How cocky, how rude: Hillary "mocked" Obama for his "high-flown rhetoric"

[ProSense]

Hillary hits Obama on transparency, style

By: Mike Allen
Feb 11, 2008 07:40 PM EST

Senator Hillary Rodham (D-N.Y.) mocked Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) tonight for his high-flown rhetoric, suggesting she would fight important fights when he would back down.

Clinton, speaking on WJLA Channel 7 in Washington and Politico.com, also promised there would be no new scandals involving her husband, former President Bill Clinton.

The senator was asked a question from a Politico.com reader in Santa Monica, Calif., who was seeking assurance that "no new business or personal scandal involving Bill Clinton" could erupt if she were in the White House and give fodder to Republicans.

"You know, I can assure this reader that that is not going to happen," she said. "You know, none of us can predict the future, no matter who we are and what we are running for, but I am very confident that that will not happen."

During the half-hour conversation, she said that when she hears Obama’s oratory about a more civil politics, she wonder what fights he would avoid.

“You never hear the specifics,” Clinton said. “It’s all this kind of abstract, general talk about how we all need to get along. I want to get along, and I have gotten along, in the Senate. I will work with Republicans to find common cause whenever I can. But I will also stand my ground because there are fights worth having.”

more

Hillary, the anti-hope, anti-civil discourse candidate!

[libertee]

1. what an assinine question not dignifying an answer!!

At least she isn't the candidate of sweeping generality cliches!

[Carolina]

35. oh really?

she famous for saying such crap as: the American people know where I stand (fill in the blank) because I've been working on this (fill in the blank) for 35 years... blah, blah, blah

She triangulates, equivocates and spins ad nauseum

She was for the war before she was against it

And what of the Patriot Act, habeus corpus, the bankruptcy bill...

She is so full of shit.

[Mojambo]

2. The problem is that she has fought for some things that aren't so good for America (or the world)

It's great to be a fighter, but fight for the good side.

[Skittles]

3. OMG!

She's playing politics. HOW DARE SHE!!!!

[JKaiser]

4. She is right! Go hillary!

[Straight Shooter]

5. That's Mike Allen's INTERPRETATION of her comments. I suggest you do some research on him. n/t

[ProSense]

11. “You never hear...specifics...It’s all...abstract, general talk about how we all need to get along."

Direct quote!

[Straight Shooter]

23. How is that mocking? And have you researched Mike Allen yet?

I suspect not.

By the way, it is all abstract. Barack is just reaching out and touching your hippocampus.

[UALRBSofL]

59. It's true, he isn't about substance

but merely style.

[stillcool]

76. Maybe you would have to look...

or listen?

Barack Obama gets specific on policy
By Toby Harnden in Bangor, Maine
Last Updated: 11:55pm GMT 10/02/2008

There was something different about Barack Obama's stump speech in Maine on the eve of last night's Democratic caucuses.

The inspirational rhetoric and talk of hope were there but he'd also taken a leaf out of Hillary Clinton's book by including a laundry list of policy proposals and a plug for his website to counter the oft-repeated charge that he's long on talk but short on specifics for action.

He talked of mortgage tax help for some home owners as he addressed a crowd of 5,700 crammed into a basketball arena in Bangor, Maine. Outside in the snow, another thousand more stood listening.
------------------------------

Mr Obama has never been short of policy stances. Last summer, when his candidacy appeared to be in the doldrums, he was criticised for being too long-winded and professorial when he engaged in esoteric discussions that sometimes took on the air of an academic seminar.
----------------------------------------------------
The Illinois senator was also explicit about the criticism, leveled repeatedly by Mrs Clinton, that he lacks detail.

"There's the argument that he gives a speech but he hasn't been specific in terms of how he's going to solve some of these problems," he said in Bangor.

"Anybody who wants to know anything about anything, go to our website barackobama.com.

"Because there is not a single one of these problems, whether its climate change or health care, where we have not specified exactly how we're going to get that done, where we have not figured out how we're going to pay for it without adding to our budget deficit.

"So that is just a ruse, that is just folks trying to bamboozle you. Don't believe that."
------------------------------------------------------
Several in the crowd said afterwards that Mr Obama had spoken in more detail than they'd expected.
----------------------------
"He's a model for the civilized world," Mr Edwards said. "I said to him: 'If you can inspire a cynic like me, you can inspire anyone'.

