What happens to the south for us if we nominate and/or elect Obama?

[DiamondJay]

One of the reasons I am against Obama is that if we nominate and/or elect him, we will never have a chance of coming back in the South. Not to mention once we are the "obama party" we will lose all our house seats there. they have not changed or will change their ways. And i am talking about an electorate that isn't just Democrats who are open minded as the Dem primaries. I am talking general elections. Where will we go vote-hunting afterwords for popular votes and some electoral, what happens to our image? Do we go back to being the party of "only caring about black people and no one else", leaving behind real economic ones? if we elect him for four or eight years, the we may lose that 42 percent of the vote we do get in the south. This is why I'm against Obama. Not that they love Hillary in the south, but shes more likeable there than Obama. I don't care if he wins the primaries there in which only liberal dems vote and the blacks vote for him to support "their own"

[meow mix]

1. eh

whatever... i dont even want to explore this one.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. are you kidding

Obama gives us the best chance we've had to capture at least three or four southern states since Clinton ran in 92.

He could win Louisiana, Georgia, Virginia, Florida, any number of southern states. He could put a lot of them in play, at least.

[appal_jack]

77. This N. Carolinian will gladly work on behalf of Obama!

An Obama candidacy will inspire me to organize and agitate.

A(nother) Clinton candidacy will garner my vote (of course) but nothing more.

Sorry, but it's the truth!
:hide:
-app

[kerry-is-my-prez]

89. Hillary won Florida by a wide margin - Obama was the only one w/ ads here too.

n/t

[Iceburg]

99. Not good /nt

[KoKo]

3. HELLO! Seems the SOUTH really LOVES OBAMA! What are you talking about?

:shrug: when Jerry Falwell's Virginia goes OVERWHELMINGLY for OBAMA...you don't need to be asking HOW the SOUTH will go? :shrug:

[theaxe7]

8. That was the Democratic primary, a Democrat won

Obama cannot win Virginia in a GE.

[KoKo]

21. Isn't Falwell's "Controls" Dead? Aren't his supporters looking for Hope and Change?

How long can his DONATIONS keep going when they see their lifestyle is going down the drain? At some point even Falwell and the rest of his followers can see that their "message is dead." :shrug:

[NMMatt]

29. And when he does...

Will you quit setting your sights so low from now on :). This is an election that changes the map. You people have tasted too many defeats it is amazing how demoralized and pessimistic you are.

McCain appeals to the Jerry Fallwell Virginia about as much as Obama. No they won't vote for Obama, but they are unlikely to vote for McCain in large numbers if at all. Obama increases the African-American vote substantially. The northern burbs are trending blue. Not only can Obama win Virginia, I'd put it in toss-up right now. Look for the first polls (of course polls can change, but they are your baseline after all). Virginia was not that red last time 54-46. All it will take is to depress the Fallwells, Up the AA's, and pull in the swings.

[earthlover]

43. He sure can! And he has the support of a lot more VA Democrats to help him than Hillary does!

VA is definately in play. Kaine and Webb are testaments to this. The demographics of VA are changing with more influence from the Northern Virginia voters.

Hillary, in VA as well as in other Southern states, will rally the Repubs to the polls in record numbers to vote against. Obama appeals to the independents.

PS...the South has a lot of black voters. Historically they vote Democratic overwhelmingly. But their voter turnout is low. Don't you think that would change with obama as the nominee? So you add this to the increase turnout in general Obama has encouraged, especially among the young....and you factor in that McCain only barely won VA....Obama certainly can win VA.

Not too long ago people were saying ....seriously....that Obama would not have a chance in south Carolina.....

