So now Obama supporters have sacrificed John Edwards at the altar of St. Obama

[jlake]

Really sad that a GOOD MAN bringing up HONEST QUESTIONS and Concerns earns him the
dubious titles of "twinkie" "gutless" etc.

I am amazed at the lengths Obama supporters are willing to go to defend a man who hasn't accomplished anything of note and has only been on the national stage for 2 years.

How much blood does St. Obama need?

[Egnever]

1. Well that was a waste of a post

2 left today?

[jlake]

3. I have never posted more than 3 in day, so I'm not worried.

[Hoof Hearted]

196. Psst. . .. Hey jlake, it's not St. Obama - you're thinking too small, it's

[jlake]

199. LOL I'm thinking their new motto should be "Popebama: He campaigns for our sins"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MoonRiver]

222. Now all he needs is a Popebamamobile!

:D

[niceypoo]

188. Well that took a lot of thought....

...need an ice pack on your head now?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

192. Why was that a waste of a post?

Many here happen to agree. Anyone who dares not ot kiss Obama's ass is thrown under the bus - no matter how much of a hero they were - all for some person who we all have hardly heard about.

In my opinion - Obama supporters are just being emotional about a candidate instead of using their heads.

[Catherine Vincent]

2. That's just one idiot O supporter. nt

[jlake]

5. Unfortunately, it is not.

[Adelante]

I'm not sacrificing John Edwards

I never liked him in the first place :shrug:

[XemaSab]

16. Word.

n/t

[Kermitt Gribble]

4. I share your disgust. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

6. And St. John is apparently calling Obama a pussy

Which is worse, blowhards like us spewing BS or the actual candidates?

[jlake]

7. You don't know that he actually said that - and what if he did? Do you disagree?

[BeyondGeography]

15. Hell, no...Obama is a total pussy

That was the subtext of much of Edwards' campaign in Iowa, wasn't it? And I trust everything John says.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

177. Like a male co-worker of mine used to say when called one

"I got no problem with that. You are what you eat, after all."

Just quoting the guy. ;)

[saracat]

He did not say that. That was the interpetation of his remarks by the Time reporter.

[BeyondGeography]

23. And here is his non-apology

==I’m sorry. In a live radio interview this week, I used a word I shouldn’t have. The fact that I was conveying other people’s words is no excuse for my lapse in judgment. It won’t happen again. —Mark Halperin==

http://thepage.time.com/2008/02/13/my-apologies/

[saracat]

36. And your point. He doesn't "quote" Edwards. If you had read his peice you would

"know" that.

[NashVegas]

81. Looks Like a Full Apology to Me

Conveying does not equal quoting.

Bush: "we want to transition to an ownership society"
Thomas Frank: "Bush wants people to get rich or get out"

[tnlefty]

150. Apparently, Mark Halperin made the comment and then he

apologized for putting that word in Edwards' mouth.

[Crunchy Frog]

187. Apparently Mark Halperin put pussy in Edwards' mouth.

And he didn't really say it.

[Bicoastal]

8. Um, I'm not sacrificing anybody 'TIL I HEAR AN ACTUAL FUCKING ENDORSEMENT!!

Don't act so smug, you. Most of the quotes about Edwards' Obama skepticism usually mention his Hillary skpeticism one line before or later.

[jlake]

11. See, there you go again - you are willing to sacrifice him if he doesn't go your way.

I am not smug - I am appalled at Obamabots willingness to throw anyone under the bus who hasn't guzzled the Koolaid.

[Bicoastal]

22. You are smugger than Bill Kristol with a new pair of shoes.

You're not contented with twisting Edwards' words around, so you decide to twist mine.

I will respect Edwards' endorsement whichever way he goes, but not unconditionally, obviously--if he HIMSELF called Obama a p*ssy (which he almost certainly wouldn't), fire up the altar to Obaal!

[Kittycat]

9. How can we sacrifice anything we haven't heard directly from him?

Give me a break. :eyes:

[jlake]

12. That hasn't stopped a crop of posts trashing JE

[Donnachaidh]

203. I'd say crop with a capital C were posted, and will probably continue to post

shrill nasty comments about JE. Some to the point of being obsessive. Of course, when the obsession is pointed out, the wailing and gnashing of teeth goes into levels that can damage canine ears. :shrug:

[NMMNG]

10. They'll sacrifice anybody who doesn't fall over and worship Him

It's disgusting. The Unity Candidate has become nothing more than another GWB. You're either with them or against them. And if you're against them may FSM have mercy on your soul.

[griffi94]

47. get back in line

here's yer kool aid...repeat after me...yes we can...yes we can

[NMMNG]

51. No kool aid for me

I don't adapt well to that cult stuff, thank you very much. :hi:

[griffi94]

well if yer not havin any

i think i'll skip too....i'm afraid of the hangover that might be looming if
i partake of the holy obama kool aid:7

[bagrman]

207. How can one cult worshipper call another cult worshipper a cultist,

Don't you two kind of void each other?

[DJ13]

13. Edwards made himself irrelevant

He held off on his endorsement too long to have much of any impact anymore.

Thats not a rip on Edwards's character, just an observation of how things are.

Whether he did that out of real confusion, or trying to get a higher bid is not for me to say.

[jlake]

18. And Edwards staying above the fray means he is "irrelevant"

Everyone doesn't have to endorse to be a good Democrat.

[DJ13]

34. "Edwards staying above the fray means he is "irrelevant" "

If the former Edwards supporters were right, and he was going to endorse someone who came closest to him on the issues (getting concessions to move that person even closer to Edwards positions), then he did his supporters no favors by holding off to near the end of the primaries to endorse.

