Donna Brazile is the person responsible for disenfranchising FL voters

[boston bean]

I cannot believe this, honestly. If you want to know what happened in FL, I IMPLORE, I BEG YOU to read this Diary.
Thanks to Cbayer for pointing me to this.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/15/17261/4418

There is a tremendous amount of information floating around here, much of it wrong, a lot of it right, about Florida and its primary. One very good, but incomplete, diary by RenaRF can be found HERE, entitled "Not Like This." I agree with many of RenaRF's sentiments, but am discouraged by a few missing facts, and by the MANY misunderstandings in the comments. I will attempt, as dispassionately as possible, to add a bit of information to the conversation.

First, Florida's actual LAW, as it stands today. F.S. 103.101 actually sets the date of the Presidential Primary for both parties. To have a new primary would require an act of the Legislature and the signature of the Governor, and both are Republican.

Cross-posted at the Big Orange Blog, so if you want people there to see it this is the place to recommend and comment.



The law states, in relevant part:


(1) Each political party other than a minor political party shall, on the last Tuesday in January in each year the number of which is a multiple of 4, elect one person to be the candidate for nomination of such party for President of the United States or select delegates to the national nominating convention, as provided by party rule.

What does this mean? Well, the easy part is that it means Florida's Democratic Party can not hold another primary, in person or by mail. But what else does it mean? Can Florida's Democratic Party hold caucuses, or a mail-in "straw poll"? Well, that's a tough call. On the one hand, the LAW says the party SHALL have a primary and SHALL elect one person to be the candidate, but there's a caveat, "as provided by party rule." That creates a conflict in the statute, since the statute requires a primary, but the Party rules permit caucuses. The Supreme Court, in California Democratic Party v. Jones, et al., described the supremacy of parties in primaries, under a freedom of association analysis.

[Barack_America]

1. What? Donna Brazile moved up Florida's primary date?

Let's get her!




:eyes:

[boston bean]

No, she is the one who decided with no grounds that no delegates would count. read the damn info.

[Barack_America]

6. I did read it. And the truth remains, that if they hadn't decided to jump the gun...

They would still have their delegates.

There's no need "make an example" of anyone if they didn't break the rules in the first place.

Try again.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

16. So Florida would have been punished even if they hadn't moved their primary date?

:shrug:

It goes like this: Horse-Cart. Not like this: Cart-Horse.

[boston bean]

18. when you read, try to comprehend, then come back to me, ok. nt

[MichiganVote]

20. We're not talking child rearing here. The states should have had an automatic

50% reduction in delegates. But noooooooo....Brazille and Co. had to turn this into a huge ass pain the ass for everyone.

Just what we need, one totalitarian state traded for another.

[dansolo]

25. I agree with you

I think that Dean, and the DNC, made a mistake. They should have taken half the delegates, and all of the super delegates away from FL and MI.

[MichiganVote]

30. The GOP will make a huge ass deal out of the "crazy" democrats

because of this BS. Look at us, they'll say to voters, Sure we had the same problem but you don't see us going all bonkers. We're the civilized party!

Sickening.

[Barack_America]

31. What we are forgetting is that they had the chance to move their primaries back...

They refused.

And the fact of the matter is that we would still be having this discussion even if only half of the delegates had been taken away.

The candidate in question isn't concerned about people's "voices", just in securing as many delegates as possible.

[boston bean]

32. Link please to the fact you state that they refused to move their primaries back.

If you don't have one, delete your post.

[Barack_America]

38. They were given 30-days to move their primaries back...

Knowing full well that their delegates would be gone if they didn't.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0807/Florida_primary_found_noncompliant.html

[boston bean]

41. How were they going to do that with a republican controlled congress?

it is a ridiculous argument.

[Barack_America]

45. Well, the Dem's didn't seem to have a hard time getting it through in the first place...

Considering they're the ones who started it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4593109

[MichiganVote]

48. Wrong. The legislation to move the primary in Mi. was begun by a repub.

It went through on a bipartisan vote. The Dem Gov. signed it into law. Two different states, two sets of circumstances.

There will not be another primary in Michgian.

