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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:56 PM
Original message
Dem superdelegates could give birth to a viable third party...
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 07:56 PM by polichick
This thread might be considered against the rules, but I'm dying to know if others are thinking what I've been thinking today.

If the voters and pledged delegates go for one candidate and the superdelegates override them, it might be the last straw for a huge number of Democrats. imo Obama could win as an indie or new progressive party candidate.

Just something I hope superdelegates are thinking about.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's possible -- Kennedy's looked pregnant for years.
ba dum bum
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. :oþ
:oþ

Ya big turkey!
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. The American people...
have been accepting dog crap for years, I really don't think they will stop now. Bet ya Pelosi gets re-elected...
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. The American people...
have been accepting dog crap for years, I really don't think they will stop now. Bet ya Pelosi gets re-elected...
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Too true...
But it would definitely be the last straw for this 30-year activist. Now that we're able to organize via the internet, the party needs to be more responsive to the people.
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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. it will be responsive
to what it thinks can win....that's the purpose of political parties.
a 3rd party would be at least as successful as naders run in 2000....man that really worked out....because there wasn't any difference between gore and bush...or so the pure of heart told us....i'll bet a lot of them wish they had that vote back
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Obama could win as an indie/third party candidate...
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 08:16 PM by polichick
He's drawing Dems, indies and "Obamacans" as it is.
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I agree. The party would implode in it's brightest hour.
Go Obama.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. "implode in it's brightest hour"
GREAT way to put it!
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. New Progressive Party as in this concept?
The New Party is an umbrella organization for grassroots political groups working to break the stranglehold that corporate money and corporate media have over our political process.

Our current work and long-term strategy is to change states' election rules to allow fusion voting - a method of voting that allows minor parties to have their own ballot line with which they can either endorse their own candidates or endorse the candidates of other parties.

Through fusion, minor parties don't have to always compete in the winner-take-all two party system and can avoid "spoiling" - throwing an election to the most conservative candidate by splitting the votes that might go to two more progressive candidates (ours and another party's).

For more information on fusion click here or here. We hope you will join us in re-establishing fusion as a tool for Americans to take back the political process.

<link> http://www.newparty.org/
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I like it!
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 08:13 PM by polichick
Thanks for the info and link ~ I really do think a new day is dawning in the U.S. and the Democratic party needs to GET THAT!

(I know, that's a Reagan expression ~ make that "another, much better" new day.)
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. That's the danger of progressive-ism, that slow absorbtion of so many
...different political ideas and concepts and slogans creating an inferior political crock-pot stew of confusion and inaction for the masses to wallow in while the ruling elite and political establishment go right on feasting on the caviar, filet mignon and Crème brûlées
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The U.S. trajectory has always been toward "progressive" or more democratic ideas...
Of course groups will look for ways around those parties who sit in the way like giant boulders in the road ~ the ultimate success of "progressive-ism" (if that's what you want to call it) is inevitable if the nation is to continue.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. As in what this writer outlined....
<snip>
Towards an Independent Progressive Party
By Ron Daniels



November 16-19, 1995 Campaign for a New Tomorrow will hold the Founding Convention for the Independent Progressive Party in Philadelphia, taking a decisive step to solidify the building of a independent party. Coming off the disappointment of the demobilization of the Rainbow Coalition after the 1988 Jackson campaign I pledged to work with progressive activists to build a mass based, democratic, Black and people of color led independent organization/party as an outgrowth of the 1992 Daniels for President Campaign.

The immediate outcome of that pledge was the creation of Campaign for a New Tomorrow, a Black and people of color led pre-party formation. Over the past three years this modest initiative has worked to establish chapters in New York city, Washington DC, and Pittsburgh. With meager resources, the organizational development process has been uneven but some impressive work has been done in all three cities. Pittsburgh has emerged as the strongest and most consistent chapter in terms of ongoing political work. In the last six months groups of people in Albany New York, Trenton and Camden New Jersey, Philadelphia, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, Atlanta and Cleveland Ohio have shown an interest in developing local organizing committees.

The rise to hegemony of the radical right with the racist Gingrich-Dole Contract on America demands the creation of a visionary alternative to the Republicans and the Democrats. The look-alike proposals offered by the Democrats make it quite clear that the two establishment parties represent the far right and the center right. The liberal-left-progressive forces are largely irrelevant in this political equation. In reality no "major" political party currently represents the interests of people of color, women, lesbian and gays, and poor and working people.

In the midst of this crisis the challenge is to build political parties which can articulate the vision of a new tomorrow and mobilize constituencies to act on that vision. There a are range of independent political parties in various stages of formation -- the Green Party, New Party, Labor Party Advocates, and various state and local parties like the Peace and Freedom Party in California and the Umoja Party in Washington, DC. Why then another independent political party?

