Article reveals Clinton campaign's plan to steal the democratic nomination even if they lose it

[Tropics_Dude83]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/02/clinton_counts.html

OUTRAGEOUS. Anything it takes for these slimeballs to win.

There will be a civil war. 1968 all over again

WASHINGTON -- Hillary Clinton will take the Democratic nomination even if she does not win the popular vote, but persuades enough superdelegates to vote for her at the convention, her campaign advisers say.

The New York senator, who lost three primaries Tuesday night, now lags slightly behind her rival, Illinois Senator Barack Obama, in the delegate count. She is even further behind in "pledged'' delegates, those assigned by virtue of primaries and caucuses.

But Clinton will not concede the race to Obama if he wins a greater number of pledged delegates by the end of the primary season, and will count on the 796 elected officials and party bigwigs to put her over the top, if necessary, said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson.

"I want to be clear about the fact that neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of the votes of the superdelegates,'' Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.

[williesgirl]

1. Fuck Hilliary. Hope this gets out and pisses off enough voters in upcoming states too go Obama in

droves. rec'd

[BringBigDogBack]

2. Seconded.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anamandujano]

40. As are most of their titles. They are not big thinkers.

[krkaufman]

66. Eh, it all depends on one's take on the superdelegates.

If you view the superdelegates as antithetical to a democratic nomination process, then "theft" would be one interpretation for one candidate overcoming a popular delegate deficit through a lead in superdelegates -- or by the inclusion of tainted delegates. Just as the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v Gore was technically legal, we all know it was a tainted decision that effectively stole the election from Al Gore.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

79. You Are Calling Out the OP Writer as Bushie Type?

I thought the rules on DU were that posters didn't call out other DUers.

[SoxFan]

85. No, no, no

You can't call out Hillary supporters. Obama supporters are fair game.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

80. BUSH'S MYSTERY MONEY MAN BECOMES HILLARY'S

Hillary's Bush Connection

Bush's mystery money man becomes Hillary's




by RUSS BAKER and ADAM FEDERMAN

Research support for this story was provided by the Investigative Fund of The Nation Institute. Published in conjunction with The Nation.

In the Clintons' pursuit of power, there is no such thing as a strange bedfellow. One recently exposed inamorata was Norman Hsu, the mysterious businessman from Hong Kong who brought in $850,000 to Hillary Clinton's campaign before being unmasked as a fugitive. Her campaign dismissed Hsu as someone who'd slipped through the cracks of an otherwise unimpeachable system for vetting donors, and perhaps he was. The same cannot be said for the notorious financier Alan Quasha, whose involvement with Clinton is at least as substantial--and still under wraps.

Political junkies will recall Quasha as the controversial figure who bailed out George W. Bush's failing oil company in 1986, folding Bush into his company, Harken Energy, thus setting him on the path to a lucrative and high-profile position as an owner of the Texas Rangers baseball team, and the presidency. The persistently unprofitable Harken--many of whose board members, connected to powerful foreign interests and the intelligence community, nevertheless profited enormously--faced intense scrutiny in the early 1990s and again during Bush's first term.

Now Quasha is back--on the other side of the aisle. Operating below the radar, he entered Hillary Clinton's circle even before she declared her candidacy by quietly arranging for the hire of Clinton confidant and longtime Democratic Party money man Terry McAuliffe at one of his companies. During the interregnum between McAuliffe's chairmanship of the Democratic Party and the time he officially joined Clinton's campaign, Quasha's firm set McAuliffe up with a salary and opened a Washington office for him.

"That Hillary Clinton's campaign is involved with this particular cast of characters should give people pause," says John Moscow, a former Manhattan prosecutor. In the late 1980s and early '90s he led the investigation of the corrupt Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) global financial empire--a bank whose prominent shareholders included members of the Harken board. "Too many of the same names from earlier troubling circumstances suggests a lack of control over who she is dealing with," says Moscow, "or a policy of dealing with anyone who can pay."

http://www.realnews.org/stories/2007-10-16_hillary.html

[Nederland]

88. Yes I have

And I say this as an Obama supporter.

[Windy]

3. We have Bush Redo here. She sure took notes in 2000 and 2004

this has to get some traction in the media as all were talking about the superdelegate issue of late.

Who in the HELL do the Clintons think they are that they can thwart the will of the people.

