Clinton LIES about Obama in a brand new WI ad:

[mckeown1128]

She attacked him on not wanting to debate:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clinton_Debate.html#comments

He responded:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Obama_Debate.html#comments

Now she accuses him of attacking her in his response ad:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clinton_Deserves.html#comments


Most importantly: She flat out LIES about his SS plan. She just made things up. (cutting benefits and raising the retirement age) Completely. Totally. (So she attacks, he responds, and than she plays victim and accuses him of attacking her) Between this and the push polling, robocalls, and Lying mailers... do we even bother needing to replace the republicans. Is rove working behind the scenes here or something?!?



Extra: A funny spoof of Hillary's first attack ad.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Parodies_of_the_day_Obama_Messiah_Clintons_Wisconsin_challenge.html#comments

[DJ13]

1. "She flat out LIES "

Isnt that how all conservatives campaign?

[NJmaverick]

58. Didn't we have enough of the lying with George Bush

Can any of us in good conscious support what we faught against for 8 years?

[lapfog_1]

2. Hillary goes negative because, sadly, its has worked for other candidates

just look at the 2000 election and George Bush push polling in South Carolina.

I think it is funny that she attacks Obama for not wanting to debate IN WI (and at the time of the ad release, SHE was boycotting a debate already scheduled for Ohio!) and when he puts out a response ad saying "look at all the debates we have been in" she puts out another ad crying that "Obama ATTACKED me!!! boohooo!"

Say anything, do anything.

[islandmkl]

3. you know how it works...

the regime takes over, cranks out its propaganda, suppresses freedoms, loots the national treasury, attempts to totally subjugate the people, and gets comfortable just breezing along exploiting the masses...WHEN the people get fed up, band together, rise up and overthrow the regime and install a new, free society...where they then begin to crank out their propaganda, suppress freedoms, loot the national treasury, attempt to totally subjugate the people, and get comfortable just breezing along exploiting the masses...

in other words..it worked for Karl, it'll work for others

[elixir]

4. Obama is such a load. He's connecting with the voters and is afraid to debate.

[mckeown1128]

6. Again you sheeple...

Obama has debated 18 times...with TWO count that TWO more on the way. How is that showing him being afraid to debate?


Speaking of debates. How many times did Hillary debate in NY DEM Senate primary???....NONE... She refused.

[ericgtr]

14. Her supporters are affraid she's about to lose

or you would never even be talking about this. If the tables were turned you are going to tell me Hillary would be accepting his requests? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/opinion/21mon3.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin Mrs. Clinton has successfully ignored Mr. Tasini all summer, and now it seems clear that she has no intention of responding to his demands that she meet him in a debate. tisk tisk.

[K Gardner]

52. WHY DO YOU HATE THE VOTERS??? Connecting with people = BAD.

[Johnny__Motown]

59. 20 debates are not enough for you? that is the best attack you have? please try again

[Thrill]

5. Pathetic. But this is what is expected

[rinsd]

7. Shes using Obama rules. Take something inflamatory from the past and claim it as his position.

Obama has done this with Nafta (ignoring any Clinton comments beyond the one's ha can attack her on) and
Hillary is doing it with Social Security using a statement by Obama that everything but privitisation is on the table.

For the millionth time is this everyone's 1st election?

[mckeown1128]

8. Where have you been... Hillary supported NAFTA...

She has for her credit flip floped on it.

[rinsd]

12. "Obama's misleading NAFTA attack"

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/02/obamas_misleadi.html

[mckeown1128]

16. It wasn't misleading....

It was a problem with symantics. He quoted an article that said she thought NAFTA was a "boon" for the economy. Even if she didn't use the word "boon" that doesn't change her position on it.

[rinsd]

25. Falsely quoting someone is a question of symantics?

Just admit its a piece of dirty politics. It certainly isn't out of bounds from the usual campaign bullshit.

Christ the need for Saint Obama to have no stain is incredible.

[mckeown1128]

30. It wasn't dirty politics because she DID support NAFTA...

It would be dirty politics if he screwed up the quote to convince people of a lie but in this case it is the truth.

[rinsd]

33. So relying on false quote & ignoring any other statements = above board politicking?

Why is it so hard to admit this was a stretch at best?