His value as far as a possible campaigner to whoever he endorses, and the value of his 26 delegates in the swelling delegate totals already amassed, degrade in importance every day he's sat on the fence.

[jlake]

46. Hillary's healthcare is very close to Edwards' Obama's is close to what we have now.

[DJ13]

59. What does that have to do with Edwards making himself irrelevant?

You're just reinforcing the reasons why he shouldnt have held off endorsing someone.

If he really had cared that his positions would become policy in a future administration, he needed to get behind someone before now.

What does he have left to bargain with?

26 delegates?

1 or 2 campaign stops in Ohio or Texas?

Do you really think either Hillary or Obama would revamp major portions of their platforms at this late date just for that?

[jlake]

64. You went off about how Edwards should endorse the person closest to himself.

Just saying Hillary is pretty close in many ways - and Edwards apparently feels Hillary can get elected, and accomplish her agenda....and not so with Obama.

[karynnj]

113. Totally untrue

All the Democratic plans insure universal access to health insurance and eliminate pre-existing conditions as a factor. The difference is mandates - for which there are pros and cons. Obama has spoken of how he will deal with those who do not buy it then need healthcare. HRC has spoken of how they would enforce mandates. Both are vague at this point and either could work.

It is NOTHING like we have now,

[jlake]

114. Obama's plan is NOT Universal Healthcare - do you know what "Universal" Means?

[karynnj]

160. Yes I do , I'm actually quite educated - there is universal ACCESS to healthcare

If you mean that absolutely everyone will have healthcare - HRC's is not universal either. Just because you mandate it doesn't mean it happens - look at auto insurance.

[jlake]

169. The problem with Obama's plan is that it is designed to fail.

We have universal access now - anyone who can afford insurance can buy it.

[Luminous Animal]

176. You mean universal ACCESS to health INSURANCE.

Which is not true if one cannot afford it.

People really need to get their terms straight. No one except Kucinich had or has a health CARE plan. As long as there is private corporations managing access between our money and health care, than the best we will have is a health insurance scheme.

[saracat]

19. He probably doesn't like either candidate, and he wouldn't endorse for self interest. He doesn't

need them. But he may endorse just to further his platform and who is more able and inclined to accomplish it.

[mckeown1128]

14. I as an Obama supporter like and admire Edwards...

I almost choose him to support. I was REALLY torn between him and Obama.


EDWARDS ROCKS!!!

[jlake]

20. Thank you.

[goclark]

83. Edwards is OK in my book

As for the remarks attributed to him, "with friends like those, JE doesn't need any enemies."

[Mags]

17. Why are you surprised? BO followers will trash, put down,

and use the most vile words to anyone that doesn't bow down to BO and for God's sake don't say anything negative about him, cause then they call you a freeper and want you tombstoned.

[jlake]

26. Yes, I know - I just cannot believe the worship over Obama.

I think it has surpassed the Freepers love of Bush.

[griffi94]

52. well

it's certainly getting close to that

[karynnj]

115. Odd that JRE is said to make some unkind comments - and you object to

Obama supporters who take him to task. JRE is wrong and out of line - if he said this he has an enormous ego - He ran for the Presidency after ONE 6 year term in the Senate with no prior public service. If Obama has too little experience, why did he with less spend about 5 years running for President himself with less experience.

[Donnachaidh]

204. uh -- work on those reading comprehension skills, toots

The bad comments were an INTERPRETATION of what John was *supposed* to have said. By a RW pundit. And no RW pundit has ever been known to SPIN information, have they? :sarcasm:

[karynnj]

216. My reading comprehenension is fine

Note that I said "he was SAID TO made these comments", then I used the word "IF" The fact is I have seen no JRE statement that has refuted the word or the basic content.

[Barack_America]

21. If the man who opposes corporate involvement in government...

...wants to endorse a candidate who looked him in the eye and told him that she would NOT promise to ban lobbyists from participating in her White House...so be it.

But do I have the right to be confused and disappointed by that? Yes, I feel I do.

[saracat]

27. Some might be equally confused by a man who didn;'t endorse his own health care policy.

And Obama isn't banning Lobbyists either.

[karynnj]

119. Obama got the provision in that is the strongest action on lobbyists in decades

Edwards did NOTHING on this when in the Senate.

"Given the reliance of many lawmakers on lobbyists as fund-raisers, the idea of requiring them to disclose their roles usually meets stiff resistance on Capitol Hill — all of it behind the scenes and almost none of it in public. House passage is far from assured, and its adoption by the Senate by a roll-call vote of 96 to 2 followed some backroom resistance among senators in both parties to allowing the idea to come up for a vote at all.

The Republicans who controlled the Senate last year refused to let it come up. And on Jan. 12, before the details of the proposal had been disclosed, Senator Charles E. Schumer, the New York Democrat in charge of his party’s fund-raising as head of the senatorial campaign committee, used a run-in on the Senate floor to deliver an angry rebuke to the disclosure idea’s lead sponsor, Senator Barack Obama, Democrat of Illinois, several people present or briefed on the confrontation said.

In a subsequent conversation, Mr. Schumer said he worried that the proposal could cramp fund-raising by placing an undue burden on potential bundlers, said aides who were briefed and a lawmaker familiar with their talk, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the nature of the talks.

“Senator Obama has not been the most popular person in our caucus in the last couple of weeks,” said a Democratic aide involved in deliberations over the bill. Mr. Obama also this week started a bid for his party’s presidential nomination.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/us/politics/20ethics.html?_r=2&scp=3&sq=Senate+ethics+bill&st=nyt&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[flyarm]

213. you might want to look at what Obama has taken from Lobbists..

