Where does Obama stand on privatizing Social Security?

[OzarkDem]

He has supported versions of it in the past and one of his economic advisors promotes it.

[jackson_dem]

He, like the DLC, favors private accounts to supplement (not replace) SS

If you don't know where Obama stands on an issue a good place to go is http://www.dlc.org/

He has also stated that raising the retirement age should be on the table.

[OzarkDem]

2. Just as I thought

How many of his supporters know this?

[jackson_dem]

3. Probably 0

And once they read it they will delete it from memory. This is how they get away with viewing Hillary as an evil, closet rethug DINO while simultaneously viewing Obama as a progressive savior and saint. You can only do this by ignoring the policies of the two and merely "hoping" they are what you "believe" they are.

I want to make it clear Obama does not favor, at least right now, privatizing SS per se. He wants to supplement it with those accounts. He also has spoken in the past of putting raising the retirement age on the table.

[southern_dem]

8. ...

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/socialsecurity/ would be the place to look.

"Obama will protect Social Security benefits for current and future beneficiaries alike. And he does not believe it is necessary or fair to hardworking seniors to raise the retirement age. Obama is strongly opposed to privatizing Social Security."

I know he's not as progressive as Edwards, but you really need to drop this act. You aren't helping Senator Clinton win anyone over.

[jackson_dem]

11. He flip flopped then in a matter of a few months

Can you "hope" that he means it? Go ahead. I am not a senior. Hillary can be fully trusted on this.

St. Obama is a public figure. The msm doesn't question him but we should. This isn't a beauty contest. We need to know the substance of who were are nominating.

Why didn't he mention who his advisers are on that page? The devil is in the details. The quote above is Democratic boilerplate and inconsistent with what Obama himself said in 2007, although I think he did flip flop after seeing the outrage from seniors.

[OzarkDem]

34. Agree, the devil is in the details

like all of his policies, you have to look closely to undertand what they really do and don't aim for.

He's a shapeshifter in public, but an economic conservative at heart. He's proven that time and time again.

[rjx]

40. Nice try Billary supporters hehe

Advisors are just that, they advise. AKA offer an opinion. Is that bad? The person being advised doesn't have to follow the advice ... they have their own mind to do what they feel is best.


Tuesday, April 26th, 2005, Obama defended Social Security and other New Deal derived programs in an address to the National Press Club and condemned Bush’s plan to privatize Social Security as Social Darwinism.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/050426-_a_hope_to_fulfill/index.php

[GOPBasher]

46. Hillary may be the best potential president in the world, but I still wouldn't

vote for her. If I agreed with her on 100% of the issues (which is never the case with any candidate), I still wouldn't vote for her. Being perfect on the issues doesn't make one bit of difference when you LOSE the general election to the Republican.

ON edit: I mean that I wouldn't vote for her in the primaries. Of course I'd support her in the general, even though I think she'd lose.

[donheld]

5. We've seen all the crap

We've heard the whining and most of us have made our vote. Get over it.

[jackson_dem]

6. Policy (you call it "crap") doesn't matter if you have hope

As an Obamite once said, belief leads to hope, hope leads to change, if we just believe there is no way we can lose!

[OzarkDem]

9. So you're in favor of Social Security Privatization?

Is that what you're saying? Is giving up money for retirement less important than being on what you perceive to be the winning team?

[donheld]

14. This has all been discussed at length over and over

We made our choices. I am happy with my choice. You can try to scare me but, it won't work.

[OzarkDem]

20. No it hasn't

it has been swept under the rug. You may be willing to give up your economic future, but the rest of us don't feel the same way.

[Mezzo]

33. wow. "Get over it"

sounds right up the alley of the infamous 2000 Republican meme. I am curious if you'd say the same thing if the superdelegates all, or even mostly, endorsed her.

[OzarkDem]

37. Losing Social Security

isn't anything to "get over". Voters shouldn't behave like livestock, they need to think and ask questions.

[miceelf]

18. No one "knows" this

Because it isn't true.

[jackson_dem]

21. It is in his book

He says that DLC idea is a good idea, although he doesn't give due credit to the DLC for coming up with it.