[theaxe7]

56. Obama will rally the right to turn out against him just like Hillary

moreso perhaps

[DiamondJay]

9. he wins in the DEMOCRATIC primary

a general election has more than just open-minded white liberal dems and blacks who vote based on color. you are forgetting the GE contains non-dems as well, the vast majority are white, so they're not gonna go for obama on his skin color. my point is he will fare horrendously with that crowd, especially cuz the number of people who are non-dems greatly exceeds number of registered dems

[MikeNearMcChord]

27. Most Bigots aren't going to vote for a woman let alone an African American

hell all Karl Rove has to say GOD, GUNS and GAYS and most of them will lick Sen McCain's balls. I am not worried about those who are so backward, that they are still stuck in the mid 19th century(if not the middle ages), and vote against their best interests. F*** them lets concentrate on those who are at least willing to open mind, on the issues.

[NMMatt]

32. They did't vote for Kerry either

But you look at some of the margins in the South last time, and you realize that if you depress the Bush Evangelicals (which McCain seems to do, not to mention the demoralization that has hit the Repubs in general), you increase the African Americans, and some of these states are in play. Even South Carolina - suprisingly (such a high AA population, though you'd really have to decrease the Evangelicals there). I'm telling anyone who will listen :)... Obama's playing nearly everywhere this year.

[MikeNearMcChord]

35. And a good point from Rachel Maddow

Even Hillary's numbers are beating the Republicans. People have had enough of the GOP. Good point there Matt have a heart.

[coalition_unwilling]

100. If Obama plays his cards right (and I have every reason to believe he will

based on his record until now), I could foresee a landslide blowout equal to Reagan over Mondale, Nixon over McGovern or FDR in '32. I really think the country is living through its own 'Hoover moment' right now and the opportunities to forge a long-lasting and large coalition are enormous this year.

[trayfoot]

60. There's one problem with your assessment.........

In the southern states who have "gone" Obama, the supercharged dems were voting ------ not the general population. While I have not decided who I want (my candidate was Edwards), I am realistic about the possibilities in the south. I am not saying that Obama cannot win, but it is NOT going to be a "cakewalk" - and the bigots will make their presence known.

[Jamastiene]

75. Yeah, in a Democratic primary vote, but the General Election is a whole

nother ball game. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. The General Election hasn't even started yet.

When the General Election gets under way, just wait until you see THAT cluster fuck of hate and racism in the Republican campaign in the south. Stick around though. You haven't "seen it all" until you've seen that shit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Heh

"Not that they love Hillary in the south, but shes more likeable there than Obama."

Not according to the voters she isn't.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. I know, that was my favorite part of it.

I'm guessing the OP doesn't live in a red state.

[thunder rising]

6. If I lived in a place that full of bigots I'd move. Somewhere when the vote stealing stops the

liberals will have the same majority as elsewhere. But you have to vote, or you're just a parasite.

[earthlover]

45. I have lived in the north and in VA, and I can see with my own eyes no difference in the bigotry....

In the north it is subtly disguised, but still there.

There is a stereotype of the south that is based on myth. If you actually lived here and had lived other places too, you would see that there are more similarities than differences.

[unsavedtrash]

55. ...

:thumbsup:

[Jamastiene]

79. You do, dipshit. Florida is number 1 (tied with Alabama) in number of hate groups...

"Significant trends reported
Among the major trends reported by the Intelligence Project:

*Hate moved south, largely driven by the rise of the neo-Confederate movement over the last few years. In 2000, Alabama and Florida led the nation with 39 active hate groups apiece; Texas came in second with 38."

http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=120



http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=FL&m=5

[Firespirit]

7. Oh, that's brilliant

Have you ever lived in the south? I'd guess not, since you marginalize it as "there." But according to your wonderful plan, we should only nominate white people, because those ignorant southerners will "never change."

One thing is for sure, racists WON'T change their ways if they are never exposed to other races. How many racist parents have seen their kids marry a "brown person" and come to change their views after they become grandparents? Any number of DUers can provide such anecdotes for you.

And, incidentally, your use of the expression "special ethnic interests" says a LOT. Pray, what are these special ethnic interests we've supported?