Let them do this and we'll see who comes out to vote for her in the fall. Many will sit home on election day!

[harun]

17. That is the way I have felt for a few weeks now, that she is going to B*sh us

like we got B*sh'd in 2000.

[liberalnurse]

4. You need to change the OP Statement since you are falsely stating the article.

Here is the real link Title:


" Clinton Counts on Super delegates"

Now stop the lies and misleading crap. At least I evoke thought and confront frauds like you are practicing.

[KAZ]

12. This is not the LBN forum. n/t

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KAZ]

31. I'm simply stating that the OP heading requirement..

..only exists in LBN.

[NoPasaran]

42. So any slander or falsehood is okay?

As long as it serves the mighty O-Cult!

[KAZ]

44. I made no comment either way.

[krkaufman]

67. 'tis neither slander nor falsehood, but one person's opinion on the matter

as for my opinion... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4589287&mesg_id=4600357

Either remaining candidate overriding any significant popular delegate margin with the superdelegates and/or tainted MI & FL delegates WILL be viewed by many as a theft of the nomination, and I can promise you hundreds of thousands of unhappy campers.

[UALRBSofL]

14. Thank you liberalnurse

OP is trying to mislead DUers, why, I'm not sure. And, looking at the link, they have already endorsed Obama so they also mislead people.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Hepburn]

27. Yes, you do evoke thought....

...but it probably not the kind you wish to generate.

[Hart2008]

5. Hillary '08 is a Mondale '84 redux.

She wants to try and lose all 50 states in November.

[Moh96]

52. she will, if she tries this she will

[Hepburn]

6. Not sure if I was the 5th rec or not....there were four, I hit it and...

...when I came back to the page...there were 7 rec's! In any case, off to the Greatest Page with thee!

[Alhena]

7. Relax, most superdelegates are highly educated - Obama's base

Hillary's current lead among superdelegates is due largely to political bandwagoneers who thought her inevitable. Before long there will be a mass exodus to Obama.

Polls have consistently shown that highly educated people strongly prefer Obama- I can guarantee you that most superdelegates WANT Obama to win. The politics favor it as well- check out the national polls regarding Clinton v. McCain and Obama v. McCain.

I am extremely confident that the superdelegates will back Obama at the end of the day. Pelosi has leaked to a couple of newspapers that she is thinking of endorsing Obama.

[goodgd_yall]

36. Although I hope Clinton gets the nomination

I appreciate your reality-based opinion. I agree with your assessment---unless Clinton was to win Ohio and Texas, which I think could throw some complexity into the nomination. But, really, superdelegates want a Democrat in the White House, and if Obama looks like the one who can best beat McCain, they will vote for him.

[Moh96]

53. yes but a fight like this in the convention is never good for us in the GE

[stevenleser]

56. Yes, I agree. I think my fellow Obamites are worrying for nothing.

There is already movement in the Superdelegates in Obamas direction. My prediction is that by the time the convention gets here, of the 796 they are at least split down the middle if not favoring Obama. They are feeling the same thing the rest of the electorate is feeling.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

9. You have to live with yourself.

It's your candidate.

[BlackVelvet04]

Trying to get super delegates is certainly nothing

new or sinister. The OP lied.

[goldcanyonaz]

13. They don't need morals, because 'Jesus' is on their side.

[Marrah_G]

37. You can hardly tell this is a Democratic site anymore

The disgusting behavior seen lately, such as this, are driving the actual Dems away from this site.

[natrat]

10. hillary the victim and her sleazy campaign and advisors-gross

[Olney Blue]

11. Our system includes superdelegates who "vote their conscience."

If they vote for Clinton or Obama, how is that "stealing" a vote?

[Yossariant]

16. If they vote for barack, he deserves it. If they vote for Clinton, she stole it.

:rofl:

Barack done sucked their brains out.

[Olney Blue]

18. I would have NO problem with Kennedy or Kerry

casting votes for Obama as superdelegates- even though their state went for Hillary.

It's the superdelegate's perogative, and their right.

[karynnj]

57. Kerry actually said that it would be disasterous if the superdelegates

changed the winner of the pledged votes - either way. i take this to be that his vote will be with the winner of the National pledged votes. His endorsement and active support now is with Obama. (See the Blitzer interview linked to here: Kerryvison.net )

[electron_blue]

15. Look at the last statement - Wolfson says whoe ever wins will do so bcs of the SD's.

Let's not get outraged over something that may not happen. I don't think it's healthy for us to accuse Hillary of stealing, or planning to steal, if Obama wants, and needs, the SD's just as much. Not until we know for sure how the popular vote will turn out.