[Barack_America]

51. Sorry, that thread referred specifically to Florida.

There's enough Dem power in Michigan that they could've changed it back within 30 days if they wanted to. The previous poster was specifically asking about Republican-controlled Florida.

[MichiganVote]

55. In Mi. the Dem power as you refer to it, voted FOR the change in primary date.

[Barack_America]

57. Right. So they could have reversed this decision...

...as instructed by the DNC, in order to keep their delegates.

[MichiganVote]

59. Baby, did you pay any attention in Government class? Legislatures

don't answer to political parties. The parties put forth their calendar, the states furnish the machinery to get the needed process for voting and the candidates follow the calendar. In the present scenario all those things happened except a few Dem. candidates left their names on the ballot and few did not. The one who won the most votes was on and the rest became uncommitted.

So you want the Michigan legislature to approve yet another new primary against the party calendar for the sake of one party that decided erroneously to eliminate all of one party's delegates?

Yeah, the republican legislature in Michigan will snap right to it.
:sarcasm:

[PassingFair]

91. We could have had a caucus on ANY date.

The legislature had nothing to say about THAT.

This was WIDELY known.

[MichiganVote]

Well OF COURSE she wants the delegates...you think Obama just wants a Hail Mary?

This is politics. its rough, its brutal and its not for the bleeding hearts. Neither Clinton or Obama are saints. They both sling mud and play games.

[sueragingroz]

8. and she has the audacity

to threaten to quit the party if the race is ended by a brokered convention where the super delegates make the decision.

She helped create this mess by being such a hard ass about the rules... and yet she won't abide by the rules being followed at the convention.

I always had the most respect for her. I so wish that this were not true!

[boston bean]

it's disgraceful isn't it?? I almost can't believe it. nt

[boston bean]

11. it's disgraceful isn't it?? I almost can't believe it. nt

[MichiganVote]

22. Like who cares is she leaves? Doesn't it mean more stupid pundit stuff w/Wolff?

[demo dutch]

64. That's NOT the POINT. FL got screwed by the Rep legislature and REP Gov. & the DNC played along!

Did you even bother to read the article?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

79. Florida Democrats voted for the change

stupid them!

Guess in Florida they think the rules don't apply to them.

[HooptieWagon]

88. Fla Dems not only voted to move primary up

but they introduced and sponsored the bill. vote was something like 113-1 - one lone Dem voted against the move. So the Party apparatckiks not only went along with the Reps, they embraced the idea of confronting the DNC.

[demo dutch]

96. I didn't vote for those fucking clowns, it should be about ME, THE VOTER!!!

[VolcanoJen]

2. Why does Donna Braziille hate America?

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:-)

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

17. Wow.

Chill out. Seriously. I was making a funny.

When I'm spewing shit, you'll know it.

If your candidate's sucky campaign staff had a post-Super Tuesday strategy, you wouldn't be worried about MI and FL. She screwed up, they screwed her, and now you're trying to game your way back into it. It's not a pretty thing.

[boston bean]

19. Well, I did not find it funny, this is a dead serious thread. If you want to mock, do it

somewhere else.

[VolcanoJen]

23. Here's a serious argument for you.

Ohio and Texas sure do look super-extra-smart now, don't they? For not jumping the gun. For thinking that this thing would actually outlast Super Tuesday. For playing by the rules, and to our advantage.

Ohio and Texas are like Iowa and New Hampshire on steroids, now. It's a good thing for this country.

There's some apples for you.

[boston bean]

24. read what happened, then come back to me, stop buying into

a one dimensional O argument.

Find out what really happened in FL and then let's have a conversation, because you could not have read it and still been able to honestly make the reply you made to me.

[MichiganVote]

33. And the GOP doesn't look too bad for not turning a rule break into

a bible lesson either. If this is what we can expect with the Obama crowd---I'm not interested. After 8 years of Bush, I'm tired of the we're right, you're wrong deal.

The rules did not have to include a total ban of the delegates. Besides, in Michigan it was just plain stupid.

