Clinton leads handily among gay super delegates

[Bluebear]

Twenty-one openly gay Democrats have been identified as super delegates to the Democratic National Convention in Denver this summer, and 12 have declared their support for presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton.

As of this week, just two of the gay super delegates had declared their support for presidential contender Barack Obama, while seven were listed as undeclared...

“I’m getting a flurry of e-mails every day from the Obama camp,” said Rick Stafford, the Minnesota activist who serves as chair of the Democratic National Committee’s GLBT Americans Caucus. Stafford said he long ago declared his support for Clinton. But he said Obama supporters are urging him to switch sides, pointing out that Obama handily defeated Clinton in Minnesota’s Feb. 5 party caucuses. “They’re saying I should accept the judgment of the voters,” said Stafford, who added he remains firmly
supportive of Clinton...

The other two, gay Reps. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc.), won super delegate status because they are members of Congress. Both are supporting Clinton.

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=16588


http://www.truthwinsout.org/
"A full-blown attack on the 'ex-gay' ministries." -Bob Knight, Concerned Women of America

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Gay People Have The Right To Be Wrong

This is a free country, after all.

[Bluebear]

3. Oh, we're always "wrong" it seems.

At least in some quarters.

[NJSecularist]

4. Do you have to play victim in every thread?

Why are gay delegates any different from non-gay delegates? Their votes all count the same.

Are you just trying to be divisive again and throw Obama under the bus?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

22. He can join us here if he wants, not that there's much more room

If he found out what it was like under here perhaps he wouldn't be so quick to throw us here in the name of political expediency.

[Reterr]

31. Bluebear is sort of an institution around here

Even a lurker like myself knows that. He is not some campaign shill who signed up two weeks ago and started posting every two seconds to build up a 1000 post count. Some of us are rather more interested in the opinions of progressives like BB than that of the latter type of poster-ya know what I mean.
Just saying....

[Bluebear]

34. Wow . .

I am not worthy. :hug: Love to you.

[NJSecularist]

44. Being a bitter, divisive person does not make you a progressive

Just saying...

[LostinVA]

54. Wow -- major projection

[Reterr]

55. No I didn't think it did

:eyes:

The irony is thick....

[NMMNG]

81. Case in point.

[ruggerson]

106. And being a recycled sockpuppet

does not make you worthy of being paid attention to. Ya know what I'm saying?

[LostinVA]

50. No one is throwing Obama under the bus

Obama HAS thrown gays under the bus, however.

BTW, Bluebear has WAY more cred around here, than you.

[NJSecularist]

59. So basically you are resorting to the argument that...

Bluebear has more DU internet friends than me, that's why she is more reputable????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Whatever you say.

Bluebear is being bitter and divisive like she usually is. Ever notice how all of the GLBT people are defending her and all of the non-GLBT people aren't?

My point has been made.

I'll go side with Obama, who wants to end the culture of divisiveness in politics, unlike some of you who'd like to keep it going.

[rinsd]

63. "Ever notice how all of the GLBT are defending her and all of the non-GLBT aren't?"

"My point has been made."

Yes it has. And I had no idea you were like that.

[Reterr]

64. "Ever notice how all of the GLBT are defending her and all of the non-GLBT aren't?"

Wow -yep and Bluebear is the one who is being divisive :crazy:...

Btw what qualifies one for this "non-GLBT" label? I am a straight woman -I suppose you assume those of us that have avatars that might imply we might support human rights for everyone are necessarily "those GLBTs" ?

[Jamastiene]

146. Thank you.

You just single handedly proved that post to be flat out false.

Thanks for that. You just helped prove MY point, which is:
OF COURSE, not "All" non-GLBT people on DU are homophobes. There are plenty of SBNN, aka Straight But Not Narrow, DUers.

:D

[Straight Shooter]

67. No. Bluebear is consistent and honest and not divisive; thus, the good rep on DU. n/t

[Reterr]

72. I was gonna say...I have never even PMed the guy

Sometimes some of us are not such fools that we can't see who is a genuine and nice person and who is a campaign shill who sees us all as sheeple they can convert :eyes:. Great way to promote your candidate-by underestimating the intelligence of those you seek to convert...

[Straight Shooter]

80. Instead of rolling your eyes, please note I wasn't responding to you.

My post was directed at another. Thank you.

[Reterr]

85. You misunderstood me-I was agreeing with you

:hi:
I was rolling my eyes at the mindset of campaign shills. They think we are such fools don't they?

[Straight Shooter]

124. My apologies. I hope I didn't sound snarky.

Fools (who need not be mentioned by name) do tend to project a lot, don't they?

:hi:

[LostinVA]

69. Bluebear is a man

And non-GLBT people defend Bluebear, but you'll never admit that.

[NJSecularist]

71. No, I won't admit, and now he's on ignore

I'm done with him.

Feel free for all of you to do the same with me. :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

I look forward to talking to the rest of you civilly on this forum. :hi: :hi:

[Reterr]

76. No thanks-I think he is doing the smart thing here

An ignore function is a terrible thing to waste :hi:.

[LostinVA]

77. Posters agreeing with Bluebear have told you they're straight -- and you still don't believe them?

Wow -- talk about blinders.

[Bluebear]

79. I can imagine what :ignored: is saying LOL

Holy Toledo, posting one news article really rocked somebody's world, eh?

[LostinVA]

83. Only dumb gay people agree with you

And the straight people agreeing with you are actually gay.

Blah, blah, blah.

[RetroLounge]

119. Way too late for that...

This non-GLBT poster supports BB.

here's an avatar you are too new to remember

_|_

RL

[NMMNG]

120. I have yet to see you talk to anybody civilly

But then there's a first time for everything. :shrug:

[Hoof Hearted]

190. Holy self-admitted flaming homophobic bigotry batman.

I love BlueBear. I'm happy to go to bat for BlueBear. I must be GAY!

