Check in here if Clinton-era "prosperity" left you in the cold.

[Jed Dilligan]

Did the massive amounts of fake new money pouring into your region or community make life unlivable for locals?

Did you get caught holding the short end of the stick when the gap between rich and poor increased exponentially, at an even higher rate than under Reagan and Bush I?

Was your family devastated by the incarceration explosion and the militarization of local police in the service of the corrupt Drug War?

Did your job move to China or Latin America?

Did you buy into the debt economy, only to face foreclosure and bankruptcy down the road?


Raise your hand if your personal experience indicates that the Clinton "boom" was a bust...

[BellaLuna]

1. This should be good

"...when the gap between rich and poor increased exponentially, at an even higher rate than under Reagan and Bush I?"


:rofl:


oh and :popcorn:

[Jed Dilligan]

4. Read it and weep

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2861454

[BellaLuna]

18. No weeping here... I know what I lived

If you didn't get your piece of the pie that doesn't mean the middle class in general did not fair better under Clinton than the assholes he was sandwiched between.

Things weren't perfect but they're certainly not as bad as the others.

Many people I know were able to buy their first homes, myself included, and were able get by just find. W comes along and all hell has broken loose. If you want to compare Clinton's economic policies to him then go ahead but if someone is doing better under W than clinton they're surely much richer than I can ever assume to be.

[Jed Dilligan]

25. The middle class is something I've never aspired to

If you just want to make a bare living and have other priorities ahead of home ownership, etc., a phony boom is the worst thing to live through.

[Leopolds Ghost]

54. Anecdotal evidence. You self-proclaimed "middle class" guys (3rd percentile) screwed the poor

under Clinton (welfare reform, elimination of public housing and the commitment to public schools, gentrification of affordable housing, closure of factories and what you call "old economy" jobs, closure of schools) and are proud of it.

On Edit: How many people in the 3rd percentile statistical distribution (most of whom call themselves "middle class") understand statistics well enough to understand how the Clinton economy was a ladder economy in which upward mobility was dependent on immigrants taking over the lowest jobs, separating the richer from the poorer? Education is such in this country that social class and bearing, not merit or intelligence, generate vast disparities.

[BellaLuna]

135. since you don't know me I'll tell you this

I was on welfare in the late 80s for a while after being disabled in an accident. Single mom with an 8 year old at the time. I went back to school because I couldn't return to the job I had. Got a degree while raising my son and working at the college I attended. Started work after graduation at lower pay than I thought I would get because of the the economy in the early 90s, but had the opportunity to work up and have. I now am lucky enough to have a good income and benefits and yes, I know I am lucky in today's financial climate.

I have been on both ends of the spectrum when it comes to financial status (well, never way up there but from nothing to a decent living). I completely understand what it means to have nothing and fear how to pay the rent etc - no one can lecture me on what it's like to be poor and unemployed. That being said - the opportunities were there for me and I took them and no apology will ever be given that I found my way to survival. The opportunites I had were not there under the Bushes and Reagan. So, what I take issue with is saying Clinton was no better when things were. Was Clinton perfect - no, but I'll take his economy any day over those he came after and before.

[aquarius dawning]

2. best years of my life without a doubt and I'd go back in a heartbeat.

[Jed Dilligan]

5. While you were living off the fat of the land

I was on the fucking streets. If the "boom" had gone on much longer I would have probably killed someone.

[aquarius dawning]

13. You're right. the past 8 years have been WAY better. That's what we've all been saying for years.

Right?

[Jed Dilligan]

29. Clinton's policies excluded me

and for that I will never forgive him.

[aquarius dawning]

43. How exactly did his policies exclude you? I seriously want to know.

Ubless you were in the Military or were a multi-millionaire supply sider, I don't buy it.

[Jed Dilligan]

44. I was young and poor, working temp jobs

I kept hearing about a boom, my rent kept going up, my wages stayed the same, I ended up on the streets and there was no welfare safety net left for me. Not to mention continual harassment by increasingly fascistic police. If you weren't already bought in to the middle class the Clinton "boom" offered worse than nothing.

[aquarius dawning]

56. I lived off of student loans and grants for the first term and joined the Army during the 2nd term

In the end, we have to make the best of the cards dealt to us. Clinton didn't really hand me any aces either but at least he kept the dealing fair which is more than I can say for Reagan or Bush.Clinton, like teddy roosevelt, gave working stiffs a square deal.

When I say I believe in a square deal I do not mean to give every
man the best hand. If the cards come do not come to any man, or if
they do come, and he has not got the power to play them, that is
his affair. All I mean is that there shall be no
crookedness in the dealing.
Theodore Roosevelt
Source:Speech, Dallas, Apr 5, 1905

[Jed Dilligan]

58. I didn't want a mansion or filet mignon every night

A room that I could afford to rent and not waking up to nightsticks jabbed in my belly would have been nice, though. Real nice.

But overvalued housing and aggressive policing win the votes of mean-spirited homeowners (most of the electorate), so I guess that was my "square deal."

[aquarius dawning]

68. It sounds like you're doing better with Bush's policies then?

I don't know what to tell you. I could have been where you were but I played my cards differently. I made my own luck mostly and I made my share of mistakes. I was raised by a single mother who worked as a church janitor during the reagan years and moved up to a post office letter carrier during Clinton years. She was the only blessing I ever had and God gave her to me, not Clinton. He took her away too during the Bush years. She loved Clinton so I suppose that taints my perspective. I don't know what to tell you. Keep struggling. That's what life is all about. Some of us have to struggle harder than others though.

[Jed Dilligan]

90. I hid out in grad school through most of the Bush years

The lessons of the Clinton years taught me to study something I wasn't very interested in but that would bring down grants. Worked my way to a PhD., no interest whatsoever from academic departments, now I have a consulting gig that basically fell in my lap--and no prospects come this fall.

[bvar22]

129. What you don't understand is that the Bush economy IS

an extension of the Clinton economy.
With the exception of TAX CUTS for the Rich, many of the Economic Policies are exactly the same....

* Deregulation of Energy, Banking, Lending, and Investment

* Privatization of the Commons

* "Free" Trade

* Concentration of Corporate Wealth and Power to the Big Boxes

* Enron (and the others), while officially collapsing under Bush were directly attributable to Clinton Economic policies.

* The rapid growth of the Big Boxes (WalMart) that have exterminatd locally owned "Mom & Pop" businesses ARE the results of Clinton Economic Policies.

* The continued decline of Organized LABOR and the loss of manufacturing jobs ARE Climton policies.

* The growth of Predatory Lending BOOMED under Clinton.

* The current Housing Bubble crisis occurred BECAUSE of the Clinton deregulating of Banking and Lending.


I've had enough of the "Clinton Economic Miracle".