[libertee]

19. A new discussion group!!! Paranoia Posters

[electron_blue]

20. Huh? Can you explain that?

[karynnj]

58. That comment is disingenuous

W#hat he is saying is that the mathematics are such that no one gets the nomination just on pledged votes - the two candidates are splitting the vote too closely for that.

In reality this is a trial balloon - suggesting that the one who gets more pledged elected delegates may lose if the other gets a larger shear of party insiders and politicians. We need to write various places where this is discussed and say "no" - if that is what we believe.

[still_one]

76. You are correct, but if it happens as Wolfson says, he will have made the worst mistake

for his candidate, and the Democratic party

[Uben]

22. Looks like Obama should have planned for this

It's part of the process. If his campaign has not be courting the super delegates, they have made a grave error. He may win part 1 but not part 2. Why does everyone seem so shocked? Every presidential candidate knew this was part of it. Inexperience?

[Alhena]

25. Forget it- superdelegates will go to Obama, including many of Hillary's current ones

[Tropics_Dude83]

23. The article was not mis-stated

Direct quote:

But Clinton will not concede the race to Obama if he wins a greater number of pledged delegates by the end of the primary season, and will count on the 796 elected officials and party bigwigs to put her over the top, if necessary, said Clinton's communications director, Howard Wolfson.

And Boston.com is a Obama partisan website huh? ROFL.

Anyway, I will change nothing about my post Hillbots and stand 100% by what I said.

[liberalnurse]

28. You use inflammatory terms such as stealing the election, which is not in the article

but in your small mind...........Only dumb canadians think like that. Do you know any?

[karynnj]

60. I would characterize it the same way - and I think MANY people will

react in anger if the party insiders and politicians chose the candidate with fewer pledged delegates. My guess is that this is a trial balloon by the Clinton people who fear they will be a few short - and we need to indicate what we think of it.

It's not Canada that had it's last two elections quite possibly stolen.

[rodeodance]

64. Why do you believe such crap.? No mind to think for yourself?

[AlertLurker]

84. Boston.Com is the Boston Globe, who has endorsed Obama

More Flamebait Borg Obamoid Bullshit.

[Lerkfish]

29. FWIW, I think this year proves the undemocratic nature of the superdelegates in a close race

no matter who eventually wins, the idea of possibly making the people's votes completely null and void is reprehensible.

[elixir]

30. ...and another guy....

[AtomicKitten]

32. They are setting up the chess pieces as we speak.

[H2O Man]

33. These are not the tactics

that should define the democratic party, nor decide our candidate for us.

Nominated.

[goodgd_yall]

34. You're assuming Clinton will clinch the most superdelegates

if the nomination process was to go to that. If they see Obama is on a roll and he can get voters that Clinton can't (more independents) they may very well vote for Obama. This spiel about the Clinton "machine" having so much power is a bunch of baloney.

[RoadRage]

35. This is crap.. those delegates would have to SIDE with Clinton first..

and if Obama wins more delegates, states & the popular vote - the Super D's know they'd be shooting themselves & the party in the foot by staying on Clinton's side. That's why they can waffle back & forth 10 times between now & August.

[TeamJordan23]

38. One thing will be clear after March 4th: It won't be feasible to catch Barack in Pledged Delegates

When this happens, Hillary should do the classy thing and drop.

[nomorewhopper]

39. RIP Hillary Clinton and I Wave Goodbye" to the Clinton legacy

this type of info lights a fire on the internet and will become an issue

wait and see.

rip hillary clinton and "waves goodbye" to clinton legacy

[ChiciB1]

41. I Don't Usually Post At Obama Or Clinton Posts... But I Have One Question

IF it's the SUPER DELEGATES who will decide the election, then WHY is anyone else voting?? I DO realize that Primaries count to some extent in persuading WHO the Super Delegates will vote for, but WHAT IF a certain candidate can persuade certain Super Delegates to vote for THEM regardless of the total count... please explain to me why the Super Delegates get the final say??