[saracat]

73. An Obama supporter ending the culture of divisiveness? We were NEVER so divided since his campaign.

Du has seens a rise of sexism, ageism , anti gay sentiment and usually in the name of the Obama Campaign. It is really hard for me to see him as a uniter!

[NorthernSpy]

103. you forgot to mention the race-baiting and youth-hating from the Clinton camp...

As well as the odd spate of Christian-bashing.

Be fair, saracat.

[w13rd0]

82. What the hell?

I'm an Obama supporter, and I'm GLBT, and that's not called for. Clinton has more support among the GLBT community presently. That's fine. I've got friends that consider themselves Log Cabin also, and they are all up in McCains ass, pun completely intended.

Primaries, voting, all of it, is about making up our own minds. I really don't think fellow Obama supporters need to browbeat or especially, to insult, to garner support.

[NMMNG]

87. Funny how your guy's idea of ending divisiveness

Is putting a homophobe on stage to spew bigotry to the cheers of other homophobes. He calls this "reaching out".

I call that bullshit.

[nonconformist]

118. Bullshit. I'm not gay, and Bluebear is right. nt

[Sapphocrat]

125. Your point has been made, all right.

And it's pretty disgusting.

As for Bluebear being "bitter and divisive"... Project much? (I'll save you the trouble: Yeah, you do.) Bluebear is one of the fairest, most reasoned, and most widely-respected posters on this board. DU is lucky to have him.

And, FYI, Bluebear is a man. Or did you already know that, and were using the pronoun "she" deliberately?

[bullwinkle428]

142. What a steaming pile!! Bluebear is one of the finest posters

at DU, and your attacks are completely unwarranted!! BB has plenty of straight friends here (including myself), so keep that in mind every time you decide to go after him...

[Jamastiene]

145. College Student Success 101

Words like "all" or "none" make a sentence false in most cases.

And in this case, no exception to the rule, your sentence is false. There are plenty of non GLBT people on DU who also believe gay rights are an important issue and also will gladly step up and defend Bluebear's post in this case.

Of course, you use of the word, "she" is preposterous.

[JTFrog]

Clinton and her supporters have to stay on the same theme. n/t

[elixir]

225. If only we could throw him under the bus. Maybe John McCain could just run over him in the Straight

Talk Express.

[jackson_dem]

98. Bigotry is alive and well even among the most left elements of our party

And they all have gravitated to one candidate...

[Jamastiene]

148. Thank you. n/t

[KitchenWitch]

5. What????

Anyone has a right to choose the candidate who best represents their stands on the issues...

:eyes:

[jlake]

8. Thank you for granting me one right.

Lord knows I have to beg for my rights.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. As A Proud Massachusetts Resident

I formally invite you to our bluest of states.

[jlake]

16. Didn't know I needed an invitation - is it 'cuz I'm gay?

Too Bad Obama doesn't support Massachusetts values.

[MannyGoldstein]

27. Because You Believe You Have A Lack Of Liberties n/t

[jackson_dem]

99. Let me get this straight

You are patronizing toward GLBT folks who want equal rights but passionate about Al-Qaeda operatives not being water boarded?

[MannyGoldstein]

128. Sorry That You Feel That Way

I'm quite certain that you're wrong.

[NMMNG]

11. Delete.

Dupe.

[Bluebear]

15. We're "playing the victim again"

As assclown NJSecularist told me before I finally put them on ignore.

[NMMNG]

39. Funny how we're playing the victim but victimizing Obama

How, praytell, is that happening?

[NMMNG]

12. Yeah, anybody who doesn't vote for Obama is wrong.

We need straight people to tell us what's best for us after all. :eyes:



And if Obama becomes president, being wrong is the only right we'll have left anyway.

[NMMatt]

42. Why do gays support the Clintons?

It is my understanding that Bill Clinton pretty much sold the LGBT community out with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," Defense of Marriage Act, etc. I understand that Obama is a bit unknown, but why would Clinton presume to be any better? What is the positive argument FOR Clinton?

[NMMNG]

70. I can't speak for all gays of course

Obama is more than an unknown. He's poison. Go to http://news.lavenderliberal.com/">here, type "Obama" in the search window and you'll have pages and pages of reasons why at least two gay people aren't voting for him.


Bill Clinton was working with a Republican dominated congress led by Newt Gingrich. He had the Contract with America to deal with. DADT was a compromise (albeit a bad one) that he was forced to make to keep top military officials from walking in the wake of his promise to allow gays to serve openly. DOMA was his measure to prevent an FMA type measure that would ban same-sex marriage completely. Therefore while DADT and DOMA were both harmful they were necessary measures at the time given the political climate. Clinton did the best he could under the circumstances and actually had great intentions for LGBT rights when he first went into office.

[Bluebear]

84. One good case: Hillary Clinton addresses gay teen suicide

Senator Hillary Clinton, during a question-and-answer session, addresses the following question submitted over the Internet:

"Considering the extraordinarily high incidence of depression and suicide among gay teenagers, what action will you, as President, take to encourage a more accepting and healthy educational experience for LGBT teens?"

Clinton says she sympathizes with the burdens LGBT teens face, mentally and emotionally, and says that she, as President, would support a community in which its members are valued and supported as whole people.

In schools, Clinton calls for mentoring and health programs, along with efforts to instill understanding and tolerance among administration and students to combat bullying and foster acceptance.

http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/Hillary_Clinton_addresses_gay_teen__0125.html

This is in stark contrast with Obama, who featured "ex-gay" performers at his South Carolina fundraising concerts.

[Creideiki]

204. I was in the military when DADT came about

The Clinton agenda, which in many ways was put together by Bill and Hillary together, suffered a huge hit from the attempted integration of the military. Without attempting the integration of the military, Hillary's original health care plan would likely have made it (although probably watered down--I think she shot for Mars hoping for the Moon), but after the support of gay people, the social conservatives in the Democratic party revolted and let Bill know in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't get what he wanted. There are still a lot of gay people I know that are bitter over the whole deal because it wasn't the ideal solution (and has backfired in some ways when conservatives decided to interpret everything in the narrowest possible way), but it's still better than what we had--I don't think a lot of people really appreciate that perspective, but I had friends get kicked out of active duty and NROTC and harassed because of a perception of sexual orientation before DADT. And I think a lot of people don't realize that DOMA was the inevitable and best possible outcome from the defeat of the integration of the military; instead they look at it as a betrayal.