[Recursion]

152. Other than the tax cuts...

...Bush hasn't changed course economically. This is the Clinton Economy (Now With Tax Cuts For Paris Hilton!)

The fundamental problems remain the same and this is what Nader was talking about when he said there's no difference.

We essentially sold off our manufacturing capability to fatten our stock portfolios. To put it another way, we took money from people my age and gave it to people my parents' age.

[flyarm]

123. not everything is the presidents fault..i was left homeless after the 94 Northridge earthquake..

my family was homeless..and we lived on mattresses in our back yard for over a month and went to the bathroom in buckets..and Clinton did extraordinary things to help us..we finally got a mobile home in front of our home that was red tagged that we weren't even allowed to go in..but the bottom line was ..we had to help ourselves.

How dare you blame anyone..were you capable of work? if you were why didn't you get permanent work? over 22 million got jobs under Clinton..

Clinton kept corporations from gouging those of us that lost everything in the earthquake..

too bad the people in New Orleans didn't have Clinton and James Lee Witt running Fema..and patrolling the insurance companies..and fighting the damn republican congress and Bob Dole who tried to fuck those of us who lost everything.

Now i didn't get much from Fema..but they were where they were needed..and they made sure the insurance companies didn't gouge us..and we were able to rebuild or move and keep our dignity.

My family was able to lift ourselves up ..we worked hard and we did without alot..and we survived..more important ..we survived...we were left with virtually nothing...

but we were safe and we fought through the most trying times of our life..i still can not talk about it or even type it here without tears...

I am not a Clinton fan today..but i will say this..that man helped my city when others would have given up..he got our city fixed in record time..he did not allow those who lost so much get gouged or hurt more by insurance comapnies..and he stood by "we the people"

he fought off that mother fucker Bob Dole who tried to fuck us even more ..


No one gets you through this life..unless you try to help yourself..no president is capable of taking care of each individual..you have to make the effort yourself..and you have to work damn hard to help yourself.

Stop making excuses.

You failed yourself..no one failed you.

fly

[H8fascistcons]

130. Fly, sorry for your misfortune but

you cannot take your experience and apply it to everyone else, one size does not fit all. You have no idea what other people have been through and how those experiences effect their ability to come back from a tragedy. Good on you for your comeback into society but i'm sure there are for example a few Iraq veterans with no limbs and burned off faces that would trade places with you and your tragic experience in a heartbeat, literally in a heartbeat....

[flyarm]

131. that is my point..i guess you missed it!..eom

[susankh4]

41. Best years of my life too!

At the end of the Clinton years, my house was actually worth something. Too bad... cuz I refinanced to keep my kids in school. And now... with property values decreasing and a crunch in the housing market I am screwed.

Unless we can get another Clinton... to clean up after another Bush!

[Jed Dilligan]

55. Your overvalued house = my homelessness

[Lorien]

109. Care to explain that?

and just what did you/ are you doing for a living?

[flyarm]

125. get over your pity party...no one gets you through this life but yourself..and if you can't help

yourself then you don;t want to!

stop with the damn excuses..

unless you are disabled..or mentally incapable of helping yourself..you just want a damn pity party.

and i suppose your life has just been fucking dandy with little lord pissy pants??????????????

fly

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. Housing is not a source of wealth.

Housing (a fixed resource, like gold) and stocks as the basis of an economy is a Ponzi scheme dependent on screwing a mass influx of immigrants, Third World export jobs, and the lower classes. It is a "trickle-down" model dependent on the concentration of global power in the hands of a few. It is a potlatch economy.

[Jed Dilligan]

59. Yes nt

[susankh4]

79. Well, it was for me....

And it did pay pretty well.

But... that was then. This is now. I am planning to retire soon, and could use a little boost in the housing market before I do.

I'm not an extravagant spender, by any means. And I am not trying to acquire "wealth." I just want to make ends meet.

[Leopolds Ghost]

85. The housing market is not a market, it is a commodity.

Invest in gold or another fixed resource.

Housing wealth comes ENTIRELY on the backs of the homeless and non-homeowners. It is a potlatch economy dependent on a relatively fixed supply trickling down to the very poor as the building itself depreciates, creating vast slums (this is according to national conferences of homebuilders.) Once your house is fully depreciated (i.e. a tear-down), your HEIRS or the person who buys the house will be in a financial and legal position to rent it out to the very poor. That is whyu people rush to sell before the house begins to depreciate, or refinance their existing gains to bump out an older house into an "historic" McMansion, a process of gentrification (reclamation of depreciated neighborhoods) which is dependent on zoning and bank policies designed to ship out ALL people who are not in the targeted income bracket.

Often the process is accelerated by the housing boom generated when long-time homeowners flee immigrant arrivals who are sent in to reclaim bombed-out underclass areas. A continual "upward and outward" ladder economy dependent on mass influx of very poor and mass, continuing suburban flight and destruction of America's most productive rural landsacape, with the black and native white underclsass used as a stepping-stone.

To quote the Washington Post, the "garden apasrtment" and the 2-6 story walk-up have been legislated out of existence, in most communities. All in the name of the "ownership society." The condescending goal is to build up the credit of the very poor so they can go deep into debt by becoming a homeowner at today's inflated values.

[susankh4]

100. I'm really sorry to break it to ya, but....

I can't live in gold. Nor can I raise a family in "other fixed resources."

For many members of the middle class, like myself, owning a home is the closest we get to "investing." And, for many generations... those investments have paid off.

I live in the city, man. In a 100 year old house that I have refurbished with my own sweat and blood. Don't tell me about 'McMansions" and depreciation. And investing over the backs of the homeless.

When I retire, I'll retire to the greenest city in this country. And live in a small apartment on a subway line.

I just want to be able to sell my home for what it is worth. Like the two families who lived here before me did.

[bvar22]

133. Your overvalued house IS a product of the Clinton Economy.

The Housing Bubble and Mortgage crisis happened because of the deregulation of Banking and Lending that occurred under Bill Clinton.
Most Middle Class homeowners were overjoyed when the "paper value" of their homes magicaly doubled and tripled in the 90's, and eagerly refinanced.
It was a pyramid scam. The Housing Collapse was inevitable.

Those Clinton chickens are coming home to roost now.

[eridani]

111. Just because the fire is bad--

--doesn't mean frying pans are good.

[bvar22]

134. Exactamente!

:toast:

[JuniperLea]

66. Hey, if our anecdotal evidence doesn't count...

Neither does yours. I don't know you. I don't know how smart you are, how driven to succeed... nothing. There could have been many factors in your inability to thrive during those years.

We had three kids and one small income but we were able to buy a small starter home (803 sq ft). I was able to stay home and care for the kids while they were very little. We pinched pennies, but considering what we were trying to do, we accomplished our goals.

