TornadoTN
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:48 AM
Original message |
So did last nights states "not count" to Hillary? Or did they not get the memo? |
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I find it very interesting that a candidate who seeks to unite this country from the last 8 years of turmoil would blatantly ignore the events of yesterday in her "speech" last evening. Not once did I hear her congratulate Senator Obama on his wins, which would have been the gracious thing to do. Not once did I hear her thank the people of VA, MD and DC for supporting her. The only thing I heard was pandering to the crowd in Texas where (along with Ohio) she has staked the diminishing prospect of her Presidential aspirations. If I were a voter in the states who chose yesterday, I would be insulted by the fact that my candidate refuses to acknowledge me even if she loses in my state. Obama lost in Tennessee and we still got a thank you from Senator Obama for supporting him despite of the loss. Hillary is a very sore loser. She refuses to even acknowledge that there were primaries yesterday.
I'm always struck by one thing that I don't think she has really appreciated yet, when Hillary speaks, it's always "I and you". She separates herself from her supporters, 'you need to vote for me so I can fix the economy, so I can lead the nation, so I can get you health care, because I'm ready on day one.' Obama is always all about we, 'we have a chance to change this nation, we can fix the problems we have, we have to work together to fix education and health care, and we have to work to find solutions to our addiction to foreign oil.'
She paints a picture where the government does things for you, Obama paints a picture where you have to help the country help you, and Obama's message appeals more to Americans, who love their country and want to help, who want to be involved.
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Dogmudgeon
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message |
1. Was there a memo from Obama HQ? |
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That's the third complaint in about 20 minutes I've seen about Hillary not groveling before Zod Obama to proffer congratulations.
Half of your article is cut-and-paste from George Lakoff's recent HuffPo article "reframing" Obama as a kind of secular Jesus. You really need to learn how to write your own stuff.
You guys amaze me -- you whine when you WIN!
--p!
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TornadoTN
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. Cut and paste? Really? Care to show me where I cut and paste it ? |
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Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 09:56 AM by TornadoTN
Must be a tough morning for you after all. Oh right, there was nothing of substance going on yesterday in the world of Hillary and her supporters.
Oh, and please show me that I cut and paste this. I really -really- would like to know if I have a psychic connection with someone else out there. Also, care to dispute any of what I supposedly "cut and pasted"? Don't worry, I won't hold you to it.
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liberalhistorian
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
8. Being gracious to an opponent who wins |
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is not groveling; she didn't even have the courtesy to make the standard "I congratulate my opponent on his win", period, statement.
And making some points about the way she comes across is not whining, it's telling the truth. But I guess when Hillary supporters whine, as they've been doing endlessly lately, it's okay.
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RichGirl
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
13. How gracious was Obama after Florida. |
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Oh, I remember what he said...no delegates, it doesn't count. The two million democrats that came out to vote that day don't count, and certainly not necessary to congratulate Clinton for getting more votes that anyone else both dem and rep.
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Independent-Voter
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. God damn - Florida's delegates will not be seated you dumb fuck! |
TornadoTN
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:06 AM
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16. Considering they had all agreed on the rules beforehand.... |
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Being gracious would be accepting the ground rules that were set well in advance of the Primaries. Too bad Hillary supporters fail to acknowledge that accepting a rule doesn't mean you can break it whenever and wherever you wish as long as it fits your needs.
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GoldieAZ49
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
19. Right! Hillary goes to Florida for a "Victory Rally" in an uncontested state |
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but cannot acknowledge Obama's win in 3 states.
She was spanked in all three, they couldn't come up with any kind of SPIN for the huge defeat so they pretend it didn't happen.
How many threads were there over the "SNUB" where Hillary supporters made a mountain out of NOTHING!
Hillary not only SNUBBED Obamas win last night, but all the workers for her campaign in those three states.
I hope the people in Texas and Ohio see it for what it is, an ungrateful candidate that is not worth working for.
The problem isn't with the organizers or supporters or voters, the problem is with the candidate.
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ginnyinWI
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
9. I can't let this accusation stand, sorry. |
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I have responded with comments about her ignoring Obama's wins. I'm not any kind of operative or anything and certainly have received no "memos".
I'm a Midwesterner, and we really value polite and respectful behavior. We don't enjoy getting in everybody's face, and we don't like rudeness. I just noticed it when Hillary's entire speech was carried on MSNBC. No congrats to Obama-- and it annoyed me.