[terrya]

51. The arrogance of some people here is amazing.

Particularly since I'm not detecting a huge amount of interest in GLBT issues, period.

[NMMNG]

95. The arrogance is astounding

And the way they marginalize "LGBT issues" is appalling. LGBT issues encompass our entire lives. This isn't just about what we do in bed. It's about our jobs, health care, housing, protection from hate crimes, our families, and more.

They just don't get it. :banghead:

[sueragingroz]

17. yep and Obama was "right" to have an ex-gay stump for him.....

I get it.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Where Did I Say That? Please be Specific.

An "ex-gay stumper" is not nearly in the realm of a million dead in Iraq from the war Clinton supported.

[jackson_dem]

100. Joe Wilson put that Obama myth to rest

[rodeodance]

110. He sure did--but did you note that some Obama people threw him under the bus?

[jackson_dem]

115. Anyone who resists the Obama machine must be eliminated

[MannyGoldstein]

127. And Which Myth Is That? nt

[Whisp]

68. erm no. They have a right to ask for anything they want.

and I must say that the McClurkin (sp?) thing had me a bit worried about what Obama really stands for. But then again, there are forces out there that confuse and lie.

The Clintons have been in a position to make good positive change in the the lives of gay people,
Did They Do It while they had that chance?

That's what I'm askin.

[MannyGoldstein]

97. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Was At Least As Bold As

Harry Truman's integrating the armed forces.

:sarcasm:

[rodeodance]

141. Do you recall Sam Nunn, a dem who was on some investatory committee at that

time? he went to a submarine to look at the bunks of the sailors--the closeness==remember you can catch it--it is a disease--
anyway that photo was publish is newspapers. i recall it to this day. I think it did much to scare people--dems included. Bill did his best to get a bill passed.

[Jamastiene]

144. McClurkin.

We know what we are talking about. It is you who is wrong.

[question everything]

193. And, of course, you are the high priest in charge of who is "wrong"

:sarcasm:

[Thepricebreaker]

219. Bingo! n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

229. straight people have the right to be asses. free country and all.

[terrya]

2. She has gotten some impressive numbers of gay and lesbian endorsements.

Sheila James Kuehl, a state senator from California and a great fighter of GLBT issues for us, also endorsed Clinton a few months ago.

I won't make any comments about lost chances.

[LostinVA]

131. I didn't know Zelda endorsed her!

[Sapphocrat]

138. Yeah!

That might just be my favorite endorsement. :)

[LostinVA]

183. Even Haruka knows who Zelda is -- she rocks!

[TheDonkey]

6. I'm gay and "SUPERdelegates" do not speak for me so SORRY to disappoint you

I can make up my own mind on who I want to support. Just because someone is given a special title should not make their vote any more important than mine.

[terrya]

9. No one said that they did.

Bluebear posted a link to a story from the Washington Blade. I assume he can do that, right?

[Bluebear]

Well, write the Washington Blade & tell them, it's their article.

So SORRY to dissapoint (sic) YOU.

[UALRBSofL]

56. Bluebear do you remember who the Blade hired a few years ago?

Remember that guy, forgot his name, a shill reporter for Bush. He didn't last long. If you go to his site, he bashes any democrat.

[Bluebear]

88. Oh man, Jeff Gannon

aka "Bulldog", the Bush-lovin' hooker.

[dsc]

90. This paper did endorse Obama, it should be noted

Yep, the editor who hired the vile Gannon endorsed Obama.

[Maven]

111. You know who hired him? Chris Crain, now an Obama supporter

As soon as Crain left the Blade, Gannon was fired.

Crain is the ex-Log Cabin d-bag and Clinton-hater extraordinaire who spent his career defending assholes like Gannon and other hypocrites like Richard Curtis.

Of course, Obama followers on DU LOVE to cite Crain as an example of more "reasonable" voices within the GLBT community. :eyes:

[David Zephyr]

18. The great majority of my gay and lesbian friends support Obama.

Bluebear can't accept this and has an axe to grind against Obama that will never stop.

I feel sorry for him and hope he won't be too let down when Barack Obama is our nominee and when he makes the GLBT community proud.

[NJSecularist]

21. Pretty much.

It's pretty clear what the intent of this thread was. This particular poster has an axe to grind against Obama.

Barack will make the GLBT community proud when he is president.

[laconicsax]

140. You mean by nicely asking the Republicans to support giving them separate but equal status?

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. those 12 are .0015% of the overall superdelegate total.

[Bluebear]

13. So you are obviously saying "who gives a shit" to what I thought might interest people

After all, we were told that "nobody outside of DU" talked about McClurkin.

[terrya]

19. Gosh...a story about gay delegates...and I'm gay...

but it's no big deal, so I shouldn't really care.

So, so, helpful around here.

[THUNDER HANDS]

20. 12 out of 21 is about 57%, which means 43% aren't supporting her

and those who are supporting her could be supporting her for reasons completely unrelated to her stance on gay rights.

But the point was, a sample size of 12 is not a large enough number to make a statement about her support among any group of people.

[Bluebear]

23. No, 43% are unannounced. She has 12 now and Obama has 2

And your first reaction? Is it "how can his candidacy reach out to gays more effectively?" - no, it's, those people are only .0012% anyhow. You might learn something about yourself from that reaction.

[THUNDER HANDS]

30. you're the one who's making a statement based off of a sample size of 12 people

you are projecting what all gay people, which probably number in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in this country, to what these 12 superdelegates have decided to do with their vote - which may or may not change at a moment's notice.

