Hillary supports NCLB !!!

[mckeown1128]

That is why I supported the No Child Left Behind Act in 2001 and continue to believe in the principles behind the landmark law. When the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLBA) was enacted, I viewed it as a historic promise between the federal government and educators -- schools would be held to higher standards than ever before and the government would make a record investment in those schools to ensure that they would be able to meet the new expectations confronting them.

http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/education/index.cfm?topic=elementary


Hmm...sounds just like Obama's view of NCLB. They both think the idea is good but that "BUSH" screwed it up. I would love for all of the Clinton supporters who marched into the other thread to condemn Obama to now march in here and condemn Hillary.

OR do we just hit and run in GDP.

Can I get a few K & R's for a little while. We need to combat the dirty tactics here...with a little truth telling.

[no name no slogan]

1. AND SO DID DENNIS KUCINICH!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

WHAT'S YOUR POINT?!?!??????

The legislation itself had some good things. However, it was passed and not PROPERLY FUNDED, which is why it never worked (and will never work).

Legislation - funding == UNFUNDED MANDATE: two of the dirtiest words in public policy.

[mckeown1128]

3. This thread is in response to huge faux outrage about

Obama holding pretty much the same stance. I personally agree with Hillary on this. My faux outrage is meant to prove a point not to try to distort.

[Bright Eyes]

6. Why in God's name do you have Lieberman as your avatar?

[Moh96]

9. i was ganna say the same thing

[TexasObserver]

2. You're right.

[Jed Dilligan]

4. Both Democrats would work on the reauthorization of NCLB

under a different name, probably.

[Blue State Bandit]

5. Here, here. K-n-R

[Jed Dilligan]

7. It's a good thing, too. Minus the sleazebag elements

introduced by Bush, higher accountability for public education can only help the children. And mandatory disaggregated reporting of achievement scores was LONG overdue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Who said anything about disaggregating the data?

[Jed Dilligan]

15. Section 1111(h) of Public Law 107-110

colloquially known as the "No Child Left Behind Act."

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. It says we are supposed to disaggregate the data?

Huh?

How did I miss that?

[Jed Dilligan]

20. I don't know, but it's there

I could link the file for you if you like.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I have read the entire bill and don't remember anything along those lines

Test scores are reported by schools and by race, etc. Is that what you are thinking when you say they disaggregate?

[Jed Dilligan]

22. Yes, and that is actually the word used

In previous versions of the ESEA schools were allowed to aggregate all their subgroups, which hid the achievement gap while creating an illusion of progress for all students.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. There are several different ways to disaggregate scores

The most honest way is to disaggregate by cohort groups, and follow same age peers as a group from year to year, looking for improvement. But I don't believe NCLB allows for that.

The current method of requiring all scores to be no lower than a floor which rises from year to year is unreasonable and discriminates against the subgroups. It also establishes a system where the scores of kids who are not in a subgroup don't matter. Those kids are white, English speaking, non lower socio-economic and non disabled. And those groups have traditionally performed well on standardized tests.

So it would be more fair and more accurate to disaggregate by cohort groupings, regardless of race, family income, etc. But I don't know if Hillary or Obama has recommended that we do that. Personally, I favor throwing the law out entirely, providing schools with the resources necessary to improve achievement and then in about 5 years test the kids to see if they are making progress.

[Jed Dilligan]

26. How would that help close the achievement gap?

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Spending money on programs that teach kids to do do something other than take a test

would be a lot smarter than spending money on testing the kids.

But if we MUST test our kids, my point was that we are not collecting or examining the right data.

[Jed Dilligan]

29. You are probably right

Whatever has been done, pre- or post-NCLB, has not been working. I welcome the fact that the NCLB reporting requirements have shed some light on how severely the system is failing black, Latino, poor, and disabled students. But just gathering data doesn't make changes. We need to act on the data, and know how to act on the data.

I don't think teaching to the test has necessarily been more harmful than the default, not teaching at all, which has been the norm in most public schools since the 70s. I taught college in both the 90s and the 00s and I was appalled at the lack of basic knowledge I encountered.

[electropop]

19. I always thought it was "No Child Left Unharmed."

Its goal is to regiment and standardize education to eliminate any chance of fostering creativity or critical thinking.

[MadHound]

25. Which is just what we don't need

We need to do away with NCLB, period, in any shape or form. It is destroying our schools and destroying a generation of students.

[sandnsea]

8. Obama said new legislation is harder to pass

That's the reason he isn't calling for a complete scrap, that getting comprehensive legislation on any topic takes years and we don't have time for that. His education proposals though, would be significantly different than NCLB.

[Jed Dilligan]

16. NCLB was 99% recycled from earlier ESEA reauthorizations

I wouldn't want to see what an Education Act built "from scratch" in this insane day and age would look like.

[stillrockin]

10. What a surprise. They are both POLITICIANS.

Question is, which one is best for the country on DAY ONE? Obama, of course.

[grace0418]

11. Both candidates have their strengths and weaknesses.

Although I personally prefer Obama over Clinton, I wish the crap would stop from both sides. Thank you for providing facts without the dramatics. K&R.

[msongs]

12. FYI from HRC's campaign website: END NCLB ->

http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/education/

under k/12

"End the unfunded mandate known as No Child Left Behind."

The OP says:


"Can I get a few K & R's for a little while. We need to combat the dirty tactics here...with a little truth telling."

if truth telling is your goal, you should try telling some truth yourself perhaps instead of linking to out of date stances.\

Msongs

[anamandujano]

17. She said she wants "No child truly left behind." They should not

specialize in passing mandated exams which teachers have to waste time teaching. They should be truly learning and acquiring the smarts they'll need to serve them well in life.

I heard that in the town hall.

[Greyskye]

14. Both Hillary's and Obama's web sites show basically the same stand on NCLB

From Hillary's web site:

Reforming the No Child Left Behind Act. This law represented a promise -- more resources for schools in exchange for more accountability -- and that promise has not been kept. http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/family /

REFORMING NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND: Hillary has been an outspoken advocate for reforming No Child Left Behind. She supports the use of growth models to track student performance; believes we ought to reward schools that make progress and thinks educators should have more of a say in turning around struggling schools. Hillary opposes the one size fits all approach to addressing the challenges facing schools, and is pushing for more flexibility in the law.

From Obama's web site:

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education /

[TexasObserver]

23. k&r

[Capn Sunshine]

28. STATUS QUO , people

That's what we get with Hillary.

[goodgd_yall]

30. She's getting rid of it---the last I heard her say in El Paso

She didn't say she'd tweak it.