"I don't know why the McClurkin thing is so upsetting?". An explanation.

[Iceburg]

A poster recently stated "I still don't quite know why the McClurkin thing is so upsetting". I believe the poster is most sincere about his bewilderment.

Let me try to explain why the McClurkin affair is so disturbing to many of us...

Some background:Donnie McClurkin is the face of a very well known movement within the Christian Right community that claims and advertises that they can "cure" homosexuals or de-gay them if you will. McClurkin and his followers run cleansing camps all over the country. Children suspected of being gay are forcefully enrolled in the cure programs.

Now imagine, if you will its 1964 -- one of the presidential candidates running in the Dem primaries is campaigning with the leader of the KKK. Pause -- think about that. Now, imagine that the presidential candidate toured through the countryside with a well known character famous for his "ability" to de-colorize non-whites. Imagine a Dem candidate parading around the country with a post 1945.
Friends, McClurkin is David Duke and Goebbels rolled into one and he's front and centre of Obama's Gospel tour.

It pains me know that ALL of the Obama supporters have been blinded by the light of a shiny new object. A light so bright that they cannot see such vile bigotry and hate. There is a reason the Obama supporters are viewed as a cult -- they are willing to turn their backs on fundamental human rights, willing to over look huge character flaws, willing to overlook the many skeletons in his closet. Yes, Americans ARE desperate for change just as Germany was in 1939 -- but this direction is just plain wrong. Alas, Obama supporters are now viewed as "good German soldiers" faithfully following their charismatic leader into the night.
-------------
Post script
RIP young man ...
Thu Feb 14, 2008
Openly gay student declared brain dead after being shot by classmate
Lawrence King, a 15-year-old at E.O. Green Junior High School in Oxnard, California was shot in the head and back and lies in a hospital, declared brain-dead, with his body now kept alive by life support, so that his organs being preserved to donate to save another life. The tragedy is that King was targeted because of his gender non-conformity.

[LostinVA]

1. Great OP -- k&r

[vi5]

2. I support Obama but I understand....

I'm not gay but I can't even imagine how that action on the part of Obama must have made gay people feel. At the time I was undecided and that really soured me on Obama. I don't like that he did it and I don't make apologies for it, even now that I've voted for him.

Personally speaking I just felt the Clinton's triangulation and divisions that they attempted to sow were far more damaging. I'm sure we can and will disagree on that, and that's fine. But I fully and completely understand why what Obama did with McClurkin would really upset and offend gay people.

[maddiejoan]

3. How can you address Clinton's

triangulation and divisiveness as more damaging after reading the OP?

What about Obama's triangulation? What Obama's divisiveness?

[Kittycat]

5. Obama is better for the country as a whole.

Clinton brought you DOMA & DADT. Chew on that a while.

ETA: I was listening to Obama the other day, and ong of the very FIRST things he said he wanted to do was repeal DADT. As well as provide equal rights under the constitution. And one of his lead advisers is an attorney that is in the nation's top for LGBT Marriage & Civil rights. With people like that advising him - don't you think it's something that he's open to looking at and supporting?

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kittycat]

9. Another hitler reference? Your arguement just fell on deaf ears.

If that's how you want to present your argument, then you've already lost. I would stand up with you, march with you, support you. But it's clear you would never do the same for me. All you care about it your own selfishness. All you care about is YOU, not the millions of others standing around you.

[Iceburg]

15. Coretta King would disagree with you...

Coretta Scott King was one of the most influential women leaders in our world. Prepared by her family, education, and personality for a life committed to social justice and peace, she entered the world stage in 1955 as wife of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and as a leading participant in the American Civil Rights Movement. Her remarkable partnership with Dr. King resulted not only in four talented children, but in a life devoted to the highest values of human dignity in service to social change. Mrs. King traveled throughout the world speaking out on behalf of racial and economic justice, women's and children's rights, gay and lesbian dignity, religious freedom, the needs of the poor and homeless, full-employment, health care, educational opportunities, nuclear disarmament and ecological sanity.
http://www.thekingcenter.org/csk/bio.html

RIP Mrs. King

[Kittycat]

20. A comment & link before I put you on ignore

First, your hitler reference was despicable. That comment is no worse than if I were to make a slur against you for being LGBT - which I would NEVER do. And for your slurred reference, I alerted you. It doesn't matter what you say or post, because at this point - you lost the argument.

