About labeling McClurkin an "ex-gay clown"

[hedgehog]

Stonewall only took place in 1969.Since then there has been an on-going sea change in the general public's understanding of and attitudes toward homosexuals and bi-sexuals. It has to be said that prior to this change, it was the commonly held belief that homosexual desires were either immoral and/or a sign of mental illness.

So, we are in the process of educating ourselves. In my case, I had only a vague notion that homosexuality existed until I was in college, maybe later. Some things just weren't discussed back then. Now I have a gay daughter, out and proud. That's a sea change.

Not everyone is as far along the path as we'd like them to be. In addition, I think a lot more people are actually bisexual than is commonly recognized. I can understand how a bi-sexual, faced with a disapproval of homosexual desires, convinces himself or herself to focus his or her desires on the opposite sex. I can understand how such a person can then proceed to convince themself that they are somehow "cured". (For comparison, look how many people with healthy sexual appetites manage to focus those appetites on one person in a monogamous relationship and suppress their desires for other people.)


So, let's posit the possibility that McClurkin is actually bi-sexual. He was raped as a child and as a result would have confused notions about sexuality. The people he lives with disapprove of homosexual desires. He manages to suppress his homosexual desires, focuses on his heterosexual desires and considers himself "cured".

What I am saying is that McClurkin is an outstanding example of the on-going confusion many homosexuals and bisexuals still encounter in our society. Until we have a generation that grows up with models of al forms of human sexuality, we are going to have confused and hurting people. I find the labeling of McClurkin as a "clown" as hateful as any homophobe's taunt. We can disagree with the man and say he is wrong without labeling him.

By the way; I make a clear distinction between someone like McClain who is striving to do the right thing the best he knows how and hypocritical types who condemn homosexual behavior while engaging in exactly what they condemn. I put them in the same category as the Republicans who condemned Clinton while engaging in their own extra-marital affairs.

[hulklogan]

1. He can be ex-gay if he wants, he can be proud to be ex-gay

but when he says GLBT Americans are killing children and suggests that Harvey Milk High School is a breeding ground for child molesters, that's when he becomes a clown in my eyes.

I support Donnie McClurkin's right to express his sexual orientation however he wants to. But I don't support the brainwashing torture camps of the ex-gay movement and the adults, like McClurkin, who encourage parents to send their kids there to cure them.

[terrya]

2. Completely agree with you.

I don't care if the Donnie McClurkins of the world want to become straight. The studies on the "ex-gay" movement and the total rate of failure would suggest that it isn't possible to do that, but whatever floats your boat...

But as you said, when it comes to the brainwashing torture camps that you mentioned, that's inexcusible and morally wrong under any circumstances.

[hedgehog]

4. Now that's a sentiment I can agree with. Criticize his actions,

expose where he is wrong. When you label him as "ex-gay clown" though, it sounds as if you are condemning him for being confused.

[hulklogan]

8. When people call him an ex-gay clown, I think they're referring to his

support of the ex-gay movement more than his self-identifying as straight.

I wouldn't call him a clown for his interpretation of his sexual orientation, but I will call him a clown for being an ex-gay.

[bullwinkle428]

3. I have no problem labeling any hateful bigot out there as a "clown" -

if I were to label Fred Phelps, Don "Stormfront" Black, David Duke, George Lincoln Rockwell, etc., as "clowns", would other DUers really have a problem with it?

[hedgehog]

6. The difference is that they would be labeled clearly as a basis of

their public statements and actions. When the label has been applied to McClurkin, it seems to be based on his ambivalent attitude toward his own sexuality.

Would a teenager, trying to accomadate himself to out-dated standards, tries to be straight, tries to express the standards of his local culture, would that make him a "pre-gay clown"?

[hulklogan]

10. Teenagers get a pass from labels, as far as I'm concerned

That's what the "Q" in GLBTQ is for - "Questioning." Adults who come out as gay then decide later to self-identify as straight also get the benefit of the doubt from me, unless they're going around the country trying to convince people that Jesus can make them straight if they'll only go to a torture camp and get some electroshock therapy. Then they deserve to be called ex-gay clowns.