[emilyg]

35. Best years of my life, too.

[pbca]

3. I would say neutral

I lived in the states under clinton, but I knew enough about technology not to buy into the dot-com boom. I would remind people though that on issue after issue - health care, NAFTA, welfare reform, etc., etc., Clinton went againt the overwhelming majority of Democrats and independents.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. The Bush 1 recession was worse than the Carter-Reagan one in 82-84.

You don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Clinton era was the only relief we had except a brief period when the oil preses dropped in the late 80's during the Iran-Iraq war. You are a nitwit.

[Hart2008]

10. Don't blame Reagan's '82 recession on Carter!

Since you are ignorant of history, Jimmy Carter left office in January 1981.

The '82 recession was the worst since the Great Depression.

Cue Billy Joel singing Allentown

That one belongs to Reagan, not Carter.

As they like to say, it happened on his watch.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. I fucking lived it out, I didn't read about it. Interest rates were 18%

during Carter. It was all about Oil. Things didn't improve until they opened the North Sea oil fields, the Alaska Pipeline & the Iran-Iraq war.

[Hart2008]

20. Why not blame Gerry Ford? Remember the Whip Inflation Now (WIN) buttons?

The recession was the result of Paul Volcker, the Fed Chairman, taking money out of the economy to reduce inflation.

The inflation problem didn't start with Carter, and the '82 recession occurred after Reagan's economic policies, i.e., tax cuts for the wealthy, cutting social security benefits, etc. were well underway.

I lived through it too, but I don't need to use bad language to talk about it like an intelligent person.

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Alright then, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan. The entire period

from 71 to 85 were very tough economic times. The only thing that saved it was the steep decline in Oil prices coupled with out of control military spending. Anything that Volker did was totally insignificant. Carter did nothing to improve the situation.

[Hart2008]

27. Read William Greider's "Secret's of the Temple" if you can.

He wrote about what Volcker did to stop inflation, i.e., taking money our of circulation, and how it hurt Carter politically.

[The_Casual_Observer]

36. Might as well blame Carter's problems on sunspots then.

[Hart2008]

40. Esentially, Volcker's Fed did the same thing that triggered the Great Depression. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

62. You're ignoring the fact that the US oil peak caused the 1972-1982 recession.

That is why the Trilateral Commission and all those other economic think tanks came up with the idea of offshoring American wealth-producing (manufacturing) jobs to countries where natural resources had not been sucked dry.

We are now at global oil peak.

Read James H. Kunstler and Amy Chua (a global finance economist).

[The_Casual_Observer]

76. That was my entire point.

[eridani]

113. When they temporarily stop kicking you in the teeth it feels better

But you haven't gained anything, either.

[griffi94]

7. i bought my first house

it was a bit of a mixed bag...but on the whole it was good...the last few years were tough

[griffi94]

9. sorry wasn't supposed to post that yet

should read the last few years have been tough.....2005 till now

[monktonman]

8. My company moved to Mexico....

Need I say more????

[aquarius dawning]

16. Should bill have nationalized your company for you so that wouldn't have happened?

What kind of company was it in all seriousness?

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. I detect a note of sarcasm. In truth, Bill and Hill encourage offshoring.

It benefits their wealthy investor class which power the New (trickle down) economy.

Recently Hillary and McCain both said that offshoring could not be stopped and globalization (offshoring) should not be stopped, that the US should move to a service industry model where the FIRE and professional classes represent the elite, feeding directly off the global stock empire while the rest of us sell each other hamburgers in order to afford Chinese-made products whose profits go in the hands of New York investors, who then buy yachts, whose distributors give lots of money to their kids to buy hamburgers with. Trickle down model. This was a serious concept and it is being applied.

Tell me, are you service class (the section of the working class, aka "red collar") that you want to retrain people in, or are you FIRE or professional class?

[aquarius dawning]

87. You aren't going to make it in this world unless you learn that adaptation is the key

to survival, not voting.

[HughBeaumont]

117. They sure do.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

A strong economy is supposed to accommodate EVERYBODY at a liveable wage, not just the heavily degreed and privileged.

Free trade is a moldy bill of Reaganite goods that benefits the CAPITAL of the country, not the labor. Retraining is a crock when you don't even know what you're re-training for, nor do you know that the career you choose isn't going to follow it's predecessor offshore or be subject to the wage-ravaging phenomenon spawned from . .. er. . . "competitiveness".

[eridani]

114. Not giving them extra tax breaks would have helped n/t

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robbedvoter]

11. Best years of my life! I so want them back!

[Blue_In_AK]

12. Financially I was doing just fine in the Clinton years.

My personal life sucked, but that's another matter. Can't blame it on the Clintons.

[bigtree]

14. raised my two kids into their 20's

during his two terms. Good union job (UFCW), good benefits, raises . . . Bush came . . . . . . . . .

[Johnny__Motown]

17. NAFTA sent my job overseas, yes. (not right away) It was still Bill's signature that did it

[Barack_America]

19. Lol. I'm from Michigan, so...

CHECK!

My hometown was wholly dependent on GM, so when their jobs went oversees, we all suffered. My mother, for one, lost her job due to this trickle down effect.

My extended family is a Ford family. Lots of lost jobs there, too.

[aquarius dawning]

21. GM's union forced them to outsource more than NAFTA

I believe in unions and fair wages but jesus, how can GM compete against China with the UAW hamstringing them at every turn. there was a guy at our foundry who dropped a bucket of hot grease and nails onto a lady's head from about 20 feet up. He was convicted of assault and he still has his fucking job. Another guy was arrested for DUI while leaving the parking lot after work. Think about that. He still works for GM but in a different state now. I could go on.

[Johnny__Motown]

34. With a tade agreement that is fair to U.S. workers, Do we all want China to dictate our wages?

Do you want your wages to be set by someone in China doing the same job?

[aquarius dawning]

42. I'm afraid it doesn't matter. China is kicking our ass and the smartest thing to do is to accept it

and adapt to it rather than cling to the old survival strategies that clearly will not work in this new economic reality. Let manufacturing go and get into the service sector or some other sector that has some security. I would much rather hear our next President talking about job training and adaptive re-education strategies than forcing manufacturers to stay in America because that's a bad plan for everyone involved (except China and several other emerging markets). Just my humble $.02 though

[Barack_America]

50. Yeah. Because they have zero oversight and regulation.

I don't trust their products. Have you read about how they substitute chemicals for medicines and how this practice has KILLED people?

If unsafe, poorly made products is how you get cheap labor, then I'm not interested.

(Also worker's rights is a whole other topic worthy of discussion)

[aquarius dawning]

61. Nobody likes it but, realistically, what are you going to do about it?

This is a fight we (all Americans)have already lost. You can roll with it or be destroyed by it but you can not stop it. The Chinese own this millenium.

[Barack_America]

67. Buy American? Reject the "consumerist" mentality?

There's lots we can do.