It is my contention that Africans in America and other people of color -- Native Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans and other minorities of color -- must constitute the foundation of any new political party movement which aspires to successfully contend for power in the U.S. Given the history of racism, ethnic and cultural chauvinism, and paternalism in this country, there is an understandable reluctance by people of color to enter into coalitions or parties controlled by Whites. People of color often fear, with some justification, that their interests and issues may be downplayed or sacrificed in the quest to build broader "working class unity." It is probably for this reason that polling data indicate that more than 60 percent of African Americans prefer a "Black led" independent political party.

I also believe that there is an urgent need to build a broad based multi-racial coalition to advance the politics of social transformation and the fight for a new society. We really must struggle to "unite the many to defeat the few." It is not possible for people of color to carry the struggle for social transformation without the substantial participation of progressive Whites and White poor and working people. This is why the Rainbow Coalition, under the leadership of Rev. Jesse Jackson, was so significant. It is precisely because the Rainbow Coalition grew out of the Civil Rights Movement and reached out to other people of color, White progressives, and White poor and working people that it had such great promise.

In some respects the CNT/IPP initiative is an attempt to build a Rainbow-type formation with an explicit understanding of the principles that many people of color feel are required to guide the evolution and development of a multi-racial political party. A multi-racial party must be forged around principles and processes which ensure the centrality of the interests, issues and agendas of people of color within the party. One issue that is central to the fight for social transformation is the struggle against racism. Historically racism has been used to confuse, divide, and exploit poor and working people. Currently, racism is the critical subtext driving the Contract on America and the agenda of the radical right.

Finally, people of color must be substantially but not exclusively in the leadership of the party. The Gary Declaration from the historic 1972 National Black Political Convention put it this way: "Black politics...must accept major responsibility for creating both the atmosphere and program for fundamental, far ranging change in America. Such responsibility is ours because it is our people who are most deeply hurt and ravished by the present systems of society." The most oppressed sectors of the working class must take the lead. As a Black and people of color led multi-racial formation, the Independent Progressive Party will continue to seek operational unity with other independent political parties and independent political movements. Hence, IPP will be actively involved in continuations/follow-up to the highly successful National Independent Politics Summit which was recently held in Pittsburgh (the Green Party was present along with CNT, but the New Party and Labor Party Advocates were noticeable absent). Hopefully, in the near future the various independent, third party initiatives will be able to come together to form one formidable political party. A goal of IPP is to make certain that when that day arrives there will be a strong Black and people of color led multi-racial party at the table to negotiate the union from a position of strength.

The Founding Convention of IPP is being timed to coincide with the 15th anniversary of the Founding Convention of the National Black Independent Political Party (NBIPP) held in Philadelphia in 1980. The goals of the Founding Convention are as follows: Refine and adapt the Statement of Purpose and Principles of Unity of CNT to the mission of IPP; Ratify the declaration of the party, adopt a structure of governance and elect party officers; Assess the current political situation and adopt a minimum program for this period. From an organizational development perspective the goal of the Founding Convention is to consolidate the work begun by CNT in the northeast region of the country and to stimulate the formation of Local Organizing Committees throughout the country.

The Convention will begin on Thursday evening November 16 with a Town Hall Forum on The Rise of the Radical Right: Challenges Confronting the Progressive Movement. Friday’s schedule will include an open hearing on the proposed Statement of Purpose, Principles of Unity and Structure of IPP, a plenary session on The Lessons of the NBIPP Experience and a plenary session entitled, Along the Color Line: The Centrality of the Struggle Against Racism. Saturday’s schedule will include: organizational development workshops, issue workshops, a business session to ratify party documents and elect officers and an evening cultural-political event. The Founding Convention will conclude on Sunday. Manning Marable, Julienne Malveaux, Michael Albert, Delores Huerta, Winona LaDuke, Adjoa Aiyetoro, Sonia Sanchez, Joan Watson, Michael Ratner, Richie Perez, Marta Vega, Joann Watson, Ann Wilson, Kevin Alexander Gray, Gwen Patton and Michael Simmons are among those who are being invited to participate in the Founding Conference in addition to leaders of the NBIPP movement and leaders of CNT.

Ralph Featherstone, a militant organizer for SNCC once said, "to be revolutionary is to know what time it is in history and do something about that." It is clear that the time to build a Black and people of color led, multi-racial political party is here. With the declaration and organization of the Independent Progressive Party, we intend to "do something about that." All progressives of good will are invited and encouraged to join in this historic endeavor.

