LulaMay
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:37 PM
Original message |
The DNC has made a mess of our primary. They must seat delegates from FL and MI |
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or this race will not be seen as fair or ethical.
No candidates campaigned in FL., except Obama ran tv ads...and Hillary won by a wide margin. FL is an important swing state, and our party can't ignore voters and delegates there, unless they wish to anger them so much we end up losing the state in the general election.
How stupid can the DNC be?
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AtomicKitten
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message |
1. The DNC struck a deal with all concerned. They settled it. They did their job. |
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It's the changing the rules in the middle of the game cuz you're losing folks that are trying to make a mess of this primary.
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bellasgrams
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
11. The citizens that voted did not agree to it. and should not be |
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ignored. It's not democracy when your vote doesn't count. We might as well live in a dictatorship.
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AtomicKitten
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
18. FL and MI were told beforehand the election was not sanctioned and would not count. |
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Edited on Fri Feb-15-08 11:53 PM by AtomicKitten
Hillary is trying to skate on name recognition only (they were not allowed to campaign in Florida and Michigan) and for crissakes not having all names on the ballot in MI was also not democratic.
The actual democratic solution would be to allow them campaign and re-vote. Otherwise, stick a fork in it because as self-righteous as you think you are spreading your "democracy" theme here, we all know what democracy looks like and what Hillary is proposing ain't it.
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LulaMay
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
25. A stupid move for the DNC. FL voters & delegates won't just take it laying down. |
AtomicKitten
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
28. Will you huff and puff and blow the convention doors down? |
Yossariant
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
34. Count the votes! Don't count the votes! The Democratic Party is schizophrenic. |
AtomicKitten
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
36. Come on, Shelly. Do you really need help discerning that distinction? |
Yossariant
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
47. The voters do --- and the Democrats will lose the White House. |
nebenaube
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
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after all they f(cked themselves for eight years!
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WillYourVoteBCounted
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
76. screw them, they knew the rules and Hillary agreed to the rules |
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of course the rules don't apply to Clintons.
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VotesForWomen
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Sat Feb-16-08 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #76 |
97. yeah, screw 'em; as long as O's the nominee, who cares if we lose? nt |
fadedrose
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
40. Everyone was told in advance that their votes didn't count... |
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and they had the primary anyway.
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Dark
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
89. They should have written their representatives who decided it and said "don't screw this up." |
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They didn't play by the rules, so their votes don't count.
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WillYourVoteBCounted
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
75. the folks who pushed FL and MI first are aiming to undermine Howard Dean |
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the ones who broke the rules are laying blame at the feet of the institution that made the rules.
There is also concern that the people behind the MI and FL leap frog intentionally want to undermine Dean.
Dean wants all 50 states to go democratic, Hillary is only for the "big" states, which would in effect leave control to the repugs.
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DJ13
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message |
2. "or this race will not be seen as fair or ethical." |
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What was fair about Hillary being the only name on the Michigan ballot?
What was fair about basing the Florida primary solely on name recognition?
You want fair?
Force Michigan and Florida to let Dean hold caucuses, where both the voters AND the candidates get a fair chance.
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bellasgrams
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
29. All the names were on the FL ballot if people wanted to vote for |
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BO they could. BO was the only one that ran ads in FL There's no reason to have another vote. In Mich. Hillary wasn't the only name on the ballot, Kuch, and a couple of others didn't take their names off. It's no ones fault but BO's that he removed his name. He wasn't told to remove it. The voters shouldn't have to have a redo just because BO screwed up.
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Kittycat
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
44. People were told their vote wouldn't count, and many didn't vote. |
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Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 12:26 AM by Kittycat
Unless you were a property owner, there was no reason to show up and vote. I've heard one caller after another complaining about that. Some were even told it was a Republican primary - no need to bother.
If anything, they deserve a re-vote, but nothing less.
And don't be an idiot, you know Obama didn't mess up. This was the state chairs that messed up. ALL the candidates signed on to the rules.
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MonkeyFunk
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
66. You are now the ninth person |
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I've seen in two days claim that Clinton was the only name on the ballot in MI.
Does somebody send out a fax with the lie of the week on it?
