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Just Goes to Show Obama the FLIP-FLOPPER

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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:00 AM
Original message
Just Goes to Show Obama the FLIP-FLOPPER
I saw on another thread, how back in 2002 Obama denounced the Iraq War;
2 years later this is what he said in his own words on the Meet the Press:

Obama: In My Defense, That Lie Was Expedient

On "Meet the Press" this week, Barack Obama offered an explanation for his
shifting opinions (and his revisionist recollection of those opinions) on
the Iraq War, without displaying so much as a glimmer of comprehension that
what he said about himself was terribly incriminating.

Contrary to the Congressional newbie's untestable "I would've voted against
the war" assertions, Obama was singing a different tune a few years ago.

MR. RUSSERT: You were not in the Senate in October of 2002. You did give
a speech opposing the war. But Senator Clinton's campaign will say since
you've been a senator there's been no difference in your record. And other
critics will say that you've not been a leader against the war, and they
point to this:

In July of '04, Barack Obama, "I'm not privy to Senate
intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don't know," in terms of
how you would have voted on the war.

And then this: "There's not much of a difference between my position on Iraq
and George Bush's position at this stage."

That was July of '04. And this: "I think" there's "some room for
disagreement in that initial decision to vote for authorization of the war."
It doesn't seem that you are firmly wedded against the war, and that you
left some wiggle room that, if you had been in the Senate, you may have
voted for it.

SEN. OBAMA: Now, Tim, that first quote was made with an interview with a
guy named Tim Russert on MEET THE PRESS during the convention when we had a
nominee for the presidency and a vice president, both of whom had voted for
the war. And so it, it probably was the wrong time for me to be making a
strong case against our party's nominees' decisions when it came to Iraq.

The Senator has no observable interest in refuting the glaring inconsistency
or trying to nuance it away. He genuinely seems to believe that
illustrating the a-principled, purely political motivations behind his
fairweather war support somehow acquit him.

The extreme brevity of Obama's experience in national politics has, to date,
been more blessing than curse, as it's given him an opportunity to invent a
pro forma pre-2005 voting record that appeases current public sentiment,
then insist on its hypothetical authenticity and the deeply principled
beliefs behind it.

So now we're left to wonder - is Obama's eternal, unshakable, principled
objection to the war fictional? Or is it real, but apparently so flimsy
that he was willing to publicly disavow it while he was auditioning for a
transfer from Springfield to Washington in 2004? Logically, those two
options would seem to be mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive.

It can't be neither and it can't be both.

Either option involves not only opportunistic bloodlust, but deceit in the
course of electioneering.

Since Obama is once again stumping for a political promotion,
shouldn't we assume that during this period, his rhetoric is similarly
calculated and his principles similarly manufactured?
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes ... and what a good line to describe Obama:
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 06:09 AM by flordehinojos
"Since Obama is once again stumping for a political promotion,
shouldn't we assume that during this period, his rhetoric is similarly
calculated and his principles similarly manufactured? "

Not only assume it. But also assert it. And also Believe it!

rhetoric similarly calculated and his principles similarly manufactured" describes obama to a tee!
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Then Can We Also Assume That Clinton Was Ignorant
or sold her soul to look politically correct and is too stubborn to admit either?
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Clinton don't have a video
on You Tube. That's my point. He dredges up a 2002 video knowing damn well he just might lure some to "buy into" his crap.

One just has to play back his interview with Meet the Press. Got any ideas for an ad, Hillary! side by side, Obama screamin' and preachin' against the Iraq war 2002, and on split screen the Interview with Meet the Press, 2004. Just goes to show his followers aren't the only ones with a short attention span, he might just want to brush up on some memory courses.



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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. True. Of Course They Didn't Have You Tube When She
was a Republican.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. She was a repuke in 1964 and a DEMOCRAT in 1968. STONE HER! She was a REPUKE for 4 YEARS!!!!%$#@
:eyes: The lady is now 60 years old for crying out loud and has been a Democrat since 1968! sheesh!