[w13rd0]

10. "the blacks"

Gotta love seeing that. And this is from a supposed Democrat. I have to ask. Is your objection to Obama because you are a racist, or is it because you support someone else and are just fishing? Other than that, your post is full of complete shit. "Where will we go vote-hunting"..."do we go back to being the party of special ehnic interests" Wow. Hillary really doesn't need your kind of support, she's a better candidate than that. She doesn't need people like you stooping to this very thinly veiled racist bullshit...

[Firespirit]

23. I think what he's trying not to say

is that we lost the South for supporting civil rights in the 60s, and he regards that as a mistake. That's the "special ethnic interest" he refers to and it is shameful.

[DiamondJay]

38. i don't think civil rights was a mistake

I think it was the right thing to do, but this is different. when I said "special ethnic interest" i mean the image we gained by taking so long to reform welfare and by being soft on crime, altho I am strongly against 3 strikes. They feel we abandoned the white working class, and with Obama, it will bring back all the racial tension from there. Racism is built into many southern whites. Once they have a face to put their hate upon, for which Obama will be the poster boy, it will hurt the entire party down there.

[MzShellG]

42. Hello....

Obama is BI-racial. How does that ONLY benefit black people? Why don't you think he'll be a president to every American citizen? I don't think his proposed policies favor my race any more than whites, latinos....etc. Moreover, the people you speak of would feel that way about ANY black candidate/president, especially if he/she isn't even bi-racial. Are you saying a black person should NEVER be allowed to be a democratic president?

[EffieBlack]

66. Black people are black people. White people are people.

Get it?

[earthlover]

49. "down there" is just about as inflammatory as "you people"....

I get tired of this smug northern bullshit. And I grew up in the north! Come down here and live for a month or two. It might change your entire attitude. Until such time, just let it be said that you don't know shit about the South.

[hill08]

67. there they go again---RACIST

Don't expect this trick to work in GE....Republicans will use the race card and laugh in his face.

[FrenchieCat]

73. YOu mean the people that wanted Colin Powell and Condi to run

or racist Democrats on this here board?

[David Zephyr]

74. LOL! That's the beauty of racists, they never cease to provide contradictions to their own logic.

You are the best, FrenchieCat. :hi:

[goodhue]

11. Obama will do way better in the south than Clinton

So your concern is kind of misplaced

[Exultant Democracy]

62. No shit, they hate the Clintons more then they hate anyone no matter the race.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. It'll still be there.

Aside from that, your assumption that all Southerners are racists who will never vote for an African-American (notwithstanding Obama's great successes in states like Alabama and Georgia) kinda borders on racism itself. It might even cross the border.

[ecstatic]

13. Thanks for your concern

Still here, eh? :eyes:

[TheDonkey]

14. Maybe it is time you laid off the sauce

That rant made no sense and was backed up by no evidence.

[Rowdyboy]

15. Have you ever been ANYWHERE near the south? Help me Jebus, what an idiot!

[DiamondJay]

26. yes i even have family in georgia

and they will not vote for obama because of his race. and they are new york transplant former liberals who live in Dunwoody GA. my point is that in the GE, south is still the south. saying obama can win states like ga and sc is like saying because jesse jackson won those primaries meant he woulda won those states in the general. bill clinton was right on.

[earthlover]

51. Obama can win VA, Florida, Loisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Kentucky for starters

[knowledgeispwr]

28. I don't think the OP has been to the South

or they haven't been here in 20 years.

Talk about painting with a broad brush.

And "special ethnic interests?" What is that crap? Supporting civil rights for ALL Americans?

[calteacherguy]

16. Why do you think Obama would not carry the South???? nt

[DiamondJay]

22. cuz in the GE, the south is still the south

in those states, and the non-liberals and non-dems, which greatly ournumber democrats are still southern people. could jesse jackson, who won the primaries in 84 and 88 in the south win the south in the general election in that year? i don't think so. many are forgetting a democratic primary is a primary, not a general election.