It's starts with shedding the addiction to cheap goods and starting to check labels.

Not trying to be preachy, I'm far from perfect in doing this myself. But I'm trying to make more of an effort.

[aquarius dawning]

74. I'll buy Chinese trinkets but major purchases have to be made in USA for me to buy them

and I don't buy too many trinkets. I think though that, actually, as long as we keep buying their crap, they need us. If we stopped buying their shit completely, our relationship with them would get even uglier real quick. The last thing we want is any kind of confrontational policies with China. They're a much bigger threat to us than we are to them at this point. Our current relationship, bad as it appears, is much better than the potential confrontational relationship that could easily arise if they no longer found us useful especially considering that they are now allied with Russia in more ways than one. far better to let manufacturers work with China and then promote adaptive policies for America's workforce. That's what the biggest problem has been with NAFTA and all the other free trade agreements, they didn't provide the neceesary re-education/job retraining for American workers. Had they done that, the whole free trade thing would be perceived differently by most of us.

[Leopolds Ghost]

71. Perhaps Hillary should say that on the stump. Do you work in the service sector perchance?

If so, do you want to get out of it? Why?? There are only so many real estate, stockbroker, computer programmer, advertising jobs (80% of all arts related "creative class" graphic design jobs are in advertising or R&D for products made overseas) before overall wages in tthe FIRE and semi-professional (degree-based) industries decline, too. You may say we can all benefit by making the poor homeowners and stock investors, too. But that doesn't work under the current economic model, which depends on the existence of an underclass (see: Alan Greenspan, Michael Lind). A mass influx of dollars into the stock market from the poor, designed to pump up the wealth of existing investors, would cause a "yeast effect" not just a bubble but vast amounts of hidden inflation because the vaule of poor people's dollars, once extracted from the stock, are dependent on how much owners of actual wealth (resources, oil, manufacturing capability) will exchange for them. And most of those folks are in New York or overseas.

[aquarius dawning]

82. Actually, this is one of the many reasons that I'm on board with Hillary

By dumping our tax dollars into the healthcare industry (instead of Iraq), I'm quite positive that millions of good paying, long lasting, secure service sector jobs will be created within the healthcare industry. This is where America needs to be putting its money, not in Iraq. Infrastructure improvments will be good for this too but to a lesser extent IMO. Hospitals are hurting for employees right now and it is projected to get much worse in the not so distant future.

[Leopolds Ghost]

88. Service sector jobs mostly hire immigrants to do grinding work at desperation wages.

Picking apart chickens, changing bedsheets, etc.

Working class (manufacturing) jobs and blue-collar building and maintenance jobs -- even trash hauling! are generally a step up from red-collar work whose conditions even in hospitals (and certaijnly in nursing homes, where most of that insurance money ends up -- warehouses for people whose life has been artificially prolonged beyond their inherent genetic disposition) are reminiscent of Upton Sinclair's "the Jungle" (precisely because the labor market is the same -- desperate immigrant arrivals who will not complain because any job is better than famine and death at home. And why should that comparison be favorable to the US in the first place -- are we inured to famine and death in non-industrial areas that are being raped and pillaged for copper, iron, diamonds, oil etc.? Where the subsistence farm economy has been destroyed by US exports (the one thing the US still produces for the world is grain, and all of it has been centralized in the hands of a few giant landowners) and now we're upping the price of corn by converting it into fuel after dumping it on the market to eliminate subsistence farms in Africa and Mexico and the arable, non-jungle parts of Brazil, and inflate the labor pool of migrant workers?)

[CTyankee]

93. This was essentially the point made by Matthew Miller in "The 2% Solution."

He proposed a plan very near to what all the Dem candidates are supporting, which includes the private health insurance companies. He says that liberals could learn to love it if it was characterized as a "jobs program"!

[Horse with no Name]

22. I am in a fortunate position

My job is pretty much unaffected no matter who is President.

I wasn't involved in politics when Clinton was President---but, I know people that died and lost their homes when Reagan was President so I was very able to judge by those things.

I had money to spend and a stable home when Clinton was President.
I could afford to put gas in the car.
I could afford to go to the grocery store and never HAVE to buy store brands.
I could afford to pay my electricity bill.

Your post is very unfair. President Clinton was a GOOD President. He may have even been considered great had it not been for his troubles.

I despised Reagan and the bookend Bushes to Clinton.

NAFTA was BAD. No doubt about it.

But there is ONE thing he did that has SAVED my job more than once and I am deeply appreciative to it.

FEMLA. I have a chronic illness and have to utilize FEMLA at least 4 times. It saved my job because I WOULD have been fired for excessive absenteeism. In fact, I was in the hospital for almost a month and had to fill out the papers to keep from losing my job WHILE I was in the hospital.

It is time that you Obamites started leaving Clinton's Presidency alone. If Obama is HALF the President that Clinton was, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Jed Dilligan]

26. Clinton policies excluded the young and the poor

to help established middle-class people.

[Horse with no Name]

30. And Bush policies exclude us all

to help the rich.

[Jed Dilligan]

32. So what? You think I'm for Bush or something?

Being against Clinton doesn't make you for Bush. They never even ran against each other.

[Horse with no Name]

37. You choose to slam Clinton

When he has been sandwiched by 3 of the worst President's EVER in history. So yeah...I think maybe you prefer THEM to Clinton.

[Jed Dilligan]

38. I hate them all

Clinton is exactly the same unless you are part of his protected "middle" class.

[Horse with no Name]

46. So YOUR alternative would have been

NOT to protect the middle class--THUS increasing the poor class?
What an embarrassing position that you are taking here.
It shows that you DO NOT understand social structure and HOW IMPORTANT maintaining the middle class is to that structure.
It IS important to take care of the poor and lift THEM to the middle class--but not by tearing down the middle class to do it.

[Jed Dilligan]

47. Your attitude is extremely condescending

I don't want to be "lifted up" into the middle class.

Bill Clinton presided over the worst years of my life and I will never support him or anyone connected with him in any capacity. He could have done a lot for the middle class without beating up the poor in the process. He could have practiced win-win politics. Instead, he sold out the poor to help the statistical middle.

[Horse with no Name]

49. Your attitude is willfully ignorant

The ONLY way the poor can move to the middle is to be LIFTED--either by education, job training, housing assistance, etc.

[Jed Dilligan]

51. Hmm.

Any help with education, job training, or housing would have been quite welcome in my life between 1992 and 2000.

So where was it?

[Horse with no Name]

52. You are baiting me to say something along the lines of

you didn't want to do anything about your poverty.
Not going to do it.
Continue with your bash fast.
I'm done.

[Jed Dilligan]

53. Baiting you? Hardly.

I asked you to cite one job training, education, or housing program that might have helped me under your hero's presidency.

If that's baiting...