[OzarkDem]

22. Wonder how many of his supporters know it

Explains all the cash he's getting from Goldman Sachs.

[jackson_dem]

24. He is clever

He avoids taking stands except on the most obvious of Democratic issues in his book but he always has something for everyone to latch onto and derive "hope" that he agrees with them. The DLC supplement thing is mentioned in passing but I am sure his target audience "got it".

[cloudythescribbler]

52. I remember his saying CLEARLY the contrary in the TV debates

He has proposed taxing at least SOME of the income above the $97,5 cap to make up for the deficit WITHOUT raising retirement age or curtailing benefits. Could you at LEAST supply links that suggest he maintains a contrary position?

[OzarkDem]

1. It sure got really quiet in here

[susankh4]

4. One of my major concerns!

But then, I never was for voting in Obama without Hillary.

He would have made a good VP I think. But, now that all this "fame" has gone to his head.... he thinks he knows enough to run the country.

How could he want to privatize Social Security? That's just criminal! (no wonder the Repugs like him so much.)

[ashling]

27. The picture on your rally poster

How old is that?

I ask because it looks like it is from the early 90s.

[susankh4]

43. I don't know. ....

I didn't put this poster together. I'm just circulating it... and attending, of course.

[ashling]

51. My wife arranged a reception

for her just after the 1992 election. She wore her hair like that then (remember how the media went into paroxysms every time she changed her hair?)

Its interesting that they would use a 15 year old image of her for a rally poster for this campaign. Now, that was a Hillary that we could have all gotten behind. As the old song saus, "time changes everything."

[ClintonTyree]

7. Don't make them concentrate on issues.....

it's all about "hope', "change" and "charisma". Issues have no place in this debate, dammit! They BELIEVE in Obama, and by Jove that's all that matters! :sarcasm:

You're raining on the Obamatons Potomac parade, and it's just not fair, you old meanie! ;)

[miceelf]

19. That's because

You're out and out lying. You claimed he wants to privatize social security. You were shown a link to his policy position that he does NOT want to privatize social security. You've provided no evidence that he does, other than your lies.

[Wesin04]

38. I'd like to hear him

He needs to be asked in public, on the record during a debate. There is a big difference in having advisors write something on a website, and have him articulate his plans verbally. This is where the media has fallen down (well, one way) on their jobs. If a candidate can explain his policy, I have a good idea that he may really understand it. Otherwise, its advisors doing the articulating and that doesn't give me comfort. I'm a senior with two adult sons. I'd like to know what he plans to do about SS. It's important to me, as are quite a few other things. I take this race seriously and I'm afraid, don't have a lot of time to hope things will change, and its very immature to tell someone to "get over" their very real concerns. Does your candidate feel this way?

[Enrique]

10. he's against it

at one time, he appeared relatively open to all options, but he has lately been clearly against privatization.

[jackson_dem]

13. You mean before he began running for president?

He said different things a year ago. His current rhetoric doesn't match his record. Can we trust him? Let's compare that to Hillary's record on Social Security.

[Enrique]

47. I trust Hillary more on it

but the honest answer to the question is that he's against privatizing social security.

He once said some things that made him sound relatively open to it, but he has been very clearly against it since running for president.

[ashling]

57. So you're going to call into question every change

that one or the other of them has articulated? I don't think Hillary can stand that scrutiny either.

[OzarkDem]

15. Got proof?

His economic advisors support it.

And don't forget, his biggest donors and bundlers are from Wall Street. Don't you think they're expecting something in return for their investment?

[lligrd]

12. My Hope With Obama, Already Dashed By Hillary

is that he seems willing to listen to constituents and is secure enough to change his mind when reason dictates it. I'd prefer someone who got everything right the first time but we don't have that option, do we? At least, I know I don't. Call it voting for hope, the hope that Obama might actually listen to the people for a change. Hillary has already proven that once she makes a wrong decision no amount of proof can change her mind. Don't they have a term for that?

[jackson_dem]

16. "I was wrong"

Words you will never hear from St. Obama.

Hillary has changed her mind on the big issue of Iraq. She isn't closed-minded. She is also open about her mistakes while some other politicians on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue act as if they never made a mistake.

