What's the big deal about Obama opposing the war from beginning?

[BlueStater]

Honestly, how difficult was it for him to be brave in BLUE STATE Illinois? It's not like he had anything to lose by being against the war. The fact that he still continues to fund it and no-showed a vote calling Iran a terrorist nation doesn't inspire me with much confidence that, had he been in the senate at the time, he would have voted against it.

So he was right about the war from the start. Big damn deal. So were thousands of others including myself. I don't think I'm qualified to be president either.

[blitzen]

1. Hillary knew that we were right but was too cowardly...

and too opportunistic to oppose Bush

[jackson_dem]

2. Look at his district, though. As Joe Wilson noted it was the most liberal in the state

It took real courage to stand up to his liberal constituents! When he got to the senate he showed this courage by making 0 speeches on Iraq until the middle of 2006 when he rose to opposed a withdrawal bill. Barack Obama: agent of change!

[MagsDem]

10. And you can bet that if Bush had succeeded....

No one have ever remembered his speech at all. It wasn't exactly risky to go speak to a few hundred people and a left anti-war rally. A "profile in courage" it was not.

[jackson_dem]

22. Yup and the speech is the only reason he is where he is today

Without it he would be another also ran who tried to make it to senator or governor and failed. He would still be voting "present" in Illinois if he didn't have the "courage" to appeal to his very Democratic district and set himself up for the senate primary if he decided to run.

[MagsDem]

29. You got that right

[FrenchieCat]

13. He didn't have a district...he was running for U.S. Senate.....

which takes all Illinois votes.

In addition,


OBAMA FIRST ADDRESSED THE IRAQ WAR IN COMMITTEE IN JANUARY 2005 AND ON THE FLOOR IN APRIL 2005, FOUR MONTHS AFTER ENTERING THE US SENATE

1/19/05: Obama Criticized Condoleezza Rice For Not Offering A Timetable, Reiterated That Job Of Senator Is To Confirm That Administration Is Making Decisions Based On Facts. During Condoleezza Rice's confirmation hearing, Obama criticized her for not offering a timetable. Obama said, "And I recognize that you are hesitant in your current position to provide a timetable. On the other hand, constituents and families in small towns all across Illinois need some more satisfactory answer than that. And it strikes me that this whole issue of training troops, turning over security functions to the Iraqi government is critical to that...I guess the comment that I'd like to make is that in the activist proactive strategies that you pursue, it seems to me that this administration often asks that we simply go along and have faith that you're making the right decisions. But I think that from the perspective of my constituents in Illinois, at least, a number of people did vote for George Bush and do trust him. But my job as a senator is to make sure that we're basing these decisions on facts and that I probe and not simply take it on faith that good decisions are being made.

4/14/05:Obama First Addressed The War On The Floor Of The Senate. Obama said on the floor,
"The other day I had the opportunity to visit some of our wounded heroes at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. I know that many of my colleagues have made the same trip and I'd heard about their visits, but there is nothing that can fully prepare you for what you see when you take that first step into the Physical Therapy room. These are kids in there. Our kids. The ones we watched grow up. The ones we hoped would live lives that were happy, healthy, and safe. These kids left their homes and families for a dangerous place halfway around the world. After years of being protected by their parents, these kids risked their lives to protect us. And now, some of them have come home from that war with scars that may change their lives forever -- scars that may never heal. And yet they sit there in that hospital, so full of hope and still so proud of their country. These kids are the best of America. They deserve our highest respect, and they deserve our help."


2005: Obama Spoke Out Against the War Repeatedly. During 2005, Obama continued to criticize the war, saying that security was "horrible", that the war never should have been waged, and that the US should get out of Iraq as "soon as we can."


2006: Obama Spoke Out Against the War Repeatedly. During 2006, Obama continued to criticize the war, saying that we should start phasing down troops soon and calling for an "expeditious yet responsible" exit from Iraq.
RHETORIC: "Yet, like most democrats, Obama voted to keep funding the war until last year."


