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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:03 AM
Original message
Huff Po: Obama (Finally) Putting Attack on NAFTA Front & Center?
Obama (Finally) Putting Attack On NAFTA Front and Center?

Posted February 12, 2008 | 11:15 PM (EST)

From Barack Obama's victory speech tonight:
"It's a game where trade deals, like NAFTA, ship jobs overseas and force parents to compete with their teenagers to work for minimum wages at the local fast-food joint or at Wal-Mart. It's what happens when the American worker doesn't have a voice at the negotiating table, when leaders change their positions on trade with the politics of the moment, and that is why we need a president who will listen not just to Wall Street, but to Main Street, a president who will stand with workers not just when it's easy, but when it's hard, and that's the kind of president I intend to be when I'm president of the United States of America."

I've been troubled by some of Obama's votes on trade, and I've made no bones about that. But this rhetoric is encouraging.

As I have written, it's good politics for Obama to put our lobbyist-written trade policy on trial in states like Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania. But that' s not why I am encouraged. I am encouraged because it is good for the country for a major candidate to put this issue at the center of the debate in the stretch run of the nominating process.

Since Edwards left the race, we haven't had anyone really focusing on this issue on the Democratic side. But it looks like that may be changing. And whoever you are for in this race, if you are a progressive, you will agree that's a good thing, indeed. With polls showing Americans are desperate for a departure from our current trade policy, getting this issue into the debate is an important step.

-snip

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/obama-finally-putting-a_b_86346.html

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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not a strong issue for Obama
He doesn't have much to run on with regard to trade and jobs. Sounds like he's trying to warm up to run in Ohio but I don't think he's going to get any traction with that issues.

He'll have to find another one.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. What?! and the Pro-NAFTA Clinton's do? nt
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. the Clintons BROUGHT us NAFTA! It is a very good issue for him.
Many MANY jobs have been lost due to Nafta here in the midwest. The effects of Nafta enacted under clinton brought us the economic nightmare middle class america is now facing. It took years for its full effect to come to fruition and here we are.

He needs to pound this.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. we have 2 candidates to chose from: One is a DLC Leader which strongly embraces
free trade and the other has opted to take a shift against free trade. This ANTI-NAFTA talk warms the conkles of my heart and is reminiscent of Edwards.
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. As Opposed To Hillary...
Whose HUSBAND gave us NAFTA. Some strength of position there.

:eyes:
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. No he didn't
But unions in Ohio already know that, so it won' sell up here.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. NAFTA was cooked up by Clinton's Godfather (and I mean that in the crime family sense)
and then cheerleaded and enacted into law by Bill Clinton.

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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. ....`
Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 09:09 AM by cooolandrew
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Can someone tell me exactly how NAFTA is responsible for jobs leaving the country?
Has anyone here ever read the agreement? Most of our jobs in manufacturing were outsourced to India and China, Tiwan etc. How does NAFTA cause this? What am I missing? Or is this just another slime at Clinton by the media. I suggest a lot of us do some reading. NAFTA gets the blame for a lot of shit that just ain't true. Here is what I find about NAFTA:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Implementation of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) began on January 1, 1994. This agreement will remove most barriers to trade and investment among the United States, Canada, and Mexico.

Under the NAFTA, all non-tariff barriers to agricultural trade between the United States and Mexico were eliminated. In addition, many tariffs were eliminated immediately, with others being phased out over periods of 5 to 15 years. This allowed for an orderly adjustment to free trade with Mexico, with full implementation beginning January 1, 2008.

The agricultural provisions of the U.S.-Canada Free Trade Agreement, in effect since 1989, were incorporated into the NAFTA. Under these provisions, all tariffs affecting agricultural trade between the United States and Canada, with a few exceptions for items covered by tariff-rate quotas, were removed by January 1, 1998.

Mexico and Canada reached a separate bilateral NAFTA agreement on market access for agricultural products. The Mexican-Canadian agreement eliminated most tariffs either immediately or over 5, 10, or 15 years. Tariffs between the two countries affecting trade in dairy, poultry, eggs, and sugar are maintained.

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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. The way I understand it is imports have no tax & so Ameircan good can't compete with cheap imports.
Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 09:16 AM by cooolandrew
To be fair to Clinton it was Bush senior who drafted the legislation, bill signed it on the cusp of his presidency.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. It was and continues to be very very beneficial to corporations. The DLC in action! nt
Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 09:18 AM by Windy
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Please read up a bit before making a comment like that! Link provided
many more links are out there with an EASY google search!

