Hillary: "Well, I want to have universal health care coverage by the end of my second term."

[Renew Deal]

On Health Care: Universal health care coverage by the end of my second term
Q: Many experts project that it would cost between $90 billion and $120 billion to actually achieve universal health care for everyone in America. Is comprehensive reform achievable financially?
A: We already spend more money than anybody else in the world, by about $800 billion, and we have 47 million uninsured. We're also at a competitive disadvantage because other countries either provide health care or don't, and our companies are trying to be competing in a global economy. So I want to figure out how we provide universal health care without putting billions more into the system. Let's get prescription drug prices down by negotiating with the drug companies, for example. I am going around the country, and I'm asking people's advice, then I'm going to be proposing a specific plan. You know, President Kennedy said in his inauguration that he wanted to have a man on the moon by the end of the decade. Well, I want to have universal health care coverage by the end of my second term.

Source: 2007 AFSCME Democratic primary debate in Carson City Nevada Feb 21, 2007
http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_Dem_AFSCME_NV_Hillary_Clinton.htm

And from Krugman:
Hillary Clinton, however, has been evasive. She conveys the impression that there's not much difference between her policy positions and those of the other candidates ? but she's offered few specifics. In particular, unlike Mr. Edwards or Mr. Obama, she hasn't announced a specific universal care plan, or explicitly committed herself to paying for health reform by letting some of the Bush tax cuts expire.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/08/krugmans_stir.php

We cannot wait another 8-9 years for health care reform.

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. Obama doesn't want universal health care at all.

At least Clinton is trying.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Sure he does. He just doesn't want mandated universal health care.

[Iris]

11. oh good. So instead of waiting 7 or 8 more years, we can wait forever.

I just hope no one you cares about contracts a disease while uninsured because it's not pretty to watch someone beg to get treatment because they don't have insurance.

[Occam Bandage]

22. Under Obama's and Clinton's plans, health care is equally accessible and affordable.

Clinton simply adds a pack of unenforceable mandates and claims it's universal.

[MNDemNY]

32. Allowing the young and healthy to opt out, is an actuarial nightmare.

Anyone who understands how insurance works knows this. The risk must be spread. or it will not work. Single payer is the best option, but that will not happen. Mandates are necessary.

[Occam Bandage]

39. Mandating the self-employed, small-business employees, and private contractors

is impossible...and those are the groups most likely to be uninsured. There's a reason she's avoided explaining her enforcement mechanism--she knows there isn't one that will work.

[MNDemNY]

42. Nonsense.

[Occam Bandage]

47. Really? Provide mechanism of enforcement. I'll give three cases, all based off people I know.

Mike, 29, is a painter and roofer. He's part of an informal crew, and they're always paid in cash--that way they don't have to pay taxes. He isn't insured, because he doesn't think he needs it.

Jane, 41, owns a small candy store. Her store, amusingly, does not have an "owner;" she files her taxes as a "candy clerk," as do each of her employees. She has for decades.

Bob, 25, is a freelance writer and occasional stock trader. He's uninsured, like Mike, because he doesn't think he needs it.

So, how do you enforce the mandate for these people?

[MNDemNY]

48. The same way you enforce other Gov mandates,

such as taxes and the like. By the way, if these folks you know, get sick or injured, who pays for their care?

[Occam Bandage]

50. Oh, really? With an enormous new bureaucracy, larger than the IRS? If your plan is to

add it as a line in taxes, and then check the tax return of every single American, keep in mind that this will require, no shit, checking up on the validity, extent of coverage, and payment schedule of 300 million people, since you'd of course have to check dependents' coverage (and since I assume this bureaucracy would also be responsible for checking the coverage of the unemployed and retired). Already we do not have close to universal taxation in this country. Twenty-eight percent of the work force in America is paid in cash; their returns are on the honor system. Their underreporting costs the government--I am not making this up--$135 to $155 billion per year. Either your mandate will be toothless against them, or it will require a bureaucracy larger than any that has ever been established.

Sure, it's easy to enforce a mandate on people employed by large businesses. 99% of such people fully report income. But only 96% report third-party information, such as interest, only 68% of assets and inventory are reported, and only 20% of income in the cash economy is reported. What makes you think that health insurance reporting will be any better?

[CTLawGuy]

59. the risk CAN'T be spread

under a market system, because there are ten billion different risk pools. Not everyone is paying into the same pot. I can imagine that under "mandates" all the healthy will glob into a few very cheap plans.