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Mme. Defarge
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message |
3. How conveeeeeeeeeeeeenient |
johncoby2
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message |
4. Blame the Fl and Mi Democrats. |
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They broke the rules knowing the consequences.
How stupid can they be?
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fadedrose
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
46. Maybe not so stupid - was it a clever ploy? |
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To get HRC the most votes and thus the whole state?
Edwards and Obama would have done better in MI than any other state because of the high unemployment and the black population around Detroit. We will never know.
And the idiots who ran the primary SHOULD HAVE MADE SURE THAT ALL CANDIDATES NAMES WERE ON THE BALLOT, and not go around telling people to vote "Uncommitted" or Republican to help choose the candidate we'd best like to run against.
This was not stupid, it was highly unethical possibly done by stupid people, but the act itself was not stupid.
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Birthmark
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message |
5. When the DNC wakes up the day after |
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...the General Election and realizes that they lost FL and MI, putting McCain in the White House, I'm sure that they'll feel satisfied. Gotta uphold those (pointless) party rules, you know.
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fadedrose
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
49. Can't understand how you can come to that conclusion... (nt) |
Birthmark
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #49 |
54. What other conclusion is there? |
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Difficulty: It has to make some sort of sense.
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fadedrose
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #54 |
65. Your conclusion seems to indicate that you support HC |
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Yes, HC could lose if the vote is so close that she needs MI's primary votes to go over the top. It appears that she would get a huge majority of those votes (illegal votes).
You seem to be suggesting that McCain will beat Obama when all polls show differently. Obama is hot.
That's why I don't understand how you put McCain in the White House. I think that Obama has a better chance of beating McCain and hope he doesn't have to go up aginst delegates who represent illegal votes.
ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, do you get it yet?
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Birthmark
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Sat Feb-16-08 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #65 |
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Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 06:57 AM by Birthmark
I disliked both of the Clintons long before it became fashionable. So you are dead wrong. My interest is only in what's right or wrong. Who wins isn't my problem since my guy got beat...even in Florida.
Illegal votes? Oh, the drama! Did you call the police? Let me know when they're coming around. I'll make a pot of coffee for them.
You do realize that you are engaging in circular logic, don't you?
As for President McCain...I wouldn't trouble too much about the polls right now since they are National polls. It should also be remembered that FL hasn't yet *really* been denied its delegates, so the anger isn't there yet. Many of us still believe that the DNC will pull its head out of its posterior and do the right thing. I think that if they merely pull their heads out half-way it will suffice...though a bit awkward and unattractive.
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WillYourVoteBCounted
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
77. There's the Democratic Natl Party, then there's the Clinton Party |
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one favors a 50 state campaign, the other favors a "big state" campaign.
The Clintons will grab power anyway they can.
Break the rules, lie or cheat.
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WillYourVoteBCounted
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Hillary agreed to the rules Don't blame the party, blame Hillary |
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Hillary agreed to the rules.
She made her bed, now she can lie in it.
Of course who expected her to think the rules applied to her?
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LulaMay
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
13. Blame her for what? Getting the most votes? The DNC did this, not her. |
Codeine
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message |
7. FL and MI made their decision. |
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They can live with the consequences. The scenario was clearly laid out before they made their choice. This was not a surprise.
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ProSense
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message |
8. Rules are rules, but Obama is ahead even if you include MI and FL |
LulaMay
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
15. Not when she wins Ohio and Pennsylvania and probably Texas. |
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She has won almost every major state contest.
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Orangepeel
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
31. Is the definition of "major state" one that Clinton wins? n/t |
ProSense
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
32. "When"? She hasn't! n/t |
Dark
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
90. I live in Ohio. Ain't no way we're voting for Hillary. |
Danger Mouse
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message |
9. Why are you blaiming the DNC for something done by the FL and MI Democratic Parties? |
cbayer
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
22. It's just a lot more complicated than that - at least in Florida. |
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Although this link is very dense, if you really want to be informed, please take a look at it: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/15/17261/4418
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stellanoir
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message |
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She broke the rules and is losing. Get over it.
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Yael
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message |
12. Because without rules, we have anarchy |
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But best of luck to you with this. Consider your voice cancelled by mine on a 'seat them without a revote' issue.
