From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.

[madfloridian]

It most surely was a Democratic who started the ball rolling. He introduced the bill to move up the primary date. A bunch of Florida Democrats had been working with Jeb's buddy, House Speaker, Marco Rubio since March of 2006.

1Florida Democratic Legislators sponsored the bill to move the primary to January 29th;

Jeremy Ring, Democrat, introduces primary bill

2.Florida House Democratic Legislators voted in committee three times for the bill to move the primary to January 29;

3.All but one Florida House Democratic Legislator vote on the floor to move the primary to January 29; and,

The one conscientious NO vote

4.Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after receiving a call from DNC Chair asking for help in opposing setting the primary date before February 5, “I don’t represent Howard Dean.”

5.Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5th, that the only reason he offer it was “to show that there was an attempt to state within the Democratic Party rules.” The amendment failed on a voice vote with no debate being offered.

6.Florida Senate Democratic Legislators voted in committee to move the primary to January;

7.Florida Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller stated on the Senate floor that he was offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5 only because he was threatened by DNC Chair Howard Dean. Sen. Geller than mocked his own amendment which failed on a voice vote without any debate.

Jeremy Ring was one of the main Democrats who worked for the bill.



He was so angry when the candidates took a pledge not to campaign here that he "unendorsed" Barack Obama and made a huge deal of it.

Top Democrat's are not taking this lying down however. State Senator Jeremy Ring, a Broward County Democrat who joined Republicans in pushing for a January 29th primary date has withdrawn his endorsement of Senator Barack Obama. Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller says, "Any candidate that boycotts Florida and thinks that they will raise money here will be sadly disappointed" and top Democratic fund raiser prominent Jacksonville trial lawyer Wayne Hogan phoned Howard Dean last week to cancel a DNC fund raiser.

The argument that poor Florida Democrats have been disenfranchised, the argument some like Julian Bond are trying...that Dean played the race card...are simply pathetic and simply wrong. It is lying and it is misleading, and it is dangerous to our country.

It was a Democrat, not Republicans, Who Moved Florida’s Primary Date

When the hubbub over Florida’s new presidential primary date began, the Florida Democratic Party was quick to blame the Republican-led state legislature for a change that violated national Dem Party rules and introduced the state party to a world of hurt. It turns out, however, that it was actually a Democratic state senator who introduced the original legislation that moved the primary date to Jan. 29. Hmmm.

But when newly spineful state party chair Karen Thurman gathered the Democratic faithful around her last weekend to announce that the state party would defiantly promote the Jan. 29 vote as a “real” election that “counts,” the man responsible for the original legislation was conspicuously absent.

.."Now that the Florida Democratic Party is resigned to the fact that the state will be off-limits to the leading Democratic candidates (except for blue-plate fundraisers — so much for the Dems who can’t afford that) and the party’s convention next month will be just another diversion at Disney World and the state will be stripped of its convention delegates, Thurman et. al. seem bent on ignoring the fact that a fellow party member actually started the whole thing.

I see an influx here at DU many times a day now, whining and whimpering and playing the victim.

The only victims were the voters of Florida who were screwed by their state leaders and then lied to by them.

[Snotcicles]

1. I think the same kind of deal went down in Michigan. nt

[democrattotheend]

11. Granholm pushed the early primary to help Clinton

That's what one of my coworkers, who is from Michigan and worked on Granholm's reelection campaign, told me.

[Snotcicles]

25. You are probably right, she could be looking for a job, maybe AG. nt

[sandyj999]

57. Well she's done here in more ways than one. n/t

[blm]

2. Dog and pony show by TeamClinton to maneuver Dean out of the DNC. Just as we saw

throughout 2005 and 2006. They couldn't do it after Nov2006 so they needed to set up a procedural 'controversy' in hopes to make it appear Dean was the problem.

They didn't factor in that many of us KNEW this ruling was put in place by Terry McAuliffe when HE was the head of the DNC and it was revoted on by all the state parties.

[madfloridian]

4. There was a post somewhere yesterday how Clinton has stuck to just a few states.

And Obama has been using the strategy of campaigning everywhere. I will see if I can find it.

