I think Obama is a better Orator than MLK...

[Labors of Hercules]

Honestly.

[jlake]

1. Good to know. Is he going to speak us out of disaster - or does he have any other qualifications?

[K Gardner]

4. "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom."

[jlake]

9. Again - words, quotes, and slogans aren't going to solve anything

[KittyWampus]

16. are you a zombie or something? We've told you his policy positions. We've linked to his policy pages

we've gone over his qualifications.

What the fuck is WRONG with Hillary supporters?

[jlake]

18. His policies are no good. The change he is bringing is not as good as what ANY

of the other candidates offered.

[KAZ]

43. What do you not get. There are 2.5 candidates left.

Hill is out of cash, Barak is capturing large swaths of non-traditional voters, and McCain is wetting his Depends in front of crowds of 10s. Need a map?

[jlake]

48. Winning does not validate a candidate. Bush won - twice. I still say he sucks.

[bellasgrams]

58. Bush at least had the experience of leading a state. I worry who

the real leader will be if BO gets in.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KAZ]

71. I see your point. But Sbrub only won once! If that!

Peace.

[krabigirl]

23. I'm not a Hillary supporter, and I've read his positions. I don't like some of them. Is this OK?

Or will I be banned?

[KAZ]

32. I vote Ban.

Just kidding. :)

[KittyWampus]

49. That's FINE. But how many times do assholes have to claim Obama has no substance

no experience bla bla bla?

You want to debate policies fine. But don't tell me he doesn't have any.

[bellasgrams]

61. If he has policies he better start telling us instead of prancing

around shouting his slogans like he's having a revival or cheering on a football game

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kittycat]

88. He does, if you'd listen to more than just the 30sec soundbites and victory speeches.

And PS... Reading is fundemental. Try actually reading his policies for once. Then go back and look at all that he did in Chicago/IL. There's no way you can say he is "no good" or ineffective. There might be policies you disagree with, please show me the perfect candidate in that case (that candidate doesn't exist). But he does have solid plans. In addition, his plans are more realistic, given the tone of the country. Just on UHC alone - we cannot just rush in and insist total coverage, it's not going to pass. If we stair step the program, over time we'll be able to get a more consistent program, and streamline the payer system in the process. It's note something that is going to happen over time, or in 4 years.

[PretzelWarrior]

8. he's going to organize us as one big community

and he will enlist a son of a mill worker to help.

[jlake]

12. organize us to do what?

[bellasgrams]

62. Hal-la-lu-ya

[KAZ]

74. Shut this FR down.

[Darth_Kitten]

17. He campaigns for our Sins.

remember that. ;)

[Hoof Hearted]

79. Darth Kitten, that's funny as hell!

The premise of this thread is insulting and ludicrous, Obama better than MLK?

I guess it's not good enough for him to be comparable now, he has to be extra super duper BETTER than MLK. I am sickened.

[KAZ]

22. Heard the same shit back then.

Good luck with the next life.

[jlake]

So the answer is NO - that you want to attack me instead

of show some SUBSTANCE that Obama offers.

[Carolina]

57. oh puhleeze

words have power. MLK, JFK in large measure moved people WITH THEIR ELOQUENCE!

And pray tell what is Hillary's vaunted experience aside from 20 years as First Lady?

Her 7 year Senate career has been characterized by going along with Bush to get along and get ahead. Sheesh some experience, leadership and judgment she's shown on IWR, Patriot Acts I & II, Bankruptcy. And then when did she speak out against Abu Ghraib or Gitmo or for restoration of habeus corpus...

Ready on day one my ass...

[jlake]

63. Praise Obama!

[niceypoo]

90. MLK didnt run around spouting three word slogans

Nor did he read stuff written by professional speech writers.

[Eurobabe]

2. Oh my, I wouldn't go that far.

[blogslut]

3. Why compare?

Why not just enjoy both?

[TomInTib]

11. Stop making sense...

You tend to do that, you know.

[blogslut]

54. Down, down in the basement

We hear the sound of machines
I, i, Im driving in circles
Come to my senses sometimes
Why, why, why, why start it over?
Nothing was lost, everthings free
I don't care how impossible it seems...