[mckeown1128]

36. HELLO

She SUPPORTED N A F T A. How is it dirty politics if Obama is quoting a magazine that summorized her position. SHE supported NAFTA.

[rinsd]

39. Except she didn't support NAFTA.

Christ even Carl Bernstein who wrote a hit piece book on her has come out and said she was against it.

"How is it dirty politics if Obama is quoting a magazine that summorized her position"

"In a major speech on Social Security delivered in 2005, Obama said, "in 1983 they gradually increased the retirement age, they increased the payroll tax modestly. I think those are all things that have to be considered."

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/10/sweet_column_obama_on_clinton.html

So how is it dirty politics for Hillary to bring up his previous stance in regards to Social Security?

You called that lying. You call Obama using a false unsourced quote as fine and dandy.

And people wonder where the cult perjorative arose from :eyes:

[mckeown1128]

46. 2005 is long before he started running for president.

His current SS plan dose not include those things.


I don't feel like looking up any links for Hillary's previous support of NAFTA. It is out there though. Remember she is running on her husbands time in the White House and NAFTA was all him.

[rinsd]

47. So Obama's statements before he started running don't count?

But Hillary's statement before she started running do?

How hypocritical can you get?

:eyes:

[IndieLeft]

9. What do you expect? She is old guard.

This is why she is going to lose. She just doesn't get it.

[MethuenProgressive]

10. If he's too chicken to debate the mean ol' lady, will he have the guts to debate the mean ol' man?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4586588&mesg_id=4586588

[mckeown1128]

13. GOD D@#$IT.

HE HAS DEBATED HER 18 TIMES... with TWO more on the way... He shouldn't have to jump every time the empress asks him to debate. She is being a hypocrite. She refused her dem primary opponent ANY debates when she ran for the Senate... but she knocks Obama for not doing 20 debates instead of 21. WTF. Do you not get it?

[mkultra]

22. YEAH, hes a coward

Just cus hell debate 8 times doesnt mean crap. How about 9 times mister man!


Its all about her new message

[jackson_dem]

31. Funny how Obama is the only candidate this time who has feared debates

[mkultra]

32. no kidding

The number of debates they already had is meaningless!

[jackson_dem]

43. How many did they have by July when Obama began this policy?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

45. How anonymously brave of you!

[TexasObserver]

11. LYING is the centerpiece of Hillary's campaign.

Especially in campaign materials.

If she had to tell the truth for 24 hours, like in the film LIAR LIAR, this thing would be over in the first hour.

[Barack_America]

15. What a sorry campaign.

Disappointing from top to bottom.

[Alhena]

17. Wow, look at the comments on the politico link- if that's at all representative

of the views of the public at large, Hillary is in deep trouble.

[Political Heretic]

18. OMG that video is hilarious!!

[jefferson_dem]

19. Nothing new here. "Everybody in politics lies, but they do it with such ease, it’s troubling,”

n/t

[LSK]

20. Ironic how she doesnt want to debate on MSNBC

[babylonsister]

60. Actually, I've read she does not. She's gotten over the outrage

she held because of her daughter supposedly, and now she's eager. That ole devil ambition.

[fenriswolf]

21. Thats hillarious

the best they can come up with is "barack obama MIGHT raise SS age and reduce benifits" MIGHT? c'mon. oh yeah and his plan only covers people who want it! It's not a mandate, his way people have a choice which is what a democracy is all about.

[Armstead]

23. Neener -- Neener on both sides

Shaddup and get back to the issues

[Viking12]

24. I live in WI, that's the first time I've seen the Clinton ads

They're not on TV. I see lots of Obama ads, none for Hillary. I think it was a mistake for him to waste his money on the response ad -- the Avg Joe/Jane in WI had no idea about Hillary's charges. DUers and youTube surfers, yes.

[mckeown1128]

26. She is running those ads on tv. nt

[Viking12]

29. I watched 2 hours of TV last night and saw none.

Maybe in other markets but not in the GB market.

[ORDem]

54. Just cuz she's got ads on TV doesn't mean she chose the

right stations. In IA she only put ads on in Des Moines stations. Folks in W. IA get their TV from Omaha, so they didn't see anything from her. Her whole campaign has been like that, one blunder after another while Obama stays consistent, shepherds his money well, doesn't change his slogan every other week.

:dem:

[Renew Deal]

38. Do you think her ads are web only?

It's a good way to get them played on CNN.

