The irony about the FL and MI mess

[dansolo]

If FL and MI had settled on being part of Super Tuesday, Hillary probably would have knocked Obama out right then and there. She would have won two more huge states (MI and FL would have been big victories for her), and she would have been the story all night. Instead, Obama managed to just about split with her, which was actually a major victory for him. The irony, of course, is that the FL and MI moves were designed to help Hillary, but instead they sidelined themselves, allowing Obama to get a big boost from Super Tuesday, and he has only increased his momentum since then.

[Birthmark]

1. And to double the irony

Obama will lose FL in November. A great move by the DNC. Nobody wins.

There's still time to recover the situation, though.

[DJ13]

3. "Obama will lose FL in November."

Sure he will.

McCain is such a likeable alternative.
:eyes:

[Birthmark]

6. Let's talk reality instead of rhetoric

The reality is that Bush (that likable and popular chap) took 14% of the Florida Democratic vote in 2004. The DNC alienating large numbers of FL Democrats is highly unlikely to diminish that number.

Oppose seating FL's delegates and say hello to President McCain.

[johnnydrama]

7. that was 2004

This is 2008. Citing what Bush did in the 2004 election has nothing to do with 2008.

[Birthmark]

23. Well, I can't compete with your dream world.

That's for sure. "Mr. Popularity" BUSH took FL in 2004, with 14% of Democrats voting for him. In the real world that means that McCain has a real chance to take FL in Nov...and that's withOUT the DNC screwing over the Democratic voters of FL. If the DNC persists, McCain will win FL easily.

I can't begin to guess what happens in Magic Obamaland. But I'll ask the first unicorn that I see.

[johnnydrama]

26. i know numbers are hard

Bush's popularity in mid 2004 was around 45-47%.

His popularity now is around 30%.

Why would McCain who is basically running as Bush's 3rd term do as well as Bush did when Bush is 15% less liked than 2004?

[Birthmark]

30. So...you have decided that McCain is Bush

That's very handy for you. Unfortunately, it's not true.

McCain has great crossover and independent appeal. The further he stays away from Bush, the better he'll do. Right now, he's trying to sucker the conservative Republicans to support him. Once he has the nomination, back to the middle for him. He'll be fully supported by the media.

Real numbers and real history in the real world support that interpretation. Again, what happens in the world where the sun shines out Obama's backside is a mystery to me. I don't expect that to change. Instead, I expect to hear the people of FL and MI verbally abused, along with subtle (or maybe not so subtle) implications of racism...as President McCain is sworn in.

But, hey, at least the DNC's high standards will have protected the Democratic Party's precious bodily fluids.

[Yossariant]

13. GOP turnout was even better than Dems in the primary. Record.

[Birthmark]

25. All the more reason for the DNC to relent. nt

[TexasObserver]

28. Jeb had to steal Florida TWICE to deliver it for Dubya.

And Crist is going to get it for McCain? I suppose it could happen, but probably not this time.

[Birthmark]

31. I have a question

What is the gravitational constant in your imaginary universe? Would I weigh more or less if I moved there?

I ask because only an alternate universe did that happen. In 2004, Bush took FL by nearly 400,000 votes, 52$-47%. Jeb wasn't really needed to steal anything.

[spag68]

8. Fla. votes

Before you blame the DNC, try to research what happened there. The Fla. party started all this crap, and were suckered by the rethugs, using a property tax question as bait. It really is ironic that their moves had exactly the wrong outcome. I've been in and out of Fla. since 1960 and the state still has many good ole boys who are as racist as any from Ala. or Georgia. Most of Fla. north of Orlando, might as well be Georgia or Miss. HRC might not carry Fla., but Obama has no chance there.

[Yossariant]

12. Voters don't do all that "research" for the DNC. "Count the votes!" "Don't count the votes!"

The voters aren't going any further. The Democrats look and sound like idiots.

The GOP is winning the White House because the DNC, again, has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[WilyWondr]

15. The ones asking for do overs or to changing the rules

in the middle of the primary do sound like idiots.

This was all decided last summer. That was when anyone that had a problem with this needed to contact their state representative.

This is no longer a story except for fanciful HRC supporters.

