Pryderi
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Wed Feb-13-08 04:54 PM
Original message |
Poll question: Should Florida and Michigan hold a Spring caucus? |
RUMMYisFROSTED
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Wed Feb-13-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Other: Give Edwards all the delegates. |
1monster
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
48. Hey, I like that idea! |
GalleryGod
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Wed Feb-13-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message |
2. No, but, a Spring Prom would be appropriate. |
Ian David
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Wed Feb-13-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message |
3. If Florida cared about their vote, they would have done something after 2000. n/t |
1monster
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
52. We cared. But remember, Jeb Bush and all his henchmen were in charge. |
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He stymied all efforts to change things for the better, even pushed legislation through which made recounts and paper trails null and void.
We cared. We still care.
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GP6971
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Wed Feb-13-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message |
4. I'd prefer a primary instead n/t |
arthritisR_US
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
46. Me too...caucuses leave out too many people. n/t |
Jane Austin
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message |
5. Yes, and if Gov. Dean asked for it, |
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I'd contribute to help defray the cost.
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WilyWondr
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message |
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1. They had their primary already. So your question should refer to a second primary. 2. The states voted to hold their primaries early. 3. They knew the consequences when they voted to do that.
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1monster
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
53. The voters in Florida DID NOT vote to hold early primaries. We were not consulted. |
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The state legislature voted to hold early primaries.
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endarkenment
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message |
7. They knew the rules when they moved their primaries. |
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Changing the rules because your candidate is losing is, to put it mildly, bad form.
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VotesForWomen
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
14. yeah, besides, who needs FL and MI in the GE? screw 'em. nt |
ORDagnabbit
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:09 PM
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8. they should hold spring primaries paid for 50% by the DNC and 50% by the state |
Pathwalker
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
9. Then it will never happen. Michigan is broke. |
TheDonkey
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. I'd agree with that, at the end of the calendar |
juajen
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
30. Well, since Obama wants a revote so badly, let him pay for it. |
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He has scads of money. However, only a primary, no caucuses.
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TheDonkey
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
36. Actually Hillary would be more able to take the check but again she won't release her records!! |
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Maybe she is broke and embarrassed?? Why won't Hillary release her financial records.
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juajen
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message |
10. Caucuses are not fair. They leave out all of the people who |
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have already voted in FL and MI, and leave out the poor and hard working middle class who cannot afford to lose that much time from work. Some of these people are working extra jobs and overtime to make ends meet. In addition, it puts Obama at an advantage because his overwhelming young vote stomps all over the elderly that might go to caucus if they could stand that up that long This should never happen. Before any of you take this occasion to make fun of the elderly, who might or might not be able to stand that long, please remember that diabetics have a condition called neuropathy, which I have, and in no way could go through the physical discomfort of a caucus. Of course this disenfranchises the elderly and we know how many elderly people retire to FL and vote every time the polls are open. Additionally, there's the problem that this vote is not secret and intimidation of opposition voters has been rife in this election season.
So, no easy solution comes to mind that is better than giving Hillary her damn votes. After all, the voters had nothing to do with this fiasco, nor can the vote ever be an honest vote taken out of time.
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WilyWondr
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
20. "the voters had nothing to do with this fiasco" |
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How do you figure?
The state representatives of these people made this change knowing the consequences. They voted to move their primary. End of story. The people in those states could have contacted their state representatives to voice their opinion on the matter(I am sure some did). That is how a representative government works AFAIK.
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juajen
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
29. Yeah, and no "do-overs" to give your candidate an advantage. |
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We're mature, not stupid.
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VotesForWomen
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message |
11. no CAUCUS. caucuses are a joke. a primary, maybe. nt |
sniffa
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
jackson_dem
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message |
12. Their delegates should be seated. Millions already voted in those states |
IndianaGreen
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
17. No, Hillary, your shameless attempt to get delegates you don't deserve |
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and your despicable attempt to get the superdelegates to invalidate the popular vote, will get you a mass rejection by the people.