[VolcanoJen]

35. It was way stupider in Michigan.

And believe me, as an Ohioan, it is very difficult for me to find a soft spot in my heart about Michigan. (sports thing)

What are the really, really good arguments against a re-vote with both Clinton and Obama on the ballot in Michigan? I respect Sen. Levin very, very much, and heard his arguments today, but really, how can anyone divine where the uncommitted delegates go?

[MichiganVote]

50. Oh come on. They will go for Obama. Just not enuf' to satisfy the O. supporters.

And if the Brazille DNC hadn't been so short sighted and stupid they could have won the state with the AA vote.

[bigbrother05]

95. Wasn't the Obama crowd that made the ruling

or controlled the vote to move the elections. The DNC tried to work out the primary/caucus schedule within their own internal, arcane rules. With everyone continually leapfrogging one another, the party leaders finally drew a line in the sand to keep from pushing the process into Dec 07. Did the Reps help to push MI and FL over the edge for their own benefit? Of course, what else would you expect. Did the Dem leaders in MI/FL try to bully the party leadership to get their own way? Yes, and were more vocal in Dec than they are now.

Part of the calculus of this whole thing has to be that the results from the MI/FL votes in no way accurately represent the will of the voters in those states. Anyone that tries to make that claim is only trying to seat delegates to favor their candidate. It is a crying shame that two such important states have become embroiled in this, but the only winners to be found in the ill will generated are the Reps. Lets hope we can pull our heads out, get behind our nominee, and win them both in the GE.

[Windy]

39. Look. Michigan and Florida Voters were TOLD their vote wouldn't count!

As many sat home as a result, the primary votes in those states cannot be certified. I really do suggest that you stop placing democracy over your candidate. I have noticed in a lot of your posts that you become very irrational in your support of Hillary. I'm sorry MassDem, but I see no difference between you and a rabid rightwinger who blindly supports bush no matter what atrocity he commits. I'm sorry, but I refuse to stand by and allow our country to be hijacked again.

Your arguments have no substance whatsoever. They are based strictly on emotion and blind loyalty.

You do not help your candidate. If she wins the election by the most cast votes, then people may come out to the polls to support her, on the condition that she stops using rhetoric which makes us all understand without question that she has every intention of attempting to take the vote away from the people to gain power if Barack Obama gains a modest number of extra delegates over and above her final tally.

If she and the party are successful at thwarting the will of the people, then many many democrats will sit out the election. I for one, will be unable to cast my vote for her if she wins by coercion!
It would go against everything I stand for!

[MichiganVote]

46. Better anybody in office than another republican

[Windy]

49. If hillary tries to steal the election, she will not get my vote. n/t

[MichiganVote]

53. And you have already made up your mind so what's the difference.

[UALRBSofL]

58. Windy I feel the same way you do but in reverse

Seriously, my vote doesn't count and people say get over it.

[demo dutch]

63. Did you even bother to read the article????

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

81. maybe they did this on purpose, hoping to undermine Dean, the primary and the 50 state strategy

Cause with the Clinton's Big State plan, we lose congress, since most states aren't important.

[no name no slogan]

5. Donna Brazile disenfranchised America's Wang

Do they make state-sized Viagra?

[Yossariant]

44. No, just the Democratic Party's wang. LINK:

"I'm going to send a message to everybody in Florida that we're going to follow the rules," committee member Donna Brazile said.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/08/dnc-finds-flori.html

Notice I kept it short for you.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. And Love the Terrorists?

Ad, she obviously hates powerful women.

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

27. Because America's FREE.

And Donna Brazile hates FREEDOM!

We live in a free country and people should be able to schedule primaries whenever they want to!

In fact, just to thumb their noses at DONNA BRAZILE, Florida and Michigan are going to hold their next primaries in 2011! A full YEAR before everyone else!

So nah! This is what I think about Donna Brazile and her campaign against FREEDOM!

[golddigger]

4. And the Obama people are screaming Clinton. WE have been played.

:mad: :argh: :grr: :nuke:

[Barack_America]

10. ?? What does this mean?

Clinton neither decided to move Florida's primary date nor did she take away their delegates. Everyone knows this.

It's a spat between the state and national democratic parties, plain and simple. Both campaigns should be staying out of this.