[TomInTib]

60. Damn, Woman...

that is pretty intense.

If you do not mind, I would like to keep it.
T

[blogslut]

65. You'll have to ask David Byrne

His words, not mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r7X3f2gFz4

[TomInTib]

68. Thanks

All the same, I was hoping that they were yours.

I only know of Byrne through the art world, I maybe saw his music once on an old Saturday Night Live ("The River"?).

I don't listen to the radio.

Except maybe NPR, and I have grown weary/leery of that, even.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Nah...no one is

But he's up there. Certainly one of the best political orators ever.

[chimpymustgo]

6. Oh HELL no. Just stop this now. Obama tries to emulate MLK.

His best lines in his speeches are FROM MLK.

Let's not get CRAZY here.

[bellasgrams]

55. Just last week he was another JFK now he's MLK , my my,

What a slam on those great men. Who's he going to be next week, Pope John Paul?

[Hoof Hearted]

80. Popebama - - ->

[Raejeanowl]

82. All That And A Bag of Chips n/t

[RoyGBiv]

7. Well that's ridiculous ...

But get back to me in 20 years with what speeches are being quoted. If Obama has eclipsed MLK, I'll admit error.

[tandem5]

10. oh wow

just wow

[Monty__]

13. Not a knock at Obama

but I don't think he is. MLK was in a different league, really a different league from almost any American in the last 100+ years, maybe ever.

[David Zephyr]

14. No. And Barack would be the first to say he wasn't.

I appreciate your enthusiasm though.

And he is an amazing orator to be sure. Just no MLK.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. I have to disagree

Not a better speaker than MLK; not a better speaker than JFK; not a better speaker than Winston Churchill. Better than most in these sorry times when oratory is mostly a lost art, but compared to the real heavyweights...no.

[Bok_Tukalo]

29. Those were all orators of their times

Who is the orator of ours?

I think History (yes, capitalized) is a better judge than contemporaries when comparing with History's judgement.

[citizen4democrats]

19. I think i'm going to throw up n/t

[RestoreGore]

87. I just did

:puke:

[yeswecan08]

20. MLK spoke to blacks. Obama speaks to all Americans

[marmar]

28. That's so not true....MLK spoke to America and the world.

n/t

[Dob Bole]

35. WTF???

MLK spoke to the whole world, until his death in 1968. So you must mean that time that he spoke in church and only black people showed up, maybe?

[MadMaddie]

38. No MLK galvanized the blacks of his time he was speaking to

the rest of America - white Americans that could push for change.
Without the Jewish and the White support the movement may not have been successful.

Listen to his speeches....read them...they were inclusive speeches.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

41. This white boy has been plenty moved by MLK's style and force over the years.

[KAZ]

51. MLK spoke to me, and I don't think I'm black???

[SaveOurDemocracy]

64. Huh?? MLK Jr spoke to ALL Americans ...

Some were just too deafened by their own bigotry to hear the truth and rightness and beauty of his words.




**********

[bellasgrams]

66. Not always, and I have called him on it when he was talking about

the poor black kids in a run down school. What about the white kids in the run down school.

[RestoreGore]

89. You're grossly uninformed

Do you have ANY IDEA of his true effect on the American landscape and the WORLD? Perhaps you should actually read a history book or watch his I Have A Dream Speech and his speech regarding the Vietnam War. He spoke to ALL OF US and moved me greatly as a young woman and I am white. He was not only just an orator either, he was a man of peace and justice and a Nobel Peace Prize recipient who made passive resistance part of a true revolution. And he was willing to go to jail and be beaten, wried tapped, harrassed, and have his private life ruined for what he believed in. He went through the fire for it. Would your Obama do that? Honestly, I think some of you msut be 12 years old. MLK jr. didn't just talk BTW, HE GOT ACTION. And it was because of his efforts and many others of that time period that gave opportunity to others who were discrimianted against. How damned ungrateful and arrogant it is to speak as if what happened during the 60ds and 70s didn't effect today. Such ignorance does not bode well for the future.