[lligrd]

23. Huh? When Has Hillary Ever Admitted Being

wrong about the IWR. She hasn't. She claims she was misled. I wasn't. Do you expect me to believe she was really that stupid? If so, why would I vote for an idiot?

[OzarkDem]

17. Don't sell yourself so cheaply

Make him answer some difficult questions. He is not what he seems and has no real background to prove he would place the needs of people ahead of his donors.

[lligrd]

25. He Has No Background And Yet You Know He Is Not What

he seems? Are you a psychic or what? I prefer the old American system of innocent until proven guilty. Hillary is in the proven column.

[OzarkDem]

26. Proven what?

Her husband was president during one of the biggest economic expansions in US history. That proves a lot.

[lligrd]

29. Her Husband Is Not Running

and I think a few of our problems today stem from some of his policies. But I was referring to her votes for the IWR, the Patriot Act etc., and her refusal to acknowledge them as mistakes, as proof.

Why do you never answer the question as to how you support those votes?

[OzarkDem]

32. She learned from his experiences

and has said those experiences will play a part in her own administration.

[cooolandrew]

28. The party policy has been to maintain it and that's what counts.

[JustinL]

30. from his website

"Obama is committed to ensuring Social Security is solvent and viable for the American people, now and in the future. Obama will be honest with the American people about the long-term solvency of Social Security and the ways we can address the shortfall. Obama will protect Social Security benefits for current and future beneficiaries alike. And he does not believe it is necessary or fair to hardworking seniors to raise the retirement age. Obama is strongly opposed to privatizing Social Security.

Obama believes that the first place to look for ways to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Currently, the Social Security payroll tax applies to only the first $97,500 a worker makes. Obama supports increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security and he will work with Congress and the American people to choose a payroll tax reform package that will keep Social Security solvent for at least the next half century."

link

[OzarkDem]

31. But does he also support a private "option" for SS

That is what he has spoken of in the past and, like his problems with health care reform, creates an iherent flaw in his plan that dooms it to failure.

Just as you can't have universal health insurance reform when everyone doesn't participate, you can't have a private option to Social Security without taking money out of the SS system and reducing its long term health.

These are very slick conservative proposals, like Bush's Clear Skies program and other BS, they are programs that appear good until you take a close look at them. They're designed by people who think government programs are inherently bad and market solutions are the holy grail. They're not.

[JustinL]

36. see post #35

From the first excerpt I posted, it looks like he supports a private supplement to SS rather than a private substitute for SS.

[OzarkDem]

39. Just as bad

Creating the "supplement" takes trillions of dollars out of SS, effectively killing it. Same thing as health care reform that doesn't cover everyone - the burden of the cost of uninsured kills the whole plan.

Clever, eh? He learned that from the GOP.

[JustinL]

42. read the last sentence again

Take the (Bush) Administration's attempt to privatize Social Security. The Administration argues that the stock market can provide individuals a better return on investment, and in the aggregate at least they are right; historically, the market outperforms Social Security's cost-of-living adjustments. But the individual investment decisions will always produce winners and losers--those who bought Microsoft early and those who bought Enron late. What would the Ownership Society do with the losers? Unless we're willing to see seniors starve on the street, we're going to have to cover their retirement expenses one way or another--and since we don't know in advance which of us will be losers, it makes sense for all of us to chip in to a pool that gives us at least some guaranteed income in our golden years. That doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage individuals to pursue higher-risk, higher-return investment strategies. They should. It just means that they should do so with savings other than those put into Social Security.

How is that taking money out of Social Security?

In fact, Obama has repeatedly said that he wants to raise the taxable earnings cap, which would increase funding for Social Security.

[OzarkDem]

44. That's why we have IRA's and 401 K's

So whats the need to reform?