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists_aided_obamas_rise/

PACs and lobbyists aided Obama's rise
Data contrast with his theme
By Scott Helman, Globe Staff | August 9, 2007

Using campaign appearances, e-mails to supporters, and Iowa TV ads, Illinois Senator Barack Obama has repeatedly reminded voters that his presidential campaign does not accept contributions from lobbyists or political action committees, casting his decision as a noble departure from the ways of Washington.

snip:
But behind Obama's campaign rhetoric about taking on special interests lies a more complicated truth. A Globe review of Obama's campaign finance records shows that he collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from lobbyists and PACs as a state legislator in Illinois, a US senator, and a presidential aspirant.

In Obama's eight years in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies, and many other corporate interests, the records show.

Obama's US Senate campaign committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected $128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8 percent of what he has raised overall. Clinton's Senate committee, by comparison, has raised $3 million from PACs, 4 percent of her total amount raised, the group said.

In addition, Obama's own federal PAC, Hopefund, took in $115,000 from 56 PACs in the 2005-2006 election cycle out of $4.4 million the PAC raised, according to CQ MoneyLine, which collects Federal Election Commission data. Obama then used those PAC contributions -- including thousands from defense contractors, law firms, and the securities and insurance industries -- to build support for his presidential run by making donations to Democratic Party organizations and candidates around the country.



Obama is a liar.

[jlake]

33. I don't know that Edwards is going to support or endorse anyone - that is not my point.

Do you read Edwards supposed feelings.... It doesn't matter WHAT Obama says, Edwards doesn't feel that Obama will be able to get anything done. He agrees less with Hillary, but thinks she will be able to get things done.
Better to finish a project with a "B" than Dream of one that is an "A" and never do it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

98. Obama 's top advisors are Lobbyists for the Carlyle Group, the Blackstone Group, Monsanto, Pfizer...

United Health Group, Sempra Energy and Constellation Energy.

[jlake]

140. Oh - don't be silly. That is a LIE perpetrated by the Hillbots against St. Obama.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

147. yeah I know they chose to swallow the blue pill

[MADem]

24. Well, JE is of a certain age and culture where that word was commonly

used in his youth. It doesn't bother me, because it has more than one meaning. MEOW, and all that.

And he likely wasn't expecting to be quoted, either.

I have to laugh at these holier-than-thou fuckers, who can pooh-pooh Clinton's annoyance at that pimp business on the one hand (oh, she's MILKING it, she should SHUT UP, it's a COMMON WORD with a generic MEEEEANING now), but go ballistic about this particular P word.

No excorating of the SAINT, now!!

These folks are in for a HARD fall, I feel. They don't have a clue as to how another P word--POLITICS--is played when the gloves come off.

[saracat]

THat was not a "QUOTE" .

[MADem]

63. Sorry--it WAS a quote. In Mark Halperin's non-apology apology, he said it was.

JE used the Pussy word, per MH. MH apologized for REPEATING the word that JE used. Specifically:

I'm sorry. In a live radio interview this week, I used a word I shouldn't have. The fact that I was conveying other people's words is no excuse for my lapse in judgment. It won't happen again. -- Mark Halperin

Don't go shooting the goddamned messenger, now. He said it. I believe he said it, too. How many guys in their fifties or sixties do you actually know who are not Roman Catholic priests and who have NEVER used that word?

It was a popular word, and not so un-PC, a few decades back. It was as common as "wuss" is today. It was a "plausible deniability" word--one that suggested something other than "meow" but could be used as though it meant "small, helpless kittykat."


Links, for those who care:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/02/times-halperin-sorry-john-edwards-thinks-obama-is-a-pussy.php
http://thepage.time.com/2008/02/13/my-apologies/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/times-halperin-_n_86504.html

[saracat]

78. "conveying". is NOT"quoting" And believe me, as a journalist Halperin knows the inherent .

dangers in the use of the word "quote" and nowhere does he use it. He was "conveying" the sense of Edwards statement not a literal "quote".

[MADem]

Saracat, you can deny it until you're blue in the face if that makes you happy.

He said it. Halperin said he said it. Halperin may be a jerk, but he's not going to lie about something like that.

And if we look at the meaning of CONVEY, it means TRANSPORT. It doesn't mean "employ a synonym." He carried a statement from one locale to another. He transported the pussy word from JE's lips to Barbara Walter's ear.

And if JE did NOT use the Pussy Word, Halperin would have apologized for USING it--not for CONVEYING it. His apology clearly indicates--in fact, it takes PAINS to state-- that it wasn't "his" word.

Sorry, Saracat, you're stretching. He said it. It's not the end of the world. The word, after all, does have the joys of ambiguity associated with it. It's a word that can mean a female sexual organ, OR a tiny little kitty cat. And it is only in recent decades that the word has become "un-PC."

He's of the right age and stage in life to have that word firmly implanted in his casual lexicon.

Of course he said it. Halperin was indiscreet in repeating it.

[saracat]

95. You are the one stretching and if you think that JRE would have soken such a word to someone like

Halprin, you just don't know anything about Edwards. Sorry.

[MADem]

99. Well, I do believe, from the news reports I have read and cited here and elsewhere, that the only

one in denial here is you.

:hi:

[saracat]

103. Whole another thread where no one believes it was Edward's words.

or reads the 'apology as you do. Sorry MADem you are incorrect!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4578194#4578364

[MADem]

109. Saracat, did you actually READ that thread? It was hysterical, but it wasn't saying what you wanted

it to say.

He said it. You'll just have to deal with that.

Like I said, it's not the end of the world. Any person who can't use salty language every so often is untrustworthy, IMO. Wrapped WAAAAY too tight.