For further information about the convention call 410-521-9265.

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/oct95daniel.htm

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I have to give your example groups credit for trying...
Personally, I think it will take a break out candidate (an Obama-like phenom) to pull it off ~ but it's inevitable.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Also here is a short history of the Progressive movement in the U.S.
...although I'm sure you have more modern ideas and concepts which could give such a movement legs and firmer footing then what is may have had over a half a century ago. I agree that we do need a stronger and broader voice for the common American. My only recolection of such a voice was that of FDR and if JFK had lived to serve out his potential he and his brother Robert Kennedy could very well have been other such champions who might have made a big difference for America and the world.

Here is that summary:

<snip>
Politics and Public Service
Progressive Party
1912-1952


The Progressive Party was a factor in the presidential campaigns of three men — Theodore Roosevelt, Robert La Follette, and Henry Wallace. There were a few Progressive Party organizations spanning this period of time but after the 1952 elections, they disappeared entirely.

Its first incarnation came in 1912, when Theodore Roosevelt led progressive elements out of the Republican Party. Roosevelt had made no secret of his low opinion of President William H. Taft and felt he could not support the ticket. Taft had particularly angered Roosevelt, an ardent conservationist, by removing Gifford Pinchot as chief forester.


Roosevelt struck out on his own and formed the first Progressive Party, saying he was as fit as a bull moose, from which came the colloquial name "Bull Moose Party." His platform called for tariff reform, stricter regulation of industrial combinations, women’s suffrage, prohibition of child labor, and other reforms.

The new party nominated Roosevelt for president and Hiram Johnson for vice president. Although the Progressives finished well ahead of Republicans in the election, they lost to the Democratic candidate, Woodrow Wilson. When Roosevelt returned to the Republican fold in 1916, the Progressive Party vanished for a time.

In 1924, liberals were so frustrated with conservative control of both major political parties that they formed the League of Progressive Political Action, better known as the Progressive Party. Robert La Follette of Wisconsin, a Republican, decided to run for president as an independent, but later accepted the nomination from the Progressive Party. Senator Burton K. Wheeler, a Democrat from Montana, was nominated for vice-president.

The party advocated government ownership of public utilities and such labor reforms as collective bargaining. It also supported farm-relief measures, lower taxes for persons with moderate incomes, and other such laws. Although La Follette received 17 percent of the popular vote, he only carried Wisconsin’s electoral vote.

In 1934, La Follette’s sons organized a progressive party in Wisconsin. Robert La Follette, Jr. was elected to the Senate but was beaten in 1946 by Joseph McCarthy.

Yet another progressive party was formed in 1948. Former New Deal Democrats had become dissatisfied with the policies of Harry Truman and wanted their own party. They nominated Henry A. Wallace for president and Glen H. Taylor for vice president. They advocated liberal policies that included rights for minorities, curbs on monopolies, and the repeal of the Taft-Hartley Act.

The party's platform should have appealed strongly to blacks, intellectuals, and labor union members, but the support given them by the Communist Party was used against them by both major parties. The progressives maintained their right to accept support from any group. This was high-principled but politically fatal. Wallace received only 2.4 percent of the popular vote and carried no state.

In 1950, the party opposed America's decision to fight in Korea. Wallace split with the party's leadership on the issue and resigned from the party. The Progressive Party disappeared after the 1952 election. Only time will tell if another progressive party will be formed.

<link> http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1755.html
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. this has proably happened in other countries already?
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Many states have "no sore loser laws"
I am not certain that he would be an eligible candidate in some states.
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think a third party is inevitable
And will come out not of an usurping of the nomination but an unwillingness by the Democrats and Republicans alike to end the war in Iraq and economic insanity of the Bush years.

Be it Clinton or McCain 2012 isn’t going to look all that different as neither will significantly deviate from Bush policies while we the American people really only care about Iraq and the economy.

The American people will then say enough,
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I'm amazed that the people haven't said enough already...
It's absurd that ANYONE would consider putting McCain in charge of Iraq and Iran!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. This would not be salubrious, but it could happen
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. If that happens, we are no longer the democratic (note the small "d") party.
Period.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, in my view if the superdelegates override the voters and pledged delegates...
This nomination won't be any more democratic than the 2000 and 2004 elections. Why hang around for more??
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. I agree. If the superdelegates decide over the will of the people, you may well see a progressive
third party start up. I, for one, would join up!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Donna Brazile would have plenty of company I think!
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. No it wouldn't
in a winner take all system, there won't be a third party.

If Obama ran an independent, McCain would win 50 states.
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. Indy Obama = President McCain
It's really that simple
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