On top of that, the other seven who are uncommitted currently ARE NOT supporting Clinton, so I was correct when I said they - and the two Obama superdelegates - comprise the 43% who are not supporting her.

[Bluebear]

37. I merely posted a news article from today. It's you who are dismissing it. Ciao.

[THUNDER HANDS]

48. I'm dismissing because it's not represenative

I'm not dismissing it because it's about gay people.

[TheDonkey]

45. Obviously this is a sign that the GLBT community is in love with Hillary

12 out a few million have endorsed her! Wowee

[whopis01]

196. What type of math are you using there? You are off by a factor of 1000.

There are 796 superdelegates, 12 out of 796 is 1.5%, not .0015%!

[Olney Blue]

24. Interesting- thanks for the post!

[Bluebear]

28. Thanks for reading :)

Hopefully, the Obama campaign will do some soul searching and ask why this is. Meanwhile, Clinton should be happy for the support and remember it.

[Olney Blue]

38. Bluebear

:yourock:

[islandmkl]

25. how is she doing with 56-year-old beach bums?....

who cares what share of ANY DESIGNATED GROUP of Superdelegates either of them have? Hillary or Barack...if it comes down to the Superdelegates picking our candidate we are screwed. Oh, wait a minute, we are SUPPOSED to be screwed. My mistake.

[Bluebear]

29. So gays and beach bums are equal constituencies in your eyes?

You are mistaken, alright.

edit: spelling

[jackpan1260]

26. And Hillary has a big lead in the rightwing extremist endorsements

Coulter, Beck, Limbaugh and Murdoch.

I'll take Obama, thanks.

[Bluebear]

32. Coulter, Limbaugh etc have not "endorsed" her and you know it.

[NMMNG]

49. You mean the very Republicans Obama is "reaching out" to?

Hillary doesn't want to work with Republicans nor is she taking endorsements from them. Unlike your hero Obama. He wants to work with the Republicans and sing Kumbaya with them while they fuck us over.

I'm not going to get stung by the scorpions because your guy is to damn stupid to know better.

[Maddy McCall]

33. K/R

[KAZ]

35. Well, I'm not gay, but this is an issue about Obama that bothers

me. I'm not willing to wait any longer for equal rights.

[Reterr]

36. k&r-in my personal experience the GLBT community is solidly for Senator Clinton

:bounce:

[NMMatt]

53. But Why

?

[Bluebear]

60. Welcome to DU, NMMatt

Well, the Donnie McClurkin debacle did not help Obama.

[Creideiki]

206. But definitely not unanimously

Kind of how neither candidate is getting unanimous support among any subgroup of Democrats. I can't speak for anyone else, I just know why I'm supporting the person I am supporting.

[ShortnFiery]

41. DAMN, now we have it all at DU: Sexual Orientation Baiting?!?

How sad. :(

[terrya]

43. And some people would think this is an interesting article.

I guess it just doesn't really matter, eh? Those gays and lesbians and who they support?

[Bluebear]

52. What a surprise you posted what you did.

"Baiting" :crazy:

[ShortnFiery]

66. But it is divisive. The more you try to SEGREGATE the electorate, the more you create chaos

and chaos only benefits "entrenched power."

Whatever problems you have with Obama, I think that he will listen?

[Bluebear]

74. He already didn't listen.

He was begged not to put "ex-gay" acts on stage to preach about how Gos cured them. Obama ignored those please. His campaign said "we got what we needed out of it". Then the next day, Obama referred to it as a controversy which happened "a while back". I have no trust in the man when it comes to GLBT affairs.

[ShortnFiery]

86. Someone disappoints you ONE time that is not truly "clear" and you jump ship and never forgive?

I just don't get that mindset. You really don't know how many good people will work in Obama's Executive Branch. PEOPLE who will listen and incorporate your concerns.

I just don't understand what seems like "resentment" that is not IMO, well founded. :shrug:

When I was with one of the first waves of Women Officers being, for the first time, incorporated into The Regular Army (liquidation of the Womens Army Corps), I experienced "in my face" sexism and men who literally hated me because I could run a mile in boots in under 7 minutes. Women were not supposed to be as good.

No, I don't know what it's like to be gay and it is a unique experience. However, I know what DISCRIMINATION feels like and I don't understand your inability to give people "a second chance."

I just don't get that?!? If I despised all men who treated me like crap, I would have imploded. I did convince a few men that "women can be effective leaders" but I had to let go of resentments because holding on to "such vitriol" will emotionally "eat you alive." No, I just don't understand your mindset.

Please at least consider giving Obama's campaign another chance? :hi:

[dsc]

102. I know you aren't speaking to me

but just how many chances should they be given. Also, shouldn't they at least have to ask for second chances? Obama has yet to even admit what went on let alone admit it was wrong. The first step of forgiveness is admitting one is wrong.

[ShortnFiery]

133. Well, when it's been clearly delineated. All I'm asking is that we have a full conversation with

the Obama advisers / future leaders before we BELIEVE that "an Obama Executive Branch" would be homo-phobic? I would help enlighten our civic leaders from my HUMAN perspective and dedication to continuing with our Civil Rights Movement. :shrug:

One of my issues - Women's promotion advances in the Military = Women can be fighter pilots in the Military and be in combat via recons with the Military Police yet they can NOT serve in other combat MOS's where many would qualify via physical stamina tests.

IMO, those of us who have experienced DISCRIMINATION should all *work together* in order to lift up all human beings toward equality.

[David Zephyr]

135. "How many chances should they be given?"

Since you are proclaimed Christian with your avatar, I will quote you what Jesus said and it is from your New Testament in Matthew 18.

21: “Master,” said Peter, “if someone close to me does me wrong, how many times should I forgive? Up to seven times?”

22: Jesus answered him, “Not only seven times, but seventy-seven times.

The animosity that some are harboring against a good man and friend of our community is wrong. To continue to do so is to "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."

Barack Obama is a friend of our community.

