When Hillary was in favor of universal healthcare in the 90's what happened to it?

[NightWatcher]

Not being snarky, but whatever happened to Hillary's plans for universal healthcare way back in the 90's?

[jlake]

1. The same forces that crafted Obama's plan blocked it.

[NightWatcher]

3. huh?

[jlake]

7. The same group of insurance and healthcare companies that wrote Obama's Healthcare

Policy worked with the GOP, ran commercials and other propaganda to kep "Hillarycare" From being implemented.
That is why it is such a slap in the face for people to defend Obama's healthcare plan.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Insurance companies wrote Obama's healthcare, and hate Hillary's new plan? That hardly makes sense.

The only manner in which they differ is on the mandate, and frankly there's no financial incentive for the health industry for there not to be a mandate. In fact, the best argument for a mandate is that it will limit the number of non-paying patients, lowering costs for the health industry, and then in turn lowering costs for everyone else.

[MagsDem]

23. Bullshit -- he is using their exact talking points to attack her proposal

The exact same talking point rethugs used back in the 90's. When will you kool aid drinkers wake up to the sham that is Obama?

[Occam Bandage]

27. That's not what we're talking about. Tell me, why would the health industry

write a plan for Obama that was identical to Clinton's--with the exception of the fact that Obama's plan does not force people to purchase their health insurance?

[MagsDem]

30. Why are you opposed to facts being known about Obama

He has taken chapter and verse from the rethug playbook to attack Clinton on universal healthcare, right down to their slimy Harry and Louise bullshit.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

What's the problem -- you can't deal with the truth?

[Occam Bandage]

31. Why can't you stay on topic? We're talking policy. If you want

to bitch about "unfair" ads, start a thread about that.

[MagsDem]

33. Oh I AM talking about policy...

Your candidates policy of co-opting the EXACT same fucking tactics that rethugs used to defeat universal healthcare back in the 90's. Right down to Obama using the same ad scare tactics the rethugs used.

What's the matter? Don't want to talk about that? I can't imagine why not. LOL!

[Occam Bandage]

34. If you can't argue policy, feel free to start a thread complaining about ads.

[MagsDem]

42. Again I AM talking about policy

But you suddenly don't want to talk about his healthcare policy. Why might that be?

[Occam Bandage]

43. No, you're talking ads. Let me reiterate, and maybe you'll answer this time:

Why did the insurance companies write for Obama a plan that is substantively identical to Clinton's, with the single exception of mandates? Please explain in your reply why they oppose mandates, which would increase their revenues and decrease their costs.

[MagsDem]

Her's covers all uninsured -- his not even half

Which is I guess is why he felt compelled to run rethug scripted ads that EXACTLY mirror the bullshit they used to keep us from having a universal healthcare plan 15 yrs ago.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

Are you sure he isn't a rethug? He sure like to steal their talking points.

[Occam Bandage]

48. That does not address the point. Coverage of uninsured in the manner she has proposed,

as mandatory enrollment in for-profit corporate insurance plans, increases insurance-company revenue, increases pharma revenue, and decreases health-industry costs. So why did the health industry, in writing Obama's plan, write in all the objectionable expansions of government influence, regulation, and subsidies, yet fail to write in mandates?

[MagsDem]

50. LOL - you sound less progressive with every post

Admit it, you're sorry you were dumb enough to bring this up, aren't you? LOL!

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

I mean couldn't he have been at least original enough to come up with his own ad?

Fact: Obama's plan covers less than half the uninsured. Hillary's covers all of them for almost the same cost.

[Occam Bandage]

54. Actually, I'm just repeating the same point over and over again, and you keep dodging it by shifting

the argument to advertising. You haven't been able to reply on-topic once. Just embarrassing.

[MagsDem]

58. No, you just want to deflect some actual facts...like hers

covers all uninsured while his covers half for the same govt expenditure. And his costs a family more than twice as much as hers. And he is using rethug tactics to tear hers down even though his plan sucks and she is not attacking his.