[VolcanoJen]

29. Amen to that. n/t

:thumbsup:

[southern_dem]

37. Most of us have been screaming

the Florida Democratic Party. They started this whole mess in the first place.

[boston bean]

7. more.....

Well, you see, the DNC Delegate Selection Rules 2008 were actually written in 2006. The Florida Legislature amended the statute in Spring, 2007. At that time (and actually, still, but read on) the rule said:


Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty (50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state's delegation. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state's delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number.

"Hey, doesn't that solve the problem? Sure, they get less, but they're not 'disenfranchised,' right?" Well, yeah, but then came Donna Brazile. Now mind you, the DNC Rules Committee did not even need to meet, the sanctions were automatic:


Upon a determination of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee that a state is in violation as set forth in subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule, the reductions required under those subsections shall become effective automatically and immediately and without further action of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, the Executive Committee of the DNC, the DNC or the Credentials Committee of the Democratic National Convention.

On August 25, 2007, long after the Florida Legislation passed, Ms. Brazile decided she was going to make an example of Florida. She said ""I'm going to send a message to everybody in Florida that we're going to follow the rules." By "the rules," by the way, she meant the date of primary rules, not the DNC's own rules about punishment. What the Rules Committee really did was create an ex post facto new rule to punish Florida (and Michigan). Did the Rules Committee have the authority to do that? Let's look again at the Rules:


Nothing in the preceding subsections of this rule shall be construed to prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing additional sanctions, including, without limitation, those specified in subsection (6) of this section C., against a state party and against the delegation from the state which is subject to the provisions of any of subsections (1) through (3) of this section C., including, without limitation, establishing a committee to propose and implement a process which will result in the selection of a delegation from the affected state which shall (i) be broadly representative, (ii) reflect the state's division of presidential preference and uncommitted status and (iii) involve as broad participation as is practicable under the circumstances.

[cbayer]

9. K & R

I hope you get more mileage than I did!

[MichiganVote]

13. Interesting.

[Straight Shooter]

15. Every time I see Donna Brazile's name, I know the info is going to make me cringe. n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

21. I have a favor to ask....

I took some cold medicine and am having trouble focusing to read something that long. Could you give me the highlights?

[boston bean]

28. Yes, here you go.

The republicans wanted the date moved up, the Dems went along, but wanted to follow party rules and have it on or after Feb. 5th to follow party rules, so they made two amendments to have it that way and it was voted down by the repug congress.

A paper trail voting law was also attached to the bill, so if Dems went against it, it would mean they voted against a paper trail for voting.

The rules at the time of FL doing this stated that 1/2 of the delegates would not be seated, but Donna Brazile made a ruling with no meetings that FL delegates would not count. It is her ruling, not the official rules of the DNC that are not allowing delegates from FL to be seated.

And she is the one saying that if Super delegates decide this election she will quit the party.

I am mortified by the whole thing. Please keep the link and read it when you feel better.

[southern_dem]

36. I really don't know

what the solution to this mess is but at least according to a journal by madfloridan; it was a Democrat who introduced the change in the law: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

On your post, I'll actually agree. Brazile's actions were kinda shady.

[Yossariant]

62. Here's a link to a Sierra Club letter to the gov about the bill. All the listed sponsors are R.

http://florida.sierraclub.org/tracker/11497.html

I don't think the Sierre Club, whose letter is contemporaneous with the bill passing, had a reason to misrepresent who sponsored the bill. I googled all four on the Sierra Club's letter. They are all Republicans who control the legislature.

The Democrats voted for the bill because it eliminated touch screen voting:

"But everything changed when Florida moved its primary as part of an overall electoral reform bill, which won unanimous Democratic support in the legislature because it also eliminated touch-screen voting."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/07/02/primaries /

I tried reading madfloridian's journal, but the links for proof of assertions made refer back to madfloridians own journal.

Not the most persuasive way to go.

[HooptieWagon]

89. madfloridian's account is accurate

I live in Fla and have followed this debacle since the begining. It was the Fla Dems who introduced the bill moving the primary date up in an effort to confront the DLC, and try and force Dean out. Massdem doesn't know what they're talking about, and consistantly pulls "facts" out of their rear cavity.

