas Attorney General. This required the couple to move to the state capital of Little Rock.<67> Rodham joined the venerable Rose Law Firm, a bastion of Arkansan political and economic influence,<68> in February 1977,<69> specializing in patent infringement and intellectual property law,<33> while also working pro bono in child advocacy;<70> she rarely performed litigation work in court.<71>

Rodham maintained her interest in children's law and family policy, publishing the scholarly articles "Children's Policies: Abandonment and Neglect" in 1977<72> and "Children's Rights: A Legal Perspective" in 1979.<73> The latter continued her argument that legal competence of children depended upon their age and other circumstances, and that in cases of serious medical rights judicial intervention is sometimes warranted.<51> An American Bar Association chair later said, "Her articles were important, not because they were radically new but because they helped formulate something that had been inchoate."<51> Historian Garry Wills would later term her "one of the more important scholar-activists of the last two decades",<74> while conservatives said her theories would usurp traditional parental authority,<75> allow children to file frivolous lawsuits against their parents,<51> and considered her work part of legal "crit" theory run amok.<76>

Rodham co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977.<33><77> In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom Rodham had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana)<78> appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation,<79> and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981.<80> For much of that time<81> she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so.<82> During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million,<70> and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.<70>

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Rodham became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years (1979–1981, 1983–1992). Clinton appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year,<83> where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.<84>

In 1979,<85> she became the first woman to be made a full partner of Rose Law Firm.<86> From 1978 until they entered the White House, she had a higher salary than her husband.<69> During 1978 and 1979, while looking to supplement their income, Rodham made a spectacular profit from trading cattle futures contracts;<87> her initial $1,000 investment generated nearly $100,000 when she stopped trading after ten months.<88> The couple also began their ill-fated investment in the Whitewater Development Corporation real estate venture with Jim and Susan McDougal at this time.<87>

On February 27, 1980, Rodham gave birth to a daughter, Chelsea, her only child. In November 1980, Bill Clinton was defeated in his bid for re-election.



Bill Clinton returned to the Governor's office two years later by winning the election of 1982. During her husband's campaign, Rodham began to use the name Hillary Clinton, or sometimes "Mrs. Bill Clinton", in order to have greater appeal to Arkansas voters;<89> she also took a leave of absence from Rose Law in order to campaign for him full-time.<90> As First Lady of Arkansas, Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992,<91> where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system.<92><93> One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship,<92> she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association<92> to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place.<92> She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.<94> She was named Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983 and Arkansas Mother of the Year in 1984.<95>

<snip>
From 1987 to 1991 she chaired the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession,<98> which addressed gender bias in the law profession and induced the association to adopt measures to combat it.<98> She was twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America<snip>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

[Kittycat]

42. Again, what did she RUN.

Being a partner isn't RUNNING a business, it's being one of many partners in a law firm. Co-Founding NFPs that she sat on the sidelines of, and raising money - isn't RUNNING anything. And being an influential lawyer, again - isn't running anything.

If you refuse to recognize that Obama has more Elected experience, and also did like (if not more hands on) work for NFPs and community organizations - then why should I recognize her work?

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Oh for crying out loud. You are fucking RIDICULOUS. Hillary is 100 times

more accomplished than Obama man will ever be. So he was a community organizer! BIG FUCKING DEAL.

[Cha]

49. No, you're fucking

ridiculous with that peace bird flapping under the warmongering, lying, hilary clinton.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. and your warmongering guy who has voted time and agin to FUND the damn war.

after he said he would never do that. He's a liar.

[Kahuna]

61. To fund the troops that Hillary helped to put there. There's a difference. nt

[Kittycat]

52. No, she's 100 times more dirty

If we want to be truthful about it all. From the blood on her hands, to the sealed tax returns, to her husband's sealed donor list. She's nothing but a DLC Shill in it to win it, for herself, while throwing crumbs to the rest of us. Anything she does manage to accomplish, will be easily undone when she's out of office - should she get elected. And if she does, she'll only last 4 years, and deep down you know that. She's not an agent of change, she's establishment and more of the same.

And yes, he was a community organizer that did more for the south side, than she did in her less than 1 year at the children's defense fund. Oh, and he has respect for women, I should note... Unlike her husband who will likely just be running through the halls again, chasing interns bringing us more scandals. YAY, just what we need - more of the same.