[Recursion]

149. Didn't that HOPE tax credit make everything ok?

:sarcasm:

[Lorien]

106. Oh bullshit. I was young and poor when Clinton entered office

when he left I had a home and a six figure income.

I'm guessing you never lived through Reagan. I lived in a ghetto basement with one light socket back then. Nearly every meal was Ramen noodles. I remember applying for a busperson position at Bob Evans when well over 200 other applicants showed up. THOSE were tough times!

[HeraldSquare212]

24. I remember having to 're-apply' for my job over and over as the telecom I worked for kept merging

with other companies. There were certainly a lot of layoffs through that period.

[BigDDem]

28. I'd trade my 401k now for what I had in the Clinton years

any day....

[Jed Dilligan]

31. Lucky you. What the fuck is a 401k? Nothing I've ever had a chance

of obtaining.

[BigDDem]

45. Hopefully, that will all "CHANGE!" for you

good luck!

[Jed Dilligan]

48. I don't expect it to, but at least Obama isn't promising

to come after me with "mandates."

[Leopolds Ghost]

73. Or declaring that your jobs will inevitably offshore and that trying to prevent would hurt wealthy

investors. Clinton's economic model was identical to Reagans, but most young liberals who came of age in the 1990s don't realize that.

[aquarius dawning]

84. Keep trying to fight it and see how far it gets you.

Unskilled labor jobs are gone forever. lamenting about it will not bring them back. having the audacity to hope that they come back will not bring them back. I've never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. You adapt or you die in this world and America needs to learn that lesson quickly before America learns it the hard way.

[Leopolds Ghost]

89. Working class jobs are SKILLED labor jobs. Service sector jobs are UNSKILLED

learn your terminology.

[aquarius dawning]

92. What would you call an RN?

[BigDDem]

94. Where's your "HOPE!" for "CHANGE!?"

[Jed Dilligan]

95. Certainly nowhere to be found in Clinton's platform.

[Iceburg]

33. Best years of my life. Could travel anywhere in the world and be respected/nt

[Lorien]

104. Ah yes, travel! I remember that

The yearly visits to various counties in Europe, the weekend flights to Paris or Toronto, all when a dollar actually bought you something! People were friendly, too.


Thanks to BushCo's policies I haven't had a vacation since 2000. :-(

[backscatter712]

39. Mixed bag for me.

I was in college through most of Clinton's presidency.

On one hand, I did get through it with a bachelor's degree in Computer Science, which opened a lot of doors for me, and got me my current cushy software engineer job.

On the other hand, a lot of tech jobs got outsourced, which made it harder for me to find work, and I did have to deal with some long bouts of unemployment, underemployment and living in my parents' basement.

[Hobarticus]

60. I was doing quite well, as a matter of fact....

Sorry to bust your bubble.

[Jed Dilligan]

63. I know a lot of you were

and it was partly at my expense. Thanks.

[Hobarticus]

101. I'm unemployed myself right now, so no one's picking on you, alone

And it's not because mean ol' Hill and Bill sold my job to the Chinese. Jesus.

[Leopolds Ghost]

78. Anecdotal Fallacy of Perspective. How many DUers were NOT doing well in the 90's AND today?

Most of the affluent, extremely liberal netizens in my neighbnorhood are
even richer today than they were in the 90s when they made a killing by
abandoning the old economic model that supported the working classes.

After all, the value of their stocks has doubled since the Clinton administration ended. All that value is best expressed in either Chinese-made commodities or overseas currency (which is still tied to a solid traditional manufacturing sector.)

Which is WHY China is kicking the ass of limp-wristed free-trade liberals who refuse to stand up and fight for their fellow man.

[Tennessee Gal]

64. I did quite well, thank you.

[workinclasszero]

69. *raises hand*

I worked at a steel mill. Got to live the american dream for a while. Then NAFTA and other "free trade" agreements kicked in..

Steel mill was shut down due to foreign competition.

Now I make half the money, no pension, health benefits not as good and I pay more for them.

Yup I owe the Clinton's and their DLC cabal alot. I intend to pay them back every chance I get too. Voted for Obama in the primary and looking forward to voting for him in the GE as well.

Hopefully former high wage industrial workers in Ohio will pay Bill and Hill back soon as well.

Hillary has been a total disaster for working class Americans from her union-busting Rose Law firm/Walmart days till now.

[jeffrey_X]

70. Why does it matter in this election. What did Hillary have to do with the 90's

I don't get this.

[Jed Dilligan]

91. Maybe it doesn't but if I posted in GD

they probably would have moved it here.

[Radical Activist]

110. She claims its part of her 35 years of experience making change.

If her husband's Presidency is part of her experience then she can take responsibility for what happened.

[closeupready]

72. Economically, very good years for me personally. By other measures, an era of disillusion.

Clinton was the stereotypical yuppie as president - someone who, long ago, had been left-wing and liberal, but who was bullied into shedding many of those values or compromising them in the interests of politics. I, on the other hand, never was able to respect how he triangulated, and never liked him. Some people I know, however, did extremely well.

Let's put it this way - I would take Clinton over Bush I and II, but I think they are all part of the same problem. Obama represents a "Fourth Way" (to Bill's Third Way, lol).

[Lex Talionis]

96. Probably not a good idea to ask that question.

On this board anyway. People who love the Clinton's will of course want to back them up and in their minds, there right. Just like those who love Bush, They will tell you things are just fine. As for me. Made 18 dollars an hour in 1985, 100% blue cross blue shield coverage, in construction. Jump to 1995, sorry dude no work for you, got these guys from out of country who'll do it for a whole lot less. Got a job at walmart if ya want it, though.Got ajob in a factory for 9.50 an hour.
Present day, doing real well, insurance sucks but is adequate, taking production equipment out of this country, where machine operators made 20 dollar an hour, down to Mexico and South America. Same machines, different operators who make 1.50 an hour and work 12 to 16 hour days. NAFTA did that. Company says lots of work for the next 10 years doing that. Problem now is the weak dollar, its keeping the suits from closing 3 more plants that employ around 500. Want to send the equipment to China. So I guess the workers there owe Bush some thanks for that. Never ceases to amaze me ,that the Clinton supporters that I know, Make excuses for them about NAFTA. Like Bill was "bullied" and not paid. They don't call him "Slick Willie" for nothing How well, learned some good phrases in Portuguese and Brazil really rocks. Should be able to ride this out until retirement. One thing ol Ross told us to be true was, that giant sucking sound you hear is your jobs going South because of NAFTA. Dems and Repubs did that hand in hand. I guess theres nothing to worry about the Clinton's and Bush's paling around. Probably just trying to ease the tension between the parties is all. Sleep well all of you who support those who are doing this to your fellow citizens, as I'm sure you will.