"The clips I'd seen on television were all very high level. But I heard a lot more detail, programme by programme, today. It's quite remarkable but apparently he's got it all funded."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/10/wuspols210.xml

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

[kikiek]

6. Good for her. She is right on. She has actual plans he has rhetoric. We have been down that path

many times before. Time to vote for the one who actually has plans so they will walk the walk not just talk the talk.

[FrenchieCat]

7. No, she doesn't have a plan. She didn't even have a plan B for her campaign!

[Carolina]

37. TOUCHE

she didn't have a plan because she just knew the goal was hers...

[Cha]

10. hilary had a plan to run for president

and she voted for bush's IWR..hilary wants to look tough on defense so she voted for the vile kyl lieman bill.

You say Obama has no plans but it only shows that you haven't look at his issues..you sound like you're repeating something you heard from hilary and she lies.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

[kikiek]

14. Obama has issues alright. The big one is he has no plans for anything.

[Cha]

21. Now you're just being fucking

obtuse so don't bother trying to converse in a serious discussion.

[kikiek]

25. Funny coming from you. Thanks for the laugh!

[TwilightGardener]

26. No plan for health insurance? No plan to pull 1 brigade a month out of Iraq?

No plan to set up a 10 billion dollar fund to assist those in foreclosure? No plan to encourage math/science teachers with targeted pay increases? No plan to begin direct talks with our enemies, to establish diplomatic relations? I must have hallucinated all this.

[kikiek]

30. Yeah you must have. He talks but no ideas on how to do it. Check out Hillary. She has them.

[TwilightGardener]

33. Well, I suppose you pull troops out of Iraq by...I dunno...pulling troops

out of Iraq. I suppose you implement your health care proposal by getting it through the twists and turns of Congress. Same with everything else--Hillary is not some magician. She has to go crawling to Congress too. WTF are you talking about--does she have "secret plans" that I don't know about?

[kikiek]

38. She is specific about what her plans are to accomplish what she promises. He doesn't.

Your response says a lot actually.

[TwilightGardener]

42. So is he, and I proved it above. You're repeating a meaningless assertion, with no facts

to refute mine. I'm off to find more capable people to argue with--you're not much of a challenge.

[kikiek]

43. Haha ok. Good luck!

[Cha]

55. Your sig line says a lot about hilary

and why she shouldn't have had a part in Bombing Iraq.

[kikiek]

88. Obama wasn't there to vote on it, but he sure wanted to keep it going. No difference. Move on.

[rodeodance]

51. yes he does-he has the "high-flown rhetoric"--matches the MT suit!

[Cha]

8. Like she supported bushit for 7 years..

is that the kinda "important fights" she'll continue fighting for..hilary full bullshit and jealous as she can be without turning green.

I'm sure Obama will take of business and hilary can go play with her mansanto seeds.

[Carolina]

45. exactly

what has she done in the past 7 years to fight Bush? Nada, zip, zilch

She only started speaking out when she decied to run for POTUS.

But look at IWR, Patriot Act, habeus corpus, Gitmo, bankruptcy bill

She is so full of shit:hurts:

[rodeodance]

53. another obamacricket--

[Carolina]

64. losers and bullies always resort to name

calling.

Can you refute what I said about HRC?

If she's such a champion of the people, such a fighter... than where has she been for the past 7 years on the issues I cited?

Take the war which she voted for the war and has continually supported. Only when it was clear to her that public opinion and her political aspirations were at odds did she change her tune... albeit slightly, by saying the war had been managed wrong rather than it was wrong in the first place because IRAQ was never a threat and certainly not an imminent threat.

She's gone along with Bush to get along and get ahead. She triangulates, equivocates and spins... crap

Oh, but now she's got her fight on -- or so she says -- because she wants (no, feels entitled) to be POTUS.

Spare me.

[rodeodance]

80. bad me--i played the Obamababy game of name calling.

[KittyWampus]

9. Clinton you HACK. Your website doesn't even mention Poverty, has NOTHING on Telecommunications

except keeping tv safe for kids, has only the vaguest of policy proposals when it comes to helping the Middle Class.