[dsc]

191. Jesus also talks about repentence

the first step of which is admitting what you did wrong and asking for forgiveness. Obama has done neither one.

[Creideiki]

207. So convince me.

When did Obama put expend political capital in support of the gay community? When did he propose new things that pushed the bounds even for his own party?

One of the occasional progressive talk show hosts here in Denver said that the main concern should be looking at whether a candidate would veto legislation s/he didn't ask for from the right--meaning that it was more progressive than they were willing to support. Right now, my conviction is that one would veto from the right, and that's not Hillary.

[Zenlitened]

112. How you ever survived the recent round of tombstoning...

... is a Mystery for the Ages. It truly is. :wow:

[ShortnFiery]

159. Not true. I'm being polite and appropriate - if you try to "divide and conquer" it's *baiting*

I know that I've been too harsh in the past but this truly IMO, qualifies as "Sexual Orientation Baiting." That's just my opinion/observation. :shrug:

[Hoof Hearted]

194. What utter crap. Do you EVER make any refrences AT ALL to gender, race, age or sexual orientation

when you extol the triumphs of the mighty Obama in certain states or demographics? OF COURSE YOU DO. If only they had a word for that. Oh, that's right, THEY DO!

It's called hypocrisy, and near as I can tell, you're one of it's finest practitioners. You deserve some kind of trophy.

Here's an award befitting someone who would chastise a gay person for posting an article about gay delegates.




.

[Straight Shooter]

46. Thanks, bluebear. Those super delegates are in good company. n/t

[islandmkl]

47. read bluebear's post #29 and you will see the genesis of the OP...

funny how someone can feel like the aren't getting their due from society (which I would say the gay community isn't)...yet has no problem comparing the "equality of constituencies"...nice 'we are all equal' approach

[Bluebear]

57. Then they can read your snarky post which prompted it.

Yes, we are all equal, or should be.

But the GLBT constituency is a recognized group of people. What inequailty do 56 year old beach bums share? Your post was dismissive and, frankly, a little dumb.

[crimsonblue]

58. I find this totally logical

the difference in gay delegates, that is. Clinton support "marriage" but Obama only supports "civil union". I would assume most gay men that vote based on this issue alone (not that this is the only issue) would vote for Hillary. Is this reasoning correct?

[UALRBSofL]

75. Bluebear is the bomb ! ! ! !

:yourock:

[thesubstanceofdreams]

178. Clinton does not support marriage

She mostly dodges the question when directly faced with it. As a matter of policy both candidates support civil unions.

[KoKo]

61. "Gay" Super Delegates? You Gotta BE KIDDING ME!

WHAT?

[Bluebear]

62. Um, superdelegates who identify as gay, what's the mystery?

[UALRBSofL]

104. Well, I kind of figured Barney Frank was a superdelegate

He's kind of the token gay person in congress. When I was working for the Navy in Bethesda I went to Ciao's and met him there once.

[Chovexani]

197. The mystery is how that poster functions without meds

This is the same woman that was all over the Larry Craig threads crying about how homos were on the prowl for TEH CHILDREN!!!11one in public restrooms.

[shaniqua6392]

65. Thanks for posting the article Bluebear.

Please pay no attention to those who care more about a stupid politician than they do for the civil rights of the GLBT community. They would not see the truth if it smacked them in the face. They are blinded and filled with excuses.

[Politicub]

78. I dislike the tone of the Obama supporters dissing the audacity of GLBT folk, but

I love that there are gay dem superdelegates!

:kick:

Oh, and fuck McClurkin and the ex-gays!

[TheDonkey]

89. and thanks to Hillary for pioneering DOMA and DADT! That's fantastic.

Because according to her, being first lady was experience so thanks for the help getting that signed Hill.

[Politicub]

92. Nope - you're wrong... but that's ok. It's not a surprise.

I don't get some of you Obama supporters. You get Bill and Hillary Clinton confused. They are two different people. I have the pictures to prove this.

Why don't you use facts in your arguments, not the innuendo of stupidity?

[Little Star]

94. Bluebear, What Politicub said! Just make that....

double-fuck McClurkin

[Beregond2]

109. Gay...

OK, here's my two cents.

First I AM GAY! So let there be no mistaking where I am coming from.

I have read all the stuff about Obama supposedly being anti-gay that was linked here. The reasoning is: if he is remotely connected with someone, that means he agrees with them on every single issue. Absurd. By that reasoning, there has never been a candidate in the history of the planet that was worthy of anyone's votes. It is particularly ridiculous when applied to a candidate who has made it plain that part of his philosophy is to try to reach out to perceived "enemies" and build bridges.

Further, the writer of these pieces is ignoring the fact that Obama has made endless pro-gay statements, often in the very heart of what we think of as anti-gay environments. Ever hear Hillary do that? Hardly. She is too busy calculating her words to appeal to and appease whomever she is speaking to at that moment, to hell with integrity.

As someone else pointed out, to use these fanciful associations as reason to vote for a woman who thinks nothing of supporting an illegal and unjust war in which hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered, is almost unbelievably selfish and cruel. There are more important issues than the paranoid imaginings of a few gay people.

I know gay people very well, and I am sorry to say that the ones who are most likely to be politically vocal are usually the worst of the lot: self-absorbed yuppie scumbags, who care nothing about what is happening to anyone outside their incestuous little circle. Of course these types would be for Clinton. What do they care about the gay people in uniform, who are usually working-class in origin? What do they care about the destruction of the American working class? Eeiuw, those people have no taste! They were very cozy in the nineties, with their infotech jobs and their BMWs.

And there is this: they are also usually racist to the core. If you want to get to the real heart of this anti-Obama feeling among this kind of gay person, it comes down to race. Sadly, this is even true among too many black gay people. If Obama were an out gay man with a corporatist yuppie agenda, they would still find reasons to oppose him.
The bottom line is, he is just "not their kind of people."