ETA: You can't lead, if you can't inspire ;)

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. Ah....you hate Hillary because she CHOSE to stay married to Bill. Their sex life is none of your

fucking business. Mind your own bedroom and keep your nose out of other people's lives.

We'll see who's more DIRTY after the MSM breaks the Rezko story in the GE...IF your guy should win.

[Kittycat]

57. No, but their embarrassment only degrades the office.

They're dirty all on their own. Need I bring up her donors, bill's, and pardons? Or maybe her earmarks? Or the Iraq War? Or Clusterbombs? Or Iran? Or Bankruptcy bills? The list is long, that's on the bottom - but it is a constant reminder of how his inability to keep it in his pants while in office, cost our party quite a bit.

[CatnHat]

70. You Got that Right

"Rezko" will soon be a household word. . . if by chance BHO should win the nomination. Do you actually think that "story" was put to rest.:rofl: Not by a longshot.

[earthlover]

40. Well, the last time Hillary was president of anything was of the YOUNG REPUBLICANS!

I'll go with Obama

[MagickMuffin]

45. In ALL fairness, SHE left the Repthuglicon Party during the RNC convention in '68

She served as president of the Rockefeller Republican-oriented Wellesley Young Republicans organization during her freshman year and with them supported the elections of John Lindsay and Edward Brooke.

However, due to her evolving views regarding the American Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War, she stepped down from that position; she characterized her own nature as that of "a mind conservative and a heart liberal."

Active in campus affairs, she sought to work for change within the system, rather than take then-popular radical actions against it.

In her junior year, Rodham was affected by the death of Martin Luther King, Jr., and became a supporter of the anti-war presidential nomination campaign of Democrat Eugene McCarthy.

Rodham organized a two-day student strike and worked with Wellesley's black students for moderate changes, such as recruiting more black students and faculty.

In early 1968 she was elected president of the Wellesley College Government Association and served through early 1969; she was instrumental in keeping Wellesley from being embroiled by the student disruptions common to other colleges at the time.

A number of her fellow students thought at the time she might someday become the first woman President of the United States.
She attended the "Wellesley in Washington" summer program at the urging of Professor Alan Schechter, who assigned Rodham to intern at the House Republican Conference so she could better understand her changing political views.

Rodham was invited by Representative Charles Goodell, a moderate New York Republican, to help Governor Nelson Rockefeller’s late-entry campaign for the Republican nomination.

Rodham attended the 1968 Republican National Convention in Miami, where she decided to leave the Republican Party for good; she was upset over how Richard Nixon's campaign had portrayed Rockefeller and what Rodham perceived as the "veiled" racist messages of the convention.

Let me repeat this again:

Rodham attended the 1968 Republican National Convention in Miami, where she decided to leave the Republican Party for good; she was upset over how Richard Nixon's campaign had portrayed Rockefeller and what Rodham perceived as the "veiled" racist messages of the convention.



Disclosure: I haven't decided who gets my vote, but I will not sit by and let this nonsense continue without ALL the facts presented.

I didn't know we were as good as the Rethuglicons in Cherry Picking our talking points, instead of dealing with the FACTS...

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. PLEASE! No fairness and facts for Obama supporters!

Their heads will explode.

[MagickMuffin]

56. Well the info is for anyone who craves knowing the truth

I'd do the same for Obama, if he was being smeared by someone here.

It's really sad that we as Democrats choose to behave in a childish manner, instead of engaging in political discourse.

Oh well, whatcha gonna do, except try and raise the level of discourse whenever I can.

[earthlover]

62. She triangulated herself even then....

"she characterized her own nature as that of "a mind conservative and a heart liberal."

Gees...

[MagickMuffin]

64. "a mind of conservative and a heart of a liberal"

There seems to be a lot of people with those views.

Would you have preferred her to remain in the party of bigotry?

How do you view Sen. Jim Webb?

He was a rethuiglicon before he switched to OUR TEAM.

Hillary even got her chance to get back at the bigots who helped drive her from their party, when she had the opportunity to work on the Nixon Impeachment hearings.

GEES.............

[earthlover]

72. She was trying to have it both ways....

a pattern for her.

