So Obama tells FL the vote does not count then Obama supporters whine about turnout?

[rinsd]

FL turnout was largely driven on both sides by a property tax measure that would change the FL Constitution and not in a good way. Many have compared the measure to CA prop 13 which has wreacked havoc on the educational and local services since in enaction nearly 30 years ago.

But I notice many Obama supporters are upset because they claim people would have voted if they thought it would count. It did count.

Well Obama repeatedly stated these votes would not count so the blame for the relatively poor turnout of his supporters rests with him.

So thanks Obama by telling Democrats over and over you may have also affected turnout for that property tax measure which seems like CA Prop 13 all over again.

On edit: This isn't about counting these results.

[Moh96]

1. Obama did not tell them your vote doesn't count the DNC DID

[rinsd]

4. .

Check out this memo from the Obama campaign:

TO: Interested Parties

FROM: The Obama Campaign

RE: Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

Because Michigan violated DNC rules by placing its Presidential Primary on January15th, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee ruled that the Michigan Democratic Party could not use the results of the January 15 Presidential Primary to allocate delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention. In other words, no delegates are at stake today in the Michigan Democratic Primary.

All of the Democratic presidential candidates publicly pledged not to campaign in Michigan, none have visited the state, opened offices, hired staff or communicated with voters through television, mail, phones or otherwise. In addition, four Democratic presidential candidates, Obama, Edwards, Richardson and Biden withdrew their names from the Primary ballot in order to avoid participating in the Michigan Primary. Clinton did not withdraw her name even though she publicly committed to not participate in the Primary. Clinton, Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich are the only candidates on the ballot today.

The Obama Campaign is not participating in the Primary and has not instructed supporters
in Michigan whether or how to vote.

Therefore the results of the primary tonight have no bearing on the Democratic nomination
contest.

Florida, whose primary was scheduled for January 29th, is just like Michigan – the DNC applied full sanctions for setting an early primary date and there are no delegates are at stake. As with Michigan, all of the Democratic presidential candidates signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida. Although Senator Obama did not remove his name from the Florida Primary ballot because Florida law did not allow him to do so, Senator Obama is firm in his commitment to neither participate nor campaign in the Florida Primary and its outcome has no bearing on the nomination contest. We raise Florida today because Senator Clinton has scheduled a fundraiser in Florida on Jan. 27th, and there are signs – despite Senator Clinton’s public pledge to the contrary – that she may be planning to campaign in the
state – inquiring about large venues and increased organizing activity – ahead of the
Florida primary.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2008/01/obama-florida-d.html

Our position and the position of the DNC is clear – neither the Florida nor Michigan primaries are playing any role in deciding the Democratic nominee and we are not campaigning in either state.

[sandnsea]

2. Oh brother

The DNC told Florida voters the vote didn't count. This is pathetic. Ethics people, come on, you've got to have some somewhere.

[MethuenProgressive]

3. You'd think Obama would oppose the disenfranchisement of so many black voters.

Perhaps he needs to go back to that exclusive private high school in Hawaii and take some night courses in American History.

[mkultra]

11. or maybe take more money

from lobbyists

[RBInMaine]

5. What drug are you on???

Obama has NEVER said this. It is a DNC decision and is BECAUSE Florida broke party rules and tried to push up their primary. Therefore there was no real campaign there and it would not be fair to seat those delegates as they currently stand. Same goes with Michigan. In fact, in Michigan ALL the Dem candidates pulled out their names EXCEPT Hillary. What does that tell you??? If necessary, we would all like to see some kind of fair accommodation so that Michigan and Florida get some kind of delegation. But THEY decided to defy party rules. Why won't anyone place some responsibility for this on the BAD decisions of those two states? Also, Hillary wants them seated as they now stand because she is losing and desperate (which is also, once again, why she's taking the low road and going negative on Obama). That much is obvious. Hopefully perhaps some kind of re-vote can occur, but if it does it needs to be fair with fair time and opporunity for both camps to properly campaign. Until then, the current DNC decision should stand.

[rinsd]

10. Look at Obama's memo

This was released right before MI,

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2008/01/obama-florida-d.html

A day before FL

"...while the Clinton campaign will likely wave shiny baubles in front of the media to try and divert their focus to certain states – or non-events like Florida – we will stay focused on doing as well as we can in each of the 22 states on February 5th and preparing for the nine states that come in rapid succession in those following two weeks," Obama campaign manager David Plouffe wrote in a memo to reporters.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/01/28/politics/horserace/entry3761980.shtml

U.S. Rep. Kendrick Meek of Miami, a senior advisor to the Clinton campaign, called the Obama campaign's warning about the pledge ''sour grapes.'' He added that Obama was ``doing more than writing off Florida. He's released a statement that will discourage people from going out and voting.''