[calteacherguy]

82. I think you are forgetting Obama is not Jesse Jackson

and this is 2008, not 1988.

[stahbrett]

25. People who won't vote for a candidate just because they're black...

My suspicion is that most of those voters are in the small percentage of folks who think the current president is doing a great job.

[dansolo]

65. ..are the same people who won't vote for a candidate because they are a DEMOCRAT

I suspect that a lot of the racists down in the south wouldn't vote for a woman either.

[stahbrett]

68. Agreed! (eom)

[ColesCountyDem]

17. 'The South' isn't monolithic or mindless...

Sen. Obama would do well in some places, and not so well in others. Frankly speaking, that will happen to ANYONE our party nominates.

[mckeown1128]

18. So basically you are saying that we shouldn't vote for

Obama because he is black and that the racists...won't understand. I think you need to stop being worried about the party's "image" as you put it. There is nothing WRONG about nominating a AA or Woman or Latino or Homosexual or Native American for president. That is what seperates us from the other side. It is NOT about "image" it is about doing the right thing for the country.

[MadMaddie]

19. Hunh?

The South is not soley comprised of Whites, there are huge black and latino populations, huge populations of women.....

I think you have it backwards....The South (where I grew up) Republicans and many Dems have a pure hatred of Hillary....so bad that when they see either her or Bill they start foaming at the mouth.


And finally, your comment on "Blacks supporting their own" is ridiculous, there are many blacks who support Hillary.
You imply that Blacks are not capable of discerning which candidate represents their interests.

I for one voted for Hillary in our caucus in WA but in the end I will vote for the Democratic candidate whomever it is.

And Finally, Finally....um last time I checked states like Wisconsin and Washington state have a 2-3 % black population...the majority of Obama voters were White males and females, all classes and all ages.

You must be watching Faux news....

[knowledgeispwr]

31. I agree

I live in NC and there are plenty GOPers and Dems with irrational hatred for the Clintons.

It is LAUGHABLE to say that of the two Dem frontrunners, we need to worry about OBAMA having trouble in the South.

I think either Clinton or Obama would make a fine president.

[MadMaddie]

34. I agree both of our Candidates will work out just fine.

[Radical Activist]

20. A 30% increase in black turnout will help a lot of Southern Democats.

Plus, Obama has plenty of experience appealing to white voters. Not everyone white person in the South is a racist, you know.
I think he has more appeal there than Hillary. She doesn't exactly have what they call Southern charm.

[knowledgeispwr]

24. Have you ever been to the South?

You really think Hillary is more liked here (NC, for example) than Barack?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl:

btw, I think Hillary would make a fine president, but Hillary "more likeable here (the South) than Obama"????

For realz?

ROTFLMAO!!!

:rofl:

You're killin me!

Seriously though, your views of the South sound pretty steeped in stereotypes. The South is increasingly racially diverse, younger people aren't prejudiced like their parents were, and a significant amount of older people are changing their views.

As for NC, I think Obama has a much better chance of carrying my state than Clinton. There is too much (generally irrational) dislike for her and her husband here.

[Eric J in MN]

70. Bush beat Kerry by 12 points in NC, with a Senator from NC on the Dem. ticket.

We have zero chance of winning NC's electoral votes in 2008, regardless of whether the nominee is Obama or Hillary Clinton.

[knowledgeispwr]

72. I disagree about zero chance.

Besides the fact that the state demographics continue to change (more minorities, more transplants from elsewhere in the country, mainly from the Northeast and MidWest), there was zero campaigning here and there was some local resentment towards Edwards for running for president.

Also, Obama is much more charismatic than Kerry was. If voter enthusiasm can be maintained in November and the republicans remain depressed, it'll be a lot closer. You can't simply judge the chances in NC this time solely by previous elections.