I would prefer it if she did not have a mind of a conservative.

I have not seen much of her heart either, only her policy-wonk side.

[babylonsister]

65. You are hateful, and it shows. You don't really believe that, I'm sure.

If you do, I gave you a lot more credit than you deserve.

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. DITTO that... n/t

[babylonsister]

2. Read this, and google is your pal:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/27/ap/politics/mainD8L0MB280.shtml

[jkshaw]

26. Thanks sister, read it --

One paragraph (from CBS news report) of Obama endorsement of Ned Lamont --

"Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass-roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election," Obama wrote. "Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign."

[BearSquirrel2]

37. Another perfectly good argument ...

Another otherwise perfectly good argument is ruined by incorrect facts.

[Cant trust em]

66. Thank you.

So I read about 20 posts about Clinton vs. Obama before I could get to this. I'm pretty sure that the OP was talking about Lamont.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

3. Obama doesn't stand for anything. Entire record is backtracking, wrong buttons, excuses

[MercutioATC]

14. As opposed to HRC...

:eyes:

[earthlover]

63. And WHAT does Hillary stand for? Besides herself? Besides a finger in the wind?

Name ONE position she has made on principle, which was unpopular and would stand to cause her harm politically at the time?

I will not hold my breath.

Obama, at least, spoke out against the iraq war when it was popular and very risky to oppose.

[Politicub]

4. Because he trades in the currency of hope

and invests his funds in the stock of dreams.

[whistle]

18. Is that an Obama-ism?

..."trades in the currency of hope and invests funds in the stock of dreams"

Was that the way Obama got $2.1 million from Rezko Inc.?

[Politicub]

28. I don't think so - maybe I should copyright it...

It does sound like something from the Obama camp, doesn't it? :)

[QC]

31. It's lovely! n/t

[cali]

5. that's a foul lie New Senators are assigned mentors, and Obama

was assigned to Lieberman. And like every other dem Senator including Clinton, he supported Lieberman in the primary, and Lamont after. And perhaps you're unaware of the FACT that Lamont endorsed Obama- not Hilly.

[sniffa]

16. Just recycled spam

Not even worth reading.

[theHandpuppet]

20. Never tire of posting your usual, I see

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! The great and wonderful Wizard of Obama has spoken!

[sniffa]

33. Yes, I don't

We shouldn't be distracted. I don't mind however, if you are. :thumbsup:

[earthlover]

41. YUP...the Hillary Herd is not known for listening to posts that hit the nail on the head....

...they just go down the field and poop as they go....

[ORDem]

32. kick - thanks for getting the facts out n/t

[shireen]

44. thanks, Cali

i'm voting tomorrow, and DU has been a confusing and frustrating place to gather legitimate information about the candidates. I've never seen so much political pollution in one place.

I guess these people don't realize the harm they're doing by slinging the BS around ... they think they're manipulating people into voting for their candidates with misleading statements that many of us have no time to verify. But all they're doing is creating confusion.

I don't even know if it's worth going to the polls tomorrow.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Obama endorsed Lamont.

You forgot to include that helpful bit of information.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. Exactly!

[MonkeyFunk]

7. It's almost unheard of

to support an opponent of an incumbent in a primary race.

Obama supported Lamont in the general election.

[Exultant Democracy]

8. He supported Lamont during the GE and Lamont supports him now.

[jackson_dem]

9. He did it for the very reasons Obamites are tarring and feathering Edwards today...

Their saint is guilty of exactly what they are crying about Edwards allegedly doing...

[Drunken Irishman]

13. Jackson, c'mon, why do you post such trash now?

You used to be a pretty sane poster and now your utter contempt for Obama is making your posts sound so bitter. You clump every Obama supporter together, even though you have no evidence to suggest that a vast majority of us on this board dislike or attack Edwards. C'mon, you're better than this crap. Don't stoop the level of the Obama supporters you're attacking for that very reason.

I've realized the past month that both sides have idiotic supporters, but I also understand Clinton and Obama both have reasonable, respectful and intelligent supporters as well. It's just a shame your hatred for Obama blinds you from seeing this.