[Sapphocrat]

19. But McClurkin *is*...

...being "labeled clearly as a basis of (his) public statements and actions."

He allows himself to be paraded around as a poster boy for the "ex-gay" movement. Literally. If my visceral disdain for him wasn't so great, I might feel embarrassed for him at the way he willingly makes himself into a laughingstock. A sad, sick, pathetic, dangerous laughingstock, but a laughingstock nonetheless.

Sorry, hedgehog, but he is indeed a "clown" in my eyes. He may as well wear big floppy shoes and ride a unicycle.

P.S. D'ya think you could ease up just a tad on the use of the word "homosexual" as a noun? It's really grating on those of us who see it used constantly by the Radical Right in a deliberate effort to reduce our humanity to the function of our genitalia.

In the same vein, "sexual appetite" has nothing to do with sexual orientation. I was gay before I ever had sex with anyone, just as I'm sure you were straight before you ever had sex with anyone.

Thanks.

[hedgehog]

23. Sorry about my vocabulary. I'm not up to date on what is acceptable and

what isn't. I only used that term because it is my impression that "gay" applies to males and "lesbian" applies to females and I was looking for a single noun.


You're right about sexual orientation. I'm not sure what I said to give the wrong impression.

[Sapphocrat]

28. Thanks. I appreciate it.

The only single, succinct word I know that encompasses lesbians, gay men, bisexual people, transgendered, etc., is "queer" -- but that's not acceptable to everyone, so I like to use the neutral but inclusive "LGBT"/"LGBTs".

To be really inclusive, there's always "LGBTQQIA" (Questioning, Queer, Intersexed, and Allies), but that's a mouthful (or handful, if one is typing it).

About sexual orientation, two things jumped out at me in your OP: 1) that McClurkin's claim of childhood sexual abuse explains his presumed bisexuality (it's often assumed by even the most well-meaning that something "bad" must have happened in our childhoods to "turn" us gay/bi), and 2) bringing up "sexual appetite" at all in a discussion of orientation -- neither has anything to do with the other; you can have no "sexual appetite" at all, and still be gay, or straight, or bi, or trans.

It's important to distinguish between sexual orientation (which, in practice, is primarily "affectational" orientation) and sexual activity.

[hedgehog]

77. I think McClurkin was born with whatever orientation he has. When

I referred to the abuse he received as a child, I wanted to suggest that that, combined with a culture that frowns on being GLBT, makes it very hard for him to understand and accept himself. When a little girl who is straight is raped by a man, I would expect that she would have some difficulties learning to enjoy her sexuality. If she is in an abusive situation, it becomes very difficult. Just as a straight person who is abused as a child might have difficulties with sexuality later on, so would a GLBT person.


On edit: thank you for the info on vocabulary. GLBT is a much better term!

[Jamastiene]

29. It's the fact that they really stretch the word out and pronounce it

HOMO-SECKS-U-ALLLL like they do. When we see it typed out in a post spelled the regular way, we hear that pronunciation in the backs of our minds. Gay is fine as well as GLBT, which is actually easier to type if you ask me, even with one more letter.

[cboy4]

5. Listen, if someone wants to think they're "cured," that's

their business.

They can live in their own little fantasy world if they want.

However to go on and on about how homosexuality is a curse, and can be cured, and how it's a threat to children is unspeakable and unacceptable.

I'm convinced he's responsible for the suicide deaths of numerous LGBT young adults (and even adults) who have listened to him demonize being gay.

He most certainly has proverbial blood on his hands.

And why you're seemingly more concerned about whether this idiot is called a "clown," as opposed to the life threatening filth he "preaches" to his cult is astounding.


on edit...typo

[hedgehog]

7. He and the people around him need to be confronted on this,

but starting out by calling names isn't the way to do it.