REALITY: EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT HAS VOTED TO FUND THE WAR IN IRAQ
2005-2007: Since Obama Came To Washington, Every Single Senate Democrat Has Voted For Every Bill Funding Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan Until President Bush Vetoed A Timetable For Withdrawal – Including Both Emergency Supplemental Bills And Defense Appropriations Bills. Since Obama came to Washington in January of 2005, every single Senate Democrat has voted for every bill funding operations in Iraq and Afghanistan until President Bush vetoed a timetable for withdrawal – including both emergency supplemental bills and defense appropriations bills that included bridge funding with the expressed purpose of continuing operations in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.

---

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck2/2008/01/

[jackson_dem]

18. He was running two years before the election?

So was he running for president from 2005?

[FrenchieCat]

26. Yep.

[MagsDem]

36. Yep what? You think he was running for senate when...

the AUMF was voted on? Bzzt. Wrong. He got his ass handed to him in 2000 in a senate primary. He ran again in 2004. The AUMF was in 2002.

[FrenchieCat]

40. He was running for the Senate.....

In mid-2002, Obama began to focus on the upcoming US Senate race. The incumbent, Republican Peter Fitzgerald, seemed beatable, and it was not clear Carol Moseley Braun, who had held the seat before Fitzgerald, would try to reclaim it. Obama and his wife made a deal: This would be, as his wife puts it now, "the last hurrah."

At a few key appearances around Illinois that year, advisers say, Obama felt the magic again.

On a Saturday night in September 2002, the Pierre Menard Democrat Club held its annual membership dinner at a VFW hall in Sparta, where a few hundred party faithful paid $100 to eat roast beef and ham. Obama was a last-minute fill-in keynote speaker. He made the 650-mile round trip in one day, needing to be back for a church event Sunday morning.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/10/12/early_defeat_launched_a_rapid_political_climb/?page=7

[MagsDem]

51. He's running for 2004 race in 2002....

and that's not a guy that has spent his life calculating and calibrating? And they called Bill Clinton slick Willy. LOL!

[MagsDem]

20. The AUMF was in 2002

Try again. :)

[MagsDem]

21. The AUMF was in 2002

Try again. :)

[The_Casual_Observer]

25. Oh, and that was quite a difficult run!

[FrenchieCat]

28. More difficult than Hillary against Lazo in New York.

[MagsDem]

32. Yeah, beating Alan Keyes in IL must have been really rough

The world's biggest wonder boy with no real accomplishments. But hey, 3 yrs in the senate and he DID manage to get a post office named something or other.

[The_Casual_Observer]

34. That and some speeches written by some hipsters delivered baritone

are all you need.

[jackson_dem]

27. I stand corrected

Now why did he oppose full withdrawal until he began running for president?

[girl gone mad]

57. Compared to Hillary's courage in..

standing up to her constituents and voting for the war?

You know, the courage she hoped would get her into the White House, thousands of human lives be damned?

[MadBadger]

3. So what it is considered when you vote for the war in EVEN BIGGER BLUE STATE NY?

[jackson_dem]

23. Joe Wilson set the record straight today

[FrenchieCat]

33. He didn't do shit but secured his position as Sec of State in her

kitchen cabinet in New York....where she will remain a Senator. :eyes:

[jackson_dem]

35. Hans Blix was lying for Hillary in 2002 too?

Blix knew that without the AUMF there would be no inspections.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Then maybe she should have voted for the Levin Amendment! hey?

[jackson_dem]

41. Maybe she voted against it for the same reason Feingold voted against it?

Hey! Feingold voted against it for the same reason she says she did.