[ChiciB1]

5. I Agree With You On This! Plus I Would Also Like to Add That There

was a concerted effort by many D.C. Elites, Big Wigs and POWERFUL PEOPLE, to have Clinton & Obama as the only two candidates that would be viable.

Those higher ups wanted to "MAKE HISTORY" come hell or high water! Didn't matter who was the best candidate! This is just my opinion of course, but there are SO MANY OTHERS who feel the very SAME WAY!!

[ChiciB1]

3. Ho-Hum... As I Said At Another Post Earlier.... Just Another Screwed

up Floridian Election! Having another election would be absolutely UN-DEMOCRATIC!!

[madfloridian]

6. I am waiting for someone to come on the thread and whine a lot.

About the poor Florida leadership. I will put that crying baby again.

[tsuki]

12. Is it true that Bill Nelson backed the plan so that he could deliver

Florida to Clinton early and be considered for the VP spot?

I keep hearing that around here. I really don't know what to say.

[madfloridian]

14. I have no proof of anything like that. But he has pushed it from the start.

He has been the most vocal attacker of Howard Dean. Karen Thurman has in fact made attempts to work with the DNC, but then Bill Nelson grabs the reigns again.

He is one of the Hillary superdelegates, but I can not say that was his goal. I can say I think so...but it is opinion.

[tsuki]

16. So, I guess I just won't answer when it is brought up. But I do let

everyone know that the Democrats in Florida were at the head of disenfranching us, not the DNC.

[madfloridian]

17. Right.

All indications point one way, but the attacks if one says it are not worth it.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. Who cares anymore?

Seriously, what good does it do to point fingers and try to blame people for this clusterfuck?

The fact is, something needs to be resolved before the convention.

[crispini]

8. Madfloridian, you are a great DU'er

:patriot: Keep on keepin' on. :kick:

[madfloridian]

15. Just a very cross and angry one.

This stuff brings out the worse in me. }(

[tomreedtoon]

40. Your anger at injustice MAKES you great, madfloridian.

And it is especially important that you found the injustice within the supposed Democratic party of your state (and mine), where everyone normally assumes that everything is all right.

I've been saying for a long time that there IS no Democratic Party in Florida. It isn't all that much of a joke. Not when the most progressive attitudes have to hide in weekly papers supported by gay dating services and topless parlors. Not when there are no public officials willing to stand against the Republicans and the Christian Right.

But the fact that you exist, madfloridian, gives me some hope. Thanks.

[Zodiak]

9. I support your hypothesis.

Classic mole scenario.....remember Theresa LaPore? There are Democrats that deliberately scuttle Democratic efforts....Democratic chances. I bet if you followed this guy's money, it would lead to the pukes directly or some permutation of the "New Democrats", but that is supposition.

[AtomicKitten]

10. Oh what a tangled web they weave.

Blackmail, brow-beating, playing the victim card ... Some Dems are starting to sound as craven and bereft of integrity as the GOP. This is tough to digest coming from Florida, the epicenter of election clusterf*cks. I have every confidence Howard Dean will be the firewall against all that.

K&R

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Aha! I knew it. I'm not too cynical for Florida.

[madfloridian]

18. I have been surprised at how many radio hosts want FL delegages to count.

Do they realize it will only benefit Hillary after all? Or do they really not understand it all?

[MonkeyFunk]

20. It benefits Hillary because she WON there

Just as the delegates from Virginia benefit Obama.

[KamaAina]

22. In a race where no candidate actually campaigned

perhaps the ultimate "beauty contest". What was the turnout? Might the candidate named "Clinton" have won based largely on name recognition?

But at least in Florida, other candidates were actually on the ballot. In Michigan, it was Clinton, Kucinich, and Uncommitted. No Obama or Edwards -- in a state with the worst economy in the country, that just might have heard Edwards' populist message.