[cboy4]

9. You seem more upset about the name-calling than

the pain he's causing.

How sad.

[hedgehog]

11. No, I'mupset because I see the name calling as perpetuating the problem

rather than resolving it.

[cboy4]

13. Hedgehog, stop being an apologist for homophobes.

Are you telling me that if people stop calling McClurkin a "clown" (and frankly I've not read people call him anything other than a homophobe), he's going to change his views?

You mean the fundies are going to change their views?

You mean despondent gay kids thinking about killing themselves are going to say, "Gee, McClurkin still thinks I'm evil and going to hell, but hey, at least he's not being called names so I guess I won't kill myself after all)???

Come on now.

[hedgehog]

14. I think McClurkin will have to do some learning and very likely

change his mind. Why put obstacles in his way?

[cboy4]

16. You really have your priorities screwed up....The fact that

you're more upset at the people who allegedly call him a "clown," than what McClurkin preaches is outrageous.

It's an indication you don't view his propaganda as particularly bad.

[Sapphocrat]

24. Tell you what:

I'll stop calling him an "ex-gay clown" as soon as he and his ilk stop calling us predators, perverts, pedophiles, sodomites, pederasts, promiscuous sluts, destroyers of the "basic building blocks of society," disease carriers, demon-possessed, child-killers, a "death cult," and mentally ill -- for starters.

[Sapphocrat]

21. Now, there's a good point.

I'd stop calling him an "ex-gay clown" if everyone else would agree to call him what he really is: an unrepentent accomplice to murder.


On edit: typo

[AndyA]

12. McClurkin can be anything he wants to be; it matters not to me at all.

But when he indicates there's something wrong with being gay, that's where I draw the line. Being gay is normal, there is no "cure" for it. Prayer will not "cure you" of being gay.

It's just the way it is. Just like having black or white skin, red or blonde hair, blue or brown eyes. It just happens, it's the way we're created, and there is no "cure" necessary for any of those things. One is as normal as another. And when someone tries to convince others that there is a cure, and when someone gives those who preach this a platform to preach it on, that is no longer acceptable, and it is unforgivable.

[Beregond2]

15. McClain

I see what you are saying, but the fact remains that he is engaged in demonizing people for something they have no choice about. I am sure he is using far worse terms than "clown" himself. It would be nice if we could all be so noble as to never use pejorative language, but is it realistic to expect people who are having hate-filled words hurled at them to respond in a measured, reasonable way? We are only human.

It is also a big leap to assume that he is "striving to do the right thing the best he knows how." He's made a career out of spreading misinformation and hate. If that is the best he can do, maybe he should consider a different career.

[NMMNG]

17. How much do you know about the Ex-Gay movement?

How much do you know about Donnie McClurkin, particularly about what he says against LGBT people?

Do you know about the American Psychiatric Association's and American Psychological Association's policies on "changing" sexual orientation? (e.g., that it basically cannot be done and it's harmful to try)


I'm not attacking or trying to trap you. I'm just asking and attempting to discuss the matter.

[hedgehog]

18. I've seen so much change so fast that I don't see an future for the

"ex-gay" movement or the outfits trying to convert people. Very quickly they will have the same reputation as the quack who went around doing lobotomies.

In the mean time, I'd like to think we are better than they are.

[LostinVA]

20. We are better than they are

We are not responsible for the deaths and ruined lives of GLBT kids.

And McClurkin is an Ex-Gay Clown, a term coined by FredScuttle, btw. Personally, I'd love to call McClurkin more than just an Ex-Gay Clown.

You have a gay daughter. You should know better than to defend this man in any way.

[hedgehog]

25. I see him as one of theose GLBT kids whose life has been ruined.

Clearly, he is in major denial about his sexuality and is being used.

[mondo joe]

27. I agree. But that can't be used as an excuse for him hurting other GLBT kids.

This is some SERIOUS bad shit. That's one of the things his apologists don't see the real harm.