[hill08]

12. how does this article prove

that Hill an anti-hope, anti-civil discourse candidate? Explain please

[NastyRiffraff]

13. How is that "mocking?"

She DISAGREES with his style. Is she not allowed to criticize Obama? (Don't answer that, some of you....you'll only embarrass yourselves)

Actually, I agree with her wholeheartedy about Obama's speeches, and with her working for common cause when she said, and fight light a tiger when necessary.

[Cameron27]

16. No, Obama can tear into Bill's presidency

with impunity, but when Hillary disagrees with Obama's style, she's mocking and anti-hope.

[hayu_lol]

20. Simply amazing how so many people fall for the 'soaring rhetoric'...

that never gets beyond 'hope' and 'change.' Those two items are really specific aren't they?

Hillary, like Wes Clark, has explained in some detail some of her plans for the country and how those plans could be implemented.

Obama stays with 'hope' and 'change.' It just ain't enough.

[mtnsnake]

15. Wassa matter, ProSense? Can't take it when someone like Hillary fights back? OUCH!

Too bad Kerry didn't have the same kind of fortitude that Hillary has. We wouldn't be in this mess we're in right now. Yikes

[rodeodance]

47. Strong women put fear into many--they resort to tactics like lies/misrepresentation ect ect

[ProSense]

50. No, this is pretty lame and silly coming from Hillary! The first part of the title is sarcasm

based on guess what? LOL!

[MonkeyFunk]

17. WHAT?!

Candidates running for the same office criticizing one another?

What's the world coming to?!

[QC]

18. Has the daily thread limit gone into effect yet? n/t

[Tellurian]

52. no, not yet..but Prosense has a confirmed reservation in Rehab when the hammer falls..

[rodeodance]

56. do you know if theObama campaign has set aside funds for De-programming?

[Tellurian]

62. as far as I know, the damage from the Kool-Aid is ....permanent..

:hi:

[QC]

67. But Kool-Aid is just so darn tasty--and economical, too!

[TwilightGardener]

19. What stands has she taken in the Senate against Republicans? I'm not

talking voting record, I'm talking STANDS. Please list them for me.

[Straight Shooter]

29. She voted against condemning MoveOn for General Betray Us ad.

And Obama, he just scoffed and talk his pretty talk. But you know what? MoveOn endorsed Obama, so guess what ad the right wing is going to pull out from under its dusty covers and link to Obama?

Side by side, Obama and "General Betray Us." Count. on. it.

Obama never bothered to even vote. But Hillary stood up against the crap being flown around and cited that the First Amendment gave MoveOn the right to publish the ad. She stood up for that ugly little piece of political hackery. Obama didn't even bother to vote. That's going to go over real well with Republicans when they're reminded of it.

[TwilightGardener]

31. Are you shitting me? Seven years in the Senate, and we're talking

about a ridiculous resolution on an ad? THAT'S her "profile in courage"? Please tell me there's more.
edit to add: Did she even make a floor speech about it?

[Straight Shooter]

40. You clearly have no idea of the mindset of most Americans towards the military and its commanders.

I'm telling you what's coming down the pike and you make fun of her standing up for the First Amendment. That was no "ridiculous resolution," that was drawing a hard line between Democrats and Republicans.

Barack didn't vote on it because he thinks he can have it both ways. But he never took a stand. You must not remember the uproar over that ad. It touched a big nerve in Americans. Or have you forgotten "support the troops" and how that's been the mantra for the last 5 years?

Yes, she did make a speech, defending MoveOn's right to publish under the First Amendment. Your candidate said nothing about the First Amendment.

This is just one itty-bitty item that the right wing has in store for your guy. Deal with it.

[TwilightGardener]

54. I don't know, seems he took a stand against the Iraq War, loudly, publicly, when

the idea of war was popular and politically advantageous--in an election year. I am racking my brain, I just don't remember Hillary taking a stand--oh wait, she took a stand FOR it, along with Bush and all the Republicans. Ohhhh. And then...what? What else has she taken a stand on, besides voting for MoveOn, which was absolutely meaningless grandstanding and shouldn't have been brought to a vote to begin with? And if you want to talk first amendment, let's talk about flag burning and video games--were those stands AGAINST the Republican positions? I can't remember.