Uncommitted polled in the mid-30s. Yet Clinton wants the Michigan delegates based on that strong showing. :sarcasm:

[MonkeyFunk]

23. The turnout was more than double

the turnout in 2000 or 2004. Biggest Democratic primary ever in Florida.

In Michigan, the others CHOSE to take their names off the ballot - there was no requirement or agreement that they do so.

[stahbrett]

26. If a pre-season football game gets high ratings, then the NFL convert it into a regular season game

or not.

[MonkeyFunk]

29. 1.7 million democrats going out to vote

isn't equivalent to watching a football game.

The fact remains, it would be suicidally and monumentally stupid NOT to resolve this before the election - we need Florida and Michigan in the GE.

[stahbrett]

31. I'm not against resolving it, but I am against basing delegates on the votes cast in the primary

Either have a caucus (because my understanding is that state law prohibits another primary election), or split the delegates - maybe 50/50, but definitely not based on the election that everyone was told beforehand would not count.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Why a caucus?

33.8% of eligible voters in Florida voted in this primary. A caucus would likely get <6%.

Why is that a better indicator?

[stahbrett]

33. Did you miss "because my understanding is that state law prohibits another primary election"?

I put that right in my post after I mentioned caucus. I guess you stopped reading too soon. ;)

[MonkeyFunk]

35. But why revote?

why would a 6% turnout caucus be a better indicator of the voters' will than a 33.8% primary?

It was the fourth-highest turnout of ALL the contests so far this year.

[stahbrett]

36. Because going into that election, potential voters were told that it didn't count

And there was no campaigning.

Like I said in my football analogy, you can't have something start out as meaningless, and then partway during the event decide to make it count.

How about this analogy - you go to a friend's house to play some poker. Everyone puts up $20 for some chips, and your friend says that because there are a couple of new players, the first hand of poker is going to be a demonstration hand for their benefit (to learn how to bet, raise, etc.). So the hand is dealt, and people are betting, raising, etc., knowing it doesn't count. Then your friend wins the pot, and declares that he's keeping the chips - he had too good a hand, and wants it to count now.

Is that fair? (And yes, I fully realize that a lot of people voted and it's not a poker game - that's what an analogy is... it's not identical.)

[MonkeyFunk]

37. I don't see how a caucus

is MORE fair than what occurred.

The primary garnered record-breaking turnout. More than double 2004 and 2000. It's hard to argue that large numbers of voters didn't come out to vote.

And there's no evidence whatsoever that the results would've been different, percentagewise, had no sanctions been discussed.

People bitch here about polls that have 1000 person samples - this poll had a 1.7 million person sample.

I don't see how a caucus is MORE fair.

The fact is, there's no perfect solution at this point - but there has to be one. And a caucus would be decidedly LESS fair than the primary that already occurred.

[stahbrett]

38. 1.7 million who were told that the vote in the democratic primary was meaningless

and how many millions who didn't even vote because of that?

How many voters showed up to vote on the various other issues, and didn't have the primary election as something to bother really considering after being told over and over that their vote wouldn't count?

Let's go through what can and cannot be done:

1) No second primary (prohibited by state law)
2) First primary was held under the universal knowledge that it was a beauty contest only - no delegates would be awarded, thus making the entire election unworthy of being used for delegate apportionment.
3) A caucus would undoubtedly have fewer voters - but if both candidates have the same amount of time to actually campaign there, would it be more fair? I'm not sure, to be honest
4) Split delegates 50/50, which allows Florida to have representation at the convention, without rewarding the violation of the DNC rules.

I'm partial to #4.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. And I just disagree

splitting them 50/50 seems the least fair of all the options - it's as if they expressed NO preference.

Yes, many millions may not have voted. But 1.7 million did - well over TWICE as much as 2004. No primary in Florida history ever had that kind of turnout. And there's absolutely no reason to believe that the percentage difference among the candidates would've changed if a few more million more people had voted. None whatsoever.

edit: And it wouldn't have been a few million more - it was already record-breaking at 1.7 million democrats.

[Dr.Phool]

45. Your sample is contaminated.

There was also a highly controversial constitutional amendment on property taxes on the same ballot. And that's the ONLY reason I voted in that primary. And, I also voted for John Edwards that day, knowing it was meaningless.