This is not "just another unfounded clinton attack".


http://www.dougdowd.org/NewFiles/articles/cypherhi.html
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. OBAMA: "It's a game where trade deals, like NAFTA, ship jobs overseas"
I can give you an example with Mexico, however:

I used (before the stolen election of 2004) to won a clothing boutique which I opened in 1987. During the first couple years the clothing (young contemporary designers) was all made in the US. Then there was a shift, where manufacturers made the items in Mexico. This allowed for larger profit for them but it also created a problem in that larger quantities of goods had to be manufactured to keep costs down, so the lines I carried ended up mass producing cheaper goods but the extra quantities ended up in discount stores (TJ MAX, Marshalls, Filenes). I literally would find goods that I purchased wholesale selling at 1/3 of the price I paid in these discount stores. When I opened my store small business like mine were flourishing but that climate changed with free trade.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Here's NAFTA in a nutshell
American textile mills and some other industries get to move their plants to Mexico.

American agribusiness gets to sell its products in Mexico and keep crop subsidies; Mexico only gets to subsidize farmers rather than crops (HUGE difference... see The Future of Food for why).

This was that "great sucking sound" that Perot talked about: several American industries were wiped out over the course of 5 years. Similarly, Mexican agriculture was devastated. The result? Mexican immigrants flock over the border because their farms are no longer tenable, where they are met by newly-underemployed Americans and compete for jobs. Tempers flare. Similarly, the new mills and factories in Mexico are hiring mostly immigrant Central Americans (Mexico, too, has an illegal immigration problem).

The last remaining chip is trucking reciprocity, which nominally started on January 1 and will probably factually start this summer.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Both Mexico and Canada get much of their raw materials from Oversees
Whereas, pre-NAFTA, the tariff enforcements would have made that infeasible.

I asked a local lumber-yard where they got their Brazilian cherry flooring from. They said the trees were sent to China where they were milled into floor-boards and then back to Canada for packaging and then shipped to US. Apparently the labor costs of milling in China and lack of tariffs make it feasible to ship it around the world.


:shrug:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Not only is it bad for the environment but it is a National Security issue:
I posted this below but I'll repost it again:

The National Security Implications of "Free" Trade

All we hear about are the supposed benefits of this corporate written trade policy, even though those benefits are often highly questionable or just plain fabricated. But we never hear about how "free" trade policy is now being used not only to destroy America's job base, but to help arm what could be one of America's most dangerous military competitors (we barely hear it from the "strategic class" of foreign policy elites in D.C., we don't even hear it from the Bush neoncons, who purport to be serious hawks, but whose silence on this issue shows they are hawks only when it doesn't offend their corporate benefactors). That should concern not only the workers who have been displaced by corporate-written trade policies, but every single American who is interested in the long-term security of this country.

-snip
http://www.davidsirota.com/2005/12/national-security-implications-of-free.html

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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. NAFTA and other "free trade" policies have eviscerated my small town...
I see it first hand. One of our best companies was a Bose plant, making speakers. One of my friend's wives got excited a few years back because she "got to go to mexico" to train them. What she later found out was that she was training the person who took her job. The Bose plant closed its doors and went to Mexico.

We lost jobs, a tax base, citizens, property values, and money for schools.

That's what NAFTA does.

Fucking educate yourself or move to a community that relies on light manufacturing in order to do so.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. NAFTA is like a big junk box
Everything is called NAFTA. Every inadvisable, or bone-headed, or unworkable economic decision made in the past 15 years is now called "NAFTA" and hung around the neck of Evil Bill. Yet a big chunk of the Democratic Party and nearly the entire Republican party fought for it.

And every economic problem we have is blamed on NAFTA. I am surprised that 9-11 isn't being blamed on it. (Oh, wait, there's a lot of JBS stuff that's been posted about BCCI that actually has made that link.)

NAFTA was not a good policy, and Bill Clinton was foolish to have signed on to it. But like the DLC, the Trilateral Commission, the Prieur de Sion, and the Illuminati, it's a catch-all. A good cocktail-party brawler can work up a head of rage and invoke organized crime, lost jobs, and dead babies within about three minutes talking about NAFTA.

I'd personally like to see more objective information about the effects of NAFTA, but I have been informed (that is, ranted at) that anything that doesn't link it to economic chaos and dead babies is all just DLC lies. Still, if you are aware of anything like this, please let me know. It's a little tough to be critical of a law and yet distrust its critics.

--p!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. There are a couple examples here (Bose speaker plant, clothing) but if you care
to find more-google is your friend:

Here is a study on corn

http://ase.tufts.edu/gdae/Pubs/wp/03-06-NAFTACorn.PDF
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Google ISN'T anyone's friend, sadly
It's nearly impossible to do research on highly-charged subjects -- like NAFTA. Nearly all the stuff I've found is propaganda from either side. Actual research is very tough to find. And being able to tell what's the fault of NAFTA and what's the fault of other policies is like reading hieroglyphics.

Thanks for the link to the PDF -- it looks pretty good. Agricultural issues are of special concern to me as well -- if you check out the Energy/Enviro forum, we talk about this a lot, though the Clinton/Obama wars seldom intrude there.

