Experience matters? The experience of past presidents prior to being elected

[jackson_dem]

Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Madison need no introduction. I will start with Monroe. Presidents who assumed office through succession or selection have an asterisk next to their name. The former because they were not evaluating by the people as to whether they were up to the job. If they did get elected later it was after they proved themselves as incumbents. The selection asterisk is because voters rejected such a candidate. Only relevant experience is listed.

Monroe: 3 years in the Continental Congress, delegate to the Virginia convention to ratify the Constitution, U.S. senator for 4 years, minister to France for 2 years, governor of Virginia for 3 years, helped negotiate the Louisiana purchase, ambassador to Britain for 4 years, governor of Virginia again for 1 year, Secretary of State for 5 years, Secretary of War for 1 years. Total: 23 years

Adams: Minister to the Netherlands for 2 years, minister to Portugal for 1 year, minister to Prussia (Germany) for 4 years, U.S. senator for 5 years, minister to Russia for 5 years, negotiated peace treaty ending the War of 1812, minister to Britain for 2 years, Secretary of State for 8 years (acquired Florida, brokered a treaty, and wrote the Monroe Doctrine). Total: 27 years

Jackson: Delegate to Tennessee constitutional convention, 1 year in the House, 1 year as a U.S. senator, 6 years on the TN supreme court, commander of the Tennessee militia, war hero as a general during the War of 1812 (won the battle of New Orleans) and general in the Seminole war, first governor of Florida for (1 year), U.S. senator again for 2 years. Total: 13 years

Van Buren: U.S. senator for 7 years, governor of New York for 2 months until appointed Secretary of State (2 years), vice president for 4 years. Total: 13

William Harrison: Equivalent to the lieutenant governor of the Northwest territory for 1 year, member of the House for 1 year, governor of the Indiana territory for 11-12 years, commander of the Northwest Army (invaded Canada, crushed the British at Thames, war hero), House for 3 years, U.S. Senate for 4 years. Total: 21

Tyler*: House for 4 years, governor for 2 years, 9 years in the U.S. senate, vice president for 1 month. Total: 15

Polk: 14 years in the House (4 as the Speaker), 2 years as governor. Total: 16 years

Taylor: general, war hero in the Mexican War and also fought in the War of 1812, Blackhawk and Seminole wars.

Fillmore*: 11 years in the House, vice president for 2 years. Total: 13 years

Pierce: 4 years in the House, 5 years in the Senate, offered the job of U.S. AG. Total: 9 years

Buchanan: 10 years in the House, ambassador to Russia for 2 years, 10 years in the Senate, nominated to the U.S. Supreme Court but declined, Secretary of State for 4 years (negotiated the Oregon treaty with Britain). Total: 26 years

Lincoln: 2 years in the House, helped create the new Republican Party, could have been U.S. senator but allowed someone else to be appointed for party balance (former Democrat given the spot. Lincoln was a former Whig). Total: 2 years

Johnson*: governor for 4 years, senator for 5 years, vice president for 1 month. Total: 9 years

Grant: Civil war hero, saved the Union militarily.

Hayes: 2 years in the House, governor (Ohio) for 5 years. Total: 7 years

Garfield: 18 years in the House. Total: 18 years

Arthur*: New York machine crony put on the ticket by the machine to protect their interests.

Cleveland: Mayor of major city (Buffalo) for 1 year, governor of New York for 2 years. Total: 3 years

B. Harrison: Senator for 6 years.

McKinley: 11 years in he House, 4 years as governor of Ohio. Total: 15 years

TR*: As Asst. Sec. of Navy played a key role in preparing the nation to fight a major war (which came soon), war hero, governor of New York for 2 years. Total: 2

Taft: Governor-General of the Philippines for 2 years, Secretary of War for 4 years. Total: 6 years

Wilson: leading academic, president of Princeton University, governor of New Jersey (2 years). Total 2 years

Harding: Lt. Gov of Ohio for 4 years, Senator for 6. Total: 10 years

Coolidge*: Lieutenant Governor for 3 years, governor (Massachusetts) for 2 years, vice president for 2. Total: 7

Hoover: Secretary of Commerce for 7 years.

FDR: Assistant Secretary of the Navy for 7 years (including during WW I), nominee for vice president in 1920, governor of New York for 4 years. Total: 11 years

Truman*: Senator for 10 years, vice president for 4 months. Total: 10 years

Eisenhower: War hero, supreme allied commander during WW II.