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TornadoTN
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
17. I didn't even want a congrats to Obama, just to the people who voted in general! |
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There wasn't even a reference to the primaries that were held yesterday, it was all about Texas! It was as if VA, MD and DC were irrelevant or didn't exist.
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L0oniX
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message |
2. Excellent observation. I -Hillary ...We -Obama. n/t |
ginnyinWI
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:54 AM
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3. it's a very stark contrast. |
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He also has said in his speeches that he wouldn't be where he is today without "all of you". And speaks about not being able to do anything in Washington without having the people behind him.
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goodhue
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:54 AM
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5. Kind of crappy that she won't even reference her supporters in VA, MD, & DC |
TwilightGardener
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
12. Yes, all those volunteers--classless to ignore them--but that's what she does. |
liberalhistorian
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:55 AM
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6. Excellent points and I think you've hit on a couple of |
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major reasons why she isn't doing nearly as well as she'd thought. It appears that she's being a sore loser; she and her supporters really did think they had it all sewed up before it even began. I mean, how dare anyone else run against her and get in her way and how dare people vote for anyone but her. That kind of entitlement attitude coupled with her running on her "inevitability" as the nominee has really turned a lot of people off. And I agree, she was very ungracious last night and it's always about her.
Another thing is that I think she and her campaign grossly underestimated the size, strength and breadth of those who are anti-war and angry at the current Iraq policy, and the depth of their anger. She has never ever apologized for her IWR vote or even acknowledged in any way that it was wrong and that she was wrong. She has voted for every single war funding bill put before the senate, not just the IWR. She has done nothing to stop the stripping of constitutional rights, has been in favor of the PATRIOT Act, among many, many other such examples. And she's really underestimated the anger over that.
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TornadoTN
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
10. Agreed - her attempts at rationalizing her vote has done nothing but hurt |
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I don't know anyone who is even moderately informed on the issues that was impressed with any of her answers to the IWR issue. She's always triangulated on issues and it's coming back to bite her. People want someone who is going to take firm stances on issues and then negotiate from their position. Not wait until everyone else has spoken and then formulate their plan based on the most politically expedient position at that time.
Beyond that, I think it's disingenious of her to not acknowledge the fact that there are plenty of states out there who have chosen not to support her in the Primary. She's taken them for granted because they expect that they will vote for her anyway when she is crowned. That's a serious miscalculation.
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tyne
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message |
7. Non-existent concession |
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speech aside, think about it. Her only choice is to concentrate and focus like a laser-beam on TX and Ohio.
It's the strategy (because it's the only one) anyone in her position would choose.
Give 'er a break. Everyone in the room last night knew she lost big. No need to give light to it.
Plus, as far as not thanking her staff and volunteers in those states she lost? It's possible that she contacted them by phone or something. There really weren't that many.
Let's not focus on Hillary and/or kick her when she's down.
Obama's moved on to McCain. Good strategy.
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TornadoTN
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
14. I have some serious issues with that strategy though |
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Even if it was a momentary comment about the tough fight and the long road, she could have at least acknowledged that people turned out to support her. Not only that, she should have referenced something to the effect of no matter what, its great to see people turning out to vote in such a crucial election. She didn't have to congratulate Obama - just something to make the people who did support her not feel like she thought they were unimportant.
Yes, Texas and Ohio are where her candidacy rests at this point. Beyond that, it could be in the courts and god help us all if it gets to that. I think her attitude last night reflects some of what is so terribly wrong with her campaign and her candidacy. They thought they were the chosen ones and would have this thing in the bag early.
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tyne
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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that's who she is. That's what she does. It's why so many people that have either worked for her or have been around her don't support her campaign.
No amount of focusing on it will change her. Her supporters don't pay attention to that side of her character.
Obama has moved on to Wisconsin and McCain.
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TwilightGardener
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:01 AM
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11. Once she's done with a state, she's done. It's over, forgotten, blown off as if |
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it didn't exist--if it didn't go her way. The victory laps over Florida, however--now THAT was funny!!!
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Blue_Roses
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Wed Feb-13-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message |
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needed to hear to understand why I have been so indecisive on a candidate. I like both, but have been leaning Obama. We've heard the same old Washington mantra that we take verbatim--such as Hillary--but what really resonates is change and the "we". Your post would be an excellent campaign ad. It makes the difference crystal clear:)
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Dogmudgeon
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Wed Feb-13-08 11:03 AM
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21. Well, she better never break wind |
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