--p!
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. So what will he do about it?
It's encouraging to hear someone on the national stage speaking out about it, but what does he plan to do to address it? What's the policy proposal that goes hand in glove with what he's saying on the stump?

I read this article, but I didn't see it. Sirota himself says, "But this rhetoric is encouraging." And right now it's just that - rhetoric.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. Tell me..
WHAT Hillary had to do with NAFTA?
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. DLC Embrace of Free Trade:
DLC | Blueprint Magazine | February 7, 2001
The Free Trade Area of the Americas: Why the United States Must Take the Lead
By Jenny Bates

Exactly three months after moving into the White House, the new president will face one of the biggest foreign policy challenges -- and opportunities -- of his term. In April 2001, at the Summit of the Americas in Quebec, he can assert U.S. leadership in the creation of a Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) -- a $10 trillion common market of 800 million people stretching from the Bering Strait to Tierra del Fuego. By taking the lead at a critical moment in the FTAA's formation, the president can ensure that it reflects U.S. interests and values while locking in Latin America's movement toward democracy and economic reforms. Failure to lead the way into this enormous and unprecedented free market, furthermore, would be costly: The United States could be shut out of Latin American markets, regional protectionism would rise, and the leadership vacuum would be filled by another powerful player such as Brazil.

Preparations for the FTAA -- which will reduce barriers to trade, spurring competition and economic growth throughout the hemisphere -- have been under way since 1994, and formal negotiations were launched in 1998. And while the U.S. government has publicly supported the process, the administration's attention has mostly been elsewhere as working groups did the initial yeomanship of trade talks. Now, however, the momentum to create this vast new trade area is entering its crucial final phase. Over the next two or three years, the most important decisions will be made. If the result is to be favorable to the United States, both economically and politically, White House leadership is urgently called for. As the largest player in the region, the United States cannot afford to sit on the sidelines.

There are other reasons why the FTAA should be a top priority for the new president. Locking in the economic reforms among Latin American economies of the past two decades, for example, will spur continued growth and reinforce pressure for political reform. Such a commitment will reduce risk for investors, spur inflows of much-needed foreign capital, and promote development. Such economic liberalization can also challenge powerful, entrenched interests and liberate opposition forces to push for democratic change. Indeed, in most countries in the region, economic reform has gone hand-in-hand with progress on the political front. According to a Freedom House study, the major economies of Latin America have moved from "unfree" to "free" since the 1970s (though there has been some danger of backsliding in the Andean region recently).

-snip

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=108&subid=206&contentid=2974


AND THEY REMAIN COMMITTED:



http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ka.cfm?kaid=108

In international trade, free trade is an idealized market model, often stated as a political objective, in which trade of goods and services between countries flows unhindered by government-imposed tariff and non-tariff barriers. Economic analysis and nearly all economists support the proposition that free trade is a net gain to both trading partners and that the gains from free trade outweigh the losses.<1> It is opposed by anti-globalization and some labour campaigners due to a variety of perceived problems.

The term is given to economic policies, as well as political parties that support increases in such trade.

Free trade is a concept in economics and government, encompassing:

International trade of goods without tariffs (taxes on imports) or other trade barriers (e.g., quotas on imports)
International trade in services without tariffs or other trade barriers
The absence of trade-distorting policies (such as taxes, subsidies, regulations or laws) that give domestic firms, households or factors of production an advantage over foreign ones
-snip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade

Free trade benefits only the wealthy within countries
Some argue the following:

The wealthy own more corporate equity, which increases in value as companies are able to produce at the lowest cost in the world.
As the world's markets merge into a single global market the number of market-leading companies worldwide drops, with international take-overs of local champions by giant corporations. This process concentrates wealth in fewer corporations.
Free trade replaces low-skilled jobs often done by the poor easier than high-skilled jobs. This implication of the Stolper-Samuelson theorem is challenged on the basis that technology makes offshoring high value-added work feasible and more profitable than moving low-skilled jobs.


According to Ravi Batra's book, The Myth of Free Trade, open trade in the US has resulted in replacement of manufacturing jobs for service jobs, which pay less on average. The product trade deficit results in more investment money flowing into the US as a trade-off. This investment money mostly ends up with wealthy investors and owners; and "trickle down" is not sufficient to compensate for the loss of manufacturing jobs and wagers. After all, if a wealthy person receives money from such investments, they may spend some on foreign cars and foreign trips, which is not going to go back into the US economy. According to Batra's research, even though free trade may increase GNP, the increases do not flow to rank-and-file workers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade_debate


The National Security Implications of "Free" Trade

All we hear about are the supposed benefits of this corporate written trade policy, even though those benefits are often highly questionable or just plain fabricated. But we never hear about how "free" trade policy is now being used not only to destroy America's job base, but to help arm what could be one of America's most dangerous military competitors (we barely hear it from the "strategic class" of foreign policy elites in D.C., we don't even hear it from the Bush neoncons, who purport to be serious hawks, but whose silence on this issue shows they are hawks only when it doesn't offend their corporate benefactors). That should concern not only the workers who have been displaced by corporate-written trade policies, but every single American who is interested in the long-term security of this country.