[BeyondGeography]

40. Send Hillary a note

I think she needs to take the gloves off. Or is she a political virgin, too?

[MADem]

73. Why would I do that? I'm quite sure she isn't worried one way or another about

what Edwards said about Obama to Mark Halperin.

What's with the "political virgin" comment, there? Having fun, are you, making 'vaginal ininuations?'

:rofl:

To use yet another P word, you seem a bit....pissy about this matter!

[BeyondGeography]

80. Oh no, in fact, I admire your stand on the matter

Edwards said it, we agree.

I also think that makes him pussy-whipped.

[ellacott]

25. Are you equally amazed at the lengths that the Hillary supporters go?

Both sides are extreme. This ignorance about cults and churches is the latest insult directed towards Obama supporters.

I wish everybody would just grow up. No way is this a board full of adults.

[MADem]

35. I hate to tell you this, but that CULT bullshit started with the Big O's own staff

They were digging on it. It's only here that the Perpetually Outraged had a hissyfit over it.

[ellacott]

42. So who's the cult follower?

You were helpless and couldn't stop from perpetuating it?

I don't believe this was started from his staff.

[MADem]

90. I really don't give a flying fuck what you "believe." I don't lie. I'll even give you a cite if

you'd like: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23182456-28737,00.html
Here, nice big clear letters, so you can't miss it:

"Rather than focusing on any specific issue or cause - other than an amorphous desire for change - the message is becoming dangerously self-referential. The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is."

I hear that too in the voices of Obama's staff constantly, themselves referring to this "cult of Obama".

"Even if he doesn't go all the way, and I'm not being defeatist, I'm so thrilled to be a part of this and see the size of the crowds turning out," one staffer tells me.

Here's some associated light reading, a report from a nonaligned blogger who has interfaced with the campaign: http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2008/02/obama-cult-of-personality.html

You can believe what you'd like, and you can ignore these cites if you'd like. I frankly don't care.

[ellacott]

94. Like I said, who's the cult follower?

You just couldn't resist posting about it over, and over. Did something come over you where you where resistance was futile.

[MADem]

96. I don't get your point, with the repetitive questions, rather like a ... Scientologist.

Yeah...who IS the cult follower?


I guess resistance was futile for you. My sympathies~~!


:rofl:

Keep asking questions and DO continue to ignore the citations! They're inconvenient truths, doncha know!

[ellacott]

102. I saw your citations but am still left with the same questions

I still question the validity of that report.

My point is that there appears to be an equal number of people who have given up their right to free thought when they get caught up in the candidate bashing that is rampant on this board. It appears that you people can't help yourselves, like you are under a spell or something.

[MADem]

111. You're saying that Obama's staffers are LIARS, then. That they never said that to

that reporter.

Ohhh kaaaay.

[jlake]

38. No. Obama supporters have a LONG list (Here are some examples)

LBJ
President Clinton
First Lady Hillary Clinton
Universal Healthcare
GLBT Rights
Joe Wilson
Valerie Plame
Wesley Clark
Chuck Schumer
Position on Ronald Reagan and Republicans
...and the list goes on.

[ellacott]

49. And...

What's your point? It happens on both sides. HRC supporters don't have clean hands either.

[jlake]

56. Where's the list of CORE Democratic principles and good Democrats Hillary supporters

have thrown under the bus?
HINT: NO Core issues have been sacrificed.

[ellacott]

62. Oh stop

Both sides are extreme. You can word it however you want but there is a lack of civility and rudeness against each other.

Kennedy was excoriated on this board because he didn't endorse Hillary.

I wish the grownups will come and reclaim this board.

[jlake]

67. Thanks for the examples *CRICKETS*

[ellacott]

71. So, you can't read?

I gave you one example and I refuse to play this tit for tat foolishness. You can read this board and please do not pretend that you don't see the madness on this board. You are not this stupid.

[jlake]

75. I saw 1 name and 0 issues.... a far cry from what Obama fans have done.

[ellacott]

You still can' read??

Damn, I'm going to have to type slower for you. I said I'm not going tit for tat with you. Both sides are extreme and there is no way for you to deny this, unless you are choosing to lie.

If you read this board you would know this. If you read the posts from many who are hoping for some level of maturity on this board you would know this.

This isn't about HRC vs Obama. It's about will either side grow the hell up and stop this madness.

Judging from your replies the answer is no.

[NashVegas]

87. Bartcop

Paul Krugman

[jlake]

201. Yeah, the body count is so high it's hard to remember all of 'em.

[rodeodance]

108. sickening.

[AtomicKitten]

28. And I am amazed at the wedge HRC supporters are trying to put between Obama & Edwards.

[jlake]

39. Yeah, Because Hillary supporters are the ones calling out John Edwards.

Get a CLUE.

[AtomicKitten]

48. Why don't YOU get a clue and quit neatly sweeping people in one pile.

[saracat]

82. They don't need too. It was obvious John had begun to dislike Obama by the last Debate.

[AtomicKitten]

133. and you are doing Edwards a great disservice here with your divisive bent

[saracat]

148. Hey, I call it as I see it. And as others close to the campaign saw it. I do not like Obama.

So, I should button my mouth? Maybe "watch what I say"? Even if John endorses Obama , I still will not like him or support him.And I have that right. You can disagree,

[Guava Jelly]

NO!

I love Edwards..
You shouldn't group all Obama supporters together any more than I should group all Clinton supporters together.
Judge the person not the group.