It pains me to rail about my own people in this way, but I have seen so much of this, and it sickens me. With too many gays, as soon as they got a tiny piece of the pie, they couldn't wait to become just as selfish and bigotted as their own oppressors had been. I'm not saying all are that way; but so many of the ones who presume to speak for me are just like this.

But there are millions of working-class gay people in this country who have seen the results of the Clinton policies: ruined lives, ruined careers, ruined families. They are more interested in supporting a candidate who doesn't have a history of betraying them whenever it is politically expedient, and toadying up to the corporate leeches who are sucking the life from this country.

Obama may not live up to all he promises; but at least he promises more than we ever got under a Clinton. And that's a lot more important than the presence of a few bigots at his rallies.

[ruggerson]

117. So all gay people who oppose Obama are now racists?

I nominate this for stupidest post of the month.

[sueragingroz]

126. apparently ;) n/t

[Sapphocrat]

122. I'm sure you "know gay people" about as well as you know Sanskrit.

I'm a middle-aged, under-the-poverty-line, working-class lesbian who cares very much about gay people in uniform, and wouldn't be caught dead behind the wheel of a BMW on a dare.

"Incestuous little circle" = you sound very bitter about something, and I'm glad I don't know what it is that's made you loathe gay people so much. I'm not part of "your own people," whatever that's supposed to be, and I thank God I'm not.

I don't believe a word you say. But if you really are gay, I nominate your post as Year's Most Revolting Example of Internalized Homophobia.

Utterly pathetic.

[NMMNG]

130. Could you have crammed more stereotypes into one post?

First I AM GAY! So let there be no mistaking where I am coming from.

First off, I think you are lying through your teeth.

I know gay people very well, and I am sorry to say that the ones who are most likely to be politically vocal are usually the worst of the lot: self-absorbed yuppie scumbags, who care nothing about what is happening to anyone outside their incestuous little circle. Of course these types would be for Clinton. What do they care about the gay people in uniform, who are usually working-class in origin? What do they care about the destruction of the American working class? Eeiuw, those people have no taste! They were very cozy in the nineties, with their infotech jobs and their BMWs.

You know them from where, bad television? I know plenty of gay people and don't know anybody like that. I wouldn't own a BMW if I could afford one--which I can't and never could. I've been working class all my life and have worked since age 14, often at multiple jobs. I worked more than 20 years with developmentally disabled and mentally ill adults as well as in a family shelter. It's the same for every LGBT person I've been close to. They've all been in pink collar, blue collar and other service sector jobs. So much for your "yuppie infotech" bullshit. And you've probably had more sex partners in one year than I've had in my entire life, so don't be pulling that "slut" meme.

It is particularly ridiculous when applied to a candidate who has made it plain that part of his philosophy is to try to reach out to perceived "enemies" and build bridges.

Yes, the old "reaching out" canard. Funny how Obama refuses to "reach out" to racists. Obama calls for racists to be fired (Imus, Tanner) and won't have them on his campaign. But he hires homophobes to preach homophobic bile to other homophobes and calls that "reaching out". I call that bullshit. Let me know when Obama hires David Duke to "reach out" to some white supremacists and we'll talk.

And there is this: they are also usually racist to the core.

How quaint. You even managed to throw in the race card. Fuck off. I'm no racist. I've got dozens of reasons I'm not voting for Obama and the color of his skin isn't one of them. Go bash somebody else.

[LostinVA]

134. Oh, I am soooooooooooooo sure you're gay

:eyes:

[Politicub]

136. I kept expecting to see a sarcasm tag in your post

but sadly, I didn't. So you think gay folks who don't support Obama work in IT, drive a BMW, have selfish/bigoted tendencies and are racists? Did I capture everything?

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. You are a DU gem.

:puke:

[beachmom]

91. So getting thrown under the bus twice by the Clintons (DODT, DOMA) isn't enough?

Okay, fine, do what you need to do, I guess.

[jackson_dem]

101. GLBT folks know the context DOMA was passed in

Clinton fought a rearguard action that helped GLBT folks down the road. If it weren't for DOMA we would have a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. Which is easier to correct? A statute or a constitutional amendment?

[Jamastiene]

173. Sizzle.

Damn yer good. That question answers the other question perfectly. Thank you. :thumbsup:

[cooolandrew]

93. Their sexuality shouldnt come into it really just more division really by media it sounds.

[Sapphocrat]

123. So there should be no demographic breakdowns by race or gender, either?

Or are you in the camp that believes being gay shouldn't "count" the way race and gender do?

[hedgehog]

96. So, the two super delgates who are supporting Obama, are they

self-hating or what?

[calteacherguy]

105. Gays will appreciate the Obama Presidency. He will be a great advocate. nt

[LostinVA]

137. 'Cause he'll be tolerating us

[calteacherguy]

143. He'll be a great advocate of your rights. nt

[ruggerson]

107. Rick Stafford should tell the Obama supporters who are pressuring him

to go fuck themselves.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ruggerson]

113. Because they disagree with your choice of candidate?

insert the word "black" where you have "gay" and you may begin to see why you sound like a bigot.

Or maybe not.

[QC]

116. That's apparently the one unforgiveable sin among the Obamatologists. n/t

[Reterr]

121. "as soon as I see the letters "GLBT" around here, I just come to expect a bunch whiny brats"

Wow :eyes:....

[ruggerson]

129. Dr. Funkenstein has passed on

a moment of silence is in order

[NMMNG]

139. More like a moment of celebration.

I'll let you know why soon. Check your PM.

[no name no slogan]

114. Good for her, but not unexpected

Obama's actions have not exactly been encouraging to GLBT citizens (yeah, McClurkin, I'm looking at you).

Unfortunately, I don't think Clinton is much better on this issue. DOMA, DADT, etc. She talks a good game, but it all seems to "Clintonesque" to me. Maybe that's because I'm used to Clinton promises not kept in the 1990s.

