How come people see Obama as the 'liberal' candidate?

[Stinky The Clown]

His record is arguably little different from Clinton's.

His stated positions are arguably little different from Clinton's.

The only substantive difference between them that I see is their early positions on the Iraq war.

I'm not trying to put Obama down, but I am trying to understand why he is perceived by so many as 'liberal'. Which is kinda funny, since his reputation in the Illinois Senate was one who was comfortable crossing the aisle to 'work together' with Republicans.

(For those of you who will knee-jerkedly call me a Clinton supporter, you would be dead wrong. Indeed, I **dare** you to cite but one post of mine where I show I am a Clinton supporter. I am an equal opportunity questioner.)

[Birthmark]

1. It's a good question

I await the answers.

[Clark2008]

2. I guess it's because of the war and only the war.

HRC voted for it, Obama, who wasn't in the Senate to vote either way, spoke out against it. That one little gem makes him slightly more liberal.


:shrug:

BTW, I really don't care at this point who gets the nomination.

[Skidmore]

3. I can only speak for myself.

I see Hillary as the candidate of the machine. And the machine is broken. Her candidacy is an extension of some really bad politicking and policy making of the past two decades and cannot be separated neatly from the * terms either. I believe that Obama is a chance for a break with the past and that his encouragement of citizen participation is a way by which we can actually work together to build anew. We don't need to follow the machine, we need to get the machine to follow us. It is a different mindset than the usual partisan politics. It is also a chance to capture a real working majority as opposed to insular and well entrenched camps which have fought us to a 51-49 gridlock for decades now. We need to move the nation forward and the political system we have now is not capable of doing so. I don't believe Hillary is capable of delivering this type of change to the nation.

Edited to add that Hillary's IWR vote and support of Kyl-Lieberman also are major sticking points for me.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Thank you thank you thank you for a rational and fresh perspective .....

If I had a heart left, I'd give it to you! :hi:

Your reply doesn't speak to liberal vs centrist vs someplace in between. Instead, it speaks to the system, which we all agree is broken. It speaks to a new kind of hope taken on faith.

I'd be very happy to not have an extension of the past, even though the Clinton years were very good ones for me and mine, personally. VERY good years. But they're over and it is time to move forward. The only looking back (if that's the right perspective) I'd care to do is for a Gore candidacy again.

While what you say about Obama is very clear to me and clicked something in my head that no else has ever clicked and actually given me reason to reconsider, I am still caused to have pause at his naiveté and inexperience.

[stellanoir]

14. Hey stinky

Consider checking out how succinctly Michelle addresses the whole "experience" issue in this video

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x93740

It's addressed really well in this article as well

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william/why-i-recorded-yes-w_b_84655.html

[Skidmore]

15. I guess I don't see him as naive or inexperienced.

It takes some real savvy to accomplish what he has in his life and this campaign. This guy is no slacker and is a hard worker. He has done a lot of good work in his career and in the Illinois legislature. FrenchieCat has put up a number of threads summarizing both state and federal legislation he has sponsored. He has of exceptional intellect and I believe has a good grasp of issues and the people skills it takes to get work done.


He also comes from a background that is much more common these days and one that I think many families with mixed heritages and blended families can relate to. As a mother who single parented for a period of time when my son was young, I understand how hard it its for a child of mixed heritage and with limited means to become successful. He takes that depth of understanding with him. I believe he is a decent man who sees individuals and not groups. When he was in Iowa, we saw that from him, and he was a tireless worker. His staff was on the ball and quite often would get you in touch with Obama directly.

[Coexist]

21. are you asking about the 'liberal rating'?

or why he is viewed on the left as more liberal?

For myself, I don't know that he is more liberal, in the political sense, but in the grassroots sense.

I love that for 3 years, instead of making tons of cash, he went door to door, trying to fix things from the bottom up. He could have chosen instead, to sit on a board, arranging charity benefits to raise money to throw at the problems so he didn't have to feel guilty.

I love that he went to the Illinois Senate, where Dems were in the minority, and worked and worked, and passed progressive legislation - lots of it - in that setting. He didn't move to the center there, he found a way to shift their thinking to the left by finding what tiny morsel they could agree on and build from there.