[jlake]

50. I am glad you are not sacrifcing principle for partisan gain - and is certainly not

all Obama supporters - but there are too many to say it is just "some"

[Guava Jelly]

61. "some"

Well "some" isn't all.


some
A adjective
1 some(a)
unknown or unspecified; "some lunatic drove into my car"; "some man telephoned while you were out"; "some day my prince will come"; "some enchanted evening"

2 some(a)
relatively many but unspecified in number; "they were here for some weeks"; "we did not meet again for some years"

3 some(a)
relatively much but unspecified in amount or extent; "we talked for some time"; "he was still some distance away"

4 some
remarkable; "that was some party"; "she is some skier"

5 some(a)
quantifier; used with either mass nouns or plural count nouns to indicate an unspecified number or quantity; "have some milk"; "some roses were still blooming"; "having some friends over"; "some apples"; "some paper"

B adverb
1 approximately, about, close to, just about, some, roughly, more or less, around, or so
(of quantities) imprecise but fairly close to correct; "lasted approximately an hour"; "in just about a minute"; "he's about 30 years old"; "I've had about all I can stand"; "we meet about once a month"; "some forty people came"; "weighs around a hundred

This is a silly little civil war we are in and it serves no purpose or does it help either candidate.

[thereismore]

29. man, I love the ignore button. nt

[jlake]

41. Lalalalalala I can't hear the truth. I am so cool!

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[jackson_dem]

30. It is because many of his supporters are like cult members

Not all but many. The kool aid drinkers can't fathom why Edwards would think Hillary is more electable and ready to be president. They view Hillary as an evil caricature, Obama as a saint and never bother to look at their actual positions and beliefs which are fundamentally the same. They are both good Democrats but one is ready to lead and win while the other will lose badly to McCain because folks won't trust him on security.

[DemBones DemBones]

101. Well said. Is this their

first rodeo or what? If the Dems nominate Obama, we'll be watching John McCain be sworn in as president next January.

Turning out the black vote and the youth vote in the primaries is no predictor of the turnout for the general election. Obama has done well in the primaries but he's going to have to keep all those voters and get the votes of the majority of people who didn't bother with the primary. I don't think he can do that, not running against a man who's been in the Senate more than twenty years, is a war hero, and loved by the media.

The key issue is that Obama doesn't have enough experience at the national level to get enough voters to trust him to be president.

The best thing we could do now is run a Clinton/Obama ticket. Clinton has the experience to win in November. Eight years as VP would give Obama the experience he needs to be president and he'd only be 54 in 2016.

[smalll]

31. Yet another victim for the altar.

How much good Democratic blood does their god need?


Troubling.

[shayes51]

32. Good post.

[bunnies]

37. This one hasnt. And re: your broad brush...

It totally sucks.

[jlake]

60. Thank you for standing up on principle. Unfortunately, but brush is just a tad too broad.

[frazzled]

43. Sacrifice?? Sacrifice what?

I don't understand this kind of language. (BTW, it's spelled "altar," if you're going to make this kind of histrionic religious metaphor).

I was very clear about my disdain for John Edwards as a politician for more than a year (well, actually it goes back to 2003). So there is nothing to sacrifice him up to for me. I would not belittle John Edwards just because he endorsed Clinton over Obama: I've been belittling him on a regular basis for a long time. I would belittle him as much if he endorsed Obama over Clinton.

Second, John Edwards is no longer in the race. There is nothing to sacrifice him to.

And last, it really doesn't matter.

[smalll]

69. Sacrifice what? -- Sacrifice good Democrats on the altar of their strange new god.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr? Eviscerated. Joe Wilson? Disemboweled. And now John Edwards? Emasculated.


How much good Democratic blood does the Great and Mighty Obama need? Troubling.

[karynnj]

124. Unlike th ecompletely innocent HRC people when Ted Kennedy and Gar Hart endorsed Obama

[jlake]

70. Thanks. Oops...

:blush: I know hot to spell - honest.

John Edwards being in the race or not has nothing to do with it being acceptable or not to trash him.
If you dislike JE, that is your opinion - but people who claim to like him and then throw him away when they disagree
with him are disingenuous at best.

[jillan]

44. What I want to know, is if they are going to eat their twinkies if Edwards

endorses Obama.

[Maddy McCall]

45. Hi, jlake...

What's going on? Why are Obama people so down on JE today?

I'm just logging on, and I saw the "twinkie" post...what the hell?

[LostinVA]

53. It's apparently NOT a slur against ANYONE

:eyes:

[Maddy McCall]

74. In their world, anyway.

[Bluebear]

57. Somebody suggested JE may endorse HRC. hence all the pre-emptive "boo JE" talk

[Maddy McCall]

72. So, let me get this straight.

Anything pro-Obama = GOOD!
Anything not pro-Obama = Boo Hiss!!

Just like the superdelegate situation. If Obama could use the superdelegates to ride to a win, were Clinton ahead in delegates, then they'd think superdelegates were the best thing since KY Jelly. Right?

Riiiight.

[Bluebear]

91. You're caught up with the program perfectly. nt

[Bucky]

54. What's the point of having a cult if there's no blood sacrifices?

Of couse the person calling Edwards a Twinkie is a grade-A jackass and hardly representative of the Obama campaign.

[DS1]

55. I'm hungry for some potato chips

Should I get regular Lays, Doritos, Fritos, or Sun Chips?

if they had Cool Ranch Doritos, I'd go for them in a heartbeat.



oh, right.


This thread sucks.

[Bicoastal]

58. Can't post an OP until tomorrow, can you?

Me neither. :(

[DS1]

65. Haven't used a single one, actually

I rarely post OPs here. They're not thrashing either candidate, so they drop like rocks.

