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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:02 AM
Original message
A Pattern!
This from last week’s TIME:

"I was told by someone close to the President that he thinks he won New Hampshire for Hillary Clinton. If so, he is wrong. …..

"In the past two weeks, though, Bill Clinton has redefined his wife’s campaign. He has made it a co-candidacy. He has cheapened it by using cheesy, misleading tactics against Obama. He began this the night before the New Hampshire primary, when he called Obama’s antiwar opposition ‘a fairy tale,’ which was, well, bullpucky. Obama spoke out against the war before it began. When he reached the Senate, Obama had to deal with the awful reality on the ground: we had troops there; there was chaos. He proceeded to vote like other Senators who had opposed the war – in favor of funding the troops, hoping for progress. As Iraq metastasized into a civil war, he began to vote for a responsible withdrawal. That Bill Clinton would turn this into an attack against Obama was almost as absurd as Clinton turning Obama’s statement that Ronald Reagan had changed the trajectory of the nation – and that, for a time, the Republicans had been the party of ideas – into a claim that Obama had thought GOP ideas were better. Clinton, after all, had said the same sort of things about Republicans in 1992. And he had been tougher on Democrats, decrying ‘the brain-dead politics of both parties in Washington.’ Indeed, almost everything Clinton said about Obama smacked of cheap political trickery …..

"…But even the most casual observer is aware of this: at a moment of crisis in Hillary Clinton’s campaign, Bill Clinton was suddenly back and all over the news. His reappearance made her seem weak, and unable to defend herself. It raised the most fundamental question about her candidacy: If she is elected, who exactly will be President? What will happen if there is a real crisis? …."

"For a man known for his cornucopia of appetites, this is the greatest hunger. There is no controlling it, especially when he is in a defiant mood, under attack for his latest eruption of narcissism. It’s his way of saying, ‘No! Look! I’m not overwhelmingly selfish – just extremely, passionately interested in making the world better for you!’ …

"The bond Bill Clinton built with the black community seemed unbreakable. And so it was shocking to see it shattered in South Carolina by a need for victory at any cost."
--In the Arena; Joe Klein; pages 26-27.

And then this from the current edition:

"….Perhaps the most dreadful baby-boom political legacy has been the overconsulted, fanatically tactical, poll-driven campaign –and Clinton has suffered whenever she has emphasized tactics over substance. Her lame attempts to ‘go negative’ on Obama have been almost entirely counterproductive. Her husband’s attempts to paint Obama as a ‘race’ candidate – his resort to the most toxic sort of old-fashioned politics – only reinforced the strangely desperate nature of their campaign. It was the very opposite of "Yes, We Can’ politics. …

"Then again, one of Obama’s most effective lines is about the ‘craziness’ of trying the same old thing in Washington ‘over and over and over again, and somehow expecting a different result.’ The first politician I ever heard use that line – weirdly attributed to everyone from Benjamin Franklin to Albert Einstein – was Bill Clinton. It is a sad but inescapable fact of this election that Bill and Hillary Clinton have now become the ‘same old thing’ they once railed against. In a country where freshness is fetishized – and where a staggering 70% of the way things are going today – the ‘same old thing’ is not the place to be. .."
--In the Arena; Joe Klein; pages 18-19.

There seems to be a pattern here. Some people will tell you not to read TIME. These are the same people who will tell you not to read The Nation, or listen to Keith Olbermann, or MoveOn. They have a pattern of turning on those that have a different opinion on the democratic primary. I curious: if Senator Clinton does win the nomination, will her supporters still identify The Nation, Keith Olbermann, MoveOn, and people like me as their "enemy"? Time will tell.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. They will for now.
I have scars also. But I do not care. The time to "move on" is now or never.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. "Now" is the time.
I agree with that 100%.

I've noticed a pattern of the attacks on those DUers who do not subscribe to the rigid belief system of a group of Clinton supporters. I do not attribute their ugly tactics to the majority of the people who favor Senator Clinton. But there is a vocal group here. It was as a result of their tactics that I decided to try to get their attention -- which I dare say I have. (grin) I welcome their attacks. As Minister Malcolm X said, "I don't feel that stick. It doesn't intimidate me."