[Yossariant]

20. You're mistaken. We have already lost too many independents.

I post in a mixed forum. This is a winning issue for the GOP.

It is the monkeys who are saying "Count the votes!" "Don't count the votes!" "The Dems are idiots."

No matter what happens, it's too late for the Democrats.

Too many of the middle are now describing us as idiots, too.

It's a mess that cannot be resolved.

It will be a general election issue and the ordinary voter simply does not care about the intricacies of the DNC rules.

And McCain is no Huckabee.

[AZ Criminal JD]

14. The problem isn't Florida which Bush carried in 2000 and 2004

It is Michigan where the Democrats carried in those elections. The DNC and Dean that will cause this state to go Repug in 2008.

[Birthmark]

24. Will you console yourself under President McCain...

...with the knowledge that at least the "DNC didn't start it?" What's the goal here, stopping McCain or assuaging the DNCs fears?

[ThatPoetGuy]

2. "the FL and MI moves were designed to help Hillary"

Where'd you get that?

[tandem5]

4. I can't help but think that the republican controlled legislature in FL...

didn't do this on purpose with the intent of screwing with our (democrats) primaries. I'm not saying they could foresee the twists, but certainly screwing with a big state like Florida increases the potential for chaos (as has been witnessed there in the past!).

[AZ Criminal JD]

9. The problem with that theory is that Democrats control the Michigan legislature

And pushed through the early primary.

[tandem5]

17. wasn't really considering Michigan in my statement nt

[spag68]

11. Fla. rethugs

My daughter has lived in St. Pete for 8 years and Lauderdale before that. I was there all of Jan. and I follow Fla. politics pretty closely, so please believe me the rethugs had evil in mind when they put this up. It was a dem. rep. who made the first move on this about a year and a half ago.

[Torgo Johnson]

5. Obama would have probably won Michigan.

Detroit would have turned out huge for him.

[AZ Criminal JD]

10. The Obama campaign urged people to vote Uncommitted

People knew who they were voting for.

[jackson_dem]

18. And get smoked everywhere else in the state

[MonkeyFunk]

21. The exit polls in Michigan

showed Clinton 46, Obama 35 in a contest with all candidates on the ballot.

[johnnydrama]

27. huh?

Obama was on the ballot in Michigan?

[my3boyz]

33. NO! Hillbots lying as usual. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

36. Suck me

I'm one of the few people here who seems to actually KNOW who was on the ballot in MI.

I didn't say Obama was on the ballot in Michigan.

I was referring to exit polls which asked people who they'd vote for if all the candidates had been on the ballot.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. No

don't be silly.

I referred to EXIT POLLS which asked people who they'd vote for all the candidates were on the ballot.

[johnnydrama]

37. exit polls

Those were the exit polls of all the people who decided to brave the snow to vote uncommitted right?

[puerco-bellies]

16. Don't count Fl out.

The formally solid cuban vote is no longer a repug given. Younger Cuban Americans are more likely to vote Dem and I believe that either candidate can rally Democratic and Independent voters to reject 4 more years of the bush doctrine. Remember, Gore won that state at the start of this mess.

[UALRBSofL]

19. Mel Martinez rules south florida.

Charlie Christ is popular and will campaign hard for McCain.

[1awake]

22. At this point, it makes little difference...

We have screwed ourselves no matter which way you slice it. If we don't count Florida and Michigan, then in the people in those states will have had their voice taken away from them, regardless of how it happened. They will most likely sour on the election most likley costing us both in the GE. If we do count Florida and Michigan, then it will appear VERY bad for whoever wins because of them.. it will look like cheating whether it is or isn't. The DNC will look like a joke and will have any power it had ripped apart, and the Democratic party WILL fracture. Discuss it however you wish.. either way, its a lose-lose situation with very few positive outcomes possible.

[JeanGrey]

29. Just one second. There is no way we could know that Hillary

would have done that. Obama might have taken them as well.

[Iceburg]

32. She did win the vote handily, and they will be counted./nt

[suston96]

34. Not only will Michigan and Florida be lost in the GE but also many congresspeople there...

Trashing millions of Democratic voters in those states in the primaries will cost heavily in the GE as spurned Democrats will go right down the list - on the wrong side.