[Sir Jeffrey]

66. While I disagree with the Obama "supporters" smearing Edwards...

I would like to point out that Edwards has a very thin record of accomplishment in public service, far less than both Clinton and Obama. Likewise, Edwards was on the wrong side of many progressive issues while he was in the Senate. He was, in essence, a southern style New Democrat.

People smearing Edwards by calling him names are childish. I have substantive issues with Edwards that go far beyond haircuts, slurs, or any other type of bullshit.

[jlake]

79. I can agree with honest criticisms and disagreements.

I have numerous critiques of Edwards - but there is a difference between that and trashing someone when there is a RUMOR that they won't go the way you want.

[beachmom]

68. I guess I missed it. But since that headline was bogus, I don't see

the point in making any comment. The article could have just as easily read, "Edwards weighing an Obama endorsement", if anyone bothered to read the article.

[Radical Activist]

76. Hillary hasn't accomplished anything of note after 16 years on the national scene.

I'll take the guy who has at least done something with his time in office other than pander to the polls.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

92. No, this thread proves my point.

Shockingly few answers to my question about her greatest accomplishment...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4474887&mesg_id=4474887

[saracat]

86. I guess children's health care doesn't count/ And a host of other things and I am not even a fan of

hers but that is just a really inane comment.Obama is the one who has no record of accomplishments unless you count selling out to lobbyist on heath care in Illinois!

[Radical Activist]

93. At best she can take partial credit

for SCHIP, which happened before she was in the Senate. That was part of the incremental approach to enacting universal health care, which failed.

I posted and repeatedly bumped a thread asking people what Hillary's greatest accomplishments were since she is running based on her record of making change. The lack of responses was very telling.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4474887&mesg_id=4474887

[jlake]

120. Yet Obama gets 100% Credit for "his" ethics reform bill - right?

[karynnj]

122. He gets credit for the provisions that everyone on the committee

says were his.

[Radical Activist]

141. He did a lot before he was in the US Senate.

Obama has more years in elected office and a longer record of making change than Clinton.

[karynnj]

121. He helped pass healthcare insurance in Illinois

S-CHIP was Kennedy/Hatch and originated in the Senate from the Kerry/Kennedy bill. HRC was important only because she got the President too include it in the bill. Yes Bill Clinton was DINO enough that he needed pushing after the bill passed a Republican dominated Senate. Though he was a little pre-occupied in spring 1997.)

[Hoof Hearted]

77. The bodies are starting to pile up kinda high.

Those disparaged for their lack of reverence. . .
And those who dared offend with their decision to support someone else.

Maya Angelou
Wesley Clark
John Edwards
Joe Wilson
NOW
Jim McGovern
Dolores Huerta
Tony Villaraigosa
Steven Spielberg
Gray Davis
Rob Reiner
Walter Mondale

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

All important Democratic and progressive voices who dared commit the sin of not joining the "movement".

[smalll]

85. Their strange new god is a bloodthirsty god.

[saracat]

88. Very odd and hateful.He will never get my allegiance.

These are creepy people.

[DemBones DemBones]

105. ooh, ponies!

:rofl:

[Horse with no Name]

89. Just wait til they start hauling out the virgins...n/t

[IndianaGreen]

97. NADER!

I see parallels between the irrational hatred of Obama and those that go into a psychotic episode at the mere mention of "Nader."

[jlake]

117. Yes, the irrational hatred of someone who thinks he is the best thing to happen

to the country EVER. Obama is the one who has sacrificed everything the Democratic Party stands for in order to win.

[IndianaGreen]

170. It was the Clintons who betrayed the working class with NAFTA

and turned the Party of Roosevelt into a light version of Hooverville.

[jlake]

179. I know your vehement hatred for the Clintons. I know that it has blinded you

to St. Obama's sins. I wish you could be rational - but that isn't going to happen.

[TheDonkey]

100. Edwards has had problems long before Obama entered the scene

Sorry but the guy is not genuine. Just ask John Kerry.

[saracat]

106. No comment. That is just vicious and not fair to either man.

[karynnj]

126. Kerry's been way too polite to say anything negative

He manages to avoid doing that. He went out of his way when endorsing to say that HRC and JRE would take the country in the right direction.

[jlake]

128. Kerry is too disconnected from reality to know what he is doing.

He has been a great senator for many years, and I think him for his service.
Between his personal feelings for John Edwards & The Clintons, and his insulation from the real world, I think he is misguided in his choice to back Obama.

[beachmom]

146. Actually, Kerry is quite connected to reality, thank you very much. Apart

from doing some appearances for Obama, I read about him traveling around Mass., talking with his constituents, speaking up for veterans' care, getting bridges and other infrastructure fixed in Mass., and so on. I mean, just bread and butter run of the mill Senate work which MUST involve "being in touch with reality", as in his constituents. And he knew Mass. was firmly in Clinton's column when he endorsed Obama, but he did so anyway, because he believes in Barack (even if you disagree).

[karynnj]

159. He seems to have been incredibly engaged in the Senate and in part building since 2004 to me

I've seen him in Boston at Faneuil Hall - after his speech he was mobbed by people outside - many just there to eat at Quincy Market nearby. Given Edwards' obvious inability to see that he has LESS experience than Obama shows he is out of touch. HRC's comments show that she has no idea what is happening in her own campaign.

In contrast, Kerry's realization that he was not the right person to run this year shows that he is very much in touch with reality and wants what id good for the country and world. I think he will only get better in his contributions to the country. I disagree that he is misguided in endorsing Obama. I think he and Kennedy are correct that it will take a break with the past and a different more sensitive foreign policy to restore our place in the world.