[BlackVelvet04]

47. Thank you so much...

wow. What a mess.

I bookmarked it to read later.

[pinto]

56. Help me out here as well. I don't see any citation to a Brazile ruling, just a comment she made.

I checked the national DNC Rules & Bylaw Committee Regulations (see my post below) that were updated in February '07 that seem to state the no delegates from a state found to be in non-compliance would be seated, allowing for appeal time, review, etc. etc.

I don't see how Ms. Brazile could single handedly make a ruling on national DNC committee regulations. She is neither Chair nor co-Chair of the Committee. Last I heard she remains a member-at-large. Maybe I'm missing something. :shrug:

[Florida22ndDistrict]

93. re:

The Florida Democrats had a lot of pressure to push forward with paper ballots here in Florida. In 2006 there were record amounts of absentee ballots that clogged the election system due to voter outrage over the insecurity and lack of reliability of the electronic voting machines. Just before this legislation came up for a vote, there were petitions circulating to pass the ban on touch screen ballots and need for a paper trail. Stories air on local new and NPR stations coving all aspects of the bill without mentioning that moving the primary date forward would violate party rules. There was a lot too it.

[PassingFair]

92. Madfloridian's Journal contains all the information from the beginning.

Half of the poster in this thread will not like it
because it contains FACTS about the REAL situation
FROM THE BEGINNING.

That. Is. All.

[Maribelle]

26. Jeralyn has produced the very best article on this today, that I have read to date.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/2/15/20144/2491

[Orangepeel]

34. The rules committee (of 30 people) voted. What makes you think Brazille did anything unilaterally?

But James Roosevelt Jr., the rules committee’s co-chairman, said he was not convinced that Florida Democrats had done all they could do. He said it was “clear that the Republicans were the moving force behind the selection of a date that violated both the Republican and the Democratic rules, but that the efforts to oppose that were form over substance.”

Committee members made it clear that they wanted to send a message to any state that might be looking to change its primary; the vote came as Michigan leaders are looking to move that state’s primary to Jan. 15. Committee members noted that there had been a long process in setting the calendar.

“We have voted on these rules,” said Donna Brazile, a member of the committee. “The process was very fair, very democratic in every step that we’ve taken.”

Ms. Brazile suggested that Democrats in Florida, given what happened there in 2000, should be particularly sensitive to what the party was doing. “I’m going to send a message to everybody in Florida — that we are going to follow the rules,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/us/politics/26calendar.html

[Emit]

43. And here's the whole list

(I was curious, so I looked this up earlier)

Co-Chairs

Alexis Herman (co-chair, Washington, D.C.)
James Roosevelt, Jr. (co-chair, Massachusetts)

Members

Harold Ickes, Jr. (Washington, D.C.)
Donna Brazille (Washington, D.C.)
Donald Fowler (South Carolina)
Allan Katz (Florida)
Elizabeth Smith (Washington, D.C.)
Mark Brewer (Michigan)
Ralph Dawson (New York)
Hartina Flournay (Washington, D.C.)
Carol Khare Fowler (South Carolina)
Alice Germond (Washington, D.C.)
Jaime Gonzalez, Jr. (Texas)
Janice Griffin (Virginia)
Alice Huffman (California)
Thomas Hynes (Illinois)
Ben Johnson (Washington, D.C.)
Elaine Kamarck (Massachusetts)
Eric Kleinfeld (Washington, D.C.)
David McDonald (state of Washington)
Mona Pasquil (California)
Mame Reiley (Virginia)
Garry Shay (California)
Michael Steed (Washington, D.C.)
Sharon Stroschein (South Dakota)
Everett Ward (North Carolina)
Jerome Wiley Segovia (Virginia)
Sarah Swisher (Iowa)
Yvonne Gates (Nevada)
Martha Fuller Clark (New Hampshire)

http://georgiaunfiltered.blogspot.com/2007/08/whos-on-dncs-rules-bylaws-committee.html

[Orangepeel]

54. thanks for the list! eom

[KittyWampus]

40. with any luck Madfloridian will find this thread and kick your ass.

