Florida Dems have been disenfranchised, through no fault of their own

[Little Star]

Submitted by lanesharon on Tue, 02/12/2008
~snip~
Please keep these facts in mind as you read the contents of this website:
* The Florida Democratic primary election ballot had all democratic candidates listed.
* Florida Dems have been disenfranchised, through no fault of their own
* HB537 was written by a Florida Republican to change Florida's primary date.
* A state legislature has interfered with it's constituents National voting rights.
* The Florida Democratic Party did NOT change this date, the legislature did.
* The Florida legislature has an overwhelming Republican majority.
* The House of Representatives in Florida have 41 Democrats; 71 Republicans.
* The Senate in Florida have 14 Democrats; 26 Republicans
* The state of Florida has a Republican Governor.
* The citizens of the state of Florida did NOT vote on this date change.
* HB537 was passed in May 2007 & legislatively changed the Florida primary date.
* This date was, and still is, unalterable by the Florida Democrats.~snip~

http://florida-delegates.com/

[madrchsod]

1. true and there should be a remedy

but the well has been poisoned and i think there`s nothing anyone can do now that would be fair to everyone. the democrats in florida and michigan should fire their leadership

[atreides1]

2. 1 Question

How many of the Florida Democrats voted against this bill?


On edit: When the final vote was taken for this bill, there were only 2 Nay votes in the Senate, and 1 Nay vote in the House.


That means that 40 Democrats in the House and 12 in the Senate voted in favor of this bill.

[Exultant Democracy]

5. Those mean Florida republicans must have tricked the dems like Bush tricked Clinton on the war.

:sarcasm:

edit: to add the sarcasm just so people know I don't think anyone was tricked into anything, in both cases it was playing politics.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

25. NORTH CAROLINA'S PRIMARY WONT COUNT AT ALL

and we follow the rules.

But watch the Hillary supporters insist on the Soviet Style Michigan "election" to count.

But will she argue for North Carolina's primary to count?

Oh, Obama is beating her in polling in NC, so probably no.

[ieoeja]

33. What's that about? I haven't heard anything. n/t

[Little Star]

39. Why won't it count?

[Exultant Democracy]

3. There were only 3 votes against the move, it was a bipartisan attempt at a powergrab for Florida

[jsamuel]

4. all of that is true, but the Florida Democratic legislature memebers voted for it.

So that is the problem. The voters didn't vote for it, but the legislature did. The legislature needs to stop acting all innocent. The voters are innocent.

[Independent-Voter]

6. Welcome to Representative Democracy - the rest of us have been here for 227 years

[jsamuel]

7. Um, yeah, what is your point.

[HeraldSquare212]

14. That they acted on behalf of the voters, and if the voters don't like what they did,

the voters have to vote them out in the next election. That's the only remedy here.

[jsamuel]

15. that does not resolve the issue for the voters and you know that

you can ignore the voters if you want, but then you are just doing what the legislature did in the first place

[HeraldSquare212]

17. Do you pay your taxes even if you consider them too high?

Do follow the laws they've passed, even if they don't like them? Of course you do - and you vote against them if you don't like them a lot.

Asking another entity - the Democratic Party, which includes me, here in NY - to also be compelled to do what the Florida legislature wants is unrepresentative and unfair. I can't vote against Florida legislators; you can.

[anamandujano]

19. THEY DON'T F'ING CARE, unless it interferes with the installment of Obama.

Unbelievable hypocrisy.

[HeraldSquare212]

24. Tell it to the DNC - this was decided long before it was an issue between HRC and Obama.

It's HRC who wants to change things now. The DNC is made up of representatives of the party from all states; they voted, and Florida and Michigan lost. They chose to ignore that vote. Now they want to complain about how their votes won't count? How about the votes of the other people on the DNC who decided this matter in the first place - should their votes not count? Is it OK when you lose a vote to just go out and do what you want anyway and expect other people to respect that?

[anamandujano]

28. Then stop complaining if the supers go against Obama.

Those rules have been in place also.

[anamandujano]

21. Why can't the super delegates act on behalf of the voters now?

If they have the voter's best interest in mind, why would you complain about it?

[HeraldSquare212]

26. They weren't elected to act on behalf of the voters - they're not representative,

they are appointed. The legislators were elected to act on behalf of their constituents.

[jsamuel]

29. superdelegates are elected officials

[anamandujano]

30. Hello, I believe ALL supers are elected reps of some sort, some

were even elected president.

[rodeodance]

8. Thank for the information--bookmarked. very informative thread.

[rodeodance]

9. REC

[TexasObserver]

10. Florida legislative Democrats supported it. That's the problem.

[anamandujano]

23. So, take THEM out to the woodshed, not the voters.

[blm]

11. Hey LS - why isn't McAuliffe leading this story since HE's the expert who put this rule in place

the first place when he was the Party Chair? The DNC and state parties just renewed the rule Terry McAuliffe put in place.