Do yourself some good by reading the link this poster provided.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4601392&mesg_id=4601452

[Marrah_G]

40. Essentially calling other posters "Nazis" is a nasty thing to do and against the rules.

[maddiejoan]

8. Uhm

I'm voting for HILLARY --not BILL.

chew on that.

I don't trust Obama on LGBT rights.

He blew it.

[theboss]

10. When have the Clintons ever failed to throw gays under the bus?

I just don't see how a history of courtship and then betrayal is someone better than what is essentially a misjudgment.

[maddiejoan]

12. again you fail to realize something

I'm voting for HILLARY Clinton.

But thank you for your 'concern'.

[theboss]

14. Is there a difference between them?

If anything, she is a more cynical politician.

[maddiejoan]

17. you have got to be kidding

[theboss]

26. She is probably slighty more conservative and more cynical

And has been silent on LGBT issues for years.

Why do you trust her on this all of a sudden?

[maddiejoan]

31. All of a sudden?

I've trusted her on LGBT issues for over a decade.

I've heard her speak out for LGBTs and in particular LGBT youth.

She is not more conservative than Bill, that's just ridiculous. She is to the left of Bill on most social issues, and she is far less cynical.

[theboss]

41. And Obama speaks out for LGBT youth...at times to hostile crowds

So...again...what's the issue?

[mondo joe]

42. And gives a platform to people who are harmful to GLBT youth.

That's a problem.

[maddiejoan]

44. I don't trust him

and he doesn't do any such thing.

When he does mention gays --it's a very soft "We should embrace and not scorn"

I can hear that crap from any "ex-gay" ministry to.

Love the sinner. Hate the sin.

[Iceburg]

22. The Clintons have fought tirelessly, as did Coretta King (RIP) /nt

[mondo joe]

24. Do you mean Coretta King? With a C?

[Iceburg]

32. Yes ...thank you /nt

[theboss]

27. Fought for what? DOMA? Don't Ask, Don't Tell?

When have they fought?

[Maribelle]

19. What on earth did Obama tell you he was replacing DADT with??? Absolute prohibition?

Simply yanking DADT is sheer lunacy to some, I would imagine.

[Creideiki]

25. Social conservatives brought us DADT and DOMA

Bill Clinton expended a lot of his political capital attempting to get rid of the ban on gay people serving in the military. There was a huge backlash by the social conservatives of both parties that claimed that the country wasn't ready for that. DADT is a stopgap that helped prevent harsher methods of enforcing the ban.

DOMA is better than an amendment to the federal constitution, so that the social conservatives can get used to the fact that other people's relationships are important, too.

There's a DOMA in Illinois. Did Obama lead the charge to repeal it? No? Oh...

[theboss]

29. He caved in a week on the issue

He made it a cornerpiece of his campaign, received unprecedented LGBT support because of it, and caved immediately on it.

[Creideiki]

43. I see

So you were in the military then and watched everything that was going on both from the media reports and within the military.

[vi5]

6. I said "personally speaking"...

I looked at the candidates and I came to the conclusion I felt that was best for me and best for my country and best for the people around me (including many gay and lesbian friends and relatives who came to the same conclusion).

I don't expect that you have to agree with me and I would imagine I could sit here and type all day about how I came to whatever conclusion I did and you'd still disagree with me.

Yes, both candidates triangulate and play demographics against each other and use them for their convenience. I never said Obama didn't do that. I just pointed out that weighing the 2 candidates against each other and their words and their actions and in what ways and to what degree they've each been throwing various groups and demographics under the bus once it suits their needs I came to the decision I did. I'm not here proselytizing about it and as I stated in my original response I can fully understand and sympathize why someone would feel that way so it's not like I'm getting angry or trying to change anyone's mind or dismiss anyone's feelings.