[Eric J in MN]

83. Are you expecting campaigning there in 2008? NT

NT

[Independent-Voter]

98. Kerry had the charisma and ground game of a used snot rag.

That Bush beat him in 2004 tells you all you need to know about how strong of a candidate he was.

Hell, I voted for the guy, but really, there's no comparison between Obama and Kerry.

[islandmkl]

30. AYFKM? Hillary in the South? What f****** South are you talking about?

Many Southerners don't/won't/will never want a man like Obama to be President. You know the reason. But, Hillary is despised, if not outright hated in the South. What any of all that means is beyond me. We all better hope our candidate of choice can lead America out of this mess...Americans love winners, front-runners that we are. Whoever gets elected will be fine in ALL PARTS of the USA if the FIX THINGS. Southerners hate being broke and out of jobs and sent off to war instead of college as much as anyone anywhere else. It is folly to think Hillary has any advantage over Barack in the South. The broad South is not inclined to favor either of them at this point.

[George_Bonanza]

33. Turnout, turnout, turnout!

In some primaries and caucuses, Obama got more votes than the entire Republican field COMBINED. Obama will get most, if not all, of the Clinton/Edwards/Grave/Kucinich votes if he becomes the Democratic nominee, and even if all the McCain/Huckabee/Romney voters team up again him, he would still win. Unless Hillary becomes the nominee, there's no particular reason for the Republican electorate to become as galvanized as the Democratic one, and the turnout ratios will probably remain similar. Therefore, Obama's combination of drawing huge Democratic crowds as well as converting Indies and Republicans will triumph over McCain's milquetoast moderate crowd.

[Freida5]

36. It is more basic for me right now. We should control both house but with Obama we the Senate

and the Presidency

[GodlessBiker]

37. "the blacks"? Time to ignore.

[sniffa]

39. What a garbage thread

I expect no less, but just a point to other DUers... if you see this DUer's profile appear, he most likely got banned.

[southlandshari]

46. Agreed

No moon pies for him.

:thumbsdown:

[sniffa]

54. I'd say moonpies for him

but you know how I feel about moonpies. :loveya:

[southlandshari]

78. this isn't garbage, it is twilight zone fodder

Do this many people here these days genuinely believe this crap?

Not good, not good at all.

[TalkAgain]

40. We will in many places in the South, places we never expected to win.

[cottonseed]

41. After this election, there's going to be a lot of dissapointed people.

All those convinced the South is lost, or that people won't vote for the black candidate. will be spending the first 100 days of Obama's administration wiping egg off their faces.

[onenote]

44. wow. So what do you think. Maybe we should recruit David Duke

He solidify our hold on the south.

:sarcasm:

By the way, congratulations on one of the stupidest AND most offensive posts I've seen here in a while, and given how things are going around here, that's quite an accomplishment.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. Wait a second, are you telling me that Obama is B L A C K ?

Oh no, I've got to rethink this whole thing.

Gee I sure wish somebody had pointed this out earlier.

[anigbrowl]

88. OMG! He has fathered 2 black daughters! With a BLACK WOMAN!

Why didn't someone tell me this before...I thought he just had a tan!

[K Gardner]

48. Oh, how sweet.. you're back with another Concern about Obama's skin color and "black states" !

[Obamaniac]

50. Stop being so racist DiamondJay...

You honestly think that Hillary stands a better chance than Obama in the south?

Drink kool-aid much?

[Occam Bandage]

52. Very, very good things happen. Obama's winning the South handily. He's attracting

independent and Republican support, and he's getting blacks out to the polls.

[mitchum]

53. Dann, you could light a cross on fire with this flamebait

What a fucking pathetic post

[jeffrey_X]

57. it changes?

eom

[johnnydrama]

58. VA

Why would Virginia vote for a Democratic Governor, senator, and then another senator this year, but not a President?