IMHO neither of the major candidates are very good on GLBT issues, especially compared to what we had in 2004 with Dean and Kucinich, who actually seemed to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. I'm quite disappointed that the field has been narrowed to these two, who seem to be the least progressive and most corporate-friendly of our candidates.

But then again I'm a straight, white, partially disabled male. YMMV.

[burythehatchet]

132. CLINTON LEADS HANDILY AMONG SUPER GAY DELEGATES??? WHA??

That's what I thought it said at first. :rofl:

[robbedvoter]

147. Considering all the "fruity" and "Twinky" epithetis from Obama supporters on DU

I'd say, the gay delegates are well informed.

[davidinalameda]

149. Clinton leads among gay super delegates

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=16588

Twenty-one openly gay Democrats have been identified as super delegates to the Democratic National Convention in Denver this summer, and 12 have declared their support for presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton.

As of this week, just two of the gay super delegates had declared their support for presidential contender Barack Obama, while seven were listed as undeclared.

Under party rules, super delegates — who consist mostly of party activists, Democratic governors and members of Congress — are not obligated to commit themselves to any candidate and are free to switch from one candidate to another.

[Sanity Claws]

150. but who leads among the super gay delegates?

[mcctatas]

151. Sometimes I think we take the demographics thing a little too far

just sayin'

[davidinalameda]

152. why?

as a gay person, I want to know who the so-called GLBT leaders in the party are supporting

[mcctatas]

155. I just think all of the talk and analysis of primary results has

been way overdone...I can see how LGBT demo may be different, but as far as white male catholics in Maryland? Of course I have no personal experience of belonging to any minority group (well I am a woman, but there are more of us than those with a broken chromosome even if we are not equal) so maybe I am too easily dismissive of the importance of this...or maybe not (and since I can't type in tone of voice, please know that I'm not being sarcastic or dismissive...just honest about my thoughts)

[Sapphocrat]

166. Breaking down demographics to the nth degree...

...e.g., Latinos between 35 and 40 years old who have two children, drive American-made cars, and live in the suburbs, was at the very basis of Karl Rove's brilliant strategy to conquer voters, one neighborhood at a time, by gathering extremely detailed information and targeting his (or rather, Bush's) message more precisely than any guided missile.

If you don't believe me, go Google Rove and his mass-marketing background. His fetish for just such statistics is one of his greatest assets. And the Democratic leadership, IMNSHO, has foolishly not taken that page from his playbook -- perhaps because it's human nature to reject an idea if it comes from the enemy. (Rove's the enemy, all right, and he's a brilliant and stunningly well-organized enemy.)

It's a shame for Obama that it's much to late for his campaign to have taken a clue from Rove's data-crunching; as you can see (in other threads tonight), he's not reaching blue-collar workers / white voters without a degree, whose votes he needs.

And it's not because "blue-collar workers / white voters without a degree" are stupid -- a vile smear I've seen more than once here tonight. :mad:

[yeswecan08]

153. Gays are not exactly representative of America - same with the Clintons

[Bluebear]

154. 'Gays are not exactly representative of America - same with the Clintons'

No. You didn't have the gall to just post that, did you?

[davidinalameda]

156. we're not

we don't care about good schools; we don't care about good jobs; we don't care about safe streets; we don't care about health care; we don't care about keeping the world safe

wait a minute, we do


enjoy your stay

[theHandpuppet]

161. I think I've figured it out

We're not like other Americans BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY FUCKING RIGHTS!

Yeah, that must be it.

[davidinalameda]

165. we have rights

they just vary from state to state

[theHandpuppet]

168. And in some states we have none

Visit my neck of the woods sometime.

[davidinalameda]

170. I grew up in West Virginia

why do you think I'm living in California?

[Zuiderelle]

188. "they just vary from state to state"

and don't vary at all on the federal level. I've yet to see one state be able to offer the same rights as every straight American has at the federal level. Doesn't even come close. And it saddens me to see any gay person pretend that it's an acceptable substitute.

[NMMNG]

157. There are as many of us as there are Blacks

Almost as many of us as there are Latinos.
We outnumber Asians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Jews, Seventh Day Adventists....


You shouldn't be so quick to discount LGBTs.

[cboy4]

158. I hope you wiped your ass good after you just shit all

over gay people.

I wouldn't want you to soil your autographed Obama undergarments. :puke:

[theHandpuppet]

160. Someone please tell me I didn't just read what I think I read

Am I really on DU?

[donheld]

163. you have some 'slainin to do with that asinine statement.

:grr::grr::grr:

[Sapphocrat]

167. Aside from the fact that that is a baldfaced lie...

...is that supposed to make it OK to tell us to fuck off, or what? What's your point -- generously assuming you have one?

[Duncan Grant]

169. And not a single Obama supporter condemns you for saying it.

Not that I'm surprised. :eyes:

[NMMNG]

175. That's because they're all thinking the same thing, no doubt

There's no other plausible reason.

[Zuiderelle]

189. That's depressing.

[Creideiki]

208. Check post 163 /nt

[MonkeyFunk]

171. Yay!

A new one for the buddy list!

[Jamastiene]

172. Spoken like a true homophobe.

Uhm, hey, asswipe, I live in "real" America, you know, down here in the south. I happen to care about many issues you do not even know about. Quit stereotyping me and go back to hell where you belong.

[QC]

186. And like a true Obamazombie.

Anyone who has not had The Big Epiphany is evil and must be destroyed.

[Bluenorthwest]

182. So typical of the Obama boosters

I wonder if they train them this way officially?

[QC]

185. I think it's mixed in with the chanting and sleep deprivation. n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

195. Holy Shit! Better to allow people to think you're a totally bigoted asshat

than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.


:wow:


Welcome to my "buddy" list. Here's hoping we all get a slice of your pizza soon.

[Chovexani]

198. I see the Audacity of Homophobia is still alive and well

Who'd have thunk Asscarrot is still the number one flavor of koolaid in Obamatown?