[LostinVA]

80. Research the ex-gay movement, then see if you still want to diminish his effect

[NMMNG]

22. The "Ex-Gay" movement is a politically powerful industry

that makes millions (if not billions) of dollars a year by scamming LGBT people and their parents. They also work to keep LGBT people second-class citizens by keeping LGBT-rights laws from getting passed and by pushing through legislation that inhibits the rights of LGBT citizens. In addition they foster the bigotry that leads to indirect and direct harm of LGBT citizens everywhere--verbal, psychological and physical harm, including murder and suicide. They are insidious and need to be stopped. They are not an innocent bunch of quacks that can be ignored until they die off on their own.

[mondo joe]

26. He's not a clown. He's a sick victim who is now victimizing others.

Like an abused kid who grows up to abuse other kids, he is a victim - but also a victimizer.

[MzShellG]

30. I don't understand all the hate toward McClurkin by some members of the LGBT community.

He doesn't seem hateful, just confused. The fact that he was abused, victimized, and violated as child makes him view homosexuality the way he does. This happens to MANY people. I'm sure he feels guilt for having homosexual feelings, resulting from his experience, but it's only because of the way society views it. McClurkin did not make the anti-gay laws. Why is he the enemy? I feel bad for him for probably feeling tormented inside about this. He dealt with it the best way he knew how. Have some compassion.

[mondo joe]

31. His actions contribute to an atmosphere that has a lethal effect on GLBT kids.

Do you know how many gay kids end up homeless?

How many attempt suicide?

These "ex-gay" fucks hurt others.

[MzShellG]

33. I think it's the atmosphere that contributed to his actions.....

The shame that he felt about his experence most likely compelled him to reject homosexuality. How do we know HE didn't attempt suicide or consider it? I know someone who hated themselves because he was ashamed of his own feelings. Yes he was suicidal as well. I don't think McClurkin is evil or hateful. Just under pressure to denounce his sexuality since he doesn't have the courage to address it, publically. Sure that way of thinking has a lethal affect on GLBT kids but he is also a victim of it as well.

[mondo joe]

35. A child molester who was himself molested is still a threat, and must not harm others.

Same here. Whatever happened TO McClurkin, he is now himself a threat to the health and safety of others.

[MzShellG]

36. Yet McClurkin did not committ a crime....

Who knows, he may think he is helping people, especially through his music. At the least, he is just trying to be accepted in a society that persecutes people like him. Also trying to reconcile what happened to him as a child, in is mind, to make sense of it. That's not a hate monger. All the hate against him is unnecessary. There are bigger fish to fry, like those who are against the rights of ALL human beings.

[mondo joe]

37. No, but he harms others, legal though it may be. He is hurting GLBT kids.

What do you not understand about that?

[Sapphocrat]

62. No, there really aren't "bigger fish to fry."

The greatest danger is a zealot with a public platform who uses it to hurt others. Donnie McClurkin uses his celebrity to take advantage of his audience's "deeply held religious beliefs" in order to promote a specific, insiduous evil (whether he thinks he is "helping people" or not), and, in equal measure, to reassure his audience that their already-existing bigotry is righteous, godly.

Pat Robertson does the same thing.

George Bush does the same thing.

Combine corrupt religiosity with a heavy dose of false patriotism, and you can make the masses believe that eating kittens is right and good in the name of the Lord.

Donnie McClurkin is a hatemonger, no matter what twisted beliefs he uses to convince himself he is not.

Now -- and far more importantly: What makes you think "those who are against the rights of ALL human beings" are more worrisome than those who are against the rights of SOME human beings?

Is it because gay people are in the minority, so our rights are less important than those of any other group that outnumbers us?

Should the Civil Rights Act have been dismissed because there aren't as many black Americans as there are white Americans?

[MzShellG]

68. How can that be completely true....

Since neither Bush nor Pat Robertson was OPENLY gay? It's more self hate and denial than anything else.