Today will be a time to enjoy Senator Obama's campaign victories. Then back to the gym.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes, I do believe you have garnished their attention.
;-)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Very interesting.
It's reflective of how I see Bill's involvement in Hillary's campaign.

:hi:
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting.
Right here on these threads Hillary and Bill Clinton are treated as "enemies."
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Even more mind-blowing, when you think - Free republic is busy doing this to McCain
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. hilary and bil are acting like the enemy to
the truth. And the truth and governing in the public are what we are for.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yup. You collected most of the memes MSM and Obama's campaign concocted together.
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 09:08 AM by robbedvoter
It's saddening when you see a truth loving activist become a campaign hack.Right under your eyes
:cry:

Do you really think Obama is worth your integrity? because, you know, he has the corporate media doing the lying for him. At least for now. You could have just sit back.
Interesting fact - in 2000 I despised ALL GOP-ers (except Ken Philips) for knowing of the theft and having no problem benefiting from it.
I have now developed a more accurate view of the human species - and it transcends parties.

One more thing: the so called Clinton's misbehavior pattern - before hurled by the eager anti-Clinton media - they were the subject of a strategy memo of Obama campaign as disclosed here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html
"The memo, which was obtained by the Huffington Post and has been made public elsewhere, is believed to have been given to an activist and contains mostly excerpts from different media reports. It lists the contact info and name of Obama's South Carolina press secretary, Amaya Smith, and is broken down into five incidents in which either Clinton, her husband Bill, or campaign surrogates made comments that could be interpreted as racially insensitive.

The document provides an indication that, in private, the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press."

Mind you, your candidate has publicly denied at a debate that there's anything wrong with what Clinton said, but their surrogates - including the corporate media kept running away with those.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. That's one view.
Speaking personally, it's not so much about the Obama campaign. It runs deeper. Time to turn the page.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. What? No answer from H20 Man?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. His views are easily discernable.
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 11:08 AM by mmonk
Obama is the alternative. He inspires. His time has come.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. But he replies to everyone on this thread - except me. Should I feel good or bad
about it?
because here's the thing: watching someone like H20 going from activist to party hack - I decided to go the other way. Party politics - slowly becoming irrelevant to me - as I see what it does to good people.
I'll fight for issues I care about, I'll vote - but I'll be damned if I ever - in my life will be servicing a political campaign, In any way.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
65. Actually, I see most of the Hillary supporters as partisan hacks...

a lot of posts with not much substance. Long-time DUers, like H20, who support Obama often fully support their conclusions with great depth.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #65
77. Except that their sources - tainted. TIME had Hillary on cover as a WANTED poster
Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 06:19 AM by robbedvoter
during the hight of Arkansas Project abuses . Why would we trust them now?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. The Arkansas Project served to deflect attention away from Iran-Contra....

see my post below. If the right-wing really wanted to dig into the goings-on in Arkansas there would have been plenty to expose. I can't argue to support Time, only to say that they were obviously constrained by what could be reported.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
68. Sometimes, party politics becomes irrelevant to me as well,
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 06:27 PM by mmonk
but the reasons surround what it does to the nation.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
72. You are probably on ignore. I think anyone that disagrees
more than once probably goes on ignore. He's very open minded if you agree with him.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. That must be it! progressive dialog at its best!
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list also.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. I see a pattern to your posts, as do a great many here.
:thumbsdown:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yep.
Get used to it.

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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. i'm leaning towards Obama
because i truly believe people will turn out in force to vote AGAINST Clinton. Also, i believe Obama's stance on transparency in gov't bodes well for the future.

What i think will be more important is getting Progressive candidates into local offices and working towards ousting some of the more entrenched and corporate Members of BOTH parties.

But first lets get a Dem elected to the Presidency!

