Interesting! Since Edwards Suspended His Campaign, Attacks on Both Obama & Clinton HAVE INTENSIFIED

[Blackhatjack]

I have supported Edwards since Day 1 of this election cycle. While Edwards was still actively seeking the nomination there was a certain level of civility among the candidates, and Edwards helped keep the focus on issues important to the poor, working poor, and middle class.

Now that Edwards has suspended his campaign it seems to me that the attacks on and by each of the two remaining Democratic Campaigns have been intensified to levels which are unhealthy for unifying Democratic Party members around the eventual nominee, let alone win over the independents, undecided and unaffiliated voters.

If we want to win the General Election we had best be closing the gaps, promoting the positive aspects of each candidate, and stay on course to win back the White House.

Edit to add comma.

[MADem]

1. Well, sure. There were fewer attacks when there were more people in the race.

The invective gets spread around more.

Good luck with that Kumbaya stuff. There are some folks here who view this contest as a frigging cage match.

[Blackhatjack]

6. Please don't take this personally, but my suggestion is pragmatic in nature not 'Kumbaya stuff'

There IS going to be a General Election.

There IS going to be a Democratic Nominee.

THere IS going to be a Republican Nominee using every piece of negative information they can find to smear the Democratic Nominee.

One of the remaining Democratic Nominees(either Obama or Clinton) WILL NOT WIN the Dem Nomination.

IT IS going to take ALL DEMOCRATS to elect the Democratic NOMINEE as the Next President.

We should not resort to 'slash and burn' tactics to win the DEmocratic Nomination, only to lose the General Election.

Therefore, my suggestion is 'pragmatic' and not 'Kumbaya stuff.'

Part of winning back the White House is acting in a manner that will promote the winning of the General Election.

[MADem]

8. You're misapprehending me--I actually agree with you.

I think, however, that any hope of seeing civility here is a faint one. People aren't inclined towards civil discourse. The joy for many is in the combat.

The bright spot is that this is only a small corner of the Democratic Party universe. A lot of people here get the idea that they're more important than they actually are, and that's why they try to throw their weight around.

Post-convention, we (and that is the larger, Democratic Party We, not necessarily the DU We) will either rally around our candidate, or suffer a repeat of 04.

[Blackhatjack]

10. I believe you are right... but I will continue to try to change ways of thinking here.

I think people here at DU sometimes forget that we are indeed a small sliver of all Democrats which you accurately characterized.

[saracat]

2. I really respect you Blackhackhat but I am not that interested anymore.

I will support Hillary as she is the only one with a health care plan. If she is not the nominee,I will have to write in John's name. I am very sorry but I am not sure at this point that it would make that much of a differencce. I refuse to support someone just because they have a D after their name and no other reasons for me to vote for them. I will work on local races but I am pretty much done with the party. It is no longer my party right or wrong.I refuse to drink the cool aid.

[griffi94]

3. me too

i'll vote for all the democrats that are on the ticket with the exception of obama

[Blackhatjack]

5. I understand exactly what you are saying, but consider this...

Most people here do not fully appreciate how important it is to have policy positions included in the Democratic Party Platform.

Sure there will be a Democratic Nominee who does not embody all the characteristics that are important to us(and the country), but it is the Party Platform that details the positions the Party members and candidates are bound to promote in the General Election Campaign and in the execution of their duties after they are elected.

Edwards understands how important it is to have 'planks' in the DEMocratic Platform which focus on the politically powerless, the poor, the working poor, the middle class, those without health insurance, those in need of educational opportunities, etc.

IF the Party Platform changes, and we elect Democrats, the next 'crop of candidates' will be influenced to carry on the work started with this Party Platform we helped to amend.

Just remember that as participants in our democracy sometimes we are required to choose between two choices that we do not like. Abdication is not really an option. If our country is deprived of your insight, knowledge, and vote, the concept of democratic government will lost.

You have already made the most important choice --working on local races plays a vital role in making our democratic government work, and will have an effect on state and national elections.