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jackson_dem
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
21. Millions of voters in Florida and Michigan don't count because the DNC screwed up? |
IndianaGreen
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
25. The DNC did not screw up! It was the politicians in FL and MI that overplayed their hand |
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and they used the Democratic voters as pawns in the head game they played.
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juajen
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
28. Aren't you funny! You know that if they are counted, she will |
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win the delegate vote and the popular vote. You are trying to invalidate her win to benefit your candidate. That's what's despicable.
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IndianaGreen
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
33. She won MI and FL the same way Saddam used to win elections in Iraq, without opposition! |
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Your faux outrage and concern about voting rights is really amazing when one considers how Hillary tried to suppress voters in Nevada, and her husband played the race card in SC.
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1monster
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
55. In Florida, all the candidates were on the ballot. Clinton did not run unopposed. |
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BTW, I didn't vote for her. I voted for Kucinich. My second choice was Edwards. I have no third choice. To me, there is little difference between the two remaining candidates.
But I do believe that the people of Michigan should have a do over. The people of Florida don't need a do over. Just count their votes and seat their delegates.
(No need to seat the Super Delagates from either state, though. THEY are the ones who played chicken. Let them reap the consequenses.
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totodeinhere
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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Obama might have a large enough lead in pledged delegates that even if they count Florida and Michigan he will still be ahead. Look for Obama to pick up more delegates in Wisconsin, Hawaii, Vermont, Oregon, and Rhode Island. That should be enough to offset the results from Ohio and Texas even if Hillary manages to pull out narrow wins in those two states, which I doubt.
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anigbrowl
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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She only got a 57 delegate advantage from the two contests. Obama leads in pledged delegates by 103 as of last night. See my post below for the math. FL and MI won't bring her the nomination.
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jackson_dem
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
59. Only if you assume uncommitted in Michigan will all go to Obama... |
jackson_dem
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
58. Yup. How can we win the general if we disenfranchise Florida and Michigan? |
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We lost Florida in 2004 and won Michigan by 2 or 3. Do you think they will vote for us if we disenfranchise millions of folks in those states?
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HiFructosePronSyrup
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message |
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No changing the rules after the game. No do-overs.
This isn't square ball.
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goodgd_yall
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message |
16. No, they should work with the results they already have. |
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Give Michigan's uncommitted to Obama and distributes Florida's as they are.
Caucuses are disenfranchising.
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ORDem
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message |
18. Only after the other States are done voting. n/t |
Meshuga
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message |
22. I would say yes however... |
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I think primaries would be fair.
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Johnny__Motown
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message |
23. That or don't seat the delegates |
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It isn't fair to the people who didn't vote because they thought they wouldn't have delegates seated anyways.
Changing things after the fact simply isn't fair.
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ButterflyBlood
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Wed Feb-13-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message |
24. I voted yes, but it should be summer |
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After everywhere else has voted.
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Little Star
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message |
26. NO! NO! NO! Primary maybe. There is a system already in place |
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to seat those delegates. Saw it explained on TV by Donna Brazile?? who said the system has already been used before and it worked. This was a couple of weeks ago and I can't remember the details. It was on tv so I have no link, sorry.
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zonkers
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message |
27. Why, so they can truly be rewarded instead of being punished for violating party rules? |
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By having their votes count even more? No way.
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juajen
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
35. Once again, the voters only did what they were told to do. |
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If you want to punish someone, punish the people who made the decision. The fact is, with FL, Hillary is, once again, ahead in the popular vote and in delegates. Florida is a highly populated state. Of course, with his current momentum, Obama wants a "do-over". With the circumstances possibly changing, that disenfranchises Hillary Clinton.
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zonkers
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
45. Moving convention up was a punk move. If FL Dem Officials really wanted to act in the |
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best interest of FL Dems, they would be taking radical steps in fighting voter disenfranchisement in their fucked up state. Ain't no way, they cured that problem. They are just waisting time with this pissing contest. BTW, I've lived in FL.
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thoughtcrime1984
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
47. The votes were done under the premise that the delegates |
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wouldn't count. That kept some Obama supporters at home, hell, he wasn't on the MI ballot. Allow campaigning there, let's do this right. This is only the fifteenth time I've had to explain why we can't all of the sudden count delegates under a false pretense vote. You just cannot wrap your head around this for some reason. I suppose changing the rules after the fact is the Clinton way, though.