:hi:
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LulaMay
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. This isn't a rulke, it was a bad decision that disenfranchises voters and will cause chaos at |
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the convention. It was very stupid of them to do.
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WillYourVoteBCounted
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
79. The Clintons are royalty and rules don't apply to them |
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Thats why they are so polarizing.
There are no rules if you are a sociopath.
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skipos
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message |
16. Hillary supporter, huh? |
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Nice try, acting all concerned. Hillary didn't give a flying fuck about us until it became clear that the coronation was going according to plan. I don't buy her "concern" and I don't buy yours either. You don't tell voters that an election won't matter, and then tell them after the results come in that it DOES matter, just because it benefits your candidate.
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williesgirl
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message |
17. Voters in both states knew it wouldn't count for delegates, some stayed home as a result. Now you |
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want to say it'll be fair if the others' votes do count? bullshit. They can't change the rules after the fact, regardless of whether we all agree the rules weren't ok to begin with.
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anamandujano
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
61. Not as many as those who stayed home in the puny caucus "big wins" for Obama. |
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The tiny percentage of voters in the caucuses would be funny if it weren't so stupid. And the Obama supporters trumpet these states as big wins.
It must be hugely embarrassing that Hillary got more votes. If people did not like her, they would not vote for her, they had other choices including uncommitted and leaving it blank.
Add to that, the Obama supporters are always criticizing Hillary's campaign. What about the tactical error Obama made in removing his name from the ballot in the two states. That's a biggie. He probably knew he wasn't going to make much of a splash.
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billyoc
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message |
19. Right or wrong, for better or worse, the DNC will not budge on this point. nt |
Dogmudgeon
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message |
20. The best solution is ... |
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Get the candidates together with Howard Dean and a number of the party mugwumps. Keep the email lines open for reaction.
Assemble all the disputes -- the FL and MI delegates, the superdelegates, whatever else is bugging the two camps.
Propose solutions, get feedback from the "PLEOs*" and the netroots, and work it out.
Then finally settle the disputes by reaching mutually-acceptable agreements.
No arm-twisting, no cheating, no grandstanding necessary. Simple, fair, and Democratic.
Do the same thing at the convention, because it's nearly certain that nobody will get that 2025 (a.k.a. "Hillary can't win without 63.9%").
We're Democrats -- you know, the party that loves intra-fighting but unites and consolidates itself like a fist for the general election.
As a Hilbot second and a Democrat first, let me tip my hat to the loyal opposition:
As Obama Girl once said, "the Eye of the Donkey!" Let's get it.
Nine rounds and peace.
--p! *PLEO - Party Leaders and Elected Officials.
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cbayer
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
23. OMG, that is so democratic!! It will never fly. Never, I say. nt. |
haroldgiowa
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Fri Feb-15-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message |
21. I will agree Florida should be counted. |
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All things being equal Florida was a level playing field. Clinton's, Edwards' and Obama's name were on the ballot. Obama did campaign indirectly by buying cable time that did show in Florida, but not to any degree that it helped him. These votes should be divided up as they normally would have.
Michigan is a different deal. Edwards and Obama removed their name from the ballot,leaving only Clinton's name. This did give her an unfair advantage over Obama and Edwards. These delegates should not be seated from the primary results.
This is a fair compromise. If these candidates are all about compromise they should be acceptable to these terms. If they are unable to reach an agreement then I question their ability to lead the country on more pressing issues. Both sides need to take the high road. As a neutral observer I am not seeing it.
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LulaMay
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
Yossariant
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message |
24. Democrats will not win the White House. |
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Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 12:04 AM by Yossariant
Too many people are already being persuaded by the argument that the Democrats are a bunch of idiots -- and they really don't care or notice which group within the party is the idiotic one.
In my local forum, the Republicans are saying that we're idiots and most of the center agrees that we yelled, "Count the Votes!" in 2000 and now we're yelling, "Don't count the votes!"
It's an argument that is impossible to defend.
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LulaMay
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
26. Wow...you're positive. McCain hasn't even been in a debate yet. |
Yossariant
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
33. It's the Democratic Party, itself, that is driving the discussion, not the candidates. |
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Unfortunately, McCain is not a bad choice for many in the middle.
Like a comfortable old shoe.