[Morereason]

141. Your post is accurate

I did well in the 90s, but my eyes were open enough to see that many others did not. As you say it was an illusion. We excellerated the greed and sold a lot of our country's assets and had a short term bump.
One thing about Bill Clinton, I believe he really cared and meant well. But his policies placed us ultimately in worse shape for the longer run.

[dave29]

75. my wife lost her job in the dotcom bust, and I lost mine to a guy from India.

hooray!

[elixir]

77. Unbelievable. You must have been high for eight years...

:rofl: :popcorn:

[Leopolds Ghost]

81. You laugh. So... Clinton era prosperity left no one in the cold?

Or only... people who are too stupid or unlucky to make a killing like you
(or perhaps, ones parents) did.

[elixir]

86. Now, you got me. That's right I made a "killing" HAH! The clinton era brought economic

prosperity for my family so I could buy a crappy starter home in an overinflated Massachusetts housing market in 1987. And that same economy helped me pay daycare for two kids while I and my husband worked our asses off to stay in that house and save for college and retirement. My parents left me nothing and I've worked hard for every dollar I've earned. Clinton prosperity is something Obama can only aspire to.

You apparently don't have two pennies to rub together.

[HughBeaumont]

118. Someone apparently never saw "The Big One".

Documents a whole TON of people who got left out of "The Clinton Prosperity", most of them blue collar workers. That's when the whole "Free Trade" debacle got underway.

This past Christmas, my cousin, who isn't really political, said "is it just me or has the country just been going down the shitter for everyone these past 10-11 years?" I find it interesting that he didn't say "seven". This started before Bewsh took the White House hostage and continued 100 fold under him.

[DS1]

80. Most money I've earned in my entire life

[Morereason]

144. Temporary boost until we exported our lead in the computer industry

The last half of the 90s (the first half sucked by all economic measures) was driven by the computer industry. It would have fanned our economy for 10 more years, even with the .com "bubble", if our corporate heads had not moved so much capital and knowledge out of the country.

[no name no slogan]

83. It didn't do much for me

I saw a bunch of jobs in my community do the Guadalajara Shuffle. Strangely enough, ten years later those same jobs went to China.

We created 22 million new jobs in the 1990s. I worked three of them, just to earn as much as I would have at one job in the 1960s.

Compared to the 2000s, the 90s were a dream. But compared to the prosperity of the 1950s and 1960s, they weren't much.

[doyourealize1]

97. I suppose you want everyone to tell you that Obama will bring prosperity to everyone

Stop deluding yourself. No president will cure all of the country's ills.

[Jed Dilligan]

98. No, but Clinton specifically targeted the poor for punishment

and his wife is promising more of that. Obama at least acknowledges that we can't all be middle class and still need to make life better for the poor, not try to electro-shock them out of their poverty (or kill them trying).

[Manifestor_of_Light]

99. My job dried up in the 1990s.

I was formerly middle class. Job dried up, I was burned out and couldn't do it anymore due to the stress of being yelled at and dissed by nasty judges and lawyers. Some even tried to get my court reporting license yanked by filing grievances against me for "unprofessional" conduct (like wanting to get PAID for a transcript).

Had nothing but crappy temp jobs since then. Gave up looking several years ago, being overqualified (with a J.D. from an excellent private law school) and over 40. Worked in the legal field my whole working life. And they said that legal work couldn't be outsourced!! Yeah, riiiight.....more bullshit from the economists.

Now they want "recent legal experience" as their catch-22. Like I've forgotten everything I've learned about law since I was a little kid. I was reading advance sheets (Southwestern Reporters, West Publishing) when I was a kid. Mom was a legal secretary, daddy was a lawyer. I soaked it all up.

The law isn't supposed to change unless there's a good reason. So they don't want experience. Fuck the job market. The personnel agencies are a total farce. They want to look like they give a shit. But they don't. You're not supposed to get older.

[Lorien]

102. Nope. I was making $120,00 to $155,00 a year then

Why? Because I create things that people buy with their disposible income, which the middle class had A LOT of then.


Now I make about $35,000 a year doing the exact same job. Sales are way, way down because the middle class is struggling just to make ends meet.

[Morereason]

146. It was the computer industry, not "Clinton", that caused that bump

I will take Clinton over Bush any day. But he gets too much credit. He meant well, but his globalism policies were mistaken.

That cash flowing around was coming from the productivity gains the computer industry brought in the latter 90s. It created middle class opportunities in a way we had not seen since the 60s. Too bad they all shipped all that capital and knowledge out of the country.

[DiamondJay]

103. yea cuz Reagan and bushes probly did u so much better

honestly be grateful for something, u coulda had a 2nd bush I term followed by Dan Quayle for the 8 years, plus his handpicked succesor for the last 3

[Iktomiwicasa]

105. Prosperity???

WTF is THAT? It left my people about the time we were shoved onto this reservation in 1878.

[Political Heretic]

107. Right here.

How's it goin?

[Radical Activist]

108. I graduated college with a huge student loan debt.

Clinton promised to make college more affordable in '92. Another empty promise. I'm tired of lies and broken promises from the Clintons.

[VotesForWomen]

112. it was lot better than the bush years. why should we take a chance on O, when we have a pretty

good idea that hill already knows how to run an economy?

[Morereason]

147. We don't have another computer industry waiting in the wings... won't happen the same way

Now Gore would make the green industry grow as fast and big as the computer industry did, but I do not see Clinton being that inspired...

[New Dawn]

115. K&R - I'm not rich enough to vote for the Clintons

[TheDonkey]

116. DADT, DOMA, No Civil Unions. In the cold on the social rights front.

[Jed Dilligan]

119. Thanks--glad to see people are still kicking

I'm going away and not coming back for a while. Good luck to everyone.

[Iceburg]

154. Please educate yourself, your ignorance of these issues is astounding...

May I suggest a few books,videos/documentaries for you:

Title: Conduct Unbecoming: Gays & Lesbians in the U.S. Military

Review:

This monumental book is the single biggest and most important major work in print on the subject of gays in the military. (Okay, there is my own “Do Ask, Do Tell.” – in that book and on this website I have carried the story forward to present day.) It is organized in “books” covering historical periods, and these in turn comprise short anecdotes about various gay servicemembers who had to deal with the ban. Along the way, Shilts covers the gradual legal evolution of the policy up until the 1993 debate started by President Clinton (the revised paperback covers the debate rather briefly), particularly the evolution of the “Old Policy: or absolute ban (“homosexuality is incompatible with military service….”) at the beginning of the Reagan administration in 1981, where the services offered honorable discharges but maintained a supposedly uniform policy of asking and discharging anyone found to be “homosexual.” Shilts compares the ban to Nazi Germany’s prosecution of homosexual “thought crimes.”