"Mr. FEINGOLD. Mr. President, I rise to briefly comment on Senator Levin's alternative proposal relating to Iraq. Some of my colleagues for whom I have tremendous respect have tried to address the fact that the administration's proposal is simply not good enough by emphasizing the desirability of a United Nations resolution, thus transforming this dangerous unilateral proposal into an internationally sanctioned multilateral mission. But while I recognize that international support is a crucial ingredient in any recipe for addressing the weapons of mass destruction threat in Iraq without undercutting the fight against terrorism, I will not and cannot support any effort to give the United Nations Security Council Congress's proxy in deciding whether or not to send American men and women into combat in Iraq. No Security Council vote can answer my questions about plans for securing WMD or American responsibilities in the wake of an invasion of Iraq. It is for this reason that I must oppose the proposal of the distinguished Senator from Michigan."

[FrenchieCat]

44. Link.......

And he voted against the IWR. Got that speech?

[emilyg]

43. Kitchen cabinet? Grow up.

[rodeodance]

48. What makes your think he wants a job?

[Straight Shooter]

42. BECAUSE BLUE STATE NY got hit by planes hijacked by terrorists.

Proximity matters. Did Obama ever visit Ground Zero? If he did, how long did it take him to go there? What did Obama do for the people of New York who were psychologically devastated by the attacks?

[MadBadger]

47. I'm Sorry, I was under the assumption that Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11

What was I thinking.

[girl gone mad]

58. New Yorkers were opposed to the IWR.

but Hillary had to consider other factors besides the will of her constituents.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. You still don't get it.

After all these years and you are still buying the bullshit.

[FrenchieCat]

4. New York Senator should have also known better......

since they knew as well as anyone that 9/11 and Iraq were not related. :eyes:

[MagsDem]

7. 80% of her constituents supported the war

Or did you forget that?

[ingac70]

11. 100%...

of this guys constituents supported it...

http://tnjn.com/2007/mar/26/rep-duncan-rails-against-iraq-/

It's all about judgment.

[MagsDem]

17. You're kidding yourself if you think Obama would have voted no

There is no way he would have risked his beloved presidential aspirations on that. Not a chance in hell. That's why he voted against troop withdrawals his first year in the senate, before the rest of the country turned on the war.

[girl gone mad]

59. No they did not.

You are revising history.

[Stephanie]

85. Provide proof for that assertion or stop saying it.

I don't believe you. I know a million New Yorkers marched AGAINST the war in 2003.

[Kahuna]

88. Not true. Proof please. I'll wait. nt

[MagsDem]

5. It's not going to mean a hill of beans come Nov

But he's put all his eggs in that basket. I don't think it's going to win TX, OH, and PA over, that's for sure. And there are 492 delegates up for grabs there.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Especially if Hillary is the nominee.....since she walked in lock steps with McCain.....

another election where going into Iraq is not an issue makes me want to puke! :puke:

[jackson_dem]

30. If security is not an issue we win Hillary neutralizes McCain on security and beats her domestically

[TexasObserver]

6. Hillary had the safest state, still caved, still sold out. That's the problem.

[MagsDem]

8. 80% of her constituents supported the war

Was she supposed to represent them or not?

[johnnydrama]

45. what?

this is a reason to vote for the Authorization? Because 80% favor it?

80% didn't have the facts, and believed what they saw on the TV. She had access to the facts, and refused to read the NIE, and believed the dog and pony show that Bush threw at Congress.

How did the 2 reporters for Knight Ridder, featured in PBS' "Buying the War" keep on reporting that all the facts about WMD's were bogus, yet this Senator with 35 years of experience, with 10x more information at her fingertips than any reporter could possibly have, believe everything W said.

[MagsDem]

55. So you buy into the Bush bullshit

... that the congress had the same info he did? That's just a bald faced lie on his part, as has been well documented. The biggest problem with Obama supporters is that repeat rethug talking points over and over and over, as if they were true. And Obama does it too. It's a big reason he should not be our party's nominee.

[girl gone mad]

60. Hillary's constituents opposed the IWR.

They wanted more time for inspections, a broad coalition and proof that Saddam had WMDs. Hillary voted for Bush's rush to war, against the wishes of the people who had elected her.

I don't know what makes you think you can rewrite historical fact. A lot of us were actually involved back then, in contact with Hillary's office on a regular basis.