[NMMNG]

97. MLK spoke to everyone.

[Colobo]

21. No.

[marmar]

24. I don't know about that....Obama's a great speaker, but MLK was without peer.

..... Just listen to his anti-Vietnam speech at Riverside Church. It's a life-changing, spine-tingling experience.

[jasmine621]

25. NO way!!! MLK was a once in a lifetime. nt

[Raejeanowl]

83. It's An Insult To King's Memory

Obama is not in his league, and it disturbs me that anyone draws such superlative comparisons: the "he's like JFK, he's like Bobby, he's MLK, he's Superman" hyperbole. He's a charismatic presence and he's good at delivering a scripted speech. He's fresh off the stump train, sans baggage.

And in the next breath, a supporter says, but we're not responding to him in a blind, adoring, cult-like fashion-he truly is everything we're projecting into him! I join you in wishing it to be so.

If Obama makes it to the White House, this is going to be a VERY short honeymoon.

[MadMaddie]

26. Obama is the speaker he is because of MLK

Every orator has a time and place in the line we know as time.

Obama would not have been successful during the time of the Civil Rights upheaval when MLK was living.

We must never belittle our predecessors because without them our actions, our thoughts and our very existense would be called into question.

Obama is a gifted speaker of our time lets appreciate that and nurture that.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

27. And some say Hillary disrespected MLK...

[chimpymustgo]

59. Kurt, you've been on fire of late.

nt

[bellasgrams]

69. That kind of crap that BO started is how he lost me. We all

know that the Clintons would never, never be disrespectful to MLK's memory, they have or did have great respect for the people of color, I don't know what they think now since they have turned om them.

[KAZ]

76. Sure thing dude. Rock on!

[RoadRage]

30. Totally different time, set of circumstances, etc. Not comparable..

Both are/were fantastic speakers, but I don't think you can compare one to the other.

Also, I'm only 30, so any MLK speeches that I see are on tape that is more then 40 years old. That may not translate to the speaking style / words of today.

[goodgd_yall]

31. Oh, no, no, no, no, no......

No way.

[Wizard777]

33. I don't really know if he's better. But definately on that level.

I don't think even Obama would dispute that without MLK there would be no Obama. He's living Kings Dream and he's living it large. After this nightmare of a Bush administration America needs to see an American dream come true. It's gonna be the most famous of all american dreams. Dr. King's dream will become Obama's reality. That is an accomplishment America can be proud of. We REALLY DESPERATELY NEED something to be proud of. Obama is someone we can all be proud of.

[Quixote1818]

34. It's possible. If Obama was giving civil rights speeches, the delivery would change

because the civil rights battle had much higher stakes and so the deliver of each speech took a different more powerful, important, serious tone. It would be interesting to hear Obama giving a very powerful civil rights speech.

[calmblueocean]

36. There's no comparing what Obama is doing with what MLK did. Without MLK, there would be no Obama.

Obama is giving speeches to warm, loving crowds, hanging off his every word.

When MLK spoke, his life was on the line. He was leading America in a struggle against a hate more powerful than anything Obama has touched.

Just be satisfied that Obama is a great speaker and leave it at that. Don't demean MLK's legacy (or yourself) by trying to make it a contest.

[shayes51]

93. I agree with you.

What are they going to claim next?

[Tennessee Gal]

37. I think you are insane.

[Labors of Hercules]

86. many people do...

but only the ones who take me too seriously when I throw out a ridiculous premise like this one... ;)
It's the "honestly" that gets em going. :evilgrin:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

39. This is kind of like saying Beatlemania is better than the Beatles.

I have no doubt that some Beatlemania cast members over the years were better drummers than Ringo, and better guitarists than John, or even George.

But one wouldn't say a technically flawless imitation is better than the vibrant original.

Since Obama at his most inspirational is doing a riff on MLK, it's hard to really compare them.

[Catherine Vincent]

40. Oh hell no. If you think that, you drank too much Obama juice. nt

[JI7]

42. i think a lot of Obama's inspiration comes from MLK

[sandnsea]

44. More timely, not better

I don't think anybody was better than MLK.