:)

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Not By Halves Or Quarters
Lovely to look at, delightful to see.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. I love the smell
of a boxer's gym in the morning. Reminds me of victory.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. Will There Be Eye Cutting
In today's primaries?

:evilgrin:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. It should be
interesting. I do not think that anyone knows for sure what will happen today. I hope that there is a huge democratic turn out.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. Dupe
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 11:54 AM by Me.
Du is really getting wonky
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Yes.
For the past 24 hours.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. Why the need to post that picture? I don't know what to make of it from you.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Why do you
say "need"? I'm not sure what you mean.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. why did you post that picture.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Why?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I get it, never mind. nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Okay.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
52. Why the need to post that picture? I don't know what to make of it from you.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
60. What?
Didn't we already go through this?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. I guess you never heard of a double post. never mind! nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. I have.
I was kidding. No offense intended.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. well there was offense, you think I'm stupid that I can't remember we just had online conversation?
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 05:14 PM by MassDemm
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Ha!
Funny.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
73. Your pic appears to be race bias. White man on the ropes?
Shame on you.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. Perhaps some insight is in order
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Well, thank you.
I think the pack of Clinton supporters who are engaged in their little campaign against me are a giggle. I think that they are going to have a lot to upset them in the next week!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. You Added A Laugh To My Day
Thanks :thumbsup:
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. I have always loved your posts!
Whether or not I agree, you have done some wonderful pieces for us. Thank you for another one.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you.
I appreciate that. And I do not expect anyone to agree with me on everything -- for any time any two people agree on everything, it means that only one person is thinking.
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TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. Just have to recommend here
Always enjoy your posts, H2O Man. :thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you.
Enjoy the day -- for this is an important day for democracy in the United States.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. I've resisted painting Obama with the 'scandals' some folks here have tried to spin
I think the approach of denigrating Bill Clinton to cast aspersions on his wife is a despicable tactic. I see from one of your posts on this thread that you believe this is a good strategy to bait Clinton supporters with this tactic of innuendo and character attacks on the candidate and her husband. This can only bring out the worst in others who you expect to follow your lead.

I think the tone and substance of this post is like many of the others you've produced in this primary season. It's short on evidence to back up your derisions, and long on the gratuitous insults. Not much is left to respond to, except for your own personalization of this, much like the personalizations of the author of this article from TIME.

I'm amazed that you would encourage this type of debate. I'm certain, from reading the (correct) defenses of Obama supporters against these 'scandals',which many are, like much of the tripe raised against the Clintons, just rehashed attacks which originated from the republican opposition most Democrats were fighting during the two terms of our, nonetheless, productive and successful Democratic president.

And, this particular effort from TIME, designed to sell their opportunistic rag, is certainly nothing to emulate or advance.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. That's interesting.
Paul Krugman had an article that said the Obama campaign is using Nixonian tactics. Here's a link to a response:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/11/what-is-wrong-with-paul-krugman.aspx


In the past 24 hours, DU Clinton supporters continue the false comparison of Obama and Reagan. Some of them have a hilarious sense of selective outrage. Oh, well.

This isn't a tickling contest. As Obama continues to do well in a way the Clinton campaign clearly did not anticipate, I expect more heated debates on DU. And that's a good thing.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. look, there are a lot of things posted here (and elsewhere)
It make no sense to single out the worst of them and posture as if they represent some majority of views among DUers, or of the candidates or their campaigns.

You act as if you have no choice but to campaign with this negativity. Is there NOTHING left for you to promote of your candidate? I'm as certain as I can be, that, most folks looking on would like to know what specifics are behind the homilies and rhetoric in Obama's speeches, more than they need these nasty diatribes from folks who obviously have invested the success of their petty rags in denigrating the Clintons for the pleasure of those who are inclined to the same type of hatred and animosity. That's the effect of these types of posts and articles against our Democratic candidates. They stir up hatred, derision, and divisiveness, more than they inspire anyone to examine and decide on the issues and concerns we all say we care so much about.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I want to say
something, and I want to be clear that I am not saying it about you.