[Sapphocrat]

73. Are you playing games with me? With all of us? n/t

[hulklogan]

32. McClurkin has called us child killers and said that Harvey Milk High School

is a breeding ground for child molesters. He also encourages parents to send their innocent kids to ex-gay torture camps where they're subject to all sorts of horrors.

That's what the hate comes from. Nobody hates him for the way he expresses his sexual orientation.

[MzShellG]

39. I know he probably has a complex about child molesters.

Given what he went through. I'm not trying to excuse his views. I know a woman who was molested as a child by a male family member and,all her life, she's had a complex about men in general. All I can say is that things that happen to children leave deep scars, and affect the way they view the world for the rest of their lives. Obviously, the man that violated his innocence was gay so that might explain it. I don't know. I see no reason to be offended by him unless one is a child molester. That seems to be where he is directing his hate, and rightfully so.

[mondo joe]

41. Why are you excusing the damage he does to other kids?

Really, why?

[MzShellG]

42. I'm not excusing anything.....

I'm just saying that whatever damage he is doing, it's not intentional. At least I don't think it is. Maybe he does THINK he's cured. Why else would someone who was oppenly gay, suddenly try to 'cure' other gay people? I think it's denial. I'm saying why hate him when he is just in denial? My point is that he is not evil. Lot's of people love his music and noone talks or even knows about his views or childhood demons. So why is he a villian when many others do waaaay more damage to GLBT kids and adults INTENTIONALLY?

[mondo joe]

43. "Not intentional" is one of your excuses. I'm sorry, but his victim status is NOT a good excuse

to harm others.

He is a villain. So are others. There are plenty.

And the damge he and his peers do to GLBT kids is considerable.

[hulklogan]

44. The man who violated McClurkin's innocence was an evil vile disgusting pedophile

Don't lump gay people in with that kind of trash, please.

Now then, he is not attacking child molesters or pedophiles in his anti-gay rants, he is attacking gay people like me and my brother and the lesbian moms down the street and the lesbian mothers of my brothers child and the lesbian school teacher here in town and the gay organist at my friend's church.

McClurkin is a grown man, he should know better. He probably does know better and is just using his personal history to try and influence more gullible parents to send their kids to the ex-gay torture camps that he benefits from financially.

[MzShellG]

50. I didn't lump together gay people with pedophiles.

What I meant was that perhaps, since HIS was probably gay, he had trouble distinguishing the two in the back of his mind. It's would be difficult if you were victimized that way as a child, especially if you felt that you are a homosexual because of it, as some do. I could be over analyzing. Because of his unique set of circumstances, I'm withholding judgement on him. Obviously he is not help your cause, but I don't think he realizes that.

[mondo joe]

51. His ignorance is not an excuse for the harm he causes. Do you understand that what

he does HARMS gays? Especially gay kids?

Do you understand that?

[hulklogan]

52. You just assumed the man who molested him was gay

but you don't know whether he was or not. Why don't you just call the man who molested him a pedophile?

In the militant straight world all pedophiles are gay.

[MzShellG]

58. So are you saying a male pedophile who molests boys is straight?

What about those catholic priests? Do you think they're straight? Not that all homosexuals are pedophiles. I never said that. I would think that a pedophile who molests someone of the SAME sex is gay. However, a straight person who molests a child member of the opposite sex IS definitely a pedophile, just for the record. Don't get it twisted.

[mondo joe]

59. Pedophilia most often has nothing to do with a gender orientation.

And pedophiles aren't attracted to men or to women: they are attracted to children.

[hulklogan]

61. A male pedophile who molests boys is a pedophile

he could be straight or he could be gay. You assumed that the disgusting pervert who molested McClurkin was gay, when all you knew was that he was a pedophile.

[hedgehog]

78. The person who violated him wasn't gay, he was a rapist.

Rape is about power more than sex.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Are you gay? n/t

[MzShellG]

40. No....why do you ask?

I have a close family member who is and I went through his torment with him. I was the reason he finally came out, by helping him face and accept his feelings. Something his therapist didn't really help him with. I am pretty analytical about society and psychology of people. I'm curious, though, why do you ask?