JFK: member of the House for 6 years, senator for 8. Total 14 years

LBJ*: 12 years in the House, 12 years as senator (6 years as Senate majority leader), vice president for 3 years. Total: 27

Nixon: House for 3 years, U.S. Senator for 3 years, vice president for 8 years, nominee for president in 1960, nominee for governor of California in 1962. Total: 14 years

Ford*: 24 years in the House (8 years as minority leader).

Carter: governor of Georgia for 4 years.

Reagan: governor of California for 8 years, almost unseated an incumbent president for the nomination in 1976 and took it all the way to the convention. Total: 8 years

Bush: House for 4 years, Ambassador to the UN for 2 years, RNC chair, de facto ambassador to China for 2 years, CIA director for 1 year, vice president for 8 years. Total 17 years

Clinton: governor of Arkansas for 12 years.

Bush 43*: governor of Texas for 6 years.

Modern party nominees for comparisons and (President) Gore

Gore (elected): member of the House for 8 years, senator for 8 years, vice president for 8 years. Total: 24 years

Kerry: Lt. Gov. of Massachusetts for 2 years, senator for 19 years (as of 2004). Total: 21 years

Dole: Senator for 27 years (majority leader for 3 years, minority leader for 8), vice presidential nominee in 1976

Dukakis: 9 years as governor of Massachusetts (as of 1988).

Mondale: senator for 12 years, vice president for 4. Total: 16 years

I was struck by how few governors from small states have made it to the top. It wasn't a total surprise because big state governors get more national press and start with larger fund-raising bases but the disparity was more than I expected. Excluding governors of territories, here is an unofficial list from memory of governors by state to make it to the presidency.

NY 4
VA 2
TN 2
Ohio 1
NJ 1
MA 1
CA 1
GA 1
TX 1
AR 1

TN was not a significant state when it had governors go to the top but that was in the 19th century. The only governor of a small state since then to become president is Bill Clinton.

[OzarkDem]

1. No room for inexperience

Our country is in terrible shape, it needs someone with experience to take over and restore peace and prosperity.

[jackson_dem]

2. Basically everyone on the list who got elected had some major accomplishments and/or experience

The few that got in without experience had significant accomplishments, i.e. helping found a new party or being governor of a very important state (New York in the case of both Roosevelts). Obama pales in comparison to the folks on the list and the thought of him winning in wartime against McCain (associated with security) of all people? You need a lot of "hope" to believe that.

[IndieLeft]

10. There are NO requirements to be president....

You don't have to have a college degree... You don't have to be a elected official. Shit, you don't have to know the first damned thing about politics.

You do have to be born in the country, and what... 35 years old.

That's it. There is something to be said for experience, yes, but what about what about judgment? What about the right kind of experience? You can't change DC if you are a DC insider.

I applaud the fact that you went through and put this together, but honestly, if it was about experience, it would be in the constitution.

[jackson_dem]

18. Look at the list

The official requirements are very broad but voters look for experience or extraordinary accomplishment. Obama has neither. History suggests he will get beaten badly by McCain. Even worse for him he is running against Mr. Security during wartime!

[EffieBlack]

13. Both candidates have experience

They just have different kinds.

And neither's experience is of the traditional kind.

[IndieLeft]

15. That's right. I agree completely.

[jackson_dem]

19. Obama would be the least experienced/accomplished elected president ever

He has little shot against McCain because of that.

[baldguy]

16. We've the most experienced administration in office RIGHT NOW.

[jackson_dem]

20. Bush was one of the least experienced presidents ever

The cabinet's experience is a Bs talking point from Obama. Every president has an experienced cabinet. Bush failed because of his inexperience, not because his cabinet was as experienced as every other cabinet since Washington.

[baldguy]

40. Bush failed b/c he's the mannequin the neocons put up as a figurehead.

He has no real power.

The neocon agenda failed because it's based upon a false world view - that Americas dominance in the last century grew from our military might & the imposition of our will forcibly upon the world. In fact, the "American Century" was based upon alliances - social, diplomatic, economic - in which we PERSUADED our allies & adversaries to follow our lead. Our military might - though substantial - was secondary to other methods.

[SKKY]

38. We need vision and sound judgement, not experience...

[kennetha]

3. What exactly has prepared Obama to be Commander in Chief?

I can't think of a credible answer to that question that he can give. Not that other candidates have had better answers. Bill Clinton, George Bush II, come to mind. So I'm not saying that that's a knock-down argument against his candidacy. But the guys been a state legislator, an organizer, and a senator for all of two years now. What in his experience equips him to be commander in chief? Or is that something that just about any smart articulate person can do -- which is all I see that recommends Obama for that role.