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Romulox
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
39. The "rules" say that the credentials committe gets to decide. |
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I'm sure you're at least as adamant about following that rule as you are about disenfranchising Michigan, aren't you?
<crickets>
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zonkers
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
56. Florida is still on probation in my book. No problem with Mich. |
MadBadger
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Id prefer a primary, but if only a caucus can be done, than yes |
Indenturedebtor
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message |
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Sorry but just no. I'm glad that HRC got to run a fun little gorilla campaign in those states... and she won... that's just lovely. But they broke the rules a decision was made, and it's too late to go back now.
Next time around FL and MI.
And this is NOT going to happen unless she leads the legitimate popular vote count. If she's already won then who cares? :shrug:
But they shouldn't get to have a say in the Democratic primaries after breaking the rules of the democratic primaries.
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nonconformist
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message |
34. No. It would cost millions of dollars. |
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Millions have voted, and shouldn't be disenfranchised. Give the Uncommitted votes to Obama (as he told his supporters to vote) and seat the delegates. It's the right thing to do.
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Romulox
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message |
37. Not. Going. To. Happen. Forget it! |
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Moreover, a choice of amongst the two candidates still standing is not the same thing as a real choice.
The DNC wants us to sanctify its highly undemocratic primary scheme after the fact, after the truly important players have already winnowed the field.
Not. Going. To. Happen.
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shayes51
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:26 PM
Response to Original message |
38. No. They already voted. Count them. |
OPERATIONMINDCRIME
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message |
41. No. Florida Should Seat The Delegates That Were Already Legitimately Chosen. FL Already Voted, And |
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did so with a loud legitimate voice. Personally, with all the caring towards the integrity of elections DU'ers as a WHOLE are generally found to hold, I'm a bit in shock how quickly they'll turn away from that integrity when it serves to benefit their candidate.
Seat the FL delegates. It's the honorable thing to do and the only decision with integrity.
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goldcanyonaz
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message |
42. No, they already voted. |
bunnies
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message |
43. Only if they want their votes to count. nt |
tokenlib
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message |
44. YES, My primary was DEFECTIVE, .... |
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...defective products get recalled. So I want my vote back.
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JustABozoOnThisBus
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message |
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If the delegates are going to be seated, then there should be a caucus or primary. And it looks like the DNC will fold and seat the delegates.
My first choice is no don't have a caucus/primary, and don't seat the delegates. The primary was flawed (at least in MI) so just drop it. And just for good measure, don't seat any MI superdelegates. That would seem fair.
Again, I'm just talking about MI, since that's where I "voted" in the primary. FL delegates, well, that's up to Floridians.
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anigbrowl
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message |
50. Seat the delegates. It's good for Obama (really) |
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Here's why:
Florida: 210 Delegates Clinton 50% - 105 Obama 33% - 70
Michigan: 168 delegates Clinton 55% - 86 'Uncommited' 40% - 64
I think it's fair to assume 'uncommitted' delegates will vote for Obama. Everyone in MI already had a chance to vote Clinton.
Clinton 105 + 86 = 191 Obama 70 + 64 = 134
191 - 134 = 57
So FL and MI = 57 extra delegates for Hillary Clinton.
Obama is leading her by 103 at the moment. As long as he holds his lead, it won't make a damn bit of difference. He can afford to give Hillary her precious result and he still leads the delegate race; meanwhile the argument that voters in FL and MI have been disenfranchised goes up in smoke.
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cooolandrew
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:40 PM
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54. Some voted , to disenfranchise 2 whole states. They havent voted yet as they classed the 1st illegal |
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Edited on Wed Feb-13-08 06:44 PM by cooolandrew
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DrFunkenstein
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Wed Feb-13-08 06:51 PM
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They were warned, they went ahead, they own it.
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tritsofme
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Wed Feb-13-08 09:16 PM
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60. Will millions of people show up? |
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Not likely to be a quarter as representative as FL's primary.
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