[jackson_dem]

34. When I say "Obamites" I am referring to the bad apples

[rug]

10. Because Joe is so chipper and hopeful.

[Avalux]

11. This is a garbage misinformation post. Move along.....

before believing any of this, google. Lamont endorsed Obama.

[theHandpuppet]

17. Gee, what a good question. AND GUESS WHO HILLARY SUPPORTED?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/26/nyregion/26lieberman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Mrs. Clinton Offers to Raise Money for Lamont Campaign
By JENNIFER MEDINA
Published: August 26, 2006

NEW HAVEN, Aug. 25 — In a private meeting at her Chappaqua, N.Y., home on Friday, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton offered to help Ned Lamont in his battle to unseat Senator Joseph I. Lieberman by sponsoring a fund-raiser, campaigning by his side and lending him one of her top political strategists.

That strategist, Howard Wolfson, said Mrs. Clinton wanted to throw her considerable political weight behind Mr. Lamont because the national Republican Party “is clearly invested in Ned Lamont’s defeat.”

“I think they are going to do what they can to see him defeated,” Mr. Wolfson said, adding that he was particularly concerned with “Bush-Cheney talking points.”

“They are going to attack him in the way Republicans do,” he said, “and he obviously needs to be and is going to be prepared.”

[NYCGirl]

21. And guess who Lamont endorsed?

Why I'm Supporting Barack Obama

Ned Lamont, January 10, 2008

When I decided to run for Senate, I did so because I deeply believed that the citizens of Connecticut were yearning to see fundamental changes in our politics – changes that would make government work for them again.

Today, with our Presidential primary in Connecticut less than a month away, I am announcing my support of Barack Obama for President because I am convinced that his forward-looking, progressive vision provides the best chance to enact meaningful reforms in the way Washington works.

Sen. Obama has the tone and temperament to bring out the best in our people and our nation, and to bring new coalitions together in support of the progressive policies we all want to see enacted. His campaign has already reflected this, not only by bringing hundreds of thousands of new voters of all ages to the polls, but by inspiring so many who are new to politics to become activists as well.

Making healthcare affordable for all Americans, rebuilding our aging infrastructure, and ending our dependence on foreign oil are all problems that require more than a tax credit here or an earmark there. Barack is the candidate best able to enact these big changes necessary to getting our country moving again.

We have seen that Sen. Obama has the wisdom and judgment to get the big decisions right – as he did on Iraq more than five years ago. And when President Obama steps out of Air Force One in countries around the world, he will represent a fresh start with friends and allies. He will end the war in Iraq, work for a comprehensive peace in the Middle East, and start investing in America again – and we will be safer and stronger for it.

We Democrats are fortunate to have had many strong candidates running for President. As you may know, I was proud to work hard for Chris Dodd during his campaign. I have the deepest respect and admiration for Sen. Dodd – especially for his powerful calls to defend our constitutional freedoms by restoring habeas corpus, closing Guantanamo, and living up to the spirit of the Geneva Conventions. I know that Sen. Obama, a former professor of Constitutional Law, has been and will continue to be Chris’ ally in fighting to protect our Constitution.

As Barack often says on the campaign trail these days, “with the challenges we face at this moment, the real gamble in this election is playing the same Washington game with the same Washington players and expecting a different result.”

It’s time to change the game.

http://nedlamont.com/news/2256/why-im-supporting-barack-obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FChJLsJeLjc

[theHandpuppet]

27. Still doesn't change the fact that Hillary supported Lamont, does it.

And doesn't change the fact that Obama chose Lieberman as his mentor. I thought his decisions were above reproach!

[NYCGirl]

29. Really? She supported Lieberman in the primary, as all the elected Democrats

did.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/07/05/clinton_will_support_connecticut_primary_winner.html

According to the Washington Post, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) said yesterday that while she is backing Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) in Connecticut's Democratic primary for the Senate, she would support the winner of the primary in the general election, even if Lieberman lost and ran as an independent.

Said Clinton: "I've known Joe Lieberman for more than thirty years. I have been pleased to support him in his campaign for re-election, and hope that he is our party's nominee. But I want to be clear that I will support the nominee chosen by Connecticut Democrats in their primary. I believe in the Democratic party; and I believe we must honor the decisions made by Democratic primary voters. The challenges before us in 2006 call for a strong, united party, in which we all support and work for the candidates who are selected in the Democratic process."