What else is there that people need to know to realize he is not the progressive on this issue, and that he's more like the rethugs? But in Obama speak that's called "transformational" and "Yes we can" be rethugs bullshit.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

19. Where do you get this stuff?

Insurance companies wrote Obama's healthcare plan? Did they write Hillary's also, given how similar it is to Obama's?

[sentelle]

62. Really?

Are these the same forces that have given more money to Hillary than to any other senator (and any other Congressman excepting Tauzin)?

So you are saying that forces crafted Obama's plan and Hillary's campaign?

[zanne]

2. The Republicans ridiculed her plans out of existence...

It's way too easy for the Repubs to do this to Hillary.

[samrock]

8. it was

Fillabusted in the senate.. Did NOT get the 60 votes.. IF Obama gets elected I sure hope he knows how to wheel and deal cause it will take a LOT of it to get any kind of health care deal thru the senate..

[zanne]

47. It was fillibustered because of the ridicule...

Even back then, the Karl Rove handbook was being used. Karl Rove became an important political operative when he discovered that ridicule worked. That is how the right wing got the terms "Hanoi Jane" ,limousine liberals","peaceniks", etc. He started with the Young Republicans while he was still in college. His "skills" were used to deflect attention from the specifics of Hillary's plan. Conservatives use his tactics even more today and they're not going to stop because we want them to.

[Jim__]

4. Republicans ran TV ads misrepresenting what it was.

People turned against it because they were told (in these ads) that they couldn't select their own doctors, that they would have to wait in long lines for healthcare, etc. Most of the claims in the ads were patently false, but people believed them. That allowed congress to vote the measure down.

[Aviation Pro]

5. The health insurance industry, big pharma and Harry and Louise....

...happened to it.

[Onlooker]

6. She was actually ahead of her time

She did battle against the entrenched Reagan right and lost, but she certainly deserves credit for trying to get universal healthcare at that time.

[harun]

11. Ahead of her time? People have been trying to implement

a Universal Health Care system in the United States since the 40's.

[Onlooker]

39. Yeah, but never so high profile

Ted Kennedy made a few serious attempts in the ~1970s, but other than that to my knowledge there has not been an effort at such a high level.

[MagsDem]

55. But usually they can count on fellow dems not to run rethug

scripted attacks ads like Obama has done.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

Have I mentioned how very progressive this makes him? Not.

[Occam Bandage]

13. You may have noticed that

every other industrialized nation has universal healthcare, and most of them have universal single-payer. Both she and Obama are behind the times.

[riverwalker]

9. dupe sorry n/t

[riverwalker]

12. Harry and Louise ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt31nhleeCg

[Iceburg]

25. Financed by the pharma companies that are now in Obama's camp/nt

[John Q. Citizen]

14. Here's a recent article on it from a guy on Hill's 1993 healthcare advisory board from

http://www.counterpunch.org/navarro11122007.html

[Armstead]

21. Excellent article

The current "debate" brings back a sense of deja vu. Try to reform, a healthcare system that is systemically oriented against the goal of actually delivering widespread care at an affordable cost.

Unfortunately that applies to both Hillary and Obama's plans. But at least Obama isn;t forcing people into a bad system.

[madrchsod]

24. you need to post this separately

i thought it was something like that but i never realized it was that bad..

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Please feel free to post the link liberally! I did an OP on it a few days ago,

and it is such an indepth insider analysis that touches on a lot of inter relating issues, such as the relationship of NAFTA to health-care and of both bills relationsships to the 1994 Democratic Dive. (as opposed to the illnamed Repo Revolution.)

I think it's important history that people need to know if they want to understand more than just campaign rhetoric.

I think both current competeing bills suck. To paraphrase Ralph Nader, 'There's not a dime's worth of difference to how much they both suck!'

But I already know what's going to happen if Hill wins. It's going to be a Battle of the Titans to fight for a NAFTA style healthcare bill that sucks. I don't want to fight for that. And I don't know anyone who isn't a health insurance agent who would.

And people will stop voting Dem again, just like they did in 1994. Cause who wants NAFTA style corporate health care?