Actually the deeper question. What in Obama's past equips him to be president at all? His native intelligence and charisma? Both of which he has in spades, I admit. But that would argue that just about any smart, articulate charismatic person was ready to be president.

[jackson_dem]

6. Nothing and this will give the rethugs a fighting chance in the general

How is Obama going to convince folks they can trust him with their security against the guy who is perceived as Mr. Security and has at least seven times the experience he does?

[oviedodem]

12. What's Hillary national security record vs McCain? Next Item.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. He was right about Iraq.

A lot of other people sure bungled that call.

[EffieBlack]

17. We should not fall into the trap

For centuries, white males - usually of a certain class - have held onto the reins of power by insisting that only CERTAIN kinds of experience was relevant to being president. And then they saw to it that that experience was in areas in which they held almost exclusive control.

So you could only be president if you had previously been 1) president; 2) senator; 3) member of Congress; 4) governor; 5) military general; 6) college president. Ah, who cares if only white men had any opportunity of holding one of those jobs for most of our history? And who cares if those positions are STILL overwhelmingly held by white men and that it will take decades for women and minorities to catch up in those areas?

But besides that, who SAYS that those are the only appropriate measures of experience? Why isn't community organizing just as valid as being a member of Congress? I know lots of members of Congress and I know lots of community organizers and, trust me, the former aren't any smarter, savvier, sophisticated, knowledgeable or effective than the latter. And why CAN'T a former First Lady - one who was one of the smartest and most respective lawyers and advocate for the issues we care about, who traveled the world as one of America's top diplomats and who is a well respected senator from the nation's largest state - be given credit for her experience doing all of these things.

Frankly, I see many of the "they don't have enough experience" arguments to be excuses for the white male status quo exclusive club to try to hold onto their power.

But it's a different world now, people. And I like it this way.

[jackson_dem]

23. What is your obsession with white males?

Are you terrified that Gravel will win the nomination? It's over. He can't do it mathematically.

Community organizing doesn't prepare one to be president. Lol! I can see Obama's argument.

Moderator: Senator, what qualifications do you have to ensure people you will be able to protect the country?

Obama: Well, I once was a community organizer.

(laughter and rolled eyes from audience)

Moderator: Ok...Senator McCain can you tell us why you are qualified?

McCain: My friends, I have been involved in every national security decision for the past 20 years...

Moderator: Senator Obama, your response?

Obama: Hope. Change.

Moderator: That's it?

Obama: Yes we can. Fired up?

[EffieBlack]

30. Not an obsession - it's just that white males are not used to being referred to as such

so it may be jarring for you to hear it.

White men are used to being referred to as "people." The rest of us non-white non-males are consistently referred to by our subgroup.

I'll bet you that Obama alone has been referred to as "black" on DU in the past week exponentially more than all white men have been referred to as such in the past year.

[jackson_dem]

32. What is your point? The only white male left is Gravel and he can't win

You are right and we know in our culture whites are assumed to be the default. Richardson was a Hispanic, Obama black but Biden was never described as a white candidate. However, this year it would also be dishonest to say Obama hasn't benefited from the "first" hype and Hillary too with the "first" woman hype. The big majority of white males voted against white male candidates this year and that also has to be acknowledged. Obama is getting almost 90% black male support and Hillary roughly 60% white female support. Edwards never got higher than a third of white males nationally and the other white males (Gravel, Biden, Dodd, and Kucinich) never got close to double digit white male support. Times are changing. Why are you so bitter? You should be ecstatic.

[EffieBlack]

36. Biden was never described as a white candidate. He was just "a candidate"

You make my point for me. White males are just expected to be "people" while blacks and women are seen as the "black people" and the "female people.." not just "the people."

I'm not bitter at all. I'm delighted at how things are going. Among other things, I think this has been a great learning experience for us all.

[jackson_dem]

39. I don't disagree with that

[EffieBlack]

41. We agree again!

Next thing you know, we'll be engaged.

:hug:

[unc70]

4. Lincoln lack of experience is not a good example

If he had been more experienced and thus more inherent authority, Lincoln might have been able to control enough of the factions involved for long enough that a way might have been found to avoid the war.

[Barack_America]

9. He also had experience in the IL legislature, which I don't see listed here. n/t

[IndieLeft]

11. Of course not... it was "accidentally" left out.

Just like the posts earlier today where they "forgot" to put that there were 2 votes for the FISA bill, and that Obama DID show up for the first one.

[jackson_dem]

21. That isn't relevant experience

There is a reason no one has ever went from state legislator to president. It qualifies you for governor or Congress, not president. Presidents get to the White House with gubernatorial, senatorial, or extraordinary military experience. Obama has none of these.