So, why isn't TeamClinton putting Terry out front there to explain it better for ALL of you and all Dems?

[Debi]

12. Please explain why only ONE person voted against the legislation

in the entire Florida Legislature? Democrats voted for the legislation knowing they were violating DNC rules.

[apnu]

16. The only answer I have is...

... because its Flori-DUH?

[Debi]

20. No, Florida voters are not stupid

In fact it is the Florida voter that is getting screwed because of the legislative and party leaders. I don't know what would have happened if all Florida voters were given this option (knowing the outcome). But I'm betting they wouldn't have thumbed their noses at the DNC and RNC the way their 'leaders' did.

[apnu]

37. I wasn't talking about the average FL voter, but their reps in the state (nt)

[suston96]

13. Democratic Party primary rules......

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=450&invol=107

"The National Convention shall be composed of delegates who are chosen through processes which (i) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include affirmative action programs toward that end, (ii) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the presidential nominating process, . . . (v) restrict participation to Democrats only . . . ." Democratic National Committee, Charter of the Democratic Party of the United States, Art. Two, 4 (emphasis added). <450 U.S. 107, 118>

[Windy]

18. FL and MICH residents were told that their votes wouldn't count. Many stayed away from the polls.

for that reason alone, the primaries in these states (I live in Michgan) should be held again with all votes counted, or the delegates from MI and FL can have no part in choosing a nominee. If you seat the delegates then all who didn't vote are also disenfranchised and given the population of each state and voter turnout nationwide, that could be an astronomical number.

This is the ONLY way to ensure that everyone has had the opportunity to participate in a free and fair election.

[anamandujano]

27. Agree wholeheartedly! It's too important not to hold new primaries

in these states, extra expense, extra time be damned.

Even if the voters go against Hillary, who I support, I submit there is no other fair way to solve this problem.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

36. I credit you greatly

Youre the first Hillary supporter I have seen that favors a revote in FLA!

[Little Star]

40. I can hop on that train! Just , NO CAUCUSES!!!!!

They are both primary states and should remain so.

[Not Me]

22. Okay, so the rules say we don't get our delegates seated.

The same rules also say, if neither candidate has enough delegates the superdelegates decide, using whatever decision process they care to use.

If we are going to follow the rules regarding the date issue, then we have to retain the same rules regarding the role of the superdelegates.

[anamandujano]

31. Thank you!

This argument won't work for the logic challenged though.

[crispini]

32. That's fine by me!

I have every confidence that the superdelegates will do the right thing for their party. :hi:

[pampango]

35. Agreed. At this point the powers of the superdelegates can't be changed. I'm sure they

are being lobbied and cajoled, but they will vote however they want. Both sides can present their arguments, but the SDs ultimately will decide for themselves.

The rules for this, just like for awarding delegates in Michigan and Florida, were established before the whole process began. The time for people to protest or to change the rules was back then, not now.

[johnnydrama]

38. nobody's saying don't count the superdelegates

Each candidate is asking them to vote a specific way.

Obama is saying vote the will of the people
Clinton is saying vote for her

Each has the right to ask them to do that.

[Little Star]

41. Very Good Point!!!!!

[stahbrett]

34. Wasn't the vote something like 115-1 to change the primary date?

The Democrats voted for the change. The people lost their chance to affect the election based on their vote because of their legislature.

Here's an analogy... there's an exhibition game between two professional sports teams. The teams don't prepare for this exhibition game like they would for a game that actually counted towards their season's overall record. They don't play their best players for the game, they don't call the same plays they'd call, etc.

Then when the game is almost over, and one team is ahead, that team then starts clamoring for this exhibition game to be turned into a regular season game. How fair would that be?

[BzaDem]

42. The idea that the only remedy should be to elect a new state legislature

is wrong, in my opnion.

If a state legislature taxes you too high, you elect a new state legislature. If a state legislature creates a law you don't like, you elect a new state legislature. But if a state legislature infringes upon your right to vote, or have your vote counted, that is NOT the answer. Voting is an input to the political process, as opposed to these other laws. This is why courts time after time courts have struck down voting restrictions, since you can't trust the political process if voting is what they are restricting in the first place. (I'm not saying there is any way a court will help here -- I'm just pointing out that voting related decisions are different than other laws, and they should be held to a much higher standard.) Whatever the DNC/Florida ends up doing, it must allow some way for Florida voters' to have their say. The fact that none of the candidates could campaign there, or the fact that a revote would cost too much money is irrelevent when you compare it to not allowing voters to pick their leaders.