[griffi94]

6. right

and obama is the independent young turk........get real......obama is as much a creation of the "machine" as hillary....any candidate that makes it this far is.....in 2004 howard dean was truly the candidate that wasn't part of the machine.....he went down in flames after the first caucus......after obama wins and the new pres has a D by his name....we'll all congradulate our selves on sweeping in the agents of change....we'll witness obamas honeymoon phase with the american people....then we'll start noticing that the things we thought we were getting.....well we aren't.....no healthcare plan...because obama can't get the one he wants thru congress.......the war will roll on because regardless of what was promised we can't just pack up and leave............imo the reason that american elections have such low turnout....and americans are so uninformed about their government is because it's set up to never change very much and to never change very fast....the bush years have been been the most radical that i've ever seen....but i don't think we'll see that again at least for 50 or so years....the bushies made major changes by blatantly ignoring the law....figuring rightly that by the time enough people noticed and became concerned they'd be long gone.....don't expect obama to be any different than bill clinton was...he'll be as divisive as the clintons....with old guard democrats dragging him for jumping the line....conservative dems not supporting his agenda because their constituencies see him as too liberal....and finally real liberals becoming disenchanted because he'll govern as a moderate.

[UALRBSofL]

24. Skidmore, I enjoyed reading your post

And I'm glad you were fair about candidates instead of attacking like many on DU typically do. I understand what you are saying and I can agree with much of what you are saying. Thank you for using logic in your post and stating what many people feel. I can accept peoples opinions if they aren't attacking. :)

[WilliamPitt]

5. Because it makes you mad

:P

*ducking*

[madrchsod]

7. "Illinois Senate was one who was comfortable crossing the aisle

to 'work together' with Republicans." the republican that he worked with is the most liberal of all the republicans in the illinois senate. his name escapes me but the guy even has a decent rating with the democrats in his district. obama did a good job of knowing who he could work with in both parties and that is why he was a good state senator. it`s a political necessity to know who is your friend or enemy in both parties....

[apnu]

8. Obama is the 'liberal' candidate because...

... the noise machine says so. Because he is not a Clinton. And because of that, he has defaulted into the anti-politics as usual candidate. Because its is laughable to say that Hillary Clinton is progressive, or liberal for the sake of being liberal. And if that is so, then the only other alternative, by this logic, must be the 'liberal' one.

However, Obama is a part of the main stream party. The chances for the so-called "Democratic Wing of the Democratic party" died when Kooch and Edwards bowed out.

But, as I said, by default, Obama gets this mantle simply because he is not a Clinton.

Having said all that, should Hillary Clinton win this thing, then she will magically be the most 'liberal' senator in D.C. ... because the noise machine says so.

[griffi94]

12. yep

and while i supported edwards...imo he would have turned into a mainstream party machine president had he won.....that's just the way it works...if they want to get any of their agenda passed they make deals and compromise...i also agree with you that obama isn't really all that liberal...we're led to believe that every faction is represented....so if hillary is the moderate and mccain is the conservative...that leaves obama for the liberal label.... even tho i think he'll get elected... i think the well is already poisoned for him

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Because We Believe That Clinton Is Definitely Right Wing

She was part of the teams that began:
* The Iraq War
* NAFTA
* Permanent "almost-free" trade status for China

She voted for both "Patriot" acts, co-sponsored a law making flag burning illegal, voted for the first bankruptcy bill, etc.

Obama doesn't have enough of a track record to know if he's right or left - but it's pretty unlikely he'll be to the right of Clinton, particularly given his disapproval of our current war of naked aggression.

[jakem]

10. voted most liberal in Senate?

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was the most liberal senator in 2007, according to National Journal's 27th annual vote ratings. The insurgent presidential candidate shifted further to the left last year in the run-up to the primaries, after ranking as the 16th- and 10th-most-liberal during his first two years in the Senate.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Gee .... ya think there might have been some political calculus going on there?

:shrug:

I am always distrustful of recently repainted cares and cats with recently changed stripes.

[jakem]

17. 10th to 1st not that big a jump.

I think his record clearly shows he is not pulling a romney here-

[bigtree]

11. single issue voters (Iraq, LGBT, etc.)

attach these labels to mark their territory

[billbuckhead]

13. Because he's "black", Obama's given a pass

[bigtree]

18. I don't think that's correct

I have nothing but praise for those who've supported him without regard to his race, and empathy and support for those who are supporting him, primarily, because of his race.

But, I don't think it's at all credible that 'he's been given a pass' . . . because of his race, or, anything else. From my own perspective, I can't imagine that his race isn't both a challenge and an opportunity for Obama; as that one trait is for many looking on. My own race has been a challenge and an opportunity, for me and others, in my lifetime (b.1960).

All of that said, no one has had a 'free pass' in this election because of race, or any other trait they might possess. There's plenty of scrutiny. You have to want to look for it.