[LiberalFighter]

7. I'm straight but I can't support Obama

when he is willing to trample on the rights of a few for personal gain. What other groups will suffer before people stand up?

We jump on Republican candidates when they have staff working for them that belong to or support racist organizations such as the KKK. And those candidates fire the person.

[vi5]

13. What about religions?

By that same standard should candidates be forced to disavow their religions if that religion discriminates? Catholics? Baptists? People belong to these organizations which discriminate and actively campaign against gay rights and the rights of women. And members of those organizations (including presidential and political candidates) can and do disagree with them on those views and that's what a lot of this discussion comes down to.

[LiberalFighter]

18. Sure! If they belong to a Bob Jones, Branch Davidian type.

Or Robert Jones University.

[vi5]

49. Why differentiate?

The Catholic church discriminates against gays and women. And they actively involve themselves in the politics of those issues. So why do they get a pass? Same thing with many if not most Baptist divisions. Why do they get a pass? Make every candidate that belongs to one of these relgiions disavow the beliefs and policies of them. Make them demand the same of their staff and workers.

[calimary]

54. Me, too. I appreciate this explanation. I wasn't quite clear on it, either.

Perhaps what we all need to do (operating on the presumption that he's our nominee) is keep leaning on Obama and his campaign people to be a LOT more sensitive on this issue.

If we're talking civil rights - we MUST talk about it in terms of the gay community ALSO. Discrimination against one segment of the population means LIKELY discrimination against others. I would hope, and expect, that an African-American leader would have an intense and personal appreciation of this issue, since the African-American community has certainly taken it on the chin in that department.

[jakem]

4. political reality check?

I don't think you start a career of constitutional law / community building / civil protections without feeling that first, and political drive second.

McClurkin a good idea? No, but a very small facet of his campaign as a whole, and certainly not a part off a larger bigoted conspiracy.

I suspect that he is not being given benefit of the doubt that some of his opinions on gay rights may be (and this is my opinion only) more significant that what makes it to a stump speech. This would be a political move to not alienate more socially conservative voters that might lean toward Obama for other reasons.

I completely get (to the extent that I can as a generally straight guy) the frustration of the GLBT community for not hearing politicians come out and really put GLBT issues first, but i suspect that this is politically savvy is one wants to win the GE, and keep the republican base impotent for issues.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Sorry

You miss the point. This is not gay people 'frustrated for not hearing politicians really put GLBT issues first'...no one expects our issues to be put first. You may recall that John Kerry played some pandering with 'gay marriage' issues, and I voted for him. The history is long like that. To imply that gay people are demanding to be put first, or demanding the candidate vocally support marriage rights is false. Obama's campaign did not merely give us the cold shoulder. He allowed for actual speech against a minority by his chosed MC, at Obama's event, in Obama's name. This was a verbal gay bashing. He put us front and center and then held us up for ridicule. That is why he is not being givent the benefit of the doubt- he is the first Democractic candidate for anything that I have ever seen approve or and arrange for the open, overt, and by name slandering of any minority at his actual events.
And you say he did this to gain Republican votes? Let me tell you this. If Obama had not done this pandering and wedge driving, he would already be the nominee. He made the wrong trade. Here's hoping the new Demcoratic Religious Bigot Base supports the candidate fully all the way to Nov. Many dollars and hours will not be there that has always been there- including for Kerry who was what you claim Obama is, just an old style politician.
I will say this. John Kerry. I compromised to vote for him. He also voted for the IWR, and I bet many who will not vote for Clinton over that voted for Kerry. I'm just saying. Great talents are expected to bring more to the table than a mere politician. Obama and his backers are promoting him as something more, so those old 19th Centruy ploys and methods stand out as the truth hidden by his rhetoric.
If Clinton had done this, Obama backers would be flaying her alive. Hypocrites who bow to their leader like Bushies instead of standing like Democrats and saying 'Senator, I want to vote for you, but I don't like this ex-gay alliance'. No. And why not? Why not speak your mind to the campaign instead of trying to explain yourself here. Go tell Obama you'd like him even better if he did not play thes cards.
For months I've been awaiting your candidate's apology. Or some clear words even. Months. Silence says it all.

