Superdelegates were invented to keep us from sailing off the cliff with the latest fad personality

[Proud2BAmurkin]

That system will be tested this year. If it fails and the supers neglect their duty, what then SUPER DUPER delegates?

[smalll]

1. The "lates fad?" I think that should be, "the lattes' fad."

Don't you? :evilgrin:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

2. yup

:toast:

[smalll]

8. Congratulations on your hearts. Haven't seen that many yet!

Of course, I know the Obamatrons would say that those hearts were "bought and paid for" by Hillary's campaign. I just did, so they don't have to.

Course, I only got one. :( And my modest 2/1 paycheck hasn't even come yet. Do you know who I need to contact at Campaign HQ to get on direct deposit?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. Until a few minutes ago he had a lot more than that.

But some of us figured out they were a .gif from his Photobucket account instead of real DU hearts. Strangely, they have now disappeared.

Whoops, the phony hearts are back!

[ingac70]

3. Like when they gave us Mondale over Hart? n/t

[book_worm]

5. Actually Mondale had enough delegates to win the '84 nomination without Super Delegates.

[book_worm]

7. the thing is that Super Delegates are elected officials who will look at who has the momentum

and winning the most contests and who looks like they wil have the best shot at winning in November. As I understand it 2/3 of Super delegates have yet to decide--and also super delegates can change their minds.

[Yossariant]

The majority of superdelegates are not elected officials. About 300 are, out of 800.

[book_worm]

18. Ok, but I still think most super delegates can be persauded by

what the trends are by the time of the convention.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

25. They don't want to pick a GE loser. That's their first priority.

[anigbrowl]

34. And yet we only have the word of anti-Obama trolls for it...

...that Obama is going to lose the GE. Perhaps you guys just don't understand this 50 state strategy thing.

Then again, maybe you do...I keep wondering if you're really campaigning for the GOP, since I've never seen you actually advocate for Hillary.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

38. I do it all the time. Strong on national security and will fix the economy

[anigbrowl]

56. Really - how?

And how is she strong on national security - other than being against terrorism (like everyone else)? The GOP are already complaining she's going to withdraw us from Iraq, so they won't give her apass there.

[rodeodance]

43. nice--a 60 poster knows all about trolls on this board NOT

[anigbrowl]

57. Why would you think

this board is much different from any other internet board? I always read a board for several months before joining - to see who the trolls are.

[Raydawg1234]

53. Actually, if the Super delegates pick the winner, Mark my word,

The Republicans will use this against us!!! The will shove it right back in our face, about how a majority of our party did not support our candidate.

Anyway you put it, the super delegates are a super-disaster

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Mondale had only a plurality of pledged delegates not a majority

Without Super Delegates it would've gone to a second ballot.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. yeah hart woulda won that

[Alexander]

14. So you're admitting the Superdelegates fucked up in 1984?

Hart was polling even or ahead of Reagan. Mondale was polling way behind, and finished way behind.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

30. No I don't think that one was winnable

[stevietheman]

47. It wasn't winnable because Mondale got the nom.

Mondale was a *rotten* candidate, and everyone knows it.

[jackson_dem]

32. Gee why was Mondale polling worse than Hart?

Mondale had served as vice president for four years and had been known to the nation for eight years. Hart came out the blue.

Remember when Kerry, a "new" face for the nation, was polling so well against Bush in 2004? He was up by 8 at this time in 2004. Darn it! If only we had nominated him! He was sure to win! Because we know the poll numbers never change for "new" candidates as they get attacked by the other party for months...

[anigbrowl]

37. Because Mondale was boring.

Good guy and all, but just dull as ditchwater. I have to make a real effort just to remember what he looked like. If Hart hadn't been having an affair he'd have run away with it.

[ingac70]

54. His affair was in '88...

we are talking about the '84 primary here.

[anigbrowl]

58. My bad - I switched them around. But Mondale was boring.

[ingac70]

59. That he was.

I myself prefer boring over dementia ridden assholes, but hey, thats me! No accounting for taste back in the '80s.

[Yossariant]

52. In March, he was. By May he wasn't. The "flake factor."

[Art_from_Ark]

9. Hart was out before that

He was too indiscreet about his "Monkey Business".

If only * had been indiscreet about a romp aboard a pleasure boat

[book_worm]

12. Monkey Business came after in '88

[Hippo_Tron]

15. That was 1988 not 1984

Hart was the frontrunner for the nomination in '88 (buyers' remorse for picking Mondale over him the last time) until the Donna Rice affair. Hart would've crushed bush in '88 and would've been formidable against Raygun in '84.

BTW I see that as a very possible scenario this time. If Hillary loses to McVain this November there will be a lot of buyers' remorse and Obama will be the presumptive frontrunner for 2012. I REALLY hope that doesn't happen because I want a Democrat appointing the next Supreme Court justices. But it could happen.

[Art_from_Ark]

20. I stand corrected

Monkey Business was, indeed, after '84.
(insert ashes and sackcloth smilie here)

[ingac70]

19. that was '88, not '84. n/t

[AX10]

The "lattes fad" will pass.

[OzarkDem]

4. Or from having the GOP and media choose our candidate

which also seems another likely scenario this year.

[MercutioATC]

11. Well, they've done a great job so far....

...I'm glad they're choosing candidates that aren't just a "fad".

...although, it would be nice if they'd choose one that could win...

[Proud2BAmurkin]

21. Well Gore won and maybe Kerry

[MercutioATC]

27. And, yet, we had 8 years of "W"

Incompetent or impotent...is there really a difference in this case?

