solutions versus promises. . .?

[stellanoir]

'scuse me but I find the vacuity of this argument stunningly ironic.

Campaigning is all about making promises and proposals to create solutions. Isn't it?

'Member * saying he wasn't into nation building in '00. . .?

Solutions are contingent on a cooperative Congress and perhaps a lapdog media.

Effectiveness is not predicated by experience alone.

Michelle's take on the experience meme is especially succinct and compelling.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x93740

The "solutions" banner doesn't seem entirely genuine given Hillary's failed health care plan, her husband's loss of Congress in '96 that then turned obstructionist and pissed away time and money on the whole impeachment charade.

What was solved? NAFTA? Outsourcing? Maybe a peace in Ireland.

Sorry I know they were dealing with all sorts of obstructionism and were far better by leaps and bounds over what we've seen ever since.

I just think it's an incredibly lame argument.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. I could not agree more....

if I hear about her 35 yrs. of experience again, I swear I'll upchuck. If she chooses to tout her long history of "experience", then her supporters can't claim that WJC's decisions shouldn't effect how we feel about her. His chickens have come home to roost, so as First Lady she can now be successfully tied to NAFTA, Free Trade vs. Fair Trade, the disastrous Telecommunications Act, and all the rest. She now owns all of Bill's baggage.

[Barack_America]

3. For your sake then...

I hope that she does not win the nomination. I fear that you may dehydrate during the general election. ;)

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. LOL...

Let's hope it won't come to that. :thumbsup:

[stellanoir]

5. And I feel her supporters are being nostalgic and vastly underestimating

collective Clinton fatigue.

That whole angle of "solutions versus promises" sounds like something that came out of a focus group or Madison Avenue, it doesn't even come close to a statement from the heart.

This is from the heart IMHO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william/why-i-recorded-yes-w_b_84655.html

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. WOW! Thanks for sharing....

that was powerful, and I honestly got chills reading how Sen. Obama inspired him and his friends. Something is happening, and I feel it rippling throughout this country, and indeed across the globe. I came late to the party, but after JRE dropped out, it became crystal clear that my choice would be Obama.

Thanks again for sharing that.

[stellanoir]

8. You're are very welcome and my absolute pleasure.

Yeah I found it especially powerful since he had previously been apolitical.

I was spiritually aligned with Kucinich but figured the press would knock him out for petty reasons as they did to a lesser degree Edwards.

But I've never witnessed a phenomenon like Obama in my life.

Just astonishing really.

[OzarkDem]

12. How old were you back then?

Clinton fatigue was a creation of the news media. Bill Clinton left office with some of the highest approval ratings of any president in history.

[stellanoir]

16. That's no question to ask a lady but I was old enough to get sick of hearing

about some stupid sexual dalliance for months on end. Especially when the girl in question was bragging. She wasn't complaining.

I defended him in that BTW in one of the funniest and most scathing things I've ever written.

Yeah people still loved him as a pres but were sick to death of hearing of his personal life.

There are residual influences in the collective is all.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. She can't cling to Bill Clinton and yet reject some of his actions

you either stand on your own two feet or you have to take the bad with the good when it comes to the Clinton legacy.

[stellanoir]

6. I don't even think she has the former option.

There are six feet in this primary race and one of them is in someone's mouth.

And wow hon. . . you earned every one of those lovely hearts.

:hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. As did you

Glad to see you have a bunch as well! :hi:

[stellanoir]

10. kickin' for the heck of it

[OzarkDem]

11. What a load of spin

More right wing talking points of no substance at all

From those of us who were old enough to understand the news back then...

Clinton's health care reform plan was good - it was defeated by insurance and health care industry lobbyists using scare tactics. Had it been enacted we'd be in much better shape now.

Dems lost control of Congress in 1996 as a result of the culmination of Newt Gingrich's conservative revolution in Congress and at the state level. It began years before when Bush I was president.

Y'all make fools of yourselves when you say this stuff. At least get your Democratic political history right.

[stellanoir]

14. so you think "solutions versus promises" is substantive?

I said upthread they had outrageous opposition back then.

But why is she now beholden to the HMO's a big pharma companies?

Something is screwy and this argument is lame in light of the history is all I'm saying.

Happy to be a fool.

Have a nice evening.

[enough already]

17. As someone else old enough to remember....

The health care reform plan failed because it was ridiculously complex and formulated in secret. Hillary made it easy for the pukes to attack because she was so fucking paranoid. Even still, it WOULD have passed had Bill held firm and had the balls to fight for it. Once he folded like a cheap suit by stating, "Maybe we only cover 95% right now", it was open season on the Dems in Congress who had been trying to carry his water for him. Clinton threw every one of them under the bus and it DID cost us the Congress.

[AtomicKitten]

13. K&R: Nail.On.Head.

:thumbsup:

[stellanoir]

15. thanks

I wish more were speaking out about the absolute vacuity of this stupid approach.

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. ahh, what the hell? kick again....n/t

[Skwmom]

19. Maybe this country wouldn't need so many solutions if the

Clintons didn't keep screwing up:

NAFTA (shipping jobs overseas - OOPs it didn't work out as we intended)
Media consolidation.
Voting to go to war against a country not even involved in 911 and a bankruptcy bill that screwed the little guy.

[stellanoir]

21. yup

that's why this meme seems so hollow

[boppers]

20. I'l take empty promises over...

..."solutions" that tend to be worse than the problem we started with.