Why do Clinton supporters keep making this foolish argument? You can't win. Your candidate was wrong for all of the wrong reasons. She betrayed her constituents, she betrayed our party, and she betrayed this country, all for personal political gain.

[Kahuna]

89. Nonsense. You can post it a million time more and it still won't

be true.

[JimGinPA]

9. The Point Is - Hillary Was WRONG!!!

And too ashamed too admit it.

[MagsDem]

12. Actually the point is Bush lied

To you, to me, to the press, and to every congressional rep in the country. Big time. Did you vote for Kerry in 2004? Of course you did. He was wrong too. Right?

[JimGinPA]

15. And He Had The Courage To Admit His Vote Was Wrong!!!

So did John Edwards, and nearly everyone else.

[MagsDem]

19. Not before you voted for him in 2004 he didn't

I was here you know. Nice try, but incorrect. :)

[grantcart]

78. Really that is the only point. If she had just said I should not

have trusted Bush, this whole issue would have been dead. It wasn't a major problem for Edwards. The problem is not that she was for it, but that it is perceived that her decision was that of calculation to be president and protect her flank, and that she cannot make a coherent response without a 30 minute discussion of the "context" of the vote.

I give her a pass on the war. I will not vote for her because she cannot make a simple declarative statement that it was wrong, period.

[sandnsea]

14. He also called out the Wolfowitz/Perle ideology

and that they were pushing it down our throats. He didn't just oppose the war, he called all the details of its inception correctly. Hillary not only believed every ounce of intelligence Bush touted, she repeated it to add to the fearmongering, and maintains the validity of it to this day. She's been wrong all the way around. She didn't just vote for the IWR, she supported it while only criticizing its execution. She didn't take a withdrawal stand until it came time to campaign.

[MagsDem]

24. Actually neither did he

He voted against withdrawing troops as a senator until it was time to campaign. Brave of him, huh?

[TexasObserver]

31. The big deal is we are Democrats, and Hillary votes Republican on key issues.

[MagsDem]

52. Like raising SS taxes that won't be used on SS

Oh wait, no. That's Obama.

[lligrd]

37. If You Can't Get An Issue Like An Illegal War Right,

why in the hell would anyone vote for you? I have yet to hear a good reason to support Hillary after her votes to allow Bush the right to ruin our country, illegally invade anther country and kill thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis. Exactly how do I forgive that?

[FrenchieCat]

39. Cause she's ready to vote for more war, this time with Iran,

from day one? :shrug:

[JackORoses]

46. It shows Obama is not a Flip Flopper, the favorite GOP smear tactic

[rodeodance]

49. O.=1. O.said NO, 2, then said he did not know,3, then funded, 4, decided to run for pres and said NO

whishy washy flippy floppin for political convenience! thats Obama for yah!

[MagsDem]

54. Now that is SOME flip flopping

Hell, that a flip, flop, flip, flop, flip

[ellisonz]

50. Judgment.

[oasis]

56. Obama's judgement of his pal Rezko was put on hold until after the goods were delivered.

:puke:

[ellisonz]

71. Hillary's judgement of her adultering Big Dog was put on hold until after the goods were delivered.

:puke:

[oasis]

75. You're welcome to re-run what ever Clinton flaw comes in to your head...

but you did get my point.;-)

[ellisonz]

81. How about the War in Iraq?

Obama may want to work with the Republicans for a better future, but Hillary capitulates at the sound of their words. :mad:

[oasis]

90. Hillary won't need to "capitulate" because she'll be running the show. Get it?

:eyes:

[Jamastiene]

53. Sizzle.

You burned their asses. Great post, especially this part:

Big damn deal. So were thousands of others including myself. I don't think I'm qualified to be president either.

[JCMach1]

61. You don't have to be so brave when your opponent is Alan Keyes

[boricua79]

62. it was very difficult

you could and DID get tar and feathered for not being patriotic.

I had problems at my place of work for being an anti-war activist in 2004. People used to ignore me in the hallways, etc.