[zalinda]

27. No, he is thought of as more liberal

because he is black. I'd say about 75% of voters (and I'm being kind) have no idea what he has done in office. Go out on the street and ask about one of his achievements, and I doubt if you will be able to find any who will be able to name any. DU really seems to thing that all people are political nerds, and they ARE NOT. They vote with their gut, who their friends are voting for, who the press tell them to vote for, who is the cutest or all of the above. Very few people know anything about him and assume that because he is black he is liberal, and that's only because there are so few black conservatives. Hell, put Allen Keyes face out there and ask if he's liberal or conservative and 80% or more would probably guess that he is liberal.

People in the US are stupid. They hold athletes in higher regard than honor students, how stupid is that? Minor league athletes can get more money than college professors, how stupid is that? Adults going on a TV show to test their intelligences against a fifth grader, how stupid is that? Building stadiums for sports teams in their town when their schools are falling apart, how stupid is that? And, yes, I think professional sports teams are over paid, over rated and over praised in every part of this country. And to spend government money to investigate these fools over drugs is STUPID, when we have many, many other things that are more important to get done in this country.

Yes, people in this country, the United States of America, are stupid.

zalinda

[ProSense]

19. Because his record is more liberal and only Repubs attach that label to Hillary

Children's Defense Fund Scorecard: Obama 100%, Hillary 90%

[UALRBSofL]

20. Sparkly I see Hillary and Obama both a mix

of progressive and centrist. When people tell you Hillary isn't progressive because of free trade and NAFTA that isn't true. Liberals are really mixed on this issue and many accept it and many liberals do not. Now, the fact Hillary voted for the Iraq invasion would make her a centrist but after Obama came to congress he voted for funding of the war, and, he has gone on record as saying he would use force in Afghanistan and Northern Pakistan to fight terrorism and Osama Bin Laden,which makes me think he has centrists views. So to say Hillary isn't a liberal and that Obama is a liberal is really a misnomer. I think many people on DU that are Obama supporters are just ready for a fresh face because Bill has been in office and they want someone new in office and that would be Obama. When it comes to social issues I like some of Hillary's better. I like the fact she wants to scrap the NCLB and start over, I like her healthcare plan because it is about as close to Universal Healthcare as you can get. What I really want to know about the candidates is there real stance on social security. I'm not real clear on either candidate. What I want to see is social security and disability reworked and remove about half of the red tape. Anyway, this is how I see it.

[LWolf]

22. Because they aren't looking.

They are caught up in the emotional appeal, and allow passion to override reality.

In my opinion, of course.

[OzarkDem]

23. People don't know much about him

and he makes himself difficult to define. The public isn't as familiar with his background or position statements, which are pretty nebulous to say the least. They tend to project on him what traits they want in a candidate.

[workinclasszero]

25. Because Hillary is a DLC corporate shill

Who sold out the working class and is a warmonger to boot.

Barack Obama is none of those things.

[aquarius dawning]

26. Because of things like this:

"Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was the most liberal senator in 2007, according to National Journal's 27th annual vote ratings. The insurgent presidential candidate shifted further to the left last year in the run-up to the primaries, after ranking as the 16th- and 10th-most-liberal during his first two years in the Senate.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., the other front-runner in the Democratic presidential race, also shifted to the left last year. She ranked as the 16th-most-liberal senator in the 2007 ratings, a computer-assisted analysis that used 99 key Senate votes, selected by NJ reporters and editors, to place every senator on a liberal-to-conservative scale in each of three issue categories. In 2006, Clinton was the 32nd-most-liberal senator."

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

And this:
"Non-Partisan National Journal Ranks Barack Obama "The Most Liberal Senator" Of 2007; Indicating The Type Of Change He'd Bring To Washington

Today, The National Journal Rated Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) "The Most Liberal Senator In 2007":

"Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., Was The Most Liberal Senator In 2007, According To National Journal's 27th Annual Vote Ratings." (Brian Friel, Richard E. Cohen and Kirk Victor, "Obama: Most Liberal Senator In 2007," National Journal, 1/31/07)

"The Insurgent Presidential Candidate Shifted Further To The Left Last Year In The Run-Up To The Primaries, After Ranking As The 16th- And 10th-Most-Liberal During His First Two Years In The Senate." (Brian Friel, Richard E. Cohen and Kirk Victor, "Obama: Most Liberal Senator In 2007," National Journal, 1/31/07)"

http://www.gop.com/NEWS/NewsRead.aspx?GUID=ac0d51ff-b262-47ef-8561-da0c66992ecb