[pinto]

42. (aside) the regulation cited in this thread comes from the August '06 DNC R&B Committee,

There is a Feb. '07 update that states:


REGULATIONS
OF THE RULES & BYLAWS COMMITTEE
FOR THE 2008
DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION

Issued by the Democratic Party of the United States
Governor Howard Dean, Chairman

Alexis M. Herman & James Roosevelt, Jr.
Co-Chairs, Rules & Bylaws Committee

As adopted by the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, December 2, 2006 and amended February 1, 2007.

*************************************************
REG. 5.2. ARTICLE II.A.

A. Delegates and alternates selected pursuant to a Plan found in non-compliance by the RBC
shall not be included on the list of delegates and alternates reported to the Secretary by
the RBC for inclusion on the Temporary Roll of the 2008 Democratic National
Convention.

B. Delegates and alternates shall not be placed on the Temporary Roll until after the period
during which a challenge may be brought pursuant to the Rules and Reg. 3.4 has expired
and until no challenges to a Plan are pending.

C. Pursuant to Rule 6.C.(2), a state’s at-large delegates and alternates may not be included
on the Temporary Roll until the RBC has determined that the state’s delegation complies
with the equal division requirements of the Rules.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/e824f455b24c7782dc_jjm6ib44l.pdf

(that may cause some confusion as to the pertinent rule applied by the DNC R&B Committee to Florida and Michigan. :shrug: And, fwiw, Ms. Brazile doesn't seem to be on that committee. iirc, she remains a member-at-large. - pinto)

[AtomicKitten]

52. And Hillary Rosen on behalf of HRC called Howard Dean incompetent on tee-vee today.

Stick a fork in it. Hillary and all the others agreed with Howard Dean on the FL/MI plan beforehand. Them's the rules. You are running yourself ragged trying to justify breaking them. If your candidate cannot play within the rules, she needs to take her pie charts and go home.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

82. Hillary/DLC wants to undermine the 50 state strategy & Dean

but with her plan, we lose congress.

DLC hates Dean.

Dems 50 state strategy is bad for GOPs

[DS1]

60. Fucking hate that woman. she needs to fuck off

[BlackVelvet04]

61. So what's up with the whole

DNC authoritarian bullshit? What difference did it make when they had their primaries?

[demo dutch]

65. That's my point exactly, Isn't it supposed to be about the voter not about the fucking rules!

[BlackVelvet04]

66. I don't get it....

this didn't need to be a problem but the DNC wanted to flex muscle and now the voters suffer.

[MaineDem]

67. The parties set the rules for how to select their candidates

The DNC set the rules for the Democrats. ALL states agreed to the rules.

48 states and territories followed the rules. These two state defied the rule and moved ahead of everyone doing it legally. They deserve to be punished in some way.

Florida and Michigan also knew the penalties for doing what they did. This was no surprise.

If you have an issue with this, don't blame the DNC; they followed the rules set out for this type of situation. Take it up with the Florida and Michigan Democratic Parties.

[BlackVelvet04]

69. I just think the whole thing is silly....

I guess what you think is deserving of punishment and what I think is deserving of punishment is two different things. I'm not much into the whole authoritarian thing.

[MaineDem]

80. I never think following the rules is silly

:shrug:

[Maribelle]

83. The State of Florida does not need to follow the rules of the DNC. The opposite is true, in fact.

Republicans rule Florida, not the Democrats that are being unjustly and harshly punished.

[MaineDem]

84. There were options available to the Florida Democratic Party

They chose not to follow any of them, even after offers of financial help from the DNC.

But this was all discussed earlier here at DU. I'm sure it's in the archives for anyone who's interested.

Bottom line is that the Democratic Party does indeed "rule" how each state votes on a nominee. The Supreme Court has already made that clear.

[Maribelle]

86. The offers of financial help from the DNC would have only covered 1/3 the costs, if that much.

What other options were there?

And there were serious problems with the true facts here. And as you can see today - the 'votes' don't count has been seriously rebuked.

The Democratic Party has to follow the laws on the books in Florida. It can work to try to change them, but it has to follow all existing laws.