Some of the best incidents are early ones, such as those during the Vietnam era, where Shilts discusses the issue of homosexuality and the draft and presents a story of a student expelled from college for homosexuality in 1965 (as I was expelled in 1961, as described in my own book). Shilts frames his story with that of gay Navy doctor Tom Dooley. He presents various other stories of gay “superstars” who served in the military, sometimes in clandestine services, only to be expelled later. I wonder if the current war on terrorism will write the final chapter of this problem. I think that somehow it will.

Servicemembers’ Legal Defense Network (SLDN) starts many of its own annual reports with the phrase “Conduct Unbecoming.”


-----------------
Title: Gays in the Military
Release Date: 2000 (September)
Review: This video has the format of an extended CBS “60 Minutes” report but has the effect of a short documentary feature film. It chronicles the history of the military policy towards gays from the mid 1970’s and the Matlovich case to 2000 with the horrible crime committed at Fort Campbell against Barry Winchell.

About half of the video covers the history prior to the 1993 debate and the implementation of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” Most of the material in this segment comes from Randy Shilts’s Conduct Unbecoming (St. Martins, 1993, updated in a paperback reprint by Fawcett Columbine in 1994). However, it provides instructive emphasis on certain details. For example, Judge Giselle, in the Matlovich case, cited the inconsistency of the military and the tendency for commanders to keep gay soldiers that they wanted and then use homosexuality to discharge those whom they didn’t want, as unconstitutional. The exceptions would lead to the “no exceptions” policy at the end of the Carter Administration, based on the notorious litany, “Homosexuality is incompatible with military service…” Witch-hunts would take off after 1981, and Lawrence Korb, in charge of implementing DOD personnel policy, never imagined that commanders would use the policy to hunt gays down. (Korb as always struck me as a true conservative in spirit, opposed to gratuitous governmental intrusions upon private lives.) Perry Watkins would be the first “big case” under the 1981 policy, but Watkins had openly announced his homosexuality when enlisting, out of honesty, and the military at the time had remained nonchalant. Navy cryptographer Mel Dahl would be denied a Top Secret clearance (in a manner similar to Greta Cammermeyer a few years later) and then be drummed out of the Navy (but Dahl would get some back pay in a settlement, much smaller than Matlovich’s). Female sailors Robin Bruce and Chris Russell would be publicly humiliated as they were taken off a ship as “lesbians.” A young Army JAG officer, Michelle Benecke, would survive a witch hunt but soon resign in order to be able to fight the ban, and eventually start the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. The Navy would try to cover up its own negligence in the U.S.S. Iowa explosion, blaming heterosexual sailor Clayton Hartwig with a false gay rumor, before the Navy would publicly admit its mistake in 1991 (the year of Tailhook, and of Desert Storm).

The video continues with a history of the 1993 debate, leading to the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” “compromise” (the phrase written by Northwestern University military sociology professor Charles Moskos on a memo to be delivered up to the administration). This section of the film played out for me as if I were reliving scattered moments in a few of the most creative years of my own life. Benecke describes military brass as “apoplectic” about Clinton’s campaign promise to lift the ban, once they suddenly realized he really wanted to fulfill it. Senator Sam Nunn would actually hide behind the idea of violence against gays, and Colin Powell would reportedly threaten to resign. Keith Meinhold, whose story straddles the two versions of the ban, is shown proudly striding out of his US-flag draped Palo Alto home, almost as if doing a screen test. Congress would codify DADT into law at the end of 1993; and the idea of “Don’t Ask” would mislead servicemembers into believing that the policy was somehow more lenient, while discharges would increase. Nicole Galvin would be drummed out of West Point, while Timothy McVeigh (#2) would be identified by AOL as the author of a profile that identified him as “gay.” (The video does not go into the fact that an Internet profile or web site is “published” or cover the privacy law controversies over ISP’s identifying anonymous posters as a result of subpoenas from either government or civil suits.)

The account of Barry Winchell is particularly chilling. Soldier Javier Torrez would report that after the murder, a drill sergeant would make the troops sing “Faggot, faggot down the street, shoot him, shoot him till he retreats!” And conservative military leaders shrug this off as inevitable. Robert Maginnis, supposedly another author of DADT, talks about the ban as an easy out for a class of recruits physically much softer, perhaps less inclined to lead the unifocal life required by the military.

The video at the very end makes the point that gays would have a legal draft-dodge if, in the case of national “emergency” Congress wanted to reinstitute the draft (it does not mention that the president cannot do this alone). Maybe tens of thousands of guys would get out this way! No kidding!! (But then that brings up the question of how seriously the rest of society will now take the military’s values, and the Boy Scouts seem to take these values seriously.) There is a misleading statement at the very beginning, however, that it was not illegal to “be gay” in the military until 1993. It was very much against military policy during the whole modern era, back to World War I, although often tolerated when the military needed men. In fact, as the video points out, Julius Ceasar and Alexander the Great had male lovers, and the military in ancient Sparta actually encouraged homosexual “couples” to fight together (although there was no sense of freedom in that society that we have today).

The video does not go much into detail about the legal details of DADT, such as rebuttable presumption and the status v. conduct issue, except that it (through an interview with Benecke) maintains that Navy Lt. Zoe Dunning was the only person ever allowed under the “new” policy to rebut the presumption that she might engage in actual homosexual acts. Other servicemembers would never come up to the plate in their own hearings.

The video also leaves the impression that the military views gays as an official nuisance, whose rights (however spelled out in the law or Constitution) can be violated at will “for the good of the country.” In the view of some military commanders who can “get away with it” (and these are commanders with hands on the button, gays are Atlantean-hybrid-slaves with no rights; that gays just disappear are part of the natural order of things. As I’ve argued in my own books and elsewhere on this site, this is most unacceptable in the example that the military sets for civilian society.

Near the end, Charles Moskos plays Candide, when he admits that DADT is the worst of all solutions, except for all others.

There is also an older view, To Support and Defend (1993), from Parade Pictures and the Campaign for Military Service, produced by Julia Siminski and Rob Wilson. The film consists largely of interviews with gay military members who have fought the ban, with commentary also by Reagan-era DOD administrator Lawrence Korb. The video starts with various members taking the oath to support and defned, an oath I took myself not only when enlisting in 1968, but also with my first civil service job in 1963. Korb notes that gays have fought “in the trenches,” and have actually tended to turn out to be more stable than average on psychological tests. Justin Elzie, Michael Gray, Jason Skerik, Dusty Pruitt, Thomas Panaccia, and Keith Meinhold all give testimonials. Meinhold joined the Navy in 1980 in personal response to the hostage crisis in Iran. Two of his straight unit mates attest to his ability to blend into his units. Another commentator tells the story of a gay Green Beret, no John Wayne stereotyoe by one who gave his life in a rice paddy in Vietnam. Michael Gray analyzes the comparison to the arguments used about racial integration of the military by President Truman in the late 1940s.