Raised in a politically conservative household,<11> at age thirteen she helped canvass South Side Chicago following the very close 1960 U.S. presidential election, finding evidence of electoral fraud against Republican candidate Richard Nixon,<12> and volunteered for Republican candidate Barry Goldwater in the U.S. presidential election of 1964.<13> Her early political development was shaped most strongly by her energizing high school history teacher, who got her to read Goldwater's classic The Conscience of a Conservative<14> and who was, like her father, a fervent anti-communist, and by her Methodist youth minister, like her mother concerned with issues of social justice; with the minister she saw and met civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. in Chicago in 1962.<15><11>

College

In 1965, Rodham enrolled in Wellesley College, where she majored in political science.<16> She served as president of the Rockefeller Republican-oriented<17> Wellesley Young Republicans organization during her freshman year<18><19> and with them supported the elections of John Lindsay and Edward Brooke.<20> However, due to her evolving views regarding the American Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War, she stepped down from that position;<18> she characterized her own nature as that of "a mind conservative and a heart liberal."<21> Active in campus affairs, she sought to work for change within the system, rather than take then-popular radical actions against it.<22> In her junior year, Rodham was affected by the death of Martin Luther King, Jr.,<8> and became a supporter of the anti-war presidential nomination campaign of Democrat Eugene McCarthy.<23> Rodham organized a two-day student strike and worked with Wellesley's black students for moderate changes, such as recruiting more black students and faculty.<24> In early 1968 she was elected president of the Wellesley College Government Association and served through early 1969;<22><25> she was instrumental in keeping Wellesley from being embroiled by the student disruptions common to other colleges at the time.<22> A number of her fellow students thought at the time she might someday become the first woman President of the United States.<22> She attended the "Wellesley in Washington" summer program at the urging of Professor Alan Schechter, who assigned Rodham to intern at the House Republican Conference so she could better understand her changing political views.<24> Rodham was invited by Representative Charles Goodell, a moderate New York Republican, to help Governor Nelson Rockefeller’s late-entry campaign for the Republican nomination.<24> Rodham attended the 1968 Republican National Convention in Miami, where she decided to leave the Republican Party for good; she was upset over how Richard Nixon's campaign had portrayed Rockefeller and what Rodham perceived as the "veiled" racist messages of the convention.<24>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. One Can Assume Anything, What We KNOW Is That
Clinton was stupid enough to vote to give an idiot the power to whatever the f*** he wanted.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. You are completely
in the state of denial. This thread isn't about Hillary, it's about Obama, touting a video which clearly is a lie.

Assuming hell, go to Meet the Press website and listen for yourself. You will see how manipulative this guy really is. Obama is out for Obama. Sad to think with all the talk of hope and change, he has even managed to dupe his followers into believing something he just can't deliver.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I'm In Denial???
This thread isn't about Hillary??? Right!! :rofl:

BTW, Hillary is out for Hillary. Sad to think with all the talk of "experience" she has managed to dupe her followers into believing something she can't deliver LIKE WINNING THE PRIMARY.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh, Obama lies, that's ok
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 07:14 AM by CatnHat
I get it. Time to ignore the topic, and bash Clinton, is that all you have to offer. Typical of Obama followers, St. Obama can do no wrong; if his own followers won't or cannot demand an answer from him, then they are no better; accepting his lies and distortions while drooling over words. Yeah, blindsighted loyality is by far more important. Most people take words like "change" and "hope" seriously; not to be used in "catchy" little sound-bites. Obama has lost all creditability, to say the least.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. This Is What I Heard
I get it. Time to insist we stay on topic, and bash Obama, is that all you have to offer. Typical of Hillary followers, St. Hillary can do no wrong; if her own followers won't or cannot demand an answer from her, then they are no better; accepting her lies and distortions while drooling over words. Yeah, such integrity coming from Hillary. Most people take words like "experience" and "change" seriously; not to be used in "catchy" little sound-bites. Hillary has lost all creditability, to say the least.

Did I get it right? I hope you haven't missed Hillary talking about change? I think I caught it between her "blah blah blah experience" lines.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What is creditability?
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Don't you have nothing
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 07:40 AM by CatnHat
better to do besides spell-checking posts!
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Just Something I Heard lol nt
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Big difference
Obama followers put him up on a pedestal, insisting he the "anointed one". Hillary supporters take her at face value, good and bad. But if you insist on bashing Clinton every chance you get; then what does that say about your values? Not much.

If you must post, can't you come up with anything original already? You are vastly becoming irrelevant.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Irrelevant? Another Rovian Tactic?
You are practically quoting *. Show me any post that I put Obama on a pedestal? Bet you can't. And I have done my best to keep from bashing Hillary because I do not hate her. In fact, I kind of feel sorry for her. I just can't vote for her after selling out the country.

Now, tell me how you aren't an Obama basher. Your tactics would work far better on the "other" board than on DU.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. They are the left's
embarrassing version of bushbots. They excuse all of his screw ups and ignore anything they don't want to hear.