It was hard to be someone who put human rights and international law FIRST, before "patriotism".

And it must have been harder for a non-white, liberal Democratic Senator with aspirations to be President.

Easy was going with the Republicans when the wind was going their way.

[Bongo Prophet]

63. It seems GDP has taken a very NEGATIVE turn, even for here in the last day or so. New FUD strategy.

New faces and new talking points.
"So Obama was right. BIG DEAL."

Where are any positive threads about Hillary?
Just when the cable pundits are saying she has to go negative, this board changes too.
Coincidence? Nope.

Should this make me, as a voter in Texas, feel really positive about voting FOR something?

[Warren Stupidity]

68. At least the seem to have been told to drop the cult bullshit.

The new talking points appear to be:

1) Obama is B L A C K
2) A vote for the IWR was a vote against the Iraq War.
3) Obama is not a Democrat.

[Perry Logan]

64. Let's just say Obama people are easily pleased.

[GalleryGod]

65. Nuttin' ...just great judgement.

TEX-as!


Yeah, like ANY thought uttered aloud against Hill/McCain's War was welcome in Fall,2002... City Council Candidates in Big Cities HAD to discuss the coming clouds of war.
Were you asleep??? Apparently.

[BlueStater]

77. No one gave a damn about Barack Obama in 2002 or knew who he was

This certainly doesn't excuse Hillary voting for the war but I imagine it was harder for her, one of the GOP's most despised individuals, to oppose the war than some obscure state senator who wasn't on people's radar.

[Adelante]

83. So it was hard, so what?

That's when you stand up and be counted. Or you don't. And if you don't, you have no business expecting to be rewarded for your failure. We're talking full out national disaster here, not renaming a post office, after all.

[mmonk]

67. It's rare these days to stand up for truth when it's unpopular.

[harun]

69. Hillay is DLC, they supported it from the start, still support it

and her trying to say B*sh and Condi tricked her by saying it was only to apply pressure is disingenuous because the organization she is associated with were all for it from the beginning. That and they are for more wars as well. She will be too.

[NJmaverick]

70. Your arguement only makes Hillary look worse

You are saying she was a coward or she failed to see what "thousands of others including myself" knew, invading Iraq was a bad idea.

[elixir]

72. Great point. This one issue doesn't hold up especially since Obama vacilated in 02.

[Exultant Democracy]

73. BLUE STATE Illinois? as opposed to what RED STATE New York?!?! keep spinning.

:rofl:

[DemGa]

74. Obama: "I got it right"

"On the single most important foreign policy issue of our time, I got it right," Obama said.

He got it right, but he wasn't there? LOL!! Credit the man with a slick presentation.

[HeraldSquare212]

76. He had nothing to gain by being against the war.

He spoke out against it anyway, even though he represented a city that was considered a potential terror target. I live in NYC, and I didn't hear many state or local representatives speaking out against the war.

[mrgorth]

79. Dumb

ass.

[BlueStater]

80. Thanks for that substantial and well-written response

:eyes:

[SOS]

82. Perhaps you should address your question to them:

No big deal.....

[Moh96]

84. it matters because it means you are not going with the popular vote just to help yourself

you are standing for what you believe in at the time it easily could have been a career suicide

Thats says a lot about his character

[Moh96]

86. remember freedom fries?

[Kahuna]

87. Hel-loo! New York is just as blue as Illinois. Duh.

:eyes:

[BlueStater]

92. I like it how everyone in this thread assumes I support Hillary Clinton

I think Hillary was wrong for supporting the war but I'm not buying this bullshit of Obama being an "anti-war" candidate.

[TheDonkey]

91. At the time nearly 80% of America was for the war and those against it were being called traitors

and far worse. You must have a short memory or have been living under a rock.

[BlueStater]

93. But not in Illinois.

And I don't think most people gave a damn about what some obscure state senator thought. I would have a lot more respect for Obama had he been a senator at the time and taken this stance.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

94. So, how did he and Hillary vote on the funding of the slaughter?

Neither will get my vote in November.