[MonkeyFunk]

54. So you went and voted

along 1.7 million other people. Well over twice as many as in 2004.

So you think a caucus with probably 200,000 voters would be a better gauge?

[Dr.Phool]

44. The DNC has offered ways to resolve it.

And Bill Nelson has torpedoed the idea every time it's come up. Nelson and the FDP are sitting at a card table with a pair of deuces, and demanding the guy with the full house give them the pot.

They're not trying for a solution. They are demanding a settlement on their terms only.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. it only disenfranchised the candidates and voters who might have turned out

if they had followed the rules.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

27. uh, my state is going by the rules, but won't count for anything

NC's primary is in May, and I hear that the contest will be over by then.

DO you think Hillary will try to count the Soviet Style Michigan election and the Orwellian
style Florida election?

How many of the democrats pushing this legislation that violates party rules - are super delegates?

[beachmom]

19. Kick

[LiberalFighter]

21. Is he a real Democrat or just DINO?

[HooptieWagon]

24. definately worth a K&R

Keep reminding people the Fla Dem Party worked in cahoots with the Fla Reps to get us in the situation we're in, and Dean and the DNC made repeated efforts at a compromise that would satisfy the previously agreed upon rules, but were rebuffed. If anyone is responsible, it's Karen Thurman and Bill Nelson. Hillary and her bots have them to thank.

[IndianaGreen]

30. I owe you a public apology

It turns out that you were right in your observations about Florida Democrats and their shenanigans.

[ShortnFiery]

43. From an purely "observational standpoint" that's very thoughtful of you IG.

I know from your passionate and detailed arguments that it also must have hurt bad but you came through. :wow:

Count me in as viewing you to be "The Genuine Article." A person who truly takes responsibility when they are in error. Good for you! :yourock: :patriot: :hi:

[madfloridian]

49. Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Just saw this. I have only had a working modem for about 3 out of the last 24 hours...and they can't figure the problem. Very tiring. Thanks again.

[BringBigDogBack]

34. K&R'ed

[suston96]

41. You wanna piss on Florida Democrats? OK. Then I guess the Repubs get Florida again in November.

That will be at least 3 presidential elections in a row. Maybe more.

[ShortnFiery]

42. That's not the issue. Hillary herself released a statement after the DNC ruling in SUPPORT of these

two primaries NOT BEING TALLIED. Yes, that's Hillary herself acknowledging that THE RULES MATTER. As a consequence of that DNC ruling perhaps *thousands* of democratic voters opted to NOT VOTE in the MI and FL primaries because they realized that their state officials were being penalized. We'll never know HOW MANY people choose NOT TO VOTE because of the DNC ruling that these votes would NOT be part of the delegate tally for the Democratic nomination.

I'm disgusted that *some* people are IMO, so low, that they want the rules changed for THEIR BENEFIT, yet are presenting the flimsy rationale that it's truly "for the people." That's bullshit and the vast majority of objective Americans KNOW that to be true. :shrug:

[LWolf]

47. Er....

Madfloridian IS a Florida Democrat.

Hence the handle "mad floridian". :eyes:

She's not pissing on herself. She's pointing out the corrupt manipulation of the primary process, and the Democrats who participated in that corrupt process.

[suston96]

50. My post stands. Voters get pissed at a variety of different things that affect their votes....

One of them is their primary vote being trashed and not being counted.

The so called rules violate the Constitution and the charter of the Democratic party. All votes will be counted equally. All members of the Democratic party will and must participate equally in nominating their candidate for President and Vice-President.

"The National Convention shall be composed of delegates who are chosen through processes which (i) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include affirmative action programs toward that end, (ii) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the presidential nominating process, . . . (v) restrict participation to Democrats only . . . ." Democratic National Committee, Charter of the Democratic Party of the United States, Art. Two, 4 (emphasis added). <450 U.S. 107, 118>

Losing both Michigan and Florida in the general could prove worrisome for the Democrats. Not to mention a trickle down effect on congressional elections - you, know the elections nobody around here is talking about.