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Because of your first comment.

I don't understand all the hate toward McClurkin by some members of the LGBT community.

If you're not Gay, you really don't know how a Gay person feels about being discriminated against. Not being Gay myself, I don't feel I have any right to question their feelings. WTF do I know about what should bother a gay person or not? I too had a family member who was Gay, but died from AIDS. I still don't think that gives me any right to question why the Gay community feels the way they do about MCClurkin. They're entitled to their opinions about him. I am not. Though I do think he's a major asshole.

[mondo joe]

47. Thank you. A lot of hetero people want to tell GLBT people how to feel. Not too many want

to understand how we DO feel.

:yourock:

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. You're welcome.

:hug:

[NMMNG]

45. Question for you.

Children are sexually abused by adults far too often. Some are abused by adults of the same gender, others by adults of the opposite gender. When children are abused by adults of the same gender people rail against "homosexuals" and blame it on "homosexuality". But when the children are abused by adults of the opposite gender does anybody rail against heterosexuals or blame heterosexuality?

[hulklogan]

48. Don't hold your breath for a logical answer

Apparently, child molester = gay and if you're offended by McClurkin you must be a child molester.

Some straight people have no shame.

[NMMNG]

54. We've had plenty of the apologists for

people hating gays based on their "deeply held religious beliefs". Thankfully those using the abuse excuse are few and far between but they pop up every now and then.


Child abuse is no excuse for homophobia. Child abuse has nothing to do with being gay; it has everything to do with pedophilia. The claim that most pedophiles are gay males is a RRRW lie. We as progressives should not allow ourselves to fall into the trap of accepting RRRW propaganda.

[MzShellG]

53. As I said in a previous post...

A female family member was sexually abused as a child by a male family member. She is middle aged now and still has a complex toward men. She never got married and doesn't care for it. She is not gay but does NOT trust men in general. I did not say child molester=homosexual. I said in McClurkin's unique situation, HE may have had trouble distinguishing the two because of HIS experience. Someone else said that hetero people can't relate to the hate some in the gay community feels toward McClurkin and I agree, but I'm just trying to understand. :shrug:
I'm not a big gospel fan and wasn't even aware of his history until reading it here. I imagine most people aren't. I think it's pretty sad.

[NMMNG]

55. She does not trust men in general

But is she engaging in a war against straight men/straight people as McClurkin is against gay people? That is what the "Ex-Gay" movement is. McClurkin himself has stated that he is in a war against gay people. That is the difference. McClurkin and others like him are attempting to do very real harm to us. As such they are a clear and present danger. They are not to be pitied or tolerated.

[hulklogan]

56. I'm really trying to be calm. If you are really trying to understand,

why did you say about McClurkin, "I see no reason to be offended by him unless one is a child molester."?

[mondo joe]

57. I think posters here have TRIED to help you understand. I really think if you'd accept

that what we say is genuine, rather than trying to contest it, you'd understand.

[MzShellG]

65. Well...I did try...

And honestly, I don't really know anything about McClurkin's 'war on homosexuals' or 'ex-gay movement' DU'ers speak of. All I know is the gospel singer and the attacks some DU'ers launch on him. I would like a link or something to back up these claims. I degress, in questioning GLBT DU'ers beef with the guy. It's none of my business. This discussion has been pretty interesting to say the least.

[hulklogan]

66. I'm not finding links for any more straight people to research McClurkin

There are several threads in the top three pages of GD: P that have all the links you'll need.

[mondo joe]

69. Then I suggest that you try really hard to understand just this: McClurkin's activities

hurt gays, especially gay kids who disproportionately are homeless and suicidal.

Just try to understand: we care about that. Deeply.

[Sapphocrat]

72. I'll take the "ex-gay" question...

...because, frankly, I don't have the energy right now to go over the whole ugly McClurkin story from the beginning.