[JustinL]

35. from his book

pg. 179:

Take the (Bush) Administration's attempt to privatize Social Security. The Administration argues that the stock market can provide individuals a better return on investment, and in the aggregate at least they are right; historically, the market outperforms Social Security's cost-of-living adjustments. But the individual investment decisions will always produce winners and losers--those who bought Microsoft early and those who bought Enron late. What would the Ownership Society do with the losers? Unless we're willing to see seniors starve on the street, we're going to have to cover their retirement expenses one way or another--and since we don't know in advance which of us will be losers, it makes sense for all of us to chip in to a pool that gives us at least some guaranteed income in our golden years. That doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage individuals to pursue higher-risk, higher-return investment strategies. They should. It just means that they should do so with savings other than those put into Social Security.

pg. 182-183:

And if Americans are going to depend on defined-contribution plans like 401(k)s to supplement Social Security, then the government should step in to make them more broadly available to all Americans and more effective in encouraging savings. Former Clinton economic adviser Gene Sperling has suggested the creation of a universal 401(k), in which the government would match contributions made into a new retirement account by low- and moderate-income families. Other experts have suggested the simple (and cost-free) step of having employees automatically enroll their employees in their 401(k) plans at the maximum allowable level; people could still choose to contribute less than the maximum or not participate at all, but evidence shows that by changing the default rule, employee participation rates go up dramatically. As a complement to Social Security, we should take the best and most affordable of these ideas and begin moving toward a beefed-up, universally available pension system that not only promotes savings but gives all Americans a bigger stake in the fruits of globalization.

The Audacity of Hope (Crown Publishers, 2006)

[Common Sense Party]

53. He can't be that ignorant. Microsoft and Enron? Puh-LEEZE.

Nobody is suggesting that private accounts be individual trading accounts where participants can gamble on individual securities.

The private accounts being mentioned are like the funds in the TSP--large, diversified, low-cost index funds.

[miceelf]

55. Holy reading comprehension problem

He is clearly against the Bush plan for privatization. He is clearly saying that people should be encouraged to make investments IN ADDITION TO (not instead of) social security. How you get from that to "privatize social security" involves either a healthy dose of dishonesty or mental illness.

Edited to add, this isn't directed at Justin, but at those who insist on misreading the quotes produced.

[rox63]

41. Bullshit!

I just heard him talking on the teevee last night about preserving Social Security. He does not favor any sort of privatization. He does favor raising the cap on income subject to payroll taxes, as a way to strengthen social security.

[OzarkDem]

45. Read his book

and listen to his economic advisors. He's talked about it in the past. He's certainly not going to make a big noise about it in this election. He'll wait til later.

But there's already enough information out there to show how he really feels about the issue.

[Enrique]

48. page 179

he's against privatization

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0507/Whats_on_Obamas_Social_Security_table.html

UPDATE: An (incredulous) Obama aide sends over this passage from page 179 of his book: "Take the Administration’s attempt to privatize Social Security. The Administration argues that the stock market can provide individuals a better return on investment, and in the aggregate at least they are right; historically, the market outperforms Social Security’s cost-of-living adjustments. But individual investment decisions will always produce winners and losers - those who bought Microsoft early and those who bought Enron late. What would the Ownership Society do with the losers? Unless we’re willing to see seniors starve on the street, we’re going to have to cover their retirement expenses one way or another™and since we don’t know in advance which of us will be losers, it makes sense for all of us to chip in to a pool that gives us at least some guaranteed income in our golden years. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t encourage individuals to pursue higher-risk, higher-return investment strategies. They should. It just means that they should do so with savings other than those put into Social Security."

[rox63]

50. Thank you for standing up for the truth n/t

[OzarkDem]

54. So why is he referring to the Social Security "crisis"

Obama constantly refers to the need to change Social Security, an argument often made by conservatives who want to privatize it.

Its not in crisis and to say so encourages those who want to privatize.

Obama has gone back and forth on the issue and in typical fashion, its impossible to nail him down on it. He talks a good game about protecting it at one time, then later talks about how "everything should be on the table". He's a shape shifter, he changes constantly and its an issue he's taken opposing positions on at different times.

So the fact that he keeps calling it a "crisis" says something about what's really on his mind.

[miceelf]

56. Translation

"I know you just refuted my last three lies about Obama, but how about this new one, eh? Got an answer for THAT one???'

[jackson_dem]

58. He, like the DLC, also spoke of having private accounts to supplement SS in his book

Supplement, not replace, but when the DLC says it progressive go nuts.

[stray cat]

49. In the debate he wants to raise the cap to fund SS