Obama's statewide campaign chairman, U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler of Boca Raton, defended the campaign's disavowal of Florida.

''The facts are the facts,'' Wexler said.



More reporting from FL newspapers- http://www.sptimes.com/2008/01/16/State/Obama_stirs_fight_wit.shtml

[desi]

24. Michigan ALL the Dem candidates pulled out their names EXCEPT Hillary.

What drug are YOU on? Stop spreading this outright lie. It matters not what the Obama talking heads claim. "ALL" the Dem candidates did NOT pull their names from the Michigan ballot. Check your "facts."

[Pathwalker]

27. Delete.

[rinsd]

28. Psssst read the other post again

[desi]

33. I missed that.

never mind...



eta: Did the poster not read this? "In fact, in Michigan ALL the Dem candidates pulled out their names EXCEPT Hillary." The "fact" is that that is not a fact. lol

[rinsd]

34. Poster misread your headline and sought to defend Hillary.

Just a misunderstanding.

[desi]

35. OK thanks...one of the Good Guys!

K&R

[LisaM]

6. If there were other issues on the ballot, there's no excuse for not voting

I go to every piddly little vote there is. In fact, we have a primary that I KNOW won't count for president on Tuesday. We had our caucuses last week. This is not going to prevent me from attending the primary anyway. I'll cast a second vote for president, even though it won't count, and I'm going to compare the results to the caucus results and see how voting geeks like me measure up against the results of the people who voted out of Obama fever last week.

[shaniqua6392]

9. I voted here in Michigan and there were no other issues on the ballot.

I go to every vote, too. There should not be a do over here in Michigan. If they were not going to count in the end, then why did they even have the primary? They should have just had a Republican Primary and not a Dem one. Ed Schultz has been yakking about how he thinks we should just do a caucus as a do over. WTF? That makes no sense to me other than Obama has dominated in other caucuses so he thinks that it will end up favoring him. It is BS to ask us all to vote again or have a caucus. Just give Clinton her proportionate share of the delegates and give Obama his portion from the uncommitted votes.

[desi]

31. Ed Schultz is just a motormouth much like Tweety.

Has anybody called in and asked him how a "do-over" is going to address the issue of the candidates who have dropped out since your primary was held? There were other candidates on the ballot who received votes. I know that he would want all of those votes to go to Obama but Ed doesn't count in the "scheme" of things.

[rinsd]

13. Exactly. We had 6 major props to vote on in CA.

4 recognizing indian gaming pacts with the states, 1 for school funding and one dealing with term limits.

[JackORoses]

7. it wasn't Obama, It was the DNC

and the votes for the Nominee don't count. No delegates will be seated based on them.

The Proposition on Property Tax is the only reason people came out at all.

Why do you support using damaged election results to select the Nominee?

Do you really want Hillary at all costs?

[rinsd]

12. I don't care about using the results. I am talking about depressing turnout for selfish reasons.

[JackORoses]

21. you are talking about manipulating the selection of the Democratic Nominee for selfish reasons

Don't play dumb, you know exactly what is going on here.

Hillary knows she doesn't have a chance unless she can somehow get MI and FL to count.
So she has turned all her surrogates lose to try and incite the people of FL and MI against the DNC.

You know Hillary would not be saying a word if those states had gone to Obama.
In fact, her cronies declare states which did award delegates as insignificant.

She is sacrificing her Party for her own personal gain.

"I don't care about using the results."

Now you're being plain dishonest.

[rinsd]

23. Except I have always stated that the MI & FL should not determine the nominee.

I have also stated that FL probably has a better case than MI to be included because they had all the candidates on the ballot vs MI where 4 were missing. I see no problem with including FL's numbers in the pop vote count since ultimately that doesn't count towards nomination.

I still think those delegates will be seated by the nominee (IOW once the nominee has been selected) as a peace offering to those state parties.

[JackORoses]

30. how do you feel about Hillary's attempt to use these delegates to win?

[rinsd]

32. I think its an unwise move.

She is better off concentrating on closing the gap in pledged delegates.

If the gap is less than 10 at convention time (not including supers), she would have a far better case than if she were to try to get MI & FL included and the gap then became that small.

[JackORoses]

37. I am proud of you.

You are finally demonstrating that the Rational Part of your brain has not been fully overrun by the Hillarite part.
There is hope for you, yet.