[madfloridian]

56. They should have thought of that before they blatantly broke the rules.

.

[Dr.Phool]

46. Why don't we award all of Florida's delegates to

Joe Biden, Dennis Kucinich, Chris Dodd, and Mike Gravel?

The delegates get seated at the party, and almost everyone is happy.

[Independent-Voter]

48. Exactly. All this whining about victimhood is bullshit.

[madfloridian]

58. The victimhood thing has been overplayed.

You are right.

[RunningFromCongress]

51. We don't need another 4 years of "The rules don't apply if it benefits me" politics...

They broke the rules, end of story. Change the rules for the NEXT time around if you don't like them. But this shit is something Bush would do.

[madfloridian]

64. Right, change the rules for next time...don't break them

:hi:

[riskpeace]

52. Two facts remain

1. 1,684,390 people voted in the closed Democratic primary.
2. 857,208 Democractic voters chose Senator Clinton.

I think they're going to have to work something out before the convention. We'll see how that goes.

[madfloridian]

53. If they split them 50/ 50, which I have heard might be done by the committee..

though it is only speculation right now....that would be fair.

[riskpeace]

55. I see how that is one option

I'm not sure I agree that's the most fair option.

[HooptieWagon]

62. a 50/50 split might be fair

but the Fla SDs should be disqualified, since they are the FDP leadrs that deliberately created the mess.

[Emit]

59. Ring: "I have absolutely no regrets."

The Florida effort to move the date was sponsored by a Democrat, state Sen. Jeremy Ring, also of Broward, who remains unapologetic about his role. "I think we have successfully blown up this antiquated primary process," he said in a phone interview last week. "I have absolutely no regrets."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/30/florida/


Ring was celebrating with Crist when Crist signed the bill:

Here's the press release from Governor Crist's signing ceremony in West Palm Beach May 21.

....He was joined at the bill signing ceremony by Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Arthur Anderson, Congressman Robert Wexler, bill sponsors Representatives David Rivera (R-Miami) and Dorothy Hukill (R-Port Orange) and Senators Lee Constantine (R-Altamonte Springs) and Jeremy Ring (D-Margate) and other legislators...

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/238312.php

Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Margate, said that even without Democratic delegates — and only half the GOP delegates — at stake, "it's going to mean everything" for a frontrunner going into the coast-to-coast primaries and caucuses a week after Florida.

"I'm confident we're going to know the nominees after Feb. 5, and a lot of that will have to do with what happens in Florida," said Ring. "The reason I pushed the bill as hard as I did is, it's imperative that candidates start talking about issues important to Florida, which has happened. Getting a national 'cat fund' will be stronger than getting 210 convention delegates."

Creation of a national catastrophe fund to help states with massive hurricanes or killer earthquakes was not mentioned much in the first four states with primaries and caucuses. But Crist asked all visiting Republicans about it.

http://www.rpof.org/article.php?id=236

[madfloridian]

60. Yes!...thank you...You got some Jeremy stuff I missed.

The more he talks the more he damns himself and his state. Jeremy, Jeremy

I am saving your posts for later reference. Love it.

[Major Hogwash]

61. Good analysis for that mess in the Sunshine state.

This is really important to remember when they come to play the victim card too.
We're all victims in this mess and we've seen it coming for months.
Great post straightening it out.

[madfloridian]

63. I was just reading some blogs on this....esp. Florida ones.

They still are putting the whole burden on Dean and the DNC. Refusing to accept responsibility for the state.

[madfloridian]

65. Now they are starting the meme that Dean will be unable to negotiate peace.

We are getting into some ugly stuff here. I think it is going to get very very ugly.

I have said this was to marginalize him....after reading this article, hearing what Hillary Rosen said, seeing other similar comments...it is a pattern.

They are trying to discredit him and get someone else to handle it.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_8280388?source=rss

I don't even want to post any of it. Some I recognize as supporters of Hillary, others I don't recognize.

Definite pattern developing.