[jpak]

59. Oh Please - Southern Republics are eagerly waiting to vote for Hillary Clinton over John McCain???

Someone just fell off a turnip truck...

[Lex Talionis]

61. "the blacks vote"

Man, how do ya top that one. Well being one of them thar ignit droolin soutrn gud ol boys. I kin tells yew, we is ah voten fer Obama. Y jes yestidee me anna ol billy bubba an billyray bob , whiles we was drakin shine an ah gutten furry critters, was jest ah goin on bout us'ns majik negro an how we's wuz gonna vote fer im jest ta shew dem reelly smart folks up in yankee land how fer we's comes along down har.

I'll give ya this one Diamondjay. You have got to be a Clinton plant. Just not a very good. Because no rational thinking person on this board would have printed that. And if you think Obama can't take the South because he's Black shows how out of touch "you people" are.

Also to the one who posted that some of us live in the middle ages. You do realize that America did not exist then?
I'm off to take a shower, I feel dirty.

[kevsand]

63. Racism by proxy is still racism.

You are arguing that we should discriminate against Obama because others will do so. That is a racist position, and is unethical, unAmerican, and unDemocratic. You should be ashamed.

[aaronbees]

76. Well said and succinct

And you said it a lot nicer than I would've. :toast:

This racist BS is becoming a real drag, to say the least.

[alteredstate]

64. Huh?

n/t

[cloudythescribbler]

69. I wouldn't count on that prediction being accurate nt

I would guess Obama would run more STRONGLY in the south than either Gore or Kerry did (not that that's saying much). In particular, Louisiana is one state not usually thought of as a possible (like VA and No Car) that should be in play

[HooptieWagon]

71. Hey, the GE is on a tuesday...

... there's plenty of time to sober up after a weekend of watching NASCAR and drinking moonshine in the ol' singlewide to get to the polls and vote for Obama. :eyes:

[earthlover]

92. More southern stereotypes....it would be funny except some dumb sxxxs actually BELIEVE THEM!

[Thrill]

80. Who cares? Hillary isn't winning the south either

At least Obama has a chance to take VA.

[Johnny__Motown]

81. 50 state strategy, we have been working on this for 3 years now, what happens if Hillary wins?

Then 3 years work goes away

[FrenchieCat]

84. and we lose....like always.

[yeswecan08]

85. VA voted overwhelmingly for Obame --> the rest of the South will follow suit

[JCMach1]

87. a reality session with some inside RNC polling might be in order for you!

[DiamondJay]

93. he won in a PRIMARY

with open minded liberal democrats. non-democrats are not as openminded as dems, and they may be hesitant to back a man like Obama

[JCMach1]

86. The only southern state we would have a shot at would be VA...

Even FL is off the table if McCain takes Crist for VP.

Look at the electoral map and see where that leaves us? Kerry redux! We would have to take OH.

[MadBadger]

90. The Blacks...what street do they live on? Are they family friends with the Whites?

[MadBadger]

91. More shit from you I see.

[endarkenment]

94. Its been minutes since anyone mentioned that Obama is B L A C K

I am so glad you reminded us again. Short term memory loss is a terrible tragedy.

[democrattotheend]

95. Neither of them can win in the South, except VA

and they are just as sexist as they are racist. Besides, by your logic, we might as well just change the Democratic nominating rules to restrict the process to whites, since African American candidates are inherently unelectable. African Americans have been our most loyal voting bloc for 50 years...at some point, don't we owe it to them to take that chance?

[Independent-Voter]

96. You think HRC is going to swing the south?

I'll have whatever you're smokin'. Obama is killing down here.

/NC native

[DiamondJay]

101. no, but she won't completely ruin it for our party down there

as bad as Obama would. she'd get more of a popular vote than he would, which helps us politically, because the south is the south, and theyll vote hillary or anyone over obama. And i am NOT referring to liberal primaries.

[thevoiceofreason]

97. WARNING: LOGIC VAPOR TRAP