All of life imitates the sport of boxing. Every great American author has loved either the sport, or a boxer. Well, I am no great author, but I am a (retired) boxer.

In the ring, if your opponent hits you low, and the referee doesn't say anything, then you have a choice. It's that choice that Hamlet had -- do you suffer the low blows quietly, or do you return the favor? I loved boxing, bigtree. Love it to this day.

The "dirty fighting" in this campaign has benefitted one candidate: Obama.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I also remember why Howard Cosell left the sport . . . and, took many fans with him
Think about it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Mismatches
bothered Howard. The Clinton vs Obama contest isn't a mismatch, is it?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. It may well have been the 'one-sidedness' of that bout which turned him off
But you can't ignore the fact that it was the brutality of that beating, in that fight he was calling, which decided it for him.

You're familiar with Native American stories featuring Coyote, of course? I think Coyote is pushing you forward in this election. Have you looked behind you to see if he's on your tail? You know, he'll just want more and more, no matter the consequences.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Well, now,
if I compared your candidate to Tex Cobb, the Clinton and Cobb supporters would get angry. And you know that I don't want to get the Cobb fans upset.

When I spoke about attempting to stay united as a party, and spoke of the strong points of each of the democratic candidates, some of the supporters of one -- and only one -- went out of their way to insult me. I noticed that these same folks insulted Senator Obama for his ideas about reconciliation. And they have engaged in some foul tactics. So, what the heck -- let's have some fun.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I don't see it as fun
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 11:51 AM by bigtree
I see folly.

from my children's book, 'Walik and the Last Deer':

The Badger had been following the Coyote since the moon passed the setting sun on its way up. He had been promised a share of a nest of hibernating mice. He would dig them out with his great front claws. The myopic Coyote was up on his toes, weaving through the woods, slowing once or twice to put his nose to the ground.

The pair came to a wide creek blocking their way. Coyote sniffed the ground a couple of times and then jumped in. Badger found a fallen tree to cross and met Coyote on the other side, just as he was pulling himself out of the water. Coyote was startled at first to see another Badger in his path, and he squeaked in alarm. He ran a couple of steps and then looked back and recognized his partner.

Coyote started back on the mouse trail. He led Badger over four moonlit fields and forced Badger to find his way over three more creeks. At times, Coyote was so far ahead that Badger had to wait for him to turn so that he could see his sharp yellow eyes.

Up ahead the miniature moons beckoned and remained still as he approached. Badger was relieved for the hunt to be at its end. As he came closer the shimmery beacons turned downward. There on the ground, a smaller set of brilliant yellow eyes looked up in distress. Above him a satisfied Cougar waited for Badger’s complaint. No argument came from Badger. The Coyote’s complaint was heard, however, as Badger made his way back by himself, over the four creeks and the four moonlit fields to home.~
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Malcolm loved
Aesop's fables. He used to use similar stories to communicate. But he always said that you can't speak French to someone who only understands German.

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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Dirty fighting benefitted Obama because the Mighty Wurlitzer only broadcasted HIS POV
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 10:42 AM by robbedvoter
people never knew what the "fairy tale"was about (Obama's claim to be anti-war, not his being a candidate), what the "it took a president" was about - activism for the right cause meeting with support and political know how - as Moyers demonstrated
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011908A.shtml

Like with the claims of faux finding of WMD at the beginning of the Iraq war - the announcements were prominent and loud while the corrections were small and on the last pages of papers - so, for a long time people thought we did find WMDs in Iraq. That was a good campaign too! Let's hear for Bushco - successful campaigners - twice!