[TwilightGardener]

61. Oh, and BTW--my husband is a career Air Force officer, so yes, I

quite understand the attitudes toawrd the military and its commanders.

[stillcool]

86. If it's not one thing it's another...

I don't know why so many people are scared shitless by the right wing. The smear campaigns the Clinton's have attempted have had that boomerang effect. I love it.

Obama voted for the Democratic alternative offered by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) reaffirming strong support for all men and women in the military and condemning attacks on the “honor, integrity and patriotism” of any individual who is serving or has served in the Armed Forces.

But he skipped the vote that came next. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) offered a “sense of the Senate” resolution that Petraeus “deserves the full support of the Senate” and said the Senate “strongly condemns personal attacks” on his honor and integrity.

Cornyn’s resolution was a direct swipe at the anti-war group, MoveOn.org, a powerful factor in the Democratic presidential primary. Senators Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.) - both of whom are running for president - voted against the Cornyn amendment. (Sen. Joseph Biden (D-Del.), who is also running for president, missed all three votes today.)

Obama didn’t vote at all on the Cornyn amendment to the Defense authorization bill.

That left lawmakers scratching their heads. “I thought it was curious,’’ said Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.), the Minority Whip.

Cornyn noted that it would not have taken Obama much more time to have voted on his amendment after voting for Boxer’s. “I don’t know why he had to leave,’’ Cornyn said.

Republican presidential candidates have made hay on the campaign trail as they demand that their Democratic counterparts denounce the Petraeus ad.

Obama managed to cast a vote on the other two amendments of the day, including an ‘aye’ for Sen. Russ Feingold’s amendment to start withdrawing troops within 90 days. But his campaign was insistent that he skipped his Rock Hill, S.C. event to do his work in the Senate.
-------------------------------------------
Aides to Obama had no immediate response to queries about why the senator took a pass on the Cornyn vote, but the senator made his objections clear.

"The focus of the United States Senate should be on ending this war, not on criticizing newspaper advertisements,'' Obama said. "This amendment was a stunt designed only to score cheap political points while what we should be doing is focusing on the deadly serious challenge we face in Iraq.''
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/09/obama_walks_on_antimoveonorg_s.html

[nonconformist]

65. Hell yes she made a speech on the floor about the "Betray us" ad

She stood firmly behind MoveOn.

Where has Obama taken a firm stand on a controversial issue? All I ever see is him SAYING the right thing sometimes. But when he has a chance to back up that rhetoric with a VOTE, he shys away and crumbles... like with Kyl-Lieberman.

You want another example where she stood up for something, that doesn't have to do with voting?

Anti-War Crowd Turns On Obama

As Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. defends himself against anti-war critics this week, his rivals are taking the opportunity to cast themselves as more firmly opposed to President Bush's Iraq policy than Obama – who happens to be the only leading Democratic candidate who publicly opposed the war when it began.

Obama has found himself facing a storm on leading liberal blogs over a weekend interview in which he spoke as though he were an observer, not a participant, in the confrontation between Congress and Bush over a threatened veto of legislation that sets a deadline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

<snip>

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., in contrast to Obama, has refused to take Bush’s veto for granted. She launched a petition drive Monday to demand that Bush sign the bill. Asked in Crawfordsville Tuesday whether Obama's willingness to look past the veto was helpful or unhelpful to the Democratic position, she responded: "I'm only going to speak for myself, and my position is we have to negotiate with the president from a position of strength.

"We need to change the approach of the White House, which means you've got to stand firm and say, 'We don't expect you to veto something that represents the will of the American people,'" Clinton said. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/04/politics/main2645861.shtml

Obama Gaffe on War Funding?

April 01, 2007 11:06 PM

ABC News' Jonathan Greenberger Reports: In what may be a blow to his support among the anti-war left, the Associated Press is reporting that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., says that if President Bush vetoes the war funding bill because of its timetable for troop withdrawal from Iraq, the Congress will then swiftly provide the president with another version that lacks such a provision. According to the AP, Obama explained this by saying that no lawmaker “wants to play chicken with our troops.”

President Bush has previously vowed to veto any Iraq supplemental bill that contains a withdrawal timeline.

