Will Hillary Destroy the Democratic Party?

[meow mix]

if she doesnt step aside and she makes the super-delegates steal the election away from the people, as appears likely at this time.

how can we survive that? we'll be permanent... no credit... toast.
will hillary do this to us?

[Hawkeye-X]

1. There will be heads rolling...

and it'll begin with the DLC leadership....

[jasmine621]

49. That's right, blame it all on Hillary. No one said that when Kerry ran or gore.

You people are just impossible. What is left of the Dem party will be destroyed by folks like the hatemongers here.

[blm]

58. Gore and Kerry were undermined every step of the way by Clinton and their thug loyalists.

They didn't care HOW badly the party or Dem voters were hurt or how the nation was hurt by Bush's policies.

They just needed 2008 wide open for Hillary.

You weren't sickened hearing this from a historian in 2004?
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Bill defending Bush in almost every interview on his 3week book tour didn't raise questions about his intentions?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville's sabotage of Ohio Dem voters was good for our party?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Hillary siding with Bush over Kerry is party loyalty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[musicblind]

73. So true jasimine, so true.

[karynnj]

77. Kerry and Gore won their delegates in primaries

The premise here - which I don't think will happen - is if at the end of primaries, Obama is ahead but HRC tries to win it with the superdelegates. That this could happen is being foated by some of HRC's campaign. (Wolfson has spoken of the fact that it would be ok if she was just slightly behind - as has Gov O'Malley of MD.)

Listening to Senator Kerry's answer on Blitzer - I don't see it happeneing. I suspect that most superdelegates are with him whe he says that they will shift to the national winner of the primaries - either way. http://kerryvision.net/

If the Clintons can't win via the primaries with all the advantages they have, they won't win. Enough of the superdelegates on each side know that giving it to the person who was not ahead would be seen as grossly unfair and would know it would hurt the party.

[joshcryer]

2. She can't control her superdelegates. Maybe a few, but most of them will vote for the pledged...

...delegate leader, and every Obama supporter on this forum knows it. They just want to invent these crazy scenarios because somehow normal people are just talking heads too.

[pnwmom]

19. Sure she can. She's got those supernatural abilities. Didn't you

get the message? That witch is capable of ANYTHING and she's out to destroy the party.

:sarcasm:

[joshcryer]

22. I can't believe how irrational people are being. They think she's going to sue to win.

They think she's going to fight tooth and fucking nail. It's incredible. It's just mind boggling. She'll do the math. She'll quit if she doesn't to *exceptionally well* in TX, OH, and PH.

It'd be wrong of her to drop out now because of all of her wonderful supporters. Edwards really let a lot of people down and Hillary has many more backers than he did. She'll play out March 5th and see what happens. If she can't turn it around (again, *exceptionally*), I guarantee she'll drop out, gracefully, like the beautiful intellectual woman she is.

[pnwmom]

27. Unfortunately, that irrational reaction has been there all along.

But I agree with you -- Hillary is smart and she has the best interests of the party at heart. She's not out to destroy anything and she'll drop out if and when the time is right.

[joshcryer]

31. I've been supporting her since a few weeks before the primaries.

She was always in the minority here. Always overshadowed by the posters here, yet I still supported her. I cannot believe how people see her as this bad evil person.

I hate to mention 9/11, but there was a moment, during 9/11, when Hillary came into the room, and she was utterly booed by everyone there. She walked out of the room, crying her heart out.

She never really stood a chance in American politics.

[pnwmom]

32. Could you tell me more about that 9/11 incident?

Where did it take place? Who were the people who booed her, and why would they have done that? How awful.

[musicblind]

75. Yes, could you give me the details

that sounds awful :(


poor Hillary

She does so much good

and people are so awful to her

[Tesha]

61. The time was right quite a while ago.

There has *NEVER* been any polling that suggests
that she could win the General Election; the
"Clinton" negatives are just too big to overcome.

But her ego demanded that she run and so she has.
And we may all suffer for it.

