"Florida Law, DNC Rules, Punishments, and Primaries" or "Wow this is really complicated"

[cbayer]

I just read this very complicated explanation of what is going on here and thought I would pass it on for all you policy wonks. Hopefully this will help us have a more informed discussion of this mess.

I would be particularly interested in hearing some debate on possible solutions in light of this information. Is it possible to hold any group responsible? And is there any way for that group to solve the problem now?

Intro:

"There is a tremendous amount of information floating around here, much of it wrong, a lot of it right, about Florida and its primary.... I will attempt, as dispassionately as possible, to add a bit of information to the conversation."

Conclusion:

"What does this mean moving forward? I haven't a clue. The DNC royally screwed the pooch on this one. Obama supporters sure have a good argument the primary that was held should not count, given the DNC's ruling. Clinton supporters have just as good an argument that under the Rules, AS WRITTEN AND STILL IN FORCE, the August 25 action was null and void, therefore revert to the actual rules and count 1/2 the pledged delegates.

What should happen? Well, there my biases might show, so I won't try."

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/15/17261/4418

[flyarm]

1. gee lets see how Obama broke the rules in Florida..and lets see what he said..

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking
Barack Obama held an impromptu news conference after a Tampa fundraiser Sunday.


By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 30, 2007



TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.Obama and others have pledged not to campaign in Florida until the Jan. 29 primary except for fundraising, which is what he was doing in Tampa.

But after the fundraiser at the Hyde Park home of Tom and Linda Scarritt, Obama crossed the street to take half a dozen questions from reporters waiting there.

The pledge covers anything referred to in Democratic National Committee rules as "campaigning," and those include "holding news conferences."

Obama seemed unaware the pledge he signed prohibits news conferences. Asked whether he was violating it, he said, "I was just doing you guys a favor. … If that's the case, then we won't do it again."

[rzemanfl]

4. How is talking to some reporters "holding a news conference?"

It was an impromptu thing, he crossed the street and talked to some reporters. It's not like the fucking podium with microphones the godamned republics had set up for when they "got mad and walked out" of Congress. The Tampa Tribune is a repuke apologist fishwrapper anyway.

[dmkinsey]

6. The key here is "if he's the presumptive nominee"

That's simple. If the contest is settled before the convention then there'll be no objection to seating the delegates.
The whole problem involves the open contest scenario. In that case the Clinton camp will want the delegates and the Obama camp will want to keep them out.
At this point the DNC cannot allow the delegates because they have said that they wouldn't.
There's talk of Michigan and Florida should have "do-over" caucuses. This plays the same as above only reversed: Obama camp is for it, Clinton camp against it.

[flyarm]

8. doesn't matter what the candidates want ..the FDP has said no do over! end of story.

the FDP said no caucus..

fly

[cbayer]

9. Are you sure?

In reading through this, I wonder if there were not some rules broken by the DNC that need to be addressed. It's a mess and if there is a way to solve it fairly at this point, I think we should look for that solution.

[flyarm]

10. well that i swhat i heard the last time it was brought up..FDP was asked to

do a caucus and the FDP said no.

that does not mean there may be stuff going on that i am not aware of.

fly

[cbayer]

11. I know the attached article is very dense,

but it sure made me realize that this is much more complicated that I realized. It takes a while to get through it, but it was eye-opening for me. I think the caucus issue may still be on the table.

[UALRBSofL]

2. cbayer this is how I feel at this point

I really don't care if our vote counts, if our delegates are seated or not. I'm to the point I just don't care. I'm just sick of the infighting between DNC/FDP and the candidates and supporters. In my opinion this would be a good opportunity for the RNC to pounce on FL/MI. If Obama is the nominee the RNC will slam FL/MI with radio and television ads telling the Hillary supporters how disenfranchised they are and that if there vote counted she would have been the nominee. Also, if it is Hillary that's the nominee the RNC would do the same with Obama supporters. I guess the best thing that should have been done would have been a re-do of the primary's in FL/MI but the states have refused. So, let the chips fall where they may and let Howard Dean do what he wants. I'm just tired of it.

[cbayer]

3. I know how you feel.

I probably need to take a few days off from this and go outside for awhile. Just thought I would throw some info out for consideration.

[Maribelle]

5. In Florida, moving the state's primary date starts much earlier than you have recorded.

On November 20, 2006 the new Florida House Speaker took office with a book called “100 Innovative Ideas for Florida’s Future” - - this was to be his agenda.

In the book, Idea number 37 was moving the state’s primary date

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=158932

http://thefloridamasochist.blogspot.com/2006/11/earlier-presidential-primary-date-for.html

Since Republicans were in full control of the house, and the Republican Governor was eager to approve an election reform measure as soon as possible, Democrats were left with no choices except to go along or go home.

On Jan. 23, 2007 Rep. David Rivera (R-Miami) filed HB 537

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=35049&

The rest of the primary date change is history, as recorded by The Sunshine Laws of the Sunshine State.

[cbayer]

7. You might be the best informed person on DU discussing this.

But it seems from this article that the DNC really fell down in their obligations to address this and possible change it. I find it very complex.

And for the record, I did not write this blog. I am just linking to it because it had by far the most factual information I could find.