I may be missing something here, but this doesn't sound quite right. Especially because of Florida & Michigan. Seems Hillary KEPT her name on in Michigan, and supposedly won Florida somehow. I'm getting more and more disgusted with this "game" than ever before. And I'm ALREADY disgusted!

From the article, even though is DOESN'T say she will win because of Super Delegates, it's apparent to me that she's relying on GETTING the Super Delegates from Florida AND Michigan! This is what I'm reading from the article. The article wouldn't have been written if that wasn't the intent! IMHO!

[PATRICK]

45. While of this is important

including outrage over possible undemocratic moves, in reality Hillary needs to show whatever strong points she has to imply hang on, even hang on to the superdelegates. In reality, despite pre-commitment and preference for her, the superdelegates, spotlight fully upon them and consequences horrible to contemplate will go for Obama if he is the rather clear winner- or even close since the fall campaign realities favor him- ok seem to.

While everyone should raise a ruckus about this so as not to concede this push by silence, it is unlikely, and more likely a display of strength to hold the line. If Texas and Ohio are decisive those same superdelegates may just send an equally undemocratic message back to her and ask her to concede.

If Hillary were to bow out gracefully she can only do so at this point(where she does has a huge number of delegates and neither can win clearly) by withdrawing all the strongarm stuff and hardnose tactics. It would be instantly clear though to one and all that this "going soft" means it is all over.

So, as distasteful as it is now, to continue she has to fight like a cornered candidate with every advantage she has. According to better and kinder wisdom she would realize she is already defeated by the catch of the prize not being worth the destructive effort. But then she would never have run in the first place.

And keep the pressure up on the superdelegates from all sides. That is what democracy and politics is all about in the raw.

[anamandujano]

47. Newsflash! Neither of them can WIN without supers. quote below from article

"I want to be clear about the fact that neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of the votes of the superdelegates,'' Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.

[Moh96]

54. What do you think will happen if she looses the PD and win by the SD have we not learned any thing

from Mondale '84

[elixir]

43. Good for her, taking all the delegates that are hers. Would Obama NOT take all his delegates? Hmmm?

[DefenseLawyer]

46. If no one wins on the first ballot

doesn't that free the pledged delegates to vote for anyone they want on the second and any subsequent ballots?

[AZBlue]

48. People will take to the streets.

I know I will. It was bad enough when the GOP stole our elections twice. But that was them. And I fought against them as did others. And they still won. But what they won was the battle, not the war. We knew our time would come to defeat them. And that time is now.

That means even more that we won't take it again and we definitely won't take it from one of us.

NO. WAY. The Clinton Machine should NOT underestimate this.

[karynnj]

62. I suspect this is a trial balloon

I am surprised that people in the HRC campaign are quoted on record. We need to respond with letters to editors on articles like this that it is not ok. Also, we can contact our politicians who are super delegates and say that we think it against basic Democratic principles if the National winner of the pledged delegates loses. The media and politicians need our feedback. (I actually don't think it will happen - listen to Kerry's resposnses to Blitzer - www.Kerryvision.net

[apocalypsehow]

49. I have long suspected this to be the case, though I hoped otherwise

Sad, what the craving for power will do to even people on the right side of the issues.

[rhett o rick]

50. This type of post is divisive and has no basis in fact. Please people. I am a strong Obama supporte

r but think that these posts, while maybe fun, are terribly decisive.

[Moh96]

51. if she does this, then its over McCain is our new president

I do not usually use bad words but Hillary if you are really thinking of doing this then a BIG FUCK YOU

[Moh96]

55. To all Clinton supports who agree with her on this YOU fucking sicken me

have you not learned anything from Mondale '84
I am shocked and out of words

[Maribelle]

61. Good.

Anyone that so rapidly swallows someones lies as you have done deserves to be sick.

I have some swamp land for sale that will make you feel better. I'll even give you a discount because you seem like such a nice man.

[Moh96]

63. I am not saying you or her make me sick, I am saying "IF" she said that

if she didn't then its all good
of course I will be very sad if Obama looses this nomination but I will be devastated if the Dem lost the GE
thats all that matters to me and if she plays that card then we can say goodbye to the white house for another 4 years

[Maribelle]

59. Perhaps you should learn the meaning of "count on" before you start spitting out false accusations

The article does not reveal any plan to steal anything. What you are doing is disgustingly egregious.