-snip
http://www.davidsirota.com/2005/12/national-security-implications-of-free.html

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. Mexican workers passionate about repealing NAFTA:
special thanks to Joanne98 who just posted this:


NAFTA: Corporate Globalization: Standing at the End of the Road


Standing at the end of Avenida Madero (Madero Avenue) on the last day of January 2008, a stone throw from the Zócalo or City Center of Mexico City, I am swept along in a sea of thousands of farmers and laborers, carrying signs and banners. Streaming from the historic statue of the Angel of Independence, symbolically setting fire to a decrepit tractor, one hundred and fifty thousand small farmers, teachers, workers, and neighborhood activists are marching to repeal the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), and end the illegal “dumping” by Cargill, ADM, and Monsanto of billions of dollars of taxpayer subsidized U.S. agricultural crops–beans, rice, sugar, powdered milk, soybeans, and genetically engineered corn–onto the Mexican market.

NAFTA, pushed through in Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. in 1994 over the opposition of the majority of North Americans, is literally driving Mexico’s thirty million small farmers and villagers off the land and into the slums of Mexico City, Guadalajara, Monterrey, Tijuana, Juarez, and other cities; or else, following the path of twelve million others before them, across the increasingly dangerous border into the United States to find work. Rural villages in Mexico have become literal economic ghost towns of women, children, and the elderly. In some municipalities, 80-90% of the men and boys are gone, increasingly joined by the young women.

A dark-skinned peasant woman, wearing her kitchen apron, approaches me. I stand out in the crowd, an obvious gringo with my Code Pink anti-war T-shirt and my Organic Consumers Association baseball cap. The farm woman patiently explains to me how NAFTA has broken up her family. Her two sons and her daughter, like millions of other jovenes (young people), she explains, desperate for a living wage, did not want to leave their community or abandon their families, but they had no choice. And now, with the militarized border, so-called illegal aliens, like her children, can no longer take the risk of coming back home to visit. Her sons and daughter, like most other immigrants, send back remesas (money) to help support their families. This twenty-four billion dollar annual lifeline is the only thing standing between Mexico¹s rural population and utter poverty.

Moving up behind the farmers, flanked by banners protesting the imminent sell-off of Mexico’s publicly owned electricity and oil industries, union workers and students fill the massive square in front of the National Palace. Mexican workers, whose minimum wage is 1/12 that of the U.S., are already suffering from high prices for electricity and gasoline. But once U.S. and European corporations take over the petroleum and electricity sectors, prices will inevitably skyrocket.

Passionate speakers from the podium call for a repeal of NAFTA and the restoration of food and energy sovereignty, but everyone knows that Big Business and Agribusiness call the shots in Mexico City, Ottawa, and Washington. Short of a miracle, rural and urban poverty will increase, as will the power and obscene wealth of the industrial agriculture, oil, and utilities multinationals. In July 2006 Mexicans launched an impressive though ultimately abortive ballot box revolution, turning out in droves for the anti-NAFTA presidential candidate, Manuel López Obrador, from the left-of-center PRD (Party of Democratic Revolution). Although Obrador won the popular vote, according to reliable exit polls and election experts, in a U.S.-style electronic vote theft, the elections were stolen, and Felipe Calderón, a pro-NAFTA corporatist was installed as President. As a Mexican activist friend reminds me today, we are at the end of the road for polite protest. Nothing short of a second Mexican (and American) revolution will save us.

Corporate globalization, savagely embodied by NAFTA
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/12/6994 /

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x337775


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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
23. hope it's true, but could just be pandering for OH
Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 09:46 AM by JCMach1
WI and PA votes
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. Here is Obama's policy from his site: "Fight for Fair Trade"
NOW BEFORE CLINTON SUPPORTERS JUMP ON THE LACK OF DETAIL, REMEMBER THAT THE DLC HAS EMBRACED FREE TRADE (I POSTED ARTICLES FROM THE DLC SITE ABOVE). IT'S DEFINITELY A START THAT HE HAS SPOKEN PUBLIC AGAINST FREE TRADE AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO QUESTION THIS POLICY:

Trade
Obama believes that trade with foreign nations should strengthen the American economy and create more American jobs. He will stand firm against agreements that undermine our economic security.

Fight for Fair Trade: Obama will fight for a trade policy that opens up foreign markets to support good American jobs. He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama will also pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports.

Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama believes that NAFTA and its potential were oversold to the American people. Obama will work with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American workers.

Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama would update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
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