Please don't infer that I think it about him. I loathe McCain and the GOP.
All I'm saying is that I post in a mixed board and the Democratic PARTY has lost ground with the Independents and it's because of "Count the votes!" "Don't count the votes!"
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Johnny__Motown
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message |
30. NO They must NOT seat our delegates or this will not be seen as fair or ethical |
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The rules were broken. How the hell can you call breaking rules and not paying a price for it fair or ethical..Scooter Libby... is that you?
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
37. Screw the Florida Democratic voters! |
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Tell 'em to eff off.
And count heavily on them just forgetting all about it eight months from now.
Just hope.
Yes we can.
:eyes:
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Johnny__Motown
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
43. Clinton is snubbing voters in every state she loses, You can't have this both ways |
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Voters in states that elect Obama don't count but voters in states that break rules need to be defended?
Come on, you can't honesty believe the crap you are posting here, can you?
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
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can you not take a step or two back and consider the effect of telling those voters they don't count now on November?
Just consider it.
Try.
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WillYourVoteBCounted
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
80. Clinton only cares about the "big states", hence we get controlled by GOP |
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Their creepy Blackwater campaign advisor said that the states Obama won are not important.
The Clintons don't care about getting a majority in the house, they just want the presidency.
Our country is predominently democratic, but since people like the Clintons don't care about all 50 states, we end up with repug rule.
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message |
35. Yes, simple logic roundly rejected. Like I said in another thread, it ain't rocke science. |
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We tell them they don't matter now, why the hell would they show up to support us in November?
A corner we are in thanks to some shortsightedness on the DNC's part.
I wonder what percentage of Dem voters in FL, disenfranchised once again, say just the ones (the majority) who voted for Hillary, will say "no, fuck you" to the party in November?
But this is crazy talk to many Obama supporters on this board. We lost the state handily when anti-buch sentiment was running high last time around. We won't have that motivator this time around.
Tell FL voters their votes are meaningless, once again. See how many show up in November.
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wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
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*Tell FL voters their votes are meaningless, once again. See how many show up in November.*
They were told their votes were meaningless in FEBRUARY, and they came out and voted anyway.
Seriously, do you really think they are going to run out and elect McCain out of spite?
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #69 |
78. No, man, I think they might just decide to stay home. We lost FL in 04 you know. |
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Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 02:28 AM by Skip Intro
And that was with the strong winds of anti-bush sentiment.
That ain't there this time around. bush is gone no matter what.
Think it will have no effect in November to tell these Democrats, who voted in the FL primary, that they don't matter now, but please come back and support us in a few months?
The disconnect from reality really is astonishing.
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wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #78 |
84. You are missing the point again |
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They were already told their vote didn't matter. Up front. That Primary didn't count.
They willingly participated in a meaningless exercise, and now they are going to be bitter because even though they were explicitly and blatantly told their vote doesn't count they are going to be angry that, er, their vote actually doesn't count? Just like they were told in the first place?
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #84 |
87. Yeah, they just voted for the hell of it. Nothing better to do than cast a vote that doesn't matter. |
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Yeah, that's what happened, none of them had anything better to do that day.
What, a million or so? Of our CORE support? Yeah, what the hell were they thinking?
Please.
You being monitored right now?
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wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #87 |
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You're argument is that even though it was widely acknowledged and announced that the FL primaries were invalid and that none of the votes would count, EVERYONE in Florida just assumed that was a lie, or made up, or not really real, so they went out and dutifully pulled the lever for Hillary fully expecting that the vote that everyone everywhere was telling them wouldn't count, would count.
That's your argument?
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #88 |
91. A lot of them pulled the lever for Obama. What about them? |
wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #91 |
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Doesn't matter either.
I respect that some people went to the booth anyway even though they knew it didn't matter, whichever way they voted. Good on them.
But it didn't matter. They were told up front it didn't matter, this wasn't some bait and switch. If they are angry they should rightfully be throwing out their state Party officials who are complete numbnuts for thinking they could force the DNC into changing the system. And if they stay home, it is those party officials who are to blame, not the DNC who has to keep at least some sort of order in this thing.