Tesha

[Sara Bradi]

24. she is not a witch and she is not out to destroy the party

they'll vote with the majority, I can't fault her for trying to win.

Ohio will decide the primary this year.

[pnwmom]

28. Agreed. Obviously. n/t

[bigtree]

3. flamebait

[TexasObserver]

4. No, but it won't be for lack of trying. Party elders won't go for it.

[Little Star]

69. Wrong candidate being accused! Obama may destroy

the party. Many are not to pleased with him. I think our party will lose an equal number of many Dem's no matter which gets the nod. He may just lose many of us. He is lacking humility. Arrogance is not a likable thing and he's got more than his share of it.

[Bicoastal]

5. Dean won't stand for it.

In that scenario, he'll force her to drop out, even it costs him his cushy leadership position.

I have faith in Howard Dean choosing the Democratic voters over his job.

[eleny]

6. No, I don't think so

[meow mix]

41. not feeling to confident in her at the moment

heh wish this primary would get finished

[Quixote1818]

7. Maybe it's time to get Bill back out there. He may have pissed a lot of people off but at least

she was winning with Bill in the picture.

[meow mix]

35. i dont see many other choices for her at the moment..

shes gotta go all in.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. I thought Obama was the "American" candidate now.

According to the Ob ama DUs there aren't any parties anymore in the "new politics" is the "American" party. So , what are you worried about?

[meow mix]

10. the endgame looks potentially bad.. who wouldnt be nervous?

just wondering what will happen lol

[bilgewaterbill]

25. Don't you worry. BO's margin come the convention will be too big.

No way the "supers" will chance a revolt. The overconfidence lesson was learned in New Hampshire and won't happen again. Just sit back and enjoy.

[IndieLeft]

9. Win at all costs... right? n/t

[AX10]

11. This race is not over.

Stop throwing Obama at us.

[stillrockin]

12. If that's what it takes.

[pnwmom]

13. Probably, because she's such a Witch, you know. With those

superhuman abilities, she could do anything -- even "make" the Super-delegates vote against their best judgment -- because she has this mind-control thing going on. Yup, that Hillary is out to destroy us.

:sarcasm:

[Frances]

14. Agree the heading is flame bait

I think Obama will win the Dem nomination convincingly. And I think Obama will need Hillary supporters in the fall. You do Obama no favors with this kind of thread.

[nomorewhopper]

15. the situation you describe will not happen n/t

stealing the primary through "creative" use of the superdelegates WOULD kill the party, and HRC wouldn't do something like that.

[CreekDog]

46. HRC's campaign just stated that they WOULD do something like that

what do you think of that? if she knows that would kill the party, why is she threatening?

[Cha]

16. It's tragic that she wouldn't

give a rat's ass if she did as long as she got her perception of what's coming to her.

[Straight Shooter]

17. You have Barack to lead and guide you, yet you are afraid, borderline paranoid.

As the saying goes, what's wrong with this picture.

[leftstreet]

18. No, but she's basically torpedoing the DLC

which is a good thing!

[meow mix]

36. i wouldnt mind that too much

heh

[shadowknows69]

20. I'll be an independent the next day

I'll still vote in the GE but after that everyone has to earn my vote.

[TheDebbieDee]

21. There you go again........

[BlueStateGirl]

23. Maybe. But I am sure Obama-Jesus can put it back

together again. If he had an actual interest in the Democratic Party, aside from criticizing it.

[Cameron27]

57. I'm sure he could part the Red Sea

if he had an actual interest in doing that too. If the Obamacan Party gets elected say goodbye to all those pesky excesses from the 60's and 70's, we'll soon be cured of our horrible "Democrats' Disease."

[fadedrose]

26. Somebody knew the polls were fixed in the beginning...

and it's common knowledge and has been for years that Hillary and Bill Clinton are the most polarizing figures in the Dem party.

She would have had to realize that her running for the presidency would NOT be welcomed by ALL dems and NO repugs. But she ran anyway because the desire for power is greater than the desire to have a strong winning Dem party.