[rodeodance]

65. your subject line is flame-bait--but you knew that of course!

[NMMNG]

68. Dude, it's time for your meds.

[Usrename]

69. That would really pave the way for a new party!

It would be the end of this one.

[tandem5]

70. Goodness! These poor DNC rules - gospel one minute, the next they should be lining the floor

of a bird cage!

[Eurobabe]

71. There will be war.

Don't do it Hillary.

[Sapphocrat]

72. Misleading bullshit subject line. n/t

[Political Heretic]

73. This article makes me so sick I could just vomit. :(

It's stuff like this that makes it really hard to keep the "even tone" I have tried to maintain on these boards through this entire process. :mad: :mad:

The utter arrogance displayed in this comments just makes me sick. Reinforces the feeling I was TRYING to get over, that the only thing the Clintons care about is not the country, or the party or the American people - its the Clintons, and their assumption that the seat of power is their birthright.

I was getting over that feeling, and stuff like this just restirs all of my anger.

[still_one]

74. The truth is if someone wins the popular vote, and loses because of super delegates

they will lose in the general election

Wolfsen says in the article there would be no damage to the party, HE IS WRONG

In a strange sort of way if that happened it actually might result in the rebirth of the Democratic party

Think about it. For the past 8 years most of Congress, including the Democrats rubber stamped everything that bush sent to them, INCLUDING THE IWR.

This would be the final straw that breaks the camels back.

Neither side can win without the other candidates supporters, and if their judgement is that shallow, that they resort to winning the nomination through unelected delegates, then it is just as well they lose the general election. It was that judgement that got us into the Iraq war, and that judgement that voted for the Patriot Act

[New Dawn]

75. Hillary Clinton will make John McCain president by stealing the Democratic nomination

That would have been an even more accurate title.

[NMMatt]

77. She will conceed

When a majority of super delegates line up against her LONG before Denver. If she doesn't conceed, she'll lose even more support and credibility as time passes and no one will take her seriously. NOBODY in the Democratic party wants this to go to the Convention, except, perhaps, Mrs. Clinton and a few of her most loyal supporters perhaps.

[hell-bent]

86. You bet I am one of those supporters

that say if neither has enough delegates for the nomination then they should pick another nominee other than Clinton and Obama. Perhaps Gore,eh. Oh, I can see the Obama people whining and going into the streets because their Messiah would not be the nominee. Perhaps next time.

[tbyg52]

78. She better *not*, if she knows what is good for her.

A lot of people are paying attention, and I for one will raise the roof if *any* Democratic candidate subverts the will of the voters.

[MethuenProgressive]

81. DU has 37 IDIOTS who recommended this sack of shit OP?

Ignorance abounds.

[AlertLurker]

82. Obama's not courting the superdelegates either, right?

What a pile of speculative horseshit.

YAWN

[Cameron27]

83. Obama will do the same damned thing,

if you don't like the concept of superdelegates, then petition the DNC to change the rules, but don't bash the candidates when they chose to abide by them.

[gristy]

87. These rules were set long ago

The party set up the rules for candidate selection some time ago, and those rules include superdelegates who can vote for whomever they like. Clinton will in no way be stealing the nomination if (and that's a big if) she is able to sway enough superdelegates. She will have won the nomination.

minor edit for clarity

[CoffeeCat]

89. The Super Delegates will tell Hillary to GO TO HELL!!!

Ok, Queen Hillary---put down your scepter and climb down off of your cardboard thrown.

Yeah, you might want to adjust your tiara. It must be cutting off the flow of oxygen.

The Super Delegates are not your minions. They're not lemmings who will follow you off
this political cliff.

Before this campaign began, you garnered the support of many Super Delegates--by calling
in favors, strong arming and repeated badgering.

Guess what? It's a different world now. It's a competitive race. You no longer have
your "inevitability" to fall back on. The Supers realize this.

Quit behaving like a power-drunk sorority girl--demanding that everyone fall in line
behind you.

The Super Delegates will not usurp "We The People!". The Super Delegates understand
that this is the United States, and this land is governed by "We The People" not a
handful of party insiders. It's too bad that YOU don't realize this, and that you
will gladly--and without a second thought--tear your own party apart and scoff at
"We the People".

You disgust me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. This is awesome. When we turn this new-found capacity to distort news on McCain, he's history. n/t