It seems to me that one could lawfully purchase the copyrights and exhibition rights to these two videos and come up with a very compelling feature film. In 1993 many saw this issue as a “small problem” of special interests. Now we have had September 11. We are no longer the same country. We can take this on again

--------------
Title: Serving in Silence
Review: Glenn Close plays Col. Margarethe Cammermeyer, the female Army nurse expelled from the Washington State National Guard after 28 years of service for "admitting" to a direct question during a security interview in 1989, that she is a lesbian. The interviewed had been prompted by plans for her to attend the Army War College.
The film goes out of its way to present the moral dilemmas of the ban in a fashion easily comprehended by the public. Even at her administrative discharge hearing, the inquisitor admits she is a "great American" but that the rules require her discharge. Earlier passages show her combat service treating horribly wounded soldiers in Vietnam.

The film also shows her family life with her children and lover (Judy Davis). The build up to the "kiss" at the end seems a bit silly. This subject matter deserves a theatrical, not just netork or even cableTV, presentation. Steffan's story Honor Bound would be a good place to look. Of course, Randy Shilts's Conduct Unbecoming (St. Martin's, 1993) would provide an enormous fount of material.

Release Date: 1995

[Zodiak]

120. *raises hand*

Practically everyone I knew (all in their 20's) were poor and had a hard time getting and keeping a decent job throughout the entire Clinton administration.

[Froward69]

121. as for me

when Clinton was elected I was living in my Jeep.

by the end I owned my own apartment building and house. I had done flips and had made myself a cool half million cash.

now by the end of bushy boy... I am struggling to hold on to the apartment building and house with 300,000 in debt...


you decide...

[aquarius dawning]

122. And people say the President doesn't really have an impact on the economy.

That story is fucked up :-(

[bvar22]

138. The Pyramid Scam you got caught in...

..started under Bill Clinton (deregulation of Banking and Lending).
The current Housing collapse was inevitable, and Bush43 had little to do with your current situation.
Everyone rolls in $MONEY$ as long as the Pyramid is growing.

[earth mom]

126. The Clinton era was miserable for dh and I.

I've said it many times here on DU.

The only thing that saved us from * & his trashing of the middle class, working class & poor is that a few years ago, dh got a good but rare union job.

With the rising prices of everything and the pay scale at his previous job, we'd have lost everything by now if dh still worked at that job, NO doubt about it. :grr:

[Mass]

127. Raise hand. For a little while, it was not too bad, but very quickly, it became clear that

the dotcom bubble was collapsing and that people were left without anything and often without transferable skills to find a new job.

[Dinger]

128. I Was Able To Afford A College Education, Buy A Home,

my husband had a good job(manufacturing), we (my family) all had access to excellent health care, etc.

[catagory5]

132. dlafaposdfij

I was a little young then, but my Dad and Mom say it was the best time for them and everyone they knew during the Clinton years. OP I dont think your gonna get anywhere with this kind of post. People may disagree with how Bill has acted over the last month or so, but his Presidency was great for alot of people.

[huskerlaw]

136. I was in high school and college during the Clinton administration

so my personal "prosperity" isn't really relevant. However, I will say that I was able to get multiple college degrees thanks to grants that are no longer available. And my student loan interest rates are pretty damn low because I was smart enough to consolidate before Bush fucked that up.

I don't know if I can go so far as to thank Bill Clinton for my college education, but I will say that I fared much better under him than I would have going to college during the Bush administration.

[Emillereid]

137. Because I am better off now I am supposed to heap praise on Bush? I neither

give credit to Bush for my prosperity nor do I blame Clinton for my lesser prosperity while he was in office. Personally I think both presidents had little to do with the overall economic booms (tech and housing) of their times - except that they did little to tame them, setting us up for a fall when they burst. The poor and middle class were marginally better off under Clinton but the widening divide between the rich and the rest of us that started under Reagan relentlessly grew wider under both him and Bush.

[Occam Bandage]

139. Things were great in the 90s for me.

[bvar22]

140. 3 Family Owned Independent Businesses

crushed by Big Boxes.
The Big Boxes (I'm including Halliburton here) did extremely well under Bill Clinton.


Small Independent locally owned businesses?....not so good.


However, job opportunities like WalMart "Greeters" DID open up (with some retraining).

[ErnestoG]

142. You are making the mistake of confusing Bill with Hillary

Bills years were just great to me. Hillary? You can forget that. She'll vote for another war.

[Kitty Herder]

143. I don't understand why liberals can't see the Clintons for what they are:

Reaganites.

Oh, and consider my hand up.

[Penndems]

151. Senator Obama has had nothing but praise for former President Reagan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGS7Ku0_JuI&feature=related

Would that make him a "Reaganite", too?

[AJH032]

145. where do you get your information?

The rate of increase of the gap between the rich and the poor decreased during Clinton's terms. Public and private debt decreased, not increased. Military spending declined.

And for the record, my family and I were much better off during that time.

[readmoreoften]

148. Making more money then than I've ever made in my life. Total boom.

I didn't like many of his policies, but that's just the truth. Everyone I knew was flush and it felt like it'd never end.

[Recursion]

150. 3 times in a row...

...I got a job which evaporated after being sent overseas within a year of being hired.

I finally decided to go into computer networking because that requires a physical presence at the work site and so is pretty hard to offshore. I was lucky in that I could do that.

I watched people older than me get giddy as the value of their house skyrocketed, which also meant my rent skyrocketed. At least I had the sense not to get an ARM or IOM like a lot of my (now forclosed) friends did. Went from paying $300 a month in rent in 1994 to $1500 in 1999 -- for a much smaller place in a much more dangerous neighborhood.

I kept wondering where is all that money going? The money being "saved" by companies who send jobs to Mexico or Indonesia or whatever, and the money being "earned" by people whose house now costs 3 times as much as it did when they bought it. It's in profits.

I got angry when I looked at how stocks work. Nobody pays dividends anymore. That's supposed to be what makes a stock important. They're held for resale value now; hell, you might as well just use poker chips.

My parents' generation (yes, here comes the "generation" rant) are worried about their retirement in the next decade or so. They don't want to do it on social security alone. They don't have pensions anymore. They had two choices: invest in people my age so that we'll be in a position to support them when they retire, or fuck us over and ship all our jobs to another country so that their stocks will be worth enough to retire on. Guess which one they chose?

But there was something more intangible, too, on the job site. Nobody seemed to care about quality anymore. I can't tell you how many times in the 90s I heard, "I want this solved, but don't spend much time on it at all". Nobody wanted to make a good product; they wanted to make the cheapest possible product that had a chance of selling. It felt like we were flying a plane but trying to dismantle as many parts from it as possible while in flight.

[adabfree]

153. Actually, I've done really, really well under the repubs...but

I'm still for getting them out of office...and that doesn't include letting the Clintons back in...either.