Obama’s comments to the AP place him alone among the major Democratic candidates for president. So far, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and others have focused on simply calling on Bush not to veto the supplemental, and unlike Obama, have not stated that the Congress would respond to a veto by sending the president a "clean?" funding bill.

Already, Obama is taking heat for his remarks from some of the anti-war left, which is a key constituency for his campaign. Influential liberal blogger Markos Moulitsas wrote on Daily Kos that he wishes Obama's comments were an April Fool's Joke. "What a ridiculous thing to say. Not only is it bad policy, not only is it bad politics, it's also a terrible negotiating approach," wrote Moulitsas. "Obama just surrendered to Bush."

Obama's campaign did not return a request for comment.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/04/obama_gaffe_on_.html

And to again illustrate the point that Obama says the right thing, and then does the opposite...

Obama said 'no' to Iraq money in theory, 'yes' in reality

January 14, 2008
LYNN SWEET

PAHRUMP, Nev. -- When Barack Obama was running for a U.S. Senate seat from Illinois in 2004, he filled out a questionnaire for the Chicago Sun-Times answering "no" to this question: Would you have voted for the $87 billion supplemental appropriation for Iraq and Afghanistan?

Once elected to the Senate, Obama voted for a series of war funding measures, as did chief rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.).
http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/739563,CST-NWS-sweet14.article

[TwilightGardener]

68. LOL! That should never even have been brought to the Senate. Russ Feingold

didn't even want anything to do with it. Of all the ASININE things to make a floor speech on, that would have to be it. Sorry, what else ya got? What other "meaty" issues has she fought for?

[nonconformist]

70. You asked if she even made a speech about it. I answered. What has Obama fought for?

Because I provided info on where she stood firm on timetables, when Obama said that they'd send Bush a bill with his objections removed. I also provided info about how Obama said he wouldn't fund the war, but then has funded it.

No comment on that? Because, when you have such a short history in the public eye like Obama has, it sure does seem that this type of stuff is a pattern.

[TwilightGardener]

75. He stood up for ethics reform in the Illinois Senate, and actually got it PASSED.

He stood for transparency laws related to pork projects in the US Senate, with Coburn, and got it PASSED. He voted the same day as Hillary, both of them for the first time, back in May, not to fund the war (which I disagreed with, but oh well). He worked on anti-nuclear-terror legislation in the Senate--I believe that bill was also passed. Also voted against, and spoke against, the Bankruptcy bill in 2005.

[nonconformist]

77. Those are good things.

I already knew them, because I really researched both candidates and know what both of their accomplishments are, but yes those are good things.

But that doesn't change the fact that he has said things in speeches, or when he's an outsider looking in, that when he had a chance to really stand for what he said, he didn't. The war funding comes to mind, as does K-L and the McClurkin issue. It's a disturbing pattern of behavior.

[TwilightGardener]

85. He's not perfect--I have often wanted to thump him in the head

for the K/L non-vote--I still don't know if he could have been there, or what the story was, but he has said he opposed it, so I can only take him at his word, though I'm disappointed. I oppose defunding the war as a way to end it, so I don't blame him OR Hillary for their reluctance to do it. But overall, looking at his history and career, I do feel that he's very honest (for a politician) and has a true spirit of public service, not merely that of a political opportunist or a grandstander. I like the fact that he releases his tax returns, for example, and for the way he owns up to mistakes (Rezko). I think if something is of vital importance to him, he speaks up. He's not always the most courageous pol, but he's running for Prez, and they're all ambitious, yet cautious, to an extent right now.

[cbayer]

22. AANNDD.......they're off! Wonder which side will win this one. Oh, that's right, they both lose. nt

[MagsDem]

24. Nothing mocking about it, but she is right

She will fight the rethugs. He has promised to "work with them." Tell me Obama supporters, exactly which dem agenda items would you like him to compromise on in order to get the rethugs to go along?

Ever hear a rethug campaign on a promise to work with dems? There's a reason for that. Put the kool aid down while we still have a dem party agenda to fight for.

[TwilightGardener]

28. Funny, since she's been in the Senate, can you name all the "uncompromising"

stands she's taken against Republicans, all the "fights" she's had with them for progressive causes?