Again, the DNC cannot AFFORD to let FL get seated, or they will have chaos in 4 years when 48 other states start jockeying for primary position knowing the DNC won't penalize them. Why is this so hard to get?
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #93 |
94. We will lose this year if we don't carry FL. |
wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #94 |
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But if you change the rules midgame you will tear the party apart. That has a lot of long-term ramifications past just this election.
Again, the DNC is not to blame, they spelled out exactly what Florida had to do to have their votes count.
Florida ignored them.
It is up to Florida to make sure the people who made those decisions pay the price, not the DNC. If you have an issue, talk to the Florida Democratic Party.
p.s. We will not lose the general without Florida. McCain is a disaster, half his own party hates him. About the only thing that will rally conservatives to vote might be rallying against Hillary, who they universally can't stand.
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #69 |
82. BTW - welcome to DU - just reviewed your posts, and if you're interested |
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Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 02:38 AM by Skip Intro
you definitely have the talkig points down
in an ineffective sort of way
enjoy your stay
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wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #82 |
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Thanks?
Is there somewhere I can go to get the more effective talking points?
You know, to fit in with the experts like you?
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fadedrose
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message |
38. The DNC is in the right |
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The DLC and elected officials in Michigan told the DNC to go to hell with their rules and had the illegal primary in spite of being warned.
I live in Michigan and do not want the delegates seated. Morons decided the primary system and anyone who follows them is a ...well.
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SoFlaJet
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message |
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it was THE REPUBLICAN STATE LEGISLATURE who switched the Florida primary date-they control the state house and senate-THEY DID IT!!!! NOT us...the democratic party should reschedule another primary and pay for it so WE the Florida democrats aren't made to suffer...people didn't even bother going out to vote since we were all told it wasn't going to count anyway-I went so they wouldn't mysteriously take my name off the rolls like they did to me in 2000
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still_one
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
57. I agree with you, and they should redo MI also. COST should NOT be the issue |
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Nothing is more important then insuring that people vote.
if cost is the issue, the DNC should pay for it, the enthusiasm generated by this election should get more than enough contributions to finance it.
Anything but a redo of the primary is unfair
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yewberry
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
68. It wasn't the "republican state legislature" that switched the primary date. |
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The FL Dems were absolutely on board for this, and they've been really deceitful about it.
I agree that if the delegates will be seated, there should be a caucus...but Nelson won't agree to it.
I really don't think the delegates should be seated, though. I really feel for FL Dem voters, but the state party is responsible for this mess and the DNC has to follow the party rules. The state party unquestionably caused the disenfranchisement of their own constituents.
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Eurobabe
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message |
42. Bullshit. The DNC must NOT seat these delegates |
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Play by the rules or suffer the consequences.
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pingzing58
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message |
45. We all grew up in an age without access to information like today. |
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The DNC needs to know that they are no longer our Lords. They can't just force us to do their bidding. Florida and Michigan have a right to express their opinion without fearing "mob" style politics. I did not contribute to the DNC this year for that. It's time to listen to the people and take power away from the DNC. My question to the DU is what can be done to punish the DNC other than refraining from funding them through member contributions.
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Johnny__Motown
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
48. Wow that is just dumb, you can't let everyone break rules whenever they want |
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DNC are not our lords, they simply set the rules by which we play this game called politics.
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pingzing58
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #48 |
53. Ok Johnny so just capitulate to the DNC authority? Based on what reasoning? |
HooptieWagon
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message |
51. No, blame the Fl Dem Party apparatchiks |
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namely Hillary supporters Bill Nelson and Karen Thurman. It was Fl Dems who introduced and sponsored the bill setting the date. Fl Dems broke the previously agreed upon rules, and were warned of the consequences. DNC (Dean) even tried to broker a compromise that satisfied the rules, and were rebuffed. No... blame the Fl Dem party elites for disenfranching the voters. Shows how much the Hillary-supporting party establishment cares about rank and file dems. Hint: they don't; all they care about is getting and keeping power.