I doubt "dirty fighting" will be just as fun when the Mighty Wurlitzer (Time & MSNBC included) will turn on your candidate for a change - should he win the nomination.
Then you'll experience some of the frustrations Hillary supporters had felt - and of course, re-live the ones you yourself felt in 2004, 2000 - but now you chose to brush aside from your memory
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. We are boycotting "Time for Kids" at my daughter's school - with our teacher's blessings
Somehow, the school has gotten the parents to subscribe - and once a week, the kids have to read a two page edition distributed to them - and use it as base to their homework. Our boycott started after the issue featuring Condi Rice on the cover - with selective bios and pushing the point that she was to be admired - mostly because she was rich and powerful. The homework asked kids to name people they admire - and my kid named an artist who created our community garden's floor and was also cleaning the place. I want to keep this values system in my kid - so TIME shall never be read in this home.
I also read the Hunting of the President. Time magazine is amply featured in the hunting gang: p94.116-117 134,205-206.
Should your candidate win this primary, your high opinion of Time, MSNBC et al will change dramatically, and pretty soon.
P.S. I noticed you answer to praise - and also some criticism, but not mine. Should I be flattered?
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Time role in "Whitewater -"Hunting of the President - p205:
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 09:48 AM by robbedvoter
"to hype their excerpt from James b Steward's forth coming Whitewater book Bloodsport, the editors of Time magazine ran a cover photo of the First Lady like a post office Wanted" poster. Time columnist Richard Stengel opined that "Hillary Rhodam Clinton now faces a crisis that not even the most artful public relations may not be able to fix"

You may know a lot of the Nixon years. I read a plenty about the Arkansas project and who the perpetrators were.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
66. Mena, Arkansas is to Whitewater...

what the JFK Assassination is to Watergate. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but time (as in measure of - not the magazine) will prove me correct. It's all about covering things up.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #66
78. Same book prives "Mena" was a BS story - where left and right fed each other lies
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. I think it is more likely that....

the left and right have too much at stake and want it covered up. Respected journalists and authors have been Scooping the story, however:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00058.htm

Among the many awards he’s received is the Bronze Medal “for the finest investigative journalism in all media nationwide”.

In Partners in Power <Roger> Morris has established that Mena was not only a point of transfer of drugs for arms to the Nicaraguan Contras but that it was a drugs distribution “hub” linked to US airports in half a dozen or so other states. And that Bill and Hillary Clinton essentially knew about the operation from the start.


http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0708/S00242.htm

Doug Valentine: Mena was a CIA operation that existed between 1981 and 1984 but became an issue while Clinton was president and was used to deflect attention from Iran-Contra and the CIA’s own involvement in international drug trafficking.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. What size crown of thorns do you wear?
Will ship post haste.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Ha!
Comic genius.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
30. It's broken a part of my heart
But this is so true:

"It is a sad but inescapable fact of this election that Bill and Hillary Clinton have now become the 'same old thing' they once railed against."
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. In early 1968,
Senator Eugene McCarthy said that one thing that would be hard for RFK would be that in the contesat between the two of them, Robert would be running against his brother. That statement bothered some of Robert's friends and supporters. But I am reminded of it today, with the current contest.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. Said by the same people who had a WANTED poster of Hillary as their cover
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. The Clintons have become the people they came to DC to replace.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yep.
No question about it.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
70. Well Said. nt
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
43. ClintonCo's strong-arm manipulation of the press is the antithesis of democracy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I think that
all democrats should support Amendment #1.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. and it also adds another word to the ever enlarging dictionary - Shustered. n/t
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #46
79. Same as "swiftboated" - only it's against the opponent, and you love it
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
47. Klein on MSNBC now.
He's interesting. I don't always agree with him, but I find him worthy of consideration.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
67. A pattern, indeed.
Cults.

Republicans.

Traitors.

I love "Yes We Can politics!"
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
69. Your posts are always informative and even handed. K and R. nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
71. On MSNBC
Chris Matthews just asked Senator Kerry if both democratic candidates should release their tax information? He noted that one has, and one hasn't. Senator Kerry said he always has, and that Senator Clinton should do the same.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
74. I too see a pattern
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 07:33 PM by Annces






The Pattern of the MacFarlanes of Scotland




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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
75. Please quit blaming that polling bullshit on boomers, ferchrissakes!
Can you say DLC, kiddies? I knew you could!

That, BTW, is one of the least attractive features of the Obama campaign. Guess what happens to the likelihood that you will actually vote as you get older? Bingo! Right in one!
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