[Metric System]

30. Ted Kennedy, Al Gore and John Kerry are all considered polarizing too. That's what happens when you

come across the Rethug attack machine.

[fadedrose]

33. I agree about Kennedy

It goes back to Chappaquiddick. My repub neighbors brought it up at the last election and Kennedy really had no major part in 2006 election.

Gore and Kerry are nowhere near as polarizing as the Clintons. They're hated simply for being liberal. Hell, they hate FDR and he's our hero.

I'm not wild about Kennedy myself. It goes back to when he lost the nomination to Jimmy Carter. Jimmy was happily shaking hands with everyone on stage at the Dem convention and approached Kennedy. Kennedy turned his back on him and refused to shake hands.

He did not support Carter in any way during Carter's presidency.

[Independent-Voter]

63. No one gives a shit about Kerry. Gore-meh, Kennedy = Chapaquidick

[VotesForWomen]

29. uh, the election's not over yet, honey. nt

[meow mix]

34. sort of it is..

now its just a waiting thing from the numbers..

[ronnykmarshall]

37. Meow mix?

After reading this, I would suggest changing your screen name to reflect a DIFFERENT product used by cats. The one that is need for the OTHER end of the previously mentioned cats.

Just sayin'.

[meow mix]

38. oh..i get it, how about Tidy Cat

rof

[Moh96]

39. not only that but if she keeps bringing up the FL MI delegates

[meow mix]

40. oh yah, her other dirty trick.

forgot for a sec

[stillcool]

42. Maybe just this part?

At the national level, the movement was founded by the Democratic Leadership Council (501c4 educational non-profit, founded 1984) and includes the House New Democrat Coalition (founded 1997), the Senate New Democrat Coalition (founded 2000), the New Democrat Network PAC (founded 1996), the misnamed Progressive Policy Institute (501c4 think tank, "Bill Clinton's idea mill", founded 1989), and the umbrella funding group The Third Way Foundation (501c3 non-profit, founded 1996).

Since coming to power within the Democratic Party with Bill Clinton's presidency, the New Democrats/DLC have worked towards "essentially the same purpose as the Christian Coalition... to pull a broad political party dramatically to the right" according to John Nichols of The Progressive.

DLC operatives actively worked to sabotage Howard Dean's candidacy for the US Presidency in 2004, claiming that the "far-left" Democrat was wrong to attack George W. Bush's tax cuts and national security policies.

Corporate contributors to the DLC and New Democratic Network include Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation of America, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Philip Morris, RJR Nabisco, Chevron, Prudential Foundation, Amoco Foundation, AT&T, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

The New Democrat Movement is sometimes referred to as the Dixiecrat movement due to the DLC's origination in the southern states, their desire to get rid of affirmative action, and their membership's overwhelming whiteness.

" shift the primary focus from racism, the traditional enemy without, to self-defeating patterns of behavior " --Chuck Robb, 2nd DLC Chairman, Governor & Senator of the Great State of Virginia, White Man, 1986.

"I'm from the democratic wing of the Democrat Party" --Paul Wellstone, progressive Democrat, criticizing the New Democrat Movement.

"Democrats for the Leadership Class" --Jesse Jackson, progressive black Democrat, describing the DLC.
http://www.nndb.com/group/269/000093987/

[CreekDog]

43. We make sure every superdelegate knows that the party will lose if they decide things that way

because we will not support that type of decision.

our voters have stuck with this party through a hell of a lot, the superdelegates should know that if they ignore the voters, they lose.

[Dhalgren]

53. Wait a minute. Don't the SDs get to vote for whom they want? They

are not obligated to vote in any particular way. They each get to vote their conscience. Why would you try to dictate for whom someone else would vote?

[CreekDog]

54. They HAVE that right, but overruling the party's voters will have consequences

and sure they can do it, but if they do, no vote from me in November.

clear enough?

[Dhalgren]

64. There will be no vote from me in November, period.

Clear enough?