Sens. Harry Reid (D-NV) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY) have also backed Lieberman in the primary, but have so far refused to say if they would endorse him as an independent in the general election.


And, BTW, freshmen Senators have their "mentors" CHOSEN FOR THEM.

[theHandpuppet]

50. And when Lamont won the primary, she kept her word, didn't she

Let me repeat,

NEW HAVEN, Aug. 25 — In a private meeting at her Chappaqua, N.Y., home on Friday, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton offered to help Ned Lamont in his battle to unseat Senator Joseph I. Lieberman by sponsoring a fund-raiser, campaigning by his side and lending him one of her top political strategists.

She also contributed $5,000 from her political action committee to his campaign. I guess this is how Lamont showed his gratitude for her support.

[Mass]

53. So did Obama. He supported Lamont during the GE.

[earthlover]

43. as pointed out above, mentors are not chosen by the mentees....

typical hillary herd follower....

[Bodhi BloodWave]

59. Do you recall when Bill Clinton made the

"Either way democrats win" comment in regards to the Lieberman-Lamont race? Was it the primary or during the general, for some reason i keep recalling it being in the general.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Both candidates supported Lieberman in the primary

and Lamont in the general. This thread is stupid.

[debbierlus]

35. Interesting

[Tweed]

19. Why did Lamont endorse Obama...

even after this?

[cooolandrew]

22. Barack is genuinely close to the Clintons prior to the race, the Clintons endorsed him too.

[cooolandrew]

23. Barack is genuinely close to the Clintons prior to the race, the Clintons endorsed him too.

[debbierlus]

30. Gross. It is because he isn't the second coming.

And, thank you, thank you, thank you for mentioning the Alito vote - people here sure didn't think too highly of him THEN.

[pdxmom]

38. Instead of "according to this article" why don't you read the diary on

Kos about Roberts. Maybe you'd understand how much spin and half-truth this article contains.

Here, I'll help you: http://obama.senate.gov/blog/050930-tone_truth_and_the_democratic_party/

[Mass]

51. So did Clinton, Dodd, and Boxer. It was during the primary. During the GE, he supported Lamont.

[New Dawn]

58. Why did Clinton support Lieberman? Why did Gore have him as his VP candidate?

Those were all bad very decisions too.

[Elspeth]

60. Because both Obama and Clinton stand for the same set of vested interests

There really is no difference between them philosophically.

[Lilith Velkor]

67. A sane voice in the wilderness

:thumbsup:

[Elspeth]

68. Right back atcha.

It's like arguing "Tastes Great", "Less Filling". It's the same goddamned bad brew.

[noamnety]

69. He supported Lieberman over Lamont in the primaries because

he's the candidate of change, not of the establishment.

oh, wait ...

Because he supports more progressive candidates over ones that have reached so far over the aisle all that remains on our side is their footprints.

hmmm, that's not it.

Because he wanted to hop into bed with the establishment and be part of the old boys' club?

I think that's it.

I'm pretty amused to see people claiming it's "misinformation" because AFTER the primaries he opted (eventually) to support the democratic nominee, like that's some big thing we should pat him on the back for, like it erases him trying to get Lamont out of the race earlier.

DURING the primary, he chose to campaign for the most rightwing warmongering democrat we have, when he had the option to campaign instead on behalf of an anti-war progressive candidate (or at least remain silent).

Now if an Obama supporter (or anyone else) could explain the reason for that, I'd be interested to hear it. Not the reason he supported the democratic nominee in the end, but the reason that when they were in the primaries, he wanted the prowar candidate to win.

[femmedem]

73. From here in CT

I'd say you called that right. His support after the primary was tepid as well. Some of us remember that he didn't come here to stump for Lamont, despite many of our requests. The Lamont campaign had hinted that they had a VERY BIG surprise speaker who was going to show up on the very day Obama would have been traveling through CT in order to get to a speaking engagement at Brown University in RI. My guess is that if Lamont had been up in the polls, Obama would have shown up.

But in all fairness, Senator Clinton was no better.

Edited for lousy sentence structure and long-windedness.

[eridani]

71. Same reason that Clinton did

They are both pro-empire, despite being against how the Iraq occupation is being handled.