[grasswire]

45. Did MLK use a teleprompter?

Obama does.

[MonkeyFunk]

46. Then I think

you're not very informed. Maybe not smart. Not sure which.

[AtomicKitten]

47. I think he is opening up like a flower before our eyes.

And I don't care what the cynics say, he is a gift to the Democratic Party. He is engaging Americans on a level and across demographics and regions like, well, in my opinion never before. I am in awe watching him move through this campaign. He may not be everybody's cup of tea, but he is, as it turns out, more and more to most.

[readmoreoften]

50. MLK wrote his own speeches. /nt

[Wizard777]

84. MLK's inner circle actually tried to talk him out of making that most famous speech of all.

His I have a dream speech. They said a lot of the same things people are saying about Obama's speeches now. Like it didn't address the tough realities of what black people were facing. But it does now.

[psychopomp]

52. To put it in perspective

Rev. Dr. King was speaking during a time of national crisis the likes of which had not been seen since the Civil War. He showed great courage in leading a great number of Americans out of the iron cage of entrenched racism and brought dignity to people of all colors here in the United States.

I agree that Sen. Obama is a great orator but they are not in the same league...yet.

[okasha]

53. Take the little blue pill.

Now.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

56. I disagree.

He's excellent, but he's not MLK.

[ProgressIn2008]

67. MLK didn't need a speechwriter. I don't understand the need for over the top comparisons.

[Mira]

70. No - MLK is forever without equal in my mind.

The times were very different, the dangers were greater, the courage requires had to be larger than life.

Mr. Obama is gifted and has promise.
Mr. King was a gift from God and showed us the promised land.

[Cass]

75. Really?

MLK is a pretty tough act to follow. Wrote his own speeches and delivered them with incredble passion. He spoke from his heart. Obama is a good speaker but I don't think he is in the same oratory class as MLK.

[Bongo Prophet]

77. I think your profile says it best, "consuming ridiculous amounts of caffeine while thinking"

Surely you knew this would feed into the hero worship thing.
Toss a ping pong ball into a roomful of mousetraps, why don't ya? :)

[grizmaster]

78. MLK produced RESULTS, Obama has produced nothing but rhetoric

Sorry, but it's insulting to compare Obama's paper tiger to the rich and hard earned successes that MLK's speeches reflected. With Obama all I've seen is the reflection and no past record of accomplishment.

I assume Obama is trying to be sincere, but so far it's all hat no cattle.

[Hoof Hearted]

81. Honestly? I find this post disgraceful.

[Labors of Hercules]

85. Honestly...

I love playing devil's advocate, so don't worry... I HONESTLY think Obama's good, but he's not THAT good.

It's educational to read the reactions a post like this generates. :evilgrin:

[Hoof Hearted]

95. Holy flying baloney Hercules.

You are a bad, bad person. :spank:

:P

[Hoof Hearted]

91. A kick for pure unadulterated hubris.

[Bluebear]

92. OMG I'll say.

[Hoof Hearted]

94. Shocking isn't it? I was hoping it was a misguided form of satire or something.

And wouldn't you know it? Educational though.

[NMMNG]

96. You are welcome to your opinion.

[Horse with no Name]

98. Okay. Thanks for the update. n/t

[shayes51]

99. And I think I'm Miss America. Honestly.

[Onlooker]

100. Obama better than MLK? Are you serious?

MLK spoke of profound things, while Obama (who I support) talks of vague hopes and challenges that appeals mostly to people who have never struggled nor want to struggle for change. Obama is a great speaker, but MLK was truly in different class because not only was his voice resonant, his words were too, and changed America. Obama isn't going to change our country. He's presented nothing new. He's mainstream. Obama will be a fine president, but he's not going to change this country any more than Clinton, Edwards, or any other mainstream Democrat.

[ClericJohnPreston]

101. AND

Sanjaya is a better singer than Frank Sinatra.

Best comparison of form over substance yet!

[WinkyDink]

102. Bwahahahahaha! Nice to hear from an Obama supporter with a sense of humor!