[CreekDog]

66. why not?

i mean it's clear, but the reasoning is not obvious to me.

[Dhalgren]

67. There is no place for me in the Democratic Party. I have been, in essence,

kicked out. So, I will be voting on individual races and on candidates that appeal to me. Since neither of the major parties have candidates for president that I can support, I will either leave that slot blank, or will choose some other party's candidate or write some one's name in. It is rather sad, too, because I have voted a straight Democratic ticket in every election since 1972...

But when your Party gives you the old heave-ho, there is no point in crying over spilled milk, eh?

[CreekDog]

70. i can accept if the voters in the party choose someone i'm not crazy about

that doesn't mean the party left me.

[Dhalgren]

72. Good for you! Hang in there!

[Forrest Greene]

44. One Can Only Hope

Let's just get it over with.

[jillan]

45. Actually, I'm thinking it's posts like this that are the most detrimental to our party.

[huskerlaw]

47. You wasted one of your 3 posts on this shit?

:rofl:

How sad.

[Az_lefty]

48. The Clintons are capable of causing all kinds of harm trying to get what they want

at times they seem to think it's all about them. As for destroying the Democratic party, I don't see it going that far. If they make total asses out of themselves they'll be brushed aside before it gets to that point.

[mmonk]

50. No. Only the party itself could do that.

[Metric System]

51. Will Obama Destroy the Democratic Party?

will barack do this to us?

[aquarius dawning]

56. Only if that's what it takes to win.

[formernaderite]

52. as pissy as that would be...it wouldn't be stealing

these are the rules "we" the democratic party set up. We have these super delegtes who aren't beholden to anyone or group in particular. I don't think she would actually do that..without some strong wins. Let's just say, is she got the nomination...her election through any means other than the voters explicit wishes would go down in flames.

[LisaM]

55. Hillary is a DEMOCRAT. Obama is an OBAMICAN.

I'm beginning to have serious problems with that. I do not believe that he is as committed to the party as she is. He's way too anxious to truck with Republicans.

[ShortnFiery]

59. Nope HRC is a *DLC Clintonian" who will not go easy into that good night.

But we must wrest loose the right wing of the Democratic party (DLC) - stop their absolute control over the selection of our Presidential Nominees and/or control of our Executive Branch.

[LisaM]

60. I don't entirely disagree with you; HOWEVER

I think Obama's campaigning to the middle just as the DLC insists that candidates must do. We saw what happened to the progressive candidates.

[Marrah_G]

62. Get a grip. Hillary isn't destroying anything- she isn't the fucking anti-christ

[nickn777]

65. I won't vote for her in the GE, if she's the nominee, unless....

she wins fair and square, by amassing more PLEDGED delegates....as opposed to using the elite to "install" herself as the nominee and subvert the will of the people.

[shaniqua6392]

68. Since Obama can walk on water and perform miracles....

it should be no problem for him to win. :sarcasm: If the SD's go for Clinton, then she is the candidate they think has the best chance to win. That is what SD's are there for. If there is not that much difference in the delegate totals, they decide what is best to win the White House. It does not mean that if Obama has one more delegate vote at the convention, they are forced to vote for him. The goal is to get the White House back.

[Blue_In_AK]

71. Hahahahahahahaha.....

:rofl: Sorry, I couldn't help myself. That's a lot of power you're ceding to the little lady.

[JuniperLea]

74. Is this a new spin on fear tactics used by BushCo?

Not working.

[RiverStone]

76. I can't fathom she would be that selfish...

This has to end way before the convention.

If Obama takes either OH, PA, or TX - no math can save her. She must step aside "if" that happens.

[George_Bonanza]

78. I will help the McCain candidacy if...

If Hillary has a significant (100+) deficit in pledged delegates yet still cajoles superdelegates to back her.

If Hillary is behind in states won, pledged delegates, and total votes cast, and still gets the superdelegates.

If Hillary gets Michigan delegates seated (Florida I could live with since all the names were on the ballot).