:)

[Moh96]

8. well I think its fair to say now that FL & MI are for McCain thanks to you Hillary

[LisaM]

14. Why are you blaming Hillary? It's not her fault.

Blame Howard Dean for screwing it up and not having enough influence to deal with the state parties in the two states.

[Moh96]

18. bringing up the issue after all agreed and trying to change the rules after the game has been played

all that will put more spot light on the issues and that is never good for Democrats
Dean has no choice but to strip these delegates, otherwise next election you will see all states move up the primary dates and it will be chaos

please be fair if we were to re instate the FL and MI delegates what do you think other states are going to do?
if Hillary is so determined on seating these delegates, why didn't she do so before the primaries took place

do you really think its fair that you give the delegates after no one has campaigned their, and after all other dem. candidates took out their names of the MI ballets but Hillary?

do you really believe Hillary would have brought this up if she wasn't the winner just because her name is more familiar

[flyarm]

38. excuse me..Obama did campaign in Fla..he had commercials running and no other candidate did!

and please do not tell me he had a national buy and that is why his commercials ran here...all other candidates made sure that did not happen..and Obama was told the commercials would run in Fla..

we saw many many of his campaign commercials, so it is disingenuous to say Obama did not campaign in Fla..he sure as hell did and no one else did!

fly

[rinsd]

42. How many times are Obama supporters gonna tell the "No one MI ballot but Hillary lie"

Yeah Obama cared so much about the pledge he took his name off the MI ballot but after Iowa & NH he decided he couldn't wait a week to do a national ad buy that would be seen in FL.

[Clyde Barrow]

47. a whole week?

It's just a week right? What difference does it make? I'm sure no on in FL knew who Obama was before that, and furthermore I'm positive that single fact alone will ultimately cost Clinton the parties nomination.

[anamandujano]

15. inane

[jackson_dem]

36. Hillary is trying to silence the voices of Florida and Michigan?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

46. Hillary did NOT make the rules...get a grip!

[Clyde Barrow]

16. Re: So Obama tells FL the vote does not count then Obama supporters whine about turnout?

It sounds like you're the one whining here.

[rinsd]

17. Hey lampchop!

Stalking is bad....1st 3 posts all responses to me.

[Clyde Barrow]

22. ?

I already told you I'm not lampchop, and as far as only responses only to you, your posts are asinine and irrelevant. I'm just trying to figure out if you have any worth while points to make with them.

[desi]

26. "your posts are asinine and irrelevant"

Then why take the time to respond :shrug:

[Clyde Barrow]

29. Curiousity?

I'm slightly masochistic? I'm really just curious if he's going anywhere with this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. The blame for the poor turnout rests with the ruling

No GOTV, because of the ruling. No organization on the ground, because of the ruling. No door-to-door, or phone banking, or posters, or neighborhood events, because of the ruling. No advertising, because of the ruling. No campaign stops, because of the ruling. No delegates, because of the ruling. And it's Obama's fault that turnout was low? Gimme a break.

[flyarm]

40. ahh the turnout was extremely high for a primary!..and Obama did advertize..he is the only one who

did in Florida.

yes i know it was a national buy..but he was told it would run in Fla and all other candidates avoided doing what Obama did here in Fla.

fly

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. Turnout was disprportinately low relative to other swing states

GOP turnout uoutnumbered Dem turnout - a complete aberration. It';s evidence enough that the DNC ruling suppressed turnout.

As for the showing of the national ad buy on CNN in Florida, do you have any idea what a campaign even looks like? One commercial? Don't be a fool.

[mzmolly]

20. The DNC did offer a solution. Florida can hold another election.

:shrug:

[mkultra]

25. weeeeeeeeeeee

[mckeown1128]

39. Hillary said the vote didn't count too.

She said it on NPR. Loud and clear before MI or FL voted. You are being hypocritical.

[ProSense]

41. Obama is leading even if you include MI and FL

Obama is leading even if you include MI and FL

[intaglio]

43. Another one

so many ignores, so little time

[RiverStone]

44. Why does anybody think the vote will ever count????

What about the DNC telling the state party in FLA and subsequently the voters in FLA....

That because you defied the rules of the DNC - THE VOTES WILL NOT COUNT THAT APPLY TO DELEGATES?

What about that is so hard to understand? All the candidates got it - and granted the voters got screwed - but blame that on the state party.

[Freida5]

45. Let's just give FL to the Republicans in the Fall

[shenmue]

48. Nice to know he wasn't up to date on the electoral process...

Really gives you confidence about him... :sarcasm:

:eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

49. The only folks whining about MI and FL are y'all.

[Egnever]

50. Streeeeeetch!