[NashVegas]

49. That's a Fantastic Essay

It forces me to wonder why the Democratic party is so hell-bent on losing elections.

[calmblueocean]

53. Fantastic article.

I don't know if everyone will find it as fascinating as I did, but it lays out the story of our failed healthcare system in this country better than any article in recent memory.

[Tatiana]

60. Excellent article. Thanks so much for posting.

A continuing shift to the right (erroneously called the center) has been the Democratic Party's strategy for the past 30 years, abandoning any commitment to the New Deal and the establishment of universal entitlements that make social rights a part of citizenship. David Brock writes in his book "that Navarro had told Mrs. Clinton that if the President went ahead with a managed care competition plan, it would cost the election to the Democratic Party." Brock's credibility as a reporter is extremely limited, but on that point he was right. I told Mrs. Clinton that the only way of winning, and of neutralizing the enormous power of the insurance industry and large employers, was for the President and the Democratic Party leadership to make the issue one of the people against the establishment. It was a class war strategy that the Republicans most feared. My good friend David Himmelstein, a founder of Physicians for a National Health Program, told Mrs. Clinton the same thing. And as I judged by her response, she seemed to think we did not understand how politics works in the U.S. The problem is, we understood only too well how power operates.

This rings true to me. That's why I cannot support Clinton in the primary. Even if Congress managed to pass a single-payer bill, she would NEVER sign it into law.

[leftstreet]

63. "...an active mobilization of the population"

"No universal, comprehensive coverage will ever be achieved in the U.S. without an active mobilization of the population (especially progressive forces) so as to balance and neutralize the enormous resistance from some of the most important financial lobbies in the nation."

Great article!

[izquierdista]

15. Shhhhhh!!!!!

Don't mention the exalted one's fuck ups. People will call you a Hillary hater. Don't you know she has experience in Washington getting things done???

[Occam Bandage]

16. The Republicans destroyed it. Her new plan is far more viable; it cut out some of the things

Republicans were able to bash the most.

[Avalux]

17. There was a concerted effort spearheaded by William Kristol to kill it.

The GOP undermined the plan and then Whitewater happened. Some think if the Clintons had taken the plan to the American people and openly presented it, it would have had a better chance.

Here's a timeline of events - very informative:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health_debate_page2.html

[Avalux]

18. There was a concerted effort spearheaded by William Kristol to kill it.

The GOP undermined the plan and then Whitewater happened. Some think the Clintons bungled the media presentation of the plan which didn't help it's cause.

Here's a timeline of events - very informative:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may96/background/health_debate_page2.html

[MagsDem]

20. The rethugs and the healthcare industry ran the same ads

against it that Obama is running now. Doubt me? Google it. He is using rethug attacks that worked against her in the past to convince people not to vote for a healthcare policy that covers everyone. Right down to the senior citizen actor roles the rethugs ran in their ads against her back then.

How very progressive of Obama, right?

Real progressives are fools if they are fooled by him.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. Newt Gingrich and Bill Frist happened to it

[enough already]

26. A couple things:

1. The pukes and other entrenched interests fought tooth and nail to kill it.
2. Hillary insisted on doing everything in secret, allowing the pukes and entrenched interests to attack it anyway they pleased (there's that 35 years of experience 'getting things done' again).
3. In the end, the Clintons chickened out and quit, leaving the Democratic Congress that was trying to carry their water hung out to dry, ultimately costing us control of the Congress.

[MagsDem]

28. Watch Obama play rethug on healthcare

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

Witness him using the exact same tactics that rethugs used in 93 to prevent the dem agenda of universal healthcare.

[Occam Bandage]

29. Wow, he put a man and a woman at a table. The Republicans have a lock on that now?

[MagsDem]

52. He followed their script

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

You cannot argue that. Scare, scare scare. Uni healthcare is bad for us. LOL - yeah, it will be just awful. Better we all get sick and die without it.

[Armstead]

32. I live in Massachusetts and the REALITY of mandates is scaring people to death

The ONLY way mandates would make sense is if they were part of a truly universal public healthcare program.