So, what is this "'ex-gay movement' DU'ers speak of"?

There are people who think they can "cure" us of homosexuality. That is like thinking you can be "cured" of your heterosexuality, and turn gay.

There are several large organizations devoted to nothing but trying to turn gay people into straight people. The two big ones are Exodus and NARTH, but there are many smaller groups, and groups that are run by various churches.

The "cure" can consist of different methods, from "Christian counseling" to attaching electrodes to a gay man's penis and delivering an electric jolt while he watches gay porn, so that he will associate male-male sex with a painful shock in his genitals. This is a form of "aversion therapy."

Here are some videos of gay Mormons who explain how the Mormon church tried to "cure" them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZt88Kt50k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN-FYuF-tBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeMKmnMfNUo

People who claim to have been "cured" of homosexuality are in deep denial, or simply lying.

Many people who realize that they cannot be "cured" of homosexuality suffer severe depression. Many become self-destructive. Too many attempt suicide. Too many succeed in killing themselves.

Teenagers are especially vulnerable to a constant barrage of "gay is bad, straight is good" pressure. The attempted-suicide rate for gay teenagers is around 30%. This is far higher than the attempted-suicide rate for straight teenagers. Why do think that is?

There was a young man in my town named Stuart Matis (you can Google him). When he realized that nothing could make him straight, he shot himself in the head on the steps of the local Mormon Temple. Stuart's story is not unusual, except perhaps for his choice of where to kill himself.

The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Medical Association are among many "mainstream" professional organizations that have publicly condemned "ex-gay therapy."

You can learn much more about the truth of the dangerous "ex-gay" movement at these links and others:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html
http://www.pflag.org/index.php?id=280
http://www.truthwinsout.org/ex-gay-history/
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/category/gay-exgay-identity/

Any questions?

[MzShellG]

74. Thanks, Sapphocrat.

That is a lot of info so I will bookmark your post. Are these orgabizations associated with McClurkin?

[Sapphocrat]

75. Not officially, that I'm aware of. However...

...another of the five openly anti-gay performers at Obama's South Carolina gospel concert, Byron Cage, supported the views of NARTH founder Joseph Nicolosi at least once, publicly. I wrote about it here:

Byron Cage, in a 2006 radio interview on “La Gospel Talk” (listen to MP3 audio here), agreed with NARTH “ex-gay” founder Joseph Nicolosi that homosexuality is in essence a defect. Cage said that “there’s an interesting passage” in the New Testament in which the disciples (we think he means the Apostles) asked Jesus why a child would be “born lame”; Cage’s answer was that God doesn’t make mistakes — but that God creates such a defect so that “Jesus could heal it.” (Kind of like the argument that Jesus needed Judas Iscariot to betray him, or else he couldn’t have been crucified, and then risen from the dead.)

Cage also said: “I agree with Dr. Nicolosi that there are choices people make to be one way or the other” — and then compared homosexuality to being overweight, as the sort of choice “that could kill us.” Cage then went on to say that one of his mentors had died of AIDS, and another had died of a heart attack, and asked, “Which is worse?”

And Kirbyjon Caldwell's church runs an "ex-gay" program -- or did. You can read about that, and his association with Obama, here.

[Sapphocrat]

64. You weren't aware of his history BECAUSE you are not a big gospel fan.

He is wildly popular among gospel-music fans.

Now I must ask: Why are you bringing up childhood sexual abuse?

Do you actually believe that childhood sexual abuse determines one's sexual orientation?

Do you understand that being gay does NOT mean we have a "complex" about the opposite sex?

And what does your female family member have to do with anything?

[Jamastiene]

38. Interesting post.

While I agree with you that, as a whole, our society and even experts are still not totally educated about the topic, McClurkin is a jerk.

The ex-gay movement is dangerous to gay people. At the least, they are psychologically abusive. At the worst, they have been known to be violent in some cases. That's why it's so important.