[Barack_America]

25. Obama doesn't have Senatorial experience?

He doesn't have experience in Washington at least equal to Lincoln?

And it also only your opinion that experience in state legislature does nothing to prepare someone for the White House. It's a case-by-case basis. Lincoln sure as hell did a pretty good job as President with minimal time spent in Washington and years in the IL legislature.

[jackson_dem]

28. Did Obama help found a new national party like Lincoln?

Obama is no Lincoln. What has Obama accomplished? Lincoln was able to pull it off during a national crisis and because of the connections he got from helping found the GOP. He didn't magically go from nowhere to the White House.

It isn't my opinion. It is the opinion of the American people. Why hasn't anyone went straight from a state legislature to the White House? Because it would be a joke and no state legislator would even bother to run a campaign that no one would take seriously.

[Barack_America]

31. Isn't that exactly what this "cult" BS is all about...

That Obama is pulling people in from different parties to form a "movement"?

Are you suggesting that the American people aren't taking Obama's campaign seriously? The primary results thus far would disagree with you there.

I don't get what you are aruging. Obama does have experience at the national level, he didn't come straight out of the IL legislature and people are taking him seriously.

Those are all facts.

[jackson_dem]

33. Lincoln helped form a real movement

And even that wasn't totally new. It mainly replaced the deceased Whig Party (and Obama never bothers to, at least publicly, think why we have always had 2 parties. It isn't because of "special interests" and "spin peddlers"...).

No one takes his state experience seriously. Whether folks believe 3 years in the senate is enough is another matter. Apparently at least in the primaries people think that is enough.

He has little experience at any significant level and history suggests he will get rejected by voters. This is a time of war. Will voters trust Obama to lead the nation over Mr. Security? We may find out. They didn't trust Kerry...

[zbdent]

5. It's ironic that the Republicans will use Bush's effing up the country

as the reason not to vote for Obama ...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Obama: state senator 9 years, U.S. senator 3 years

Total: 12 years.

What's not to like?

[IndieLeft]

14. vs Hillary... 6 years in senate? and... 8 years as first lady

in which she completely CAVED on health care.

[jackson_dem]

22. 3

State senator doesn't prepare one to be president. Total number of state legislators to go straight from that to the presidency: 0. Has anyone even run straight from the state legislature for the presidency? I doubt it because it would not be a serious candidacy.

[mckeown1128]

24. Obama isn't going from Illinios into the presidency..

You are forgetting that by the time he takes office he will ALSO have 4 years of U.S. Senate experience

[jackson_dem]

27. He has 3 years right now

The information has been posted above. Compare that to the folks on the list. The few who got there with 2-3 years of experience had extraordinary accomplishments.

[Barack_America]

34. What isn't extraordinary about authoring two best-selling books....

refocusing the party with a convention speech, getting elected US Senator, traveling around to swing states and districts (winning elections for Dem candidates), and running for President with a campaign that is turning out record numbers of new Democrats?

I think it's hard to describe what he has accomplished in such a short time as anything other than extraordinary.

[EffieBlack]

37. Obama and Clinton both have much more political and public service experience than John Edwards

did, yet we rarely heard these kinds of questions raised about Edwards' experience or lack thereof.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. But LT governor, CIA director, and Assistant Secretary to the Navy do?

You're not making any sense.

[jmg257]

26. Since this aparently has something to do with the primaries, let's see what we got...

Hillary Rodham Clinton
Graduated from Yale Law School in 1973
Married Bill Clinton in 1975
First female partner at Rose Law Firm in 1979
First Lady of Arkansas from 1979 to 1981 and 1983 to 1992,
Served on the board of Wal-Mart and several other corporate boards.
First Lady of the United States 1992-2000
Became the only First Lady to be subpoenaed, testifying before a federal grand jury as a consequence of the Whitewater scandal in 1996.
Elected as senator for New York State in 2000;

Actual Political Experience:
Clinton: US Senator 8 years.

************************************


Barack Obama
Columbia degreee
Entered Harvard Law School in 1988, graduated magna cum laude in 1991
Harvard Law Review's "first black president in its 104-year history" 1990
Associate attorney with Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 1996
Represented community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases.
Lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 till 2004
Served in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004.
Elected to the U.S. Senate in November 2004

Actual Political Experience:
Obama: State Senator 7 years
US Senator 3 years




OK, so what's your point?

[jackson_dem]

29. 8 years

Compare that to the list. There have been some who have win with about that much official experience. In reality she has far more experience. Everyone outside the blogosphere knows she played a key role in the White House for 8 years and in Arkansas governor's mansion for 12 years.