People on marginal incomes are thrown to the wolves under mandated private care more than under the present system.

Both their plans are needlessly pandering to insurers.

[Saturday]

35. Hillary's plan is closer to universal coverage

because of her mandate. Everyone needs to be insured, no one should be able to opt out.

[karynnj]

37. Does everyone in your state have the mandated auto insurance?

Here in NJ, we all have charges on our insurance that insure of if we are hit by an uninsured driver - they are not small, so I would assume the incidence is not low.

[John Q. Citizen]

45. Hill's plan treats people like autos. You gotta buy from some mafia dude agent who kisses ass

or the cops are going to give you a ticket.

And we wonder why the insurance industry runs so much? Why we can't even discuss single payer with a candidate for the presidency?

Hill's plan treats people like machines. You wanta run your machine in my state, you gotta go see Joe and buy some of his companies insurance.

It's time we limit private corporations and expand public corporations. Have we learned nothing?

[Armstead]

46. Everyone should be insured a la Universal automatioc Medicare and SS

Her mandate still leaves the insurers in the drivers seat.

There is a built in bias against providing coverage at low costs in the private system.

If it is to be universally funded, it should be a system like Social Security, with contributions part of taxes, and totally based on income levels. That would be less of a hit on consumers, and it would also put the management in the realm of public policy, rather than the dictates of market forces.

And politically mandates in a private care system combines the WORST aspects of single payer and private health care. Do you think the people who are opposed to having to pay slightly more in taxes for a universal pool are going to accept mandates? It will remove the support of people who might otherwise support it. It's the Nanny State without the benefits.

[samrock]

40. Uh BS!

2. Hillary insisted on doing everything in secret, allowing the pukes and entrenched interests to attack it anyway they pleased (there's that 35 years of experience 'getting things done' again).

it was not DONE in secret... It was prepared ( without the repugs getting involved.. which is the way it should have been THEY are the ones who cried secret)..THEN placed before congress and every one had plenty of time to tear it apart..


3. In the end, the Clinton's chickened out and quit, leaving the Democratic Congress that was trying to carry their water hung out to dry, ultimately costing us control of the Congress.

THIS is just TOTALLY wrong... The senate kept fillabusting... so the dems kept trying an trying to make a deal.. BUT the repubs KNEW if they just prevented ANYTHING from passing they could hang it around the dems neck before the 94 elections and say .. look they did nothing about health care ... and it worked like a charm!!!

[underpants]

36. Medical information cards?? BIG BROTHER ! BIG BROTHER!!!!

Remember that? Now everyone can't wait to get them in place.


She was way ahead of the game on this issue but she did make some mistakes and we saw the full power of corporate America for the first time even though it is in their best interest (their are collectively a bunch of empty suits).

[UALRBSofL]

38. You really don't know?

Universal Healthcare was a good idea even when Hillary worked on it in the 90's. I think we need now more then ever. However, she couldn't get it passed because of timing. The republicans voted it down. I think we have a better chance this time because we'll have majority senate. Actually this version of her healthcare is a watered down version of what she proposed in the 90's. Eventually we will have UHC but neither candidate has it in there plan.

[MagsDem]

44. Her's covers all uninsured -- his not even half

I guess that is why he decided to run the rethug Harry and Louise ads against her plan, just like the rethugs did way back when.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

[Freetospeak]

51. It died in her lap

[alphafemale]

56. She couldn't deliver. Empty. DOA.

Go ahead and blame others for being mean and not playing fair, but she was beaten.

Plain and simple.

[MagsDem]

59. You forgot to add...

And Obama is using the same tactics to kill it again. Because all good progressives use rethug talking points. Right?

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=health_care_debate_mandates_as

Or are all of you just simply immune to the Obama bullshit?

[alphafemale]

61. If someone as "lightweight", as you term him, as Obama, can beat her...

How can she possibly succeed against the GOP?

Her plan already failed once.

Miserably I might add.

[donsu]

57. the neo cons killed it

nt