As to it being based on personal feelings - remember Kerry forgave Nixon after all he did and he endorsed Jim Webb in the primariesalthough he refused to shake his hand for 30 years over Vietnam and who wrote an op-ed in 2004 that questioned Kerry's patriotism. Any reservation Kerry had on HRC likely had to do with how they ran the country for 8 years. As to Edwards, it was Edwards who ended their communication and given Kerry's comments on wanting someone who could unite the country - a theme he was using in 2006 himself. Edwards was arguing that you can't negotiate. Given Kerry's own beliefs, Obama was the one that could fit that role. You can, of course, dispute his ideas - he can be wrong - but they do agree with his action.

[Occam Bandage]

104. I never liked Edwards. Seriously, I was bashing him when DU was Johnnyland.

[jlake]

123. Good. You're on the record as being wrong from the start.

Very typical of a rabid Obamabot.

[Occam Bandage]

153. Actually, I was bashing him back when I was a Biden supporter. Nothing about "Obamabot."

[jlake]

154. Usually Bidenites aren't so crude as to trash other candidates

[Occam Bandage]

155. Usually Bidenites call it like we see it without the bullshit.

Obama's great. I didn't go for him early on because he was too cool, too cerebral. Clinton's pretty darn good. Edwards is a joke.

[jlake]

156. That's true. That's why I call BS on Obama, but your judgment is clouded.

[Occam Bandage]

157. Then carry on, wayward son.

[jlake]

158. I don't think Joe likes Obama. Just sayin'.

[Occam Bandage]

161. And had he endorsed Hillary after Iowa, it possibly could have factored into my decision.

By his silence, he effectively said, "All right, go decide as you will." I was a Biden supporter, not a Biden cultist; I'm not going to read tea leaves and entrails to try to divine the Will of Joe. If we take their seating at the SOTU to be a tacit endorsement, then congratulations on that, and we'll leave it at that.

[rodeodance]

107. Some Obamasupporters will do anything to win. name thashing is second-nature to many

of them---just look at this board on any given day.

[jlake]

118. Yes, he sure is the unity candidate.

[Political Heretic]

110. Yawn. We'll have the exact same from Clinton supporters if Edwards endorses "someone else"

Yes, its sad that human beings, on either side of a topic or issue, can not always be counted on to act responsibly.

But that's life.

[incapsulated]

116. No, you won't

In fact, most of us expect/expected him to endorse Obama before all this and didn't really have any issue with it.

I certainly don't care.

[karynnj]

112. Obama actually passed the toughest ethics reform provisions in decades, what has HRC actually passed

Here's the link on the ethics reform bill. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/us/politics/20ethics.html?_r=2&scp=3&sq=Senate+ethics+bill&st=nyt&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[zulchzulu]

125. That's one dumbass post...do two more quickly please...

Hurry!

[jlake]

127. So a lame put down and joke is all you have to offer?

Typical Obama.

[zulchzulu]

129. Do a thread about how Hillary never congratulated Obama when he kicked her ass yesterday

Just a thought...

[jlake]

131. How about when he never congratulated Hillary when she won Nevada?

How about, who cares about that.

[zulchzulu]

132. Actually Obama DID congratulate her...although he got more delegates than she did

Now, about Hillary getting her ass kicked yesterday...BADLY... any clues when she'll congratulate Obama? She can't admit she is going to lose again? Is she whining about something else and forgot to do the professional courtesy and congratulate her opponent?

:shrug:

[jlake]

134. Ha! Dear God you all are a pathetic bunch.

Kick her when she's up. Kick her when she's down.

[Clinton Crusader]

130. Don't you see jlake? The SECOND you dont agree 100% with

Jesus Obama Christ, you're OUT. You're the devil, you're gutless, a puke, useless. You have to give up your identity, get a freakin' number, get in line lock step, and keep saying hope, change, believe over and over and over like an automoton.

These cultists are like those religious people in that Time Life religious CD commercial, standing there with their arms in the air, eyes closed singing, all in a trance. Blind worship. Haven't you noticed there is hardly any posts about his accomplshments, his plans, his platform? Nothing?? ALL they do is rip everyone else to pieces??

Anyone who used to be a hero at DU that now is supporting ANYONE else is now the GOAT. Too much like a religious cult and it's frightening.

[jlake]

202. I just can't believe it.... and they can't defend the actions - they just call

my post "stupid" and tell me to "shut up" - what wonderful, productive conversation.

[eileen_d]

135. Obama's no saint, but neither is Edwards

If anyone's supporters act like their candidate is a saint, it's Edwards supporters. They act like he's pure as the driven snow. They're both human beings with flaws for heaven's sake. And Edwards can take his time endorsing as far as I'm concerned.

[jlake]

137. Oh dear. I have never seen a SINGLE Edwards supporter worship the man

the way the AVERAGE Obama supporter worships Obama.

[eileen_d]

138. I didn't say they worship him

I said they act like he's perfect. There's a difference.

[jlake]

139. The same thing I said before with "Acts Perfect"

[eileen_d]

145. Well, we can agree to disagree

And the more I think about it, I have seen some "Edwards-worship" on the boards. Not that I think it reached toxic levels, but perhaps enough to make me roll my eyes on occasion. I guess I don't even know what my point is. I'm not particularly a fan of Edwards, but I respect his decision to postpone endorsing until he sees fit.

[DemGa]

136. The religious devotion towards Obama could turn things...fast

Politics are funny that way.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jlake]

143. LALALALALA I can't hear the truth, so I have to hope you die!!!!

TYPICAL. OBAMA.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

144. I like Obama, but lmao--clever.

:D

[femrap]

149. BO's fans are not in control of their

faculties...they are under the 'Obama Spell' where all who don't bow to his lack of experience are treated to temper tantrums and foot stomping...similar to the antics of a two year old.