I do agree that many people are bisexual and because education is so lacking, even something as minor as a basic dictionary definition of the terminology, they claim they "changed" their sexual orientation when in reality, someone who is truly gay can't just do that. Usually, it is someone who was bisexual to begin with who can claim that. Even then, it's not a choice. None of us "choose" who we fall for or are attracted to.

[Bluebear]

60. Yes, it's a tragedy that McClurkin has to come here and read that he's being called a clown

Oh, wait, I am betting that is not happening.

Meanwhile, "I find the labeling of McClurkin as a "clown" as hateful as any homophobe's taunt." - -

Unreal.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. Calling McClurkin a clown

Is an insult to clowns. McClurkin is a charlatan and a hypocrite and the sort of bitgotry he preaches is in fact responsible for creating the world famous 'DL' evironment, a lifestyle of lies told to please the prejudices of families and chruches influenced by the likes of Donnie. This is a big part of why black people continue to lead the pack in HIV infection, and AIDS death. 10x more likely than whites to become infected. Hmmmmm. Now this is not new nor is it news. Many enlightened Gospel stars and ministers, churchs and community activists have been fighting this deadly bigotry since the early days of the AIDS crisis. People like Donnie do harm to their own, for money and for glory. Better people die for secrets than learn to accept their own children as God made them. That is what Donnie preaches. He is not a clown, he is a mentally ill monster on the lose and nothing less.
There are many vile qotes from this man, made in many vile places like the 700 Club and the GOP 2004 Convention, but the Donnie McClurkin quote that is to me most telling about his true agenda in life, is this gem about his relationship whith George W Bush:
“Traveling around the world, sitting with the president, this means more than anything to me”. More than anything, says a man who claims to be a minister, traveling the world with Bush is priority one. No clown would say such a thing. Only a Bushlicker would say such a thing. An ego filled, status happy Bushlicker.

[NMMNG]

76. I myself wouldn't call him a clown

Not because it's an insult to clowns but because "clown" isn't a strong enough word. I'll not use the names I'd rather call Donnie McClurkin here, however. He's a vile, hateful person with nothing but evil intentions towards the LGBT community.

“Traveling around the world, sitting with the president, this means more than anything to me”. More than anything, says a man who claims to be a minister, traveling the world with Bush is priority one.

I'd not seen that quote before and it terrifies me. I'm sure he'd love to have such access to Obama should Obama become president. :scared:

[Hill_YesWeWill]

67. I believe every person has a right to their sexual orientation,

no matter what that orientation is, gay, bi, straight, ex gay, ex bi, ex straight, asexual,

And, also, I don't care about anybody's sexual orientation, it's completely a non-issue to me. I personally don't feel it's any of my business what others do in their own bedrooms, I really couldn't care less!

The only thing I care about concerning sexual orientation is discrmination because of it.

To ridicuale any human being because of their sexual orientation (in this case "ex-gay) is disgusting, it's disgusting.

[mondo joe]

70. Ridicule is too gentle for McClurkin. He HURTS gays - especially gay kids.

Get a clue.

[Hill_YesWeWill]

71. I'm sorry, I didnt realize that! Ok nt

[hedgehog]

79. I hadn't realized how much a poster boy for the "cure the gay"

McClurkin is. I can see better now why he evokes such a response.

[Creideiki]

81. One thing that confuses me...

Why is it that being raped as a child is regularly trotted out as a reason why a girl becomes a man-hating lesbian, but being raped as a child is also trotted out as the reason why a boy becomes a man-loving homo? One would think that being raped as a child would have the same outcome in both cases. I know in my case I was never abused as a child, had two great straight parents who love me, an extended family that supports the hell out of me, and lots of straight friends that I would walk through fire for and who would walk through fire for me. So, you know, I'm just kind of confused here. Can't it be that poor McClurkin is simply a self-loathing homosexual or bisexual man who really is only deserving of our pity because he can't deal with reality honestly?