[saracat]

7. Thank you for your courteous response. I understand what you are saying I just do not agree.

If it is between Obama and MCcain, I just cannot vote, at least for President. There will be no one on the ballot to vote for. At least I will not be compromising my conscience.And I do feel badly about this as I have never ever not voted before. I was one of those that fiercely criticized those that voted for Nader. it may well be that there is no longer any place for me in this party.But I am still hopeful that this may not be the case!

[Blackhatjack]

9. I believe you should always vote your conscience...

But keep in mind that a Democratic Party in power can change things for the better easier than a Democratic Party out of power(which has to convince not only its own members but those of the opposing party who have the real power).

My first choice of political advisors would be someone like you who is not a 'yes person' to whatever the candidate or party wants to hear. We have to get people like you in a position to be heard and influence those who will make the decisions.

We may not have won the battle of getting Edwards elected President this time, but the war is far from lost --and look at what we have driven the other campaigns to adopt because of our efforts. Don't sell your efforts short, and don't give up. If we are right, then we must continue to fight --and we will be more successful in our efforts if we get a Democratic President than a Republican President.

In any event, whether you vote or not we need you to keep speaking out. And I would support you in either case.

[saracat]

11. Thank you. I agree with most of what you said with the exception that we will be more successful in

our efforts if we get a Democratic president rather than a Republican president. Ordinarily, that would be the case. In a possible scenario that is presently looming, that may not be the case. It may not make any difference at all.Or it could be even worse, depending on circumstances.I would guess all I can say is it depends on who the Democratic Candidate is.

[hfojvt]

12. I cannot believe Obama's health care plan is that bad

It may not be exactly what you want. I think many here want single payer, in which case, Edwards plan was not exactly what they wanted.

Still, with a Democratic President, you probably get many other things that you want almost as much as universal coverage health care

1. pro-choice, pro civil rights, anti-corporate judges
2. likely to end the war in Iraq
3. less likely to start a war with Iran (or Venezuela or Uzbekistan or Bomevia or wherever)
4. increase in the minimum wage
5. rollback of the bush taxcuts, and more progressive taxes
6. increased funding for things like Headstart, LIHEAP, SCHIP, etc.
7. increased environmental, workplace, and financial regulation of corporations
8. less lobbying influence
9. election trustability (maybe or maybe not, but definitely not with a Republican)

and so on. Probably out of 100 things you want from a Clinton Presidency, you will get 95 of them with Obama and 12 of them with McCain.

That being said, at this point I cannot support Hillary even if she wins the nomination, because

A. When Bill was President he pushed things we did not expect a Democrat to push and did not oppose vigorously things we expect a Democrat to oppose.
B. He constantly used rightwing ideology - "The Era of Big Government is Over" "Fiscal Responsibility". Always seeming to want to "Out-Republican" the Republicans.
C. His blurring of the differences between Democrats and Republicans. Making the Democratic party into more of a "socially liberal corporate party" instead of a "working class party" lead to huge losses in Congress, in Governorships and probably in state legislatures too. He undercut the entire progressive message.
D. Granted, Hillary is not Bill and is perhaps more liberal than Bill, but she is running on his record, not repudiating it.
E. She pretends to be for working people, but her proposals are aimed at helping those above the median income, people in the 50-80% range, with no attention except lip service to those below the median income. She also adopts Republican rhetoric - "tax credits", "fiscal responsibility", "trillion dollar tax increase on the middle class" (to describe a tax increase on workers making over $110,000 a year).
F. She has a history of caving to corporations and war mongers. IWR, bankruptcy bill are two prime examples.

So I understand where you are coming from, but not why you are on the wrong side. The Clintons have and continue to pull the Democratic party to the right, and that is what I am determined to fight with every click of my keyboard!!!! and even a few exclamation points!!!

[saracat]

13. I respect your dedication but cannot share your opinion.

I have researched Obama and seen opposition research on Obama.He is not what many think.

[MethuenProgressive]

4. By ONE THIRD!!1!!1!!

:rofl:

[KoKo]

14. It's NOT about CIVILITY...it's about the ROOTS of our Dem Party..

and thank you John for bringing out the DIVIDE...but now it's up to us (with him gone) to keep the torch of TWO AMERICA'S GOING.