[girl gone mad]

27. Take the blinders off.

Obama says the same type of stuff about Clinton every day. They're in a race for the Primary nomination and both have a right to draw these types of distinctions. Such double standards leave you with little credibility.

[nonconformist]

32. And she is spot.fucking.ON. nt

[beachmom]

34. Obama has actually gotten things done like ethics reform (which Hillary

wanted to dilute). Hillary's big project as First Lady was healthcare reform, and she crashed and burned. I don't see her Senate career showing any Great Accomplishments. I am sorry, but she has no credibility on talking about fighting and getting things done.

[elixir]

36. I think Clinton is right on the mark, Obama has not focused on specifics enough. His campaign would

benefit from it.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Please prove your assertion.

[elixir]

69. I don't need to "prove" that Obama uses rheotoric instead of facts and plans. It's common knowledge

[TwilightGardener]

71. "Common knowledge"? Does that hold up in court?

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

81. Obama has FOLLOWED the Leader game: Last few days he has filled in some of

his empty rhetoric.

He learned from sen. clinton!

[ProSense]

39. Hillary's new spin: Obama lacks specifics, but where are your specifics Hillary

Hillary's new spin: Obama lacks specifics, but where are your specifics Hillary

[Dogmudgeon]

57. Look at that link chain!

You're citing another post of yours that cites other posts of yours (plus some from DKos, the Obama campaign, and one or two from the press -- there were only TWO factual and impartial sources and neither criticized HRC).

Bloggers, the candidate's campaign, and reprints of opinions pieces are pretty biased sources. And citing yourself for validation is unethical. Just because something is cited doesn't mean it's authoritative. But it sure looks authoritative!

The fact that you couldn't even be bothered to check out Hillary's website shows the measure of your intellectual integrity: None.

And I'm supposed to have hope for the future when the Hopemeister's fans are acting like this?

--p!

[ProSense]

78. Oh no, links! Yikes! n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

82. I didn't think you'd read it

--p!

[NashVegas]

41. Go, HRC, Go!

Good to see her calling out her opponent on his rhetoric.

[dailykoff]

46. "I will also stand my ground because there are fights worth having.

Funny, swiftboating Obama is the only "fight" she's ever taken on. And incidentally she's losing badly.

[rodeodance]

48. GOOD FOR HILLARY--she is throwing back the truth to Obama and OP does not like it!

[mtnsnake]

84. That much was clearly obvious right from the outset. Some people are such sore sports, eh

Whine piss moan...nitpick everything.

[Faygo Kid]

49. "You never hear the specifics." Bull. I saw the Obama portion on 7, with specifics.

I missed the Hillary interview, but only because I didn't get home from work until about 7. Obama's interview was specific, thoughtful, and effective.

I did not see Hillary's interview, so I will only note that her accusations, if accurately reported, are wrong.

[TwilightGardener]

58. All those newspaper endorsements, when he had to interview with

the editorial boards, all mentioned how well-versed he was on issues, how great his command of them were. I guess they're intentionally feeding us bullshit, right? Jeezus, these Hillary supporters just repeat shit mindlessly, like robots, even in the face of facts.

[rodeodance]

60. Last few days obama had FOLLOWED Hillarys' good example. he plays follow the leader a lot

[TwilightGardener]

63. Yeah, like "Gomama" and "Yes SHE can" and "Change", and trying to

sound more "eloquent" in her recent speeches--she is the very portrait of a trailblazer, yep.

[rodeodance]

83. such hate from a little wieny doggie!!

[TwilightGardener]

87. Grrrrrrrr......

;)

[sfam]

66. Yet another mock outrage thread...give it a rest already...

And yes, I support Obama.

[Thrill]

72. Thats BS. He has been talking specifics for months

he stood on stage with her and debated Policy. She is full of shit.

[dailykoff]

73. Hilly is turning out not to be the wonk's wonk we all thought she was.

Basically she's a hack's hack, and a dirty one at that.

[tabasco]

74. Yeah, Hillary's been really fighting Bush and not backing down.

Not backing down a bit on her Iraq war vote yet.

Bonus brownie fighting points for the Iran vote too, fighter.

[jgraz]

79. I think David Shuster should be allowed to fire her.

[Vinca]

89. My jaw dropped when I read that she had to give the assurance

there would be no new scandals involving Bill.