[BlackVelvet04]

87. I think the rules are silly....

let them have the damn primary when they want.

[Cameron27]

68. K&R

Bookmarking for later.

[suston96]

70. Donna Brazile or anyone else cannot negate the Democratic Party Charter.....

....which states in part:

Section 4.

The National Convention shall be composed of delegates equally divided between men and
women. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which:

(a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate and include
affirmative action programs toward that end,

(b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who
participate in the Presidential nominating process.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:i1Dy8P2UOcoJ:www.democrats.org/pdfs/charter.pdf+Democratic+Party+Charter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

The parties are "supreme"? Really, then they must follow their charters, which, I repeat, in the Democratic Party says:

......processes which (i) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate ......and assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the presidential nominating process....

The USSC? Oh, yeah.......I remember something.....

Defeated in the lower courts, Smith finally found justice in the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 8-1 that the Democratic Party and its primary were not "private and voluntary" and, thus, were duly bound by constitutional protections governing the electoral process and the rights of all citizens.
Smith V. Allwright

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?S=R&bid=9300875578&cm_mmc=shopcompare-_-base-_-isbn-_-na

[madfloridian]

71. Oh Dear God...not the old paper ballot thingy again.

The Florida Democrats were in on the planning from the beginning.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

[HooptieWagon]

90. Thankyou so much for staying on top of this

There is much misinformation being spewed by the Hillary supporters. Thank you for your tireless efforts in confronting those who are spreading lies.

[madfloridian]

72. The Democrats introduced the bill...they were all for it. They were warned for months.

They thumbed their noses at the DNC, they humiliated the chairman in the Florida media, they laughed and scoffed and acted like fools.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

Talk Left has been on a total crusade against the DNC. Period, bottom line.

[Maribelle]

73. When Donna Brazile said 'to make the system fair for everyone' exaclty who was 'everyone?

I would like to know this.

It appears nothing has been done by the DNC nor their rules committee that can be considered fair to the 1.7 million democrats voting in the January 29th primary, to whom Donna wanted a swift and harsh punishment.

Donna Brazile, a member of the rules committee who argued for a swift and harsh punishment for Florida, said states' desire to be more relevant in the nominating process does not excuse violations of rules intended to make the system fair for everyone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html

[Maribelle]

77. Also, I wonder if Donna even cared about Democratic efforts?

The Sunshine Laws in Florida facilitate the tracking of all bill activity in the state legislature. When we look at the activity on HB 537 we can see the efforts of the Democrats against the majority Republicans.

The Democrats twice filed updates to Page 4 Line 6 - - trying to have the primary date changed on the bill to the first Tuesday in February. They tried, but they failed.

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=874499.doc&DocumentType=Amendments&BillNumber=0537&Session=2007

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=290105.doc&DocumentType=Amendments&BillNumber=0537&Session=2007



The above documents are found on the activity list of HB 537:

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=35049&

[Evergreen Emerald]

74. She is an Obama Surrogate. She pretends to be neutral yet

constantly attacks Clinton and makes statements that are right from the Obama talking points.

She was there shouting racism from the rooftops when Obama needed help in SC.
She is there with the Super delegate propaganda.

Just like the Clinton advisors who Obama demanded by removed from the media, she should be removed also.

[madfloridian]

75. Attacking Donna Brazile is a great move....just like going for FL delegates.

Keep it up. Keep it up.

People are not stupid.

[Evergreen Emerald]

76. apparently they are.

And, I disagree with your characterization that my comments are "attacks." What the hell have we become that we cannot have a discussion without vitrolic emotional division?

[Maribelle]

78. Yes she is an Obama surrogate ...

and has displayed this many times through MSM. You are correct.

[madfloridian]

85. Blaming Dean, Donna, the DNC itself......always someone else's fault.

It's a great tactic by Hillary and her supporters if they want to benefit Obama.

Florida was at fault, can not take responsibility, and Hillary supporters keep pursuing it. keep it up.

[Infinite Hope]

94. Thank you Donna and the DNC for providing leadership and accountability...

rather than being a "parent" who says one thing, but never holds their children to account.