[Thrill]

13. More Panic. Only the Super Delegates can save Hillary

[rodeodance]

44. Thatmemo is coming from the Obamababies!!--

[MagsDem]

16. K&R

Although I would have said cult of personality. My god, I never thought I'd see the day when the base would act like such sheeple for such an empty suit.

[Alexander]

17. This is the 1984 Mondale-Hart primary all over again.

Right down to endorsements.

Mondale - endorsed Clinton

Hart - endorsed Obama

Let's hope we get it right this time.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

22. you think Hart would have beat Reagan? Trajectory changing Reagan?

[ingac70]

26. Yep.

[Alexander]

29. A March 9, 1984 poll showed Hart 9 points ahead of Reagan. So yes.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50B17FF395D0C7A8CDDAA0894DC484D81

Mondale never beat Reagan in any poll, ever. Hart at least had a decent chance, and he had much more charisma than Mondale.

[jackson_dem]

33. President Kerry agrees

[Yossariant]

48. By May, 1984, Reagan was beating Hart by 11 points:

A Los Angeles Times poll published last week showed Reagan beating Mondale 53% to 41%. But the numbers were just as bad for Hart. He would lose to the President 52% to 41%.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,926496-4,00.html

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Not only that I think Hart might've spared us the creation of the DLC

Hart wasn't exactly a far left winger but he also didn't follow the dogmatically follow the religion of triangulation.

[Alexander]

31. Maybe. Wasn't the DLC created in response to Mondale's '84 loss?

That's a good point - if Hart beat Reagan, the DLC might never have existed.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Yea it was created in response to Mondale's loss

But it was also somewhat of a rebuke of Hart as well. Remember Hart managed McGovern's campaign and he's another poster boy for why the DLC thinks they need to exist.

Hart was an alternative to both Mondale and the triangulation of the Clintons.

[Yossariant]

49. Gary Hart left his wife, changed his name, lied about his age,

and said he would identify enemy aircraft by sending up the Air Force to see what kind of uniform the pilot was wearing.
:rofl:

Then, there's this clever joke on the eve of the NJ primary where he was polling ahead then lost by 15%:
"Campaigning in California, he remarked that while the "bad news" was that he and his wife Lee had to campaign separately, "the good news for her is that she campaigns in California while I campaign in New Jersey." Compounding the problem, when his wife interjected that she "got to hold a koala bear," Hart replied that "I won't tell you what I got to hold: samples from a toxic-waste dump."

By the time of the convention Hart had only 500+ delegates and needed over 1500 for the nomination.

The superdelegates got it right.

[Eric J in MN]

23. No, they were invented by people upset that Jimmy Carter, a sitting president,

...got his party's nomination in 1980 instead of Ted Kennedy.

[mckeown1128]

28. I am so sorry P2BA....

It seems your mind is finaly slipping. Do you just dream this stuff up? I would hate to see you after Obama wins the nomination. Just don't do any...thing....rash. Put sharp objects away. Don't get behind the wheel of a vehicle. Sleep might help you a little. I know you don't get much sleep with all the shilling for your candidate but... sometimes rest is good.

[BenDavid]

35. This is why Donna Brazile is thretening to quit the

Democratic party, because Hillary is playing by the rules and she's ahead. Brazile is spitting and stamping her feet, demanding that the rules be changed so her favorite, the new guy, has a better chance to upset his party elders. So leave, already - who's asking you to stay? CNN might miss your Obama-groveling, but nobody will miss your whining.

Obama knew the rules going in. His camp has blasted and mocked Clinton for wanting the delegates from MI and FL seated, using just that rationale, although it's obvious that if they had voted for him, he'd do exactly the same thing and his followers would be chanting about "democracy" all the way.

Did he complain about the system up front, or is it (as it seems)only when he thinks the superdelegates will help her? Easy answer.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

39. Easy answer indeed. Still waiting for Brazile to leave if she doesn't like the rules.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. But Hillary isn't ahead.

Obama played by the rules and *he's* ahead. And it's Hillary who wants to seat the MI and FL delegates *even though* their states refused to play by the DNC's rules.

[mckeown1128]

41. What are you smoking???

Only one person has changed their position on this thing.

Hillary: MI is not going to count for ANYTHING.

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"


http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858


Don't say it is ok because you "think" Obama would show such a reckless abandonment for the rules.

[rodeodance]

45. I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4526958#4526958
4526958, I love the reaction of Obama when told Kennedy would have to vote for Clinton
Posted by bigtree on Sun Feb-10-08 05:39 PM

if the SuperDelegates were apportioned as he said he wants them . . .


Obama said superdelegates should follow the wishes of the voters.

"My strong belief is that if we end up with the most states and the most pledged delegates from the most voters in the country, that it would be problematic for the political insiders to overturn the judgment of the voter," he said.

When it was noted that Sen. Ted Kennedy is one of his superdelegate supporters, even though voters handed Massachusetts to Clinton on Super Tuesday, Obama said, "Well, I mean, we can make arguments back and forth on this."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/09/2008-02-09_hillary_clinton_and_barack_obama_battle_.html

[rodeodance]

46. see #39---the Obama flip flop on this issue

[Raydawg1234]

50. fuck the 'rules'. This party is supposed to be about democracy.

Super delegates are an outdated remnant of a different era.

If the super delegates determine the nominee I will not vote in the general election. (this goes for both candidates)

[Raydawg1234]

51. Self delete

repeat

[leftofthedial]

55. we just need an emperor for life

to keep us from making mistakes

[VotesForWomen]

60. as long as we have caucuses and multiple month primaries, we might as well have superdelegates; the

whole system is a joke. there should be a one-day national primary.