[jlake]

152. That is true. It is sad that people are so easily manipulated and fooled...

and that they become so dangerous.

[rodeodance]

151. Love the phasology of the OP--says it all.

[Pastiche423]

162. johnnyboy sacrificed himself

He needed no help in that department.

Disclaimer: I have no horse in this race. My horse never made it to the starting gate.

[jlake]

163. How could John trash himself? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Pastiche423]

164. Who said anything about trash?

[jlake]

165. That is what my OP is about.

[Pastiche423]

166. You're talking about trash?

[jlake]

167. Of course not. My OP is about how Obama supporters have sacrificed JE by

trashing him and calling him a "sell out" - not that he is marginalized for whatever reasons.
IOW the rumor of Edwards endorsing Clinton led Obama supporters to denigrate his character - or trash him.

[Pastiche423]

171. Gotcha

And I disagree vehemently. johnnyboy trashed his own self. His actions while in the senate were 180 from his campaign rhetoric.

Moreover, the majority of voters agreed w/me. He lost!

Now that he is endorsing Clinton, his true colors are shining through.

[jlake]

173. St. Obama appreciates your support. He campaigns for your sins.

[Pastiche423]

174. I am not an Obama supporter

So kindly take your trash elsewhere.

[jlake]

175. You are still defending him - and he campaigns for all of our sins.

Some of us (perhaps you among us) just have not accepted him into our hearts.

[Pastiche423]

178. Where have I defended Obama?

[QC]

168. Ole Pasty doesn't do sense. n/t

[jlake]

191. Yes. Sadly, I didn't catch on very fast.

[stillcool]

172. I didn't click on that post...

I think I learned my lesson after reading the plethora of posts that pilloried Ted Kennedy with most of his family and John Kerry.

[kurth]

180. Cults have to have an enemy to rally against

I certainly have not seen Obama fans rally against corporations or their newfound partners the Republicans.

[jlake]

183. I guess so - hopefully they'll pick a Repub one of these days.

[LittleClarkie]

181. Two years? 2008 - 2004 = 4. Same amount that Edwards the one term Senator had

And if you think he hasn't accomplished anything of note, you haven't read his resume.

Just seems odd that Edwards would be considering Hillary when I don't think she matches up to his campaign rhetoric very well.

[jlake]

182. Obama was elected in 2006 = 2 years. He doesn't have the signature accomplishments

one would expect for a presidential nominee.
Granted, Hillary doesn't have as many as I would like - but she does know Washington inside and out and has a magnitude of experience that far surpasses Obama's.

[LittleClarkie]

186. No, I'm sorry, but he was elected in 2004. It's a matter of record.

He got 70 percent of the vote in 2004. He was so safely winning, and Illinois was so safely blue, that we had Illinois people coming up to Wisconsin to help us with our Kerry campaign.

Check again. It was 2004. Seriously.

[PresidentObama]

189. He didn't take office until 2005, however.

Began running unofficially in 2006.

And finally ran in earler 2007.

[jlake]

190. Thank you - you are of course right --- But I am having a major deja vu over this...

anyway, yes he has served 3 years in the senate (Being sworn in in 2005)
My apologies.

[D23MIURG23]

184. What is this about?

Substance please?

[jlake]

185. I can't link to the other posts, becuase that would be calling out DUers. But

on rumor that Edwards may endorse Hillary, more than a few Obama supporters began calling John Edwards a "sell out" "phony" "con artist" "liar" "twinkie" etc etc etc.

[D23MIURG23]

193. Thanks.

This election cycle is nuts. This site has turned into "scream and throw shit underground". I'll be happy when I see more threads attacking republicans then democrats again.

Just so you know not all of us who support Obama think that crap is cool. I was an Edwards supporter first...

[Hoof Hearted]

195. And "not a REAL MAN". That was precious, on a supposedly liberal site like this.

[jlake]

197. Yeah. Forgot that gem.

[Danger Mouse]

194. Personally, I don't care if Edwards endorses the man in the moon.

:shrug:

[jlake]

214. Good for you - Unfortunately some seem to think that if he is not for Obama he is a traitor.

[Danger Mouse]

217. I don't agree with that all.

I think he should endorse whoever he wants.

[stevietheman]

198. Somebody please put this Hillbot out to pasture. n/t

n/t

[jlake]

Wow. What a charming and informative post.

[jlake]

200. Delete - Dupe.

[snappyturtle]

205. Link?

Read this: If Se. Obama can do this for IL think of what he'll accomplish as POTUS!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4578207

[jlake]

206. I have no idea how that relates to this thread.

Most of the threads were locked or deleted - it was that ugly.

[snappyturtle]

208. Can you simply give me a link to a news article or 'something'....

I haven't heard anything about this and you post a thread like it's a big deal. Sorry, if I'm behind the times. Sounds fairly umimpressive to begin with.

[jlake]

209. It was Obama supporters on DU turning on John Edwards.

It was uncalled for.

[snappyturtle]

210. Thank you. I wouldn't see need for that either! n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

211. and the list grows...next will be Al Gore

[jlake]

212. Yeah, I'm kinda surprised they haven't done it yet - afterall, Gore had the audacity to not

endorse Obama on day 1.

[Raine]

215. What a waste of a post and a waste

of my time to even open it. :silly:

[Sultana]

218. o rly?

:eyes:

[jlake]

219. Yeah. Really.

[Sultana]

220. NOT!

[jlake]

221. Apparently you don't know what this thread was in reference to -

and if you do - and are acting this way you are absolutely cruel.

[Sultana]

223. Sure, I should believe a Hill Shrill

:eyes:
KISS MY ASS!