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #51 |
52. they'll blame the Democratic party. And they won't forget by November. |
still_one
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #52 |
56. and neither will the other sides supporters unless their is a redo |
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We WILL go down in flames, and deserve it
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Yossariant
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Sat Feb-16-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #51 |
98. Wrong. It was sponsored by Republicans who have the majority in the legislature and the governor. |
still_one
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Sat Feb-16-08 12:47 AM
Response to Original message |
55. No, the Democratic party in THOSE states made a mess out of it |
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They knew what the rules were
The only way those delegates should be seated is if there is a redo
As far as your premise that they will anger those voters so much we will lose the state in the general election, my argument is they will anger those candidate's supporters that were told not to have their names on the ballot in MI, and it won't be just losing a state in the general election, it will be the general election period, because they will have angered those supporters whose candidates who followed the DNC rules
If you don't think that could happen, just watch. The nominee may be chosen because MI and FL are delegates are seated without a redo, but they won't win the general election if that is how they win, and neither candidate can win the GE without the other candidate's supporters
REDO THE ELECTION, the excuse that it is too costly only shows they don't care if all the votes are counted
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Tarc
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #55 |
58. You can't redo an election, it just isn't feasible |
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even the GOP can be right once in a lifetime; we should just seat half the delegates, like they did to their rogue primaries.
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JCMach1
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:10 AM
Response to Original message |
59. They will be seated if Obama wins out... if it looks like Hillary, there will be a HUGE |
Obamaniac
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message |
60. No politicians in MI and FL made this mess |
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by trying to manipulate the vote in their states by giving Hillary an edge. It backfired and they shouldn't be allowed to count.
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #60 |
62. The DNC made this mess. |
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Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 01:44 AM by Skip Intro
They should have had a "punishment" that didn't result in telling our own party's voters in those states - our people - that they are meaningless.
The punishment is where we shot ourselves in the foot and brings us to this predicament today.
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wileedog
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #62 |
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do anything that allows the FL or MI votes to count, the DNC invites complete anarchy 4 years from now.
Every state will push their primaries into January, each trying to outjockey each other to be the new Iowa or NH. And they will know that no punishment will be forthcoming for doing so.
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #71 |
74. yet if they hold to the current "judgement" - they risk alienating our very core support in FL |
WillYourVoteBCounted
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #62 |
81. Lets see, if MI and FL had followed the rules like the rest of us |
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then this wouldn't be happening.
But some dishonest people decided to break the rules, figuring that we would all kiss their asses and like it.
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Skip Intro
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #81 |
92. How ironic is it that your screen name is WillYourVoteBCounted? |
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can't make this stuff up...
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dysfunctional press
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message |
63. if the FL and MI voters KNEW ahead of time that their delegates would NOT be seated... |
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why would it "anger them so much" that they wouldn't vote for the party candidate in november?
or are you just referring to those voters whose candidate ultimately doesn't get the nomination?
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DadOf2LittleAngels
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Sat Feb-16-08 01:52 AM
Response to Original message |
64. So long as they allow a revote... |
dchill
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:01 AM
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Beregond2
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:09 AM
Response to Original message |
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No way. Those states made their bed and they can lie in it. Any changes now would only lead to chaos, and the whole election being made to look bogus.
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LadyVT
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message |
yewberry
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:15 AM
Response to Original message |
73. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. |
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The DNC is not to blame for the FL and MI state parties leapfrogging. The DNC set the rules, and every state (including FL and MI) agreed to follow them. Automatic sanctions were put in place for leapfrogging, but the state parties decided to try to get their way through bullying and blackmail.
It completely sucks for FL and MI voters, but the DNC isn't to blame. The state parties are behaving shamefully, and I really don't appreciate the efforts to try to hold the rest of the country hostage because "we need their votes."
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thoughtcrime1984
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message |
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Did you miss the other 400 topics on this that spell out why this should not be? :eyes:
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blitzen
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Sat Feb-16-08 02:59 AM
Response to Original message |
85. oh, bullcrap! that's all i have to say. |
my3boyz
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Sat Feb-16-08 03:52 AM
Response to Original message |
96. No changes! I think Howard Dean is on his way out the door |
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after this election though. He made that deal with the candidates regarding Florida and Michigan. He scheduled too many states on one day for Super Tuesday. Then he moved the convention back to August. He never considered what would happen in the event of a close race. This primary season has been a mess..........
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Yossariant
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Sat Feb-16-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #96 |
99. I agree. Dean is done. |
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