[southern_dem]

215. nvm

[TankLV]

162. can you blame them?

gay bashing and bigotry pushed ME into Clinton's camp - obama's REPEATED pandering to anti-gay bigots will tend to get you that...

[ShortnFiery]

164. Then Gay folks please don't go into the Military becasue it will remain, "Don't ask, Don't tell?"

:(

[MonkeyFunk]

176. And you know Clinton

opposes Don't Ask, Don't Tell, right?

[ShortnFiery]

179. But will she actually DO any more than the Clinton before her to change that horrid policy? eom.

[William769]

174. K&R!

[terrya]

177. And...also in the Washington Blade

Interview with Hillary on a wide range of subjects relating to GLBT issues. She also mentions Obama and the McClurkin debacle. I think this is one reason why Hillary seems to have more GLBT support than Obama. I wish he would do this kind of conversation, as it were, with the GLBT community. If he does, I don't hear it.

Link to interview.

http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=16508

[theHandpuppet]

180. Thanks for passing this along.

:hi:

[terrya]

181. You're welcome!

I read a snippet of the interview in the Chicago Free Press...the gay and lesbian weekly here. I wanted to read the whole article and thought some here might be interested. :-)

:hi:

[QC]

184. He might get fagcooties.

Like could have happened to him if he were seen with the mayor of SF.

[BigDDem]

187. Maybe team BO can offer them free tickets to

a McClurkin concert.

[Cameron27]

192. K&R

:-)

[Iceburg]

199. Hillary's open message to the GLBT in Our Chart...

http://www.ourchart.com/node/299303

...
My father was a conservative Republican, who held very traditional views for much of his life. Yet in his last years, it was a gay couple who lived next door who provided much of the compassion and comfort he and my mother needed as he grew ill. And it was that same neighbor who held his hand as he died. If my father can move, America can move.

To each and every LGBT American, I say this. You have done so much to help this country understand your lives by simply being open and honest about who you are and living your lives with dignity. Thank you for your courage. It is time that we recognize your hard work. I know that this country is ready for changes in the law that reflect the evolution in our hearts.

America deserves a President who appeals to the best in each of us, not the worst; a President who values and respects all Americans and treats all Americans equally no matter who they are or who they love. I want to be that President. I want to be your President.

--------------
A beautiful letter that brings me tears of joy.

[Sabien]

200. which way are the vegan super-delegates leaning? n/t

[AtomicKitten]

201. ... or the super-gay delegates? (nt)

[Bluebear]

202. Ah, are vegans a similarly oppressed minority group to you?

[NMMNG]

205. Isn't it nice how they pooh-pooh our rights

or, rather, our lack thereof?

[Sabien]

209. na

neither are gay super-delegates...

The headline made me chuckle is all

Peace.

[Sabien]

210. meaning

I assume that all super delegates are treated the same - whether gay or not.

[avrdream]

203. I didn't know that.

Thanks Bluebear.

Wish I could have recommended it but I didn't see it when it came out.

[Unsane]

211. What have the Clintons done for gays?

[Bluebear]

212. Hillary just made an impassioned speech to gay teens, trying to stop the alarming suicide rate

that "ex-gay" messages tend to exacerbate.

[Unsane]

213. So, she made a speech? What about President Bill?

Hell, Obama's made glowing references to the LGBT community in many of his speeches too. You'll have to do better than that. What have the Clintons specifically done?

[Bluebear]

216. Bill is not running and show me one "GLOWING" reference to the LGBT community by Obama.

[Unsane]

217. Again I ask: what have the Clintons EVER done for the LGBT community?

Aside from Don't Ask Don't Tell and DOMA.

[Creideiki]

218. Unsane, pardon the personal question...

but were you in the military in 1992-1994?

[mondo joe]

220. Opposed anti-gay discrimination in every federal agency but the uniform military; appointed

he first openly gay ambassador; apointed the first openly gay sub cabinent member and more openly gay federal appointees than all the Presidents who came before of after him combined. He vastly increased funding for AIDS research, AIDS treatment, and AIDS prevention.

[Unsane]

221. Wow. So nothing, then. Btw, AIDS isn't a 'gay problem'

it's a human problem. Bush, FWIW, has been pretty good on AIDS funding.

So, Bill appointed two gay people to low level cabinet positions. I'm impressed! :sarcasm:

[mondo joe]

222. "Nothing"? I listed things that were very important. And at that time, AIDS had not been

properly addressed and gays suffered as a result.

You might not think these things matter. A lot of gay people found them noteworthy.

[Unsane]

223. Color me underwhelmed.

He took away rights with DOMA and DADT, and you're impressed with the appointment of a gay ambassador? I guess the bone he threw you was sufficient in its size...

[mondo joe]

224. Are GLBT people and issues actually a top priorty for you? Or are you looking for

political scratch?

Your interpretation seems rather different than that of actual GLBT people I know.

[Unsane]

226. The truth is a top priority for me.

[mondo joe]

227. Please don't confuse your take on things with the truth. The truth is that Bill Clinton

advanced the cause for GLBT people, as most GLBT people recognize.

The truth is that GLBT dem voters have favored Clinton over Obama by about 2 to 1. This is reflected in HRC's national survey, as well a exit polling.

You are free to have your own take on Clinton on GLBT isues - but when you differ so with actual GLBT people you might pause to wonder why.

[Unsane]

228. I do wonder why, as you haven't shown me a damn thing that the Clintons ever did for GLBT folks

Other than appoint an ambassador.

[mondo joe]

230. You're being dishonest. Look again at what I wrote. Under Bill Clinton gays were welcomed into

public life for the first time EVER in federal government. DADT was a compromise but an advance at the policy level.b AIDS - which is still a significant issue for gays - finally received attention.

I don't think you're wondering WHY GLBT people favor Clinton - you're arguing against why we should. That's not the same thing.

[IndianaGreen]

214. Let's see, Barney Frank, the man that dropped the transgender from the ENDA bill

Yep, no wonder he is a Hillary man!