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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. Swiftboating doesn't wwork any more.
Call Karl, maybe he can come up with something else.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. It's in the video
and in text. Read it; listen to it. No one is swiftboating anyone. It's the truth, straight from Obama's mouth. Denial is bad for the soul; another inspirational thought you might want to ponder.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. ThisTime I Heard, We Must Believe Because
it is biblical. Denial will send you to hell. Am I wrong?
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. whose article is that?
Is there a reason you're not posting a link, or saying who wrote that?
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. The article is
from "Meet the Press". Just go Meet the Press website, and look up Obama Nov. 11 interview. It is there in text or video. The other video is on You Tube, posted on a thread on DU. Go to Cool Ad.
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Seeker30 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Most of these Obama Drama's don't know what Meet The Press is
They didnt show Meet The Press on Nickelodeon and they sure as hell dont show it on MTV.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
16. Aw, you poor thing. No matter how hard you try, you will never be able to get the way back
machine to put Obama in the Senate at the time of the vote and vote the way your girl did. Now, I know that doesn't seem fair to you...that your girl was standing on the senate floor pushing for war with some gusto, while Obama was standing in a crowded room talking about how dumb the idea of going to war was.

You can WOULDA, SHOULDA, COULDA til the cows come home. It won't change the historical record and only the cognitive dissonant are going to buy your crap here.

Enjoy your stay.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. No pipe dream here
I'll leave that up to the Obama crowd.
I have no intention in "wishing" to turn the clock back.

Let's get the Facts straight I know Obama supporters have a hard time following facts but here goes: 2002 against the war; 2004 for the war. The fact remains Obama flip flopped all over himself. That guy stutters and is totally confused. (Just watch the Meet the Press video, Nov. 11) He's for it, he's against it. Which one? How about next year, against it, for it. No matter what kind of spin you try to put on it, your guy comes up a looser. What don't you get.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. You dare use slimy disgusting swiftboating republican tactics on a democratic candidate
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 08:32 AM by JTFrog
on a democratic website and try to convince me that I'm the one spinning?

Obama has NEVER been "for" war in Iraq. Post direct quotes with links to your sources or lose any shred of credibility you think you have left here. Being "unsure" how one would have voted is an honest reply. No one has a WAY BACK machine so we'll never really know will we. So again, since you want to "get the facts straight", find some facts and let's do just that.

If you can't find direct quotes, do try to avoid repeating the republican tactic of throwing out random quotes and reinterpreting them to suit your needs. You aren't making a very good case for yourself and at this point your credibility is zero as you refuse to deal in facts and prefer to re-interpret words to justify your support of a warhawk. That's called cognitive dissonance and as stated above, you may get some positive feedback from other cognitive dissonants here at DU, but beyond that, your arguments are pathetic.

The facts as those of us in the real world know them are; 1)Your girl pushed for war and voted for the IWR, while 2)Obama was telling people the war was a really dumb idea. 3)Obama has never made a statement claiming to be in favor of war with Iraq.

I post the following picture in anticipation of your reply:




*edit grammer

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I Vote In Pittsburgh Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Agreed
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 08:38 AM by I Vote In Pittsburgh
It's hilarious. No quotes, no citations, and dubious interpretations. So many supporters of Hillary have lost all credibility.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. How many times do I have to post it
ok, again, Got the 2002 video on the DU board; Look for Cool Ad.

Go to Meet the Press website, ain't that hard to find. On the right hand side of the Meet the Press webiste, you will see Obama: Nov. 11 interview, Click on. You have a choice of video or text.

If you still can't figure it out, the quotes are in the orginal post. The video is on Meet the Press website. Got it. I know how you love to hear things repeated. So here it is again:

ok, again, Got the 2002 video on the DU board; Look for Cool Ad.

Go to Meet the Press website, ain't that hard to find. On the right hand side of the Meet the Press webiste, you will see Obama: Nov. 11 interview, Click on. You have a choice of video or text.

If you still can't figure it out, the quotes are in the orginal post. The video is on Meet the Press website. Got it. I know how you love to hear things repeated. And again:
ok, again, Got the 2002 video on the DU board; Look for Cool Ad.

Go to Meet the Press website, ain't that hard to find. On the right hand side of the Meet the Press webiste, you will see Obama: Nov. 11 interview, Click on. You have a choice of video or text.

If you still can't figure it out, the quotes are in the orginal post. The video is on Meet the Press website. Got it. I know how you love to hear things repeated.

Now if you still don't get it, let me know and I'll be happy to post the information again.