[xchrom]

11. recommend

[Prefer]

16. The X-Men didn't want to be "cured".

Genes should be yours to keep

[Sadie5]

21. The gay community

Should be jumping up and down about this. Obama sweeps this under the rug when asked about this and as always, we never get a straight answer. I have through the years worked with quite a few gay folks and they can't be cured by this hypocrite, most of them are just wanting to have a good life and enjoy the same things the rest of the taxpayers enjoy. Heaven forbid, but should BO get elected he will have corp backers that will make him toe the line where gay legislation is concerned. I personally think HRC would be more considerate of those who are gay than BO would. That's why I will vote for her.Gay, straight...we are all in this together.

[KittyWampus]

28. Your SELECTIVE Outrage shows you for what you are. Essentially a hypocrite. Stick your heads up your

asses and pretend Hillary doesn't pander to the same sort of homophobic bigots.

Pretend she didn't support the DOMA.

Tell you what, start calling Hillary out on her transgressions and you're attempts to manufacture outrage will have merit.

Otherwise, you're selectively calling one candidate out and that says volumes.

[MethuenProgressive]

30. Obama's embrace of the Hate Wing of his church was completely cold blooded.

The evangelical homophobes have move money than the gays. So Obama picked the homophobes.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Yes but only after

the checks had cleared from his early fundraisers in the gay community. Took the money and flipped us the bird.

[ClassWarrior]

33. So why all the hatred toward a closeted gay guy?

:shrug:

NGU.

[LostinVA]

47. Research the Ex-Gay Movement

How many lives it costs, then you will understand.

[Occam Bandage]

34. Obama = Hitler. And you wonder why Obama bashers are feeling increasingly marginalized.

[mondo joe]

36. That's like Christians complaining about being oppressed by Atheists.

You're the majority.

[Occam Bandage]

46. Indeed we are. And there's a reason for that. Stuff like "OMG OBAMA IS HITLER" only makes

you guys look like marginal nuts. There are actual problems with Obama, but you're not helping your case, just like you weren't with the "cult" smears. Like I said: Wondering why the Obama-bashers are feeling more and more marginal? When you're claiming your opponent is a Hitleresque cult leader, you just look unhinged, and people respond accordingly.

[mondo joe]

48. I wouldn't make a value judgment about being in the majority. But for whatever it

means, you are. So enjoy. I'm sure you can handle the discontent of a minority.

[Occam Bandage]

50. And I'm not making a value judgement. I'm only speaking tactically. If you're discontented,

you might want to examine why you're in the minority. And I'm telling you--and breaking character while I do so--that if you have any intention of bringing people to your camp, calling your opponent Hitler is counterproductive. If you don't like being marginal, don't actively marginalize yourself.

[mondo joe]

51. Ah, you may have misinterpreted my intent.

I don't expect to convert any Obama supporters. But neither have I called them "nazis".:hi

I am well accustomed to being a marginalized minority - both politically and personally. There isn't much I can do about it, other than to abandon principle or lie about myself - neither of which appeals.

:hi:

[Bonobo]

37. You convinced me, all right!

I now believe it is Obama's agenda to actually CAUSE HARM to gay people.

:sarcasm:

[MethuenProgressive]

38. Those pesky Jews (gays) should've stopped whining about Hitler (McClurkin) in 1933 (2007)...

At least Donnie is offering to cure the Jews. Er... Gays.

[Occam Bandage]

45. You might want to wipe some of the froth off your chin.

[golddigger]

39. This is why I will hold my nose and vote Obama if he becomes

the democratic nomine. And I will not campaign for him in anyway.

[writes3000]

52. I'm Gay and I Support Obama.

I cannot stand McClurkin. Agree with you there. But I don't agree that the event with McClurkin is a defining example of Obama's position regarding human rights for gays.

I've done the research. I believe Obama is on our side (even though he may not agree with every position I have.) And that belief is comfirmed every time I hear him INCLUDE us in his speeches around the country.

I'm gay. I support Obama. And I'm proud of both things.

[Iceburg]

53. Welcome to DU/nt