[Viking12]

41. She may be running them in MKE and Madison areas....

I live in the NE part of the state which is a completely different market. I can only speak from my experience, I haven't seen a Clinton ad yet.

[jackson_dem]

27. That is because Obama changes his position on the issue so often

It is hard to know where he stands. This may be why he is afraid of having to explain his views to the people of Wisconsin in a debate. He, like Bush, prefers going to events with adoring fans who won't ask any real questions. EVERYTHING. That means no exceptions. Everything=benefits.

May 17

STEPHANOPOULOS: You've also said that with Social Security, everything should be on the table.

OBAMA: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Raising the retirement age?

OBAMA: Everything should be on the table.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Raising payroll taxes?

OBAMA: Everything should be on the table. I think we should approach it the same way Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan did back in 1983. They came together. I don't want to lay out my preferences beforehand, but what I know is that Social Security is solvable. It is not as difficult a problem as we're going to have with Medicaid and Medicare.

[mckeown1128]

35. Your kidding right?

your twisting what he is saying. Everything on the table doesn't mean he will seriously consider doing those things. He has made it clear he will not do those things to SS. "Everything should be on the table" could mean that he does away with SS all together... but I think it is safe to assume he wont do that. Like the Reagan comments, Hillary is trying to twist what his actual SS plan is.

[jackson_dem]

44. I don't go by "hope"

Maybe he should go before the voters of Wisconsin, get challenged by Hillary, and explain his latest position on the issue.

"Everything on the table"=benefits cuts, raising the retirement age. We can't just "hope" he doesn't cut benefits when he gets to the table.

[ORDem]

55. Don't get too upset by this kind of crap. It's typical desperation

from a losing campaign. The turning point was SC and it's been all downhill since then for Hillary. The tide is turning against her. All this whining negativity from HRC is not going to help her one bit. It just plays to people's perceptions that she's cold-hearted and wants to win at any cost. Not saying myself that's a correct perception, but it's out there and she and Penn fuel it every time they complain or threaten.

:dem:

[NMMatt]

28. The last time they went negative Obama beat the polls in SC by a good 10 pts. -nt

[jefferson_dem]

34. WI Gov. Jim Doyle responds: "Clinton hasn’t even been in Wisconsin yet..except in negative ads."

“The fact is that Sen. Clinton hasn’t even been in Wisconsin yet. She hasn’t reached out to Wisconsin voters at all except in these negative campaign ads.”

Called it a “hypocrisy” to attack Obama’s concern for local voters when she has sent “a husband and a daughter in place of the candidate.”

http://thepage.time.com/2008/02/15/clinton-does-debate-about-debates-in-yet-another-wisconsin-tv-ad/

zing!

[DUyellow]

40. LOL

[NMMatt]

42. Nice - should make a good sound bite for the eve. news in Madison and Milwaukee -nt

[AtomicKitten]

49. Oh dear. That's gonna leave a mark.

[K Gardner]

50. Doyle has it covered, so does the MSM. The people of Wisconsin will not

be fooled. The Clintons are operating on a 90s mentality and don't realize the average voter is a bit more sophisticated now than they were then. That Dawg Won't Hunt.. again.

[AtomicKitten]

51. You are a mensch.

thanks for posting the actual ads in sequence ... the truth is elusive around this joint!

[LadyVT]

53. factcheck.org people!!! mediamatters.org!!! stop the spin!

[mckeown1128]

56. What spin? nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

57. I'm greatly amused on this, it might have been mentioned but to good to leave alone :)

CLEVELAND -- Democratic Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has told Channel 3 News that she has not yet accepted or rejected an invitation to take part in the Feb. 26 presidential debate with U.S. Sen. Barack Obama here in Cleveland.

She made the comment during a one-on-one interview Tuesday afternoon with Channel 3 News senior political correspondent Tom Beres. Clinton and Obama are scheduled to debate at 9 p.m. Feb. 26 at the Wolstein Center at Cleveland State University.

"You know, Tom, I've accepted a lot of debates," Senator Clinton told Beres. "I was talking to a Youngstown channel and I've accepted their debate. I've accepted a CNN debate so there are a lot of opportunities for us to debate."

http://www.wkyc.com/news/rss_article.aspx?ref=RSS&storyid=83207