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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
22. What he said was perfectly reasonable
Once the war has started no one would have voted for immediate withdrawal.

And no one would have embarrassed Kerry on the War either.

Neither of these facts negates his opposition to the War in 2002, when it was least politically expedient, or his support for Kerry and Kerry's predicament in July 2004, when opposition to the War was growing and it would have been politically expedient to ho on hte bandwagon. And of course he had no access to intel in 2004.

Frankly, he took a less politically expedient stance both in October 2002 and again in mid to late 2004.

Hillary's vote was pure political opportunism.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
24. I will repost this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN30M6StFfk

This is him with Candy Crowley where he admits that he said one time he was not sure what he had done if he was in the Senate.

Here is a rough transcript:

“The only time when I said I’m not sure what I would do if I were in the Senate was right before the democratic convention when we had two nominees that obviously I did not want to be criticizing right before they got up and received the nomination”


As he's stammering out this answer it's sad to watch someone so politically savvy that he will make an excuse on such an important matter. AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FOOLED!

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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Fooled by what?
Honesty?

That shit really scares Hillbots doesn't it?
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. That he is so pristine, he is so anti war, he is a new kind of politics.
that's where you all have been fooled.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. You're really looking very stupid......
read the OP. It's not spin it's fact.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. At least in my case I only look the part. n/t
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
28. This is an invalid summary of "what he said." Cite your source...not a DU thread
that purportedly paraphrases what someone said on a TV show.

This is blatantly false. I have seen every Obama appearance on Meet the Press.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Nothing before or after what he said negates the fact, that he admits to, which is
the he said he did not know how he would vote if he were in the Senate and privy to the information.

And since then he has voted the exact same way as Hillary Clinton regarding the war in Iraq.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Straight from Meet the Press
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 09:35 AM by CatnHat
This is just part the actual interview:
paraphasing nothing.
Go to the website Obama: Nov. 11 interview.
Read it yourself, there's alot more.

MR. RUSSERT: You were not in the Senate in October of 2002. You did give
a speech opposing the war. But Senator Clinton's campaign will say since
you've been a senator there's been no difference in your record. And other
critics will say that you've not been a leader against the war, and they
point to this:

In July of '04, Barack Obama, "I'm not privy to Senate
intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don't know," in terms of
how you would have voted on the war.

And then this: "There's not much of a difference between my position on Iraq
and George Bush's position at this stage."

That was July of '04. And this: "I think" there's "some room for
disagreement in that initial decision to vote for authorization of the war."
It doesn't seem that you are firmly wedded against the war, and that you
left some wiggle room that, if you had been in the Senate, you may have
voted for it.

SEN. OBAMA: Now, Tim, that first quote was made with an interview with a
guy named Tim Russert on MEET THE PRESS during the convention when we had a
nominee for the presidency and a vice president, both of whom had voted for
the war. And so it, it probably was the wrong time for me to be making a
strong case against our party's nominees' decisions when it came to Iraq.

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sueragingroz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. And Bill is called a racist for calling THIS a fairy tale....
who is doing the swift boating?
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. This is from a right-wing blog, who links to Malkin, Drudge, and the
like.

Since you didn't provide the link to the article, I'll post it for you, so that others can determine the weight to give this.

http://suitablyflip.blogs.com/suitably_flip/democrats/index.html
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Good god....
READ. Try to understand plain english, would ya?
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
34. "the wrong time for me"
Very telling. This Obama Character shifts like the wind.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. Se, he's a big fat liar....nice.
SEN. OBAMA: Now, Tim, that first quote was made with an interview with a
guy named Tim Russert on MEET THE PRESS during the convention when we had a
nominee for the presidency and a vice president, both of whom had voted for
the war. And so it, it probably was the wrong time for me to be making a
strong case against our party's nominees' decisions when it came to Iraq.
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
38. Everyone knows he was trying to cover for the Dems (like Kerry, Clinton etc) who voted for the war
Grow up
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. yah exactly
Like he was going to say in 2004 that Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards made a huge stupid mistake by voting for the war.

Geez, let's just bury our Presidential candidates, even though saying it would have been true.

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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. Hi CatnHat - this sort of post (and the motive) is terribly transparent -
Edited on Sat Feb-16-08 04:13 PM by sparosnare
if you think posting it will get anyone here to change their minds, your efforts have been wasted. :hi:
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. I did not post this
for the benefit of the Obama followers. There are many who come to the DU and do not post. Yes, the post is transparent-truth should be.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-16-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. You do not speak the truth. n/t
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