[MNDemNY]

27. Damn, you must be dizzy.

[Occam Bandage]

34. I apologize for understanding policy beyond bumper-sticker phrases. I know that's a GDP faux pas.

[MNDemNY]

36. Obviously, you do not.

To allow the young and healthy to opt out, only to enroll when the get sick, is hardly a good option, if you understand that the point of insurance is to spread the risk. You are as naive as you half baked candidate.

[Occam Bandage]

41. No, I understand that we do not live in Fantasy Wonkville, in which you

can simply mandate something and watch as it actually happens.

[Renew Deal]

7. Hillary wants universal health insurance, not care.

She figures that she can pass it if she pays off her friends. This is at the expense of americans. She has already stated that she wants to "go after their wages."

[burythehatchet]

54. There is no more important distinction than that. n/t

[Bread and Circus]

9. You don't understand the first thing about health care finance or either

one of their plans.

Oh, and welcome to ignore. Thanks for reminding me to put you on the long list of people who say "Obama's got no plans" but never actually take the time to go read them.

[Evergreen Emerald]

16. Good. That means I do not have to read your responses

that are nonsensical. Of course Clinton's plan is better than Obamas--the unbiased experts agree.

[tyne]

17. Sure he does

and he has a comprehensive and realistic way to achieve it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. you have been listening to his speeches instead of the facts.

He will not cover everyone. The experts agree that without universal coverage the hole in the plan is fatal to the plan.

[WilyWondr]

45. and her plan is fatal

because the people do not buy their own health insurance now is because of the cost.

If I tell you that you need to buy health insurance does that help you pay for it? No.


I trust Obama more than Clinton to take on the insurance companies. She had her chance at health care reform and she failed miserably.

Obama may not do any better, but he certainly cannot do any worse.

Look at how the Mass plan of requiring people to buy health insurance is working out.

[Evergreen Emerald]

49. No. That is simply not true. She, like Obama plans to lower the

costs, provide relief to those who cannot afford it. YOu have been buying into the falicy that Obama is attempting to create.

She is going to make it affordable and provide coverage to those who cannot on a sliding scale.

It is amazing to me that people fall for the silly argument that she is going to put you in jail if you can't afford to buy it and make you buy something you cannot afford. What a load of crap.

Read her plan! Look at the experts. Don't just believe the propaganda.

[Occam Bandage]

52. I agree. Her plan is, like Obama's, excellent. Her flawed notion of mandates

will certainly be discarded in Congress, and we'll move on.

[CTLawGuy]

57. that's bullshit and you know it

Hillary's plan treats the 44 million uninsured as if they are freeloaders trying to scam free health care from the taxpayer. Therefore, the mandate. I guess Hillary has never seen Sicko and seen what happens when you don't have insurance.

Obama's plan treats them as if they want health care, but can't get it or can't afford it. A mandate would just be cruel.

His conception is more correct.

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. you crack me up. The plan, nearly identical in its procedures

to gain money for healthcare. Yet, Obama's is GREAT and Clinton's is EVIL.

Snowed you are. So deep in snow.

[CTLawGuy]

61. its nearly identical except for mandates

which Hillary says is the lynchpin of "universal health care."

[Evergreen Emerald]

63. Obama has mandates too. His is more expensive and gives less coverage

Hers is the right plan. But, you focus on "how we gonna pay for it? Those questions are answered, and people will be able to afford it.

How is Obama going to enforce mandates?

[CTLawGuy]

65. no he has no mandates

(but for mandates for children). Hillary criticizes him for "not having universal health care" becuae he doesn't have mandates.

[tekisui]

2. How very unambitious and presumptive.

[Emit]

6. My first thought, too. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

3. Come on now. She's since come around on that. This is lame.

[Renew Deal]

10. Has she? Prove it.

Find a link...

[Occam Bandage]

23. This was all before she announced her health-care proposal.

[ananda]

4. Ouch

We need it yesterday.. it's URGENT!

[crispini]

8. This is a pretty dumb attack.

I saw Bill speak yesterday, and he specifically said the health care plan would be paid for by efficiencies and by letting the Bush tax cuts expire. She has offered many specifics on her website. Her plan is more viable than Obama's because she includes everyone in the insurance pool, unlike Obama's where he allows an opt-in. All kinds of people won't opt-in.

[Renew Deal]

12. Her website doesn't say she'll get it done in her first term.

Prove me wrong.

[crispini]

14. Does Obama's say he'll get it done in his first term?

Just wondering

[Renew Deal]

18. I'm not sure if his website does, but he does.

Obama has said specifically that he'll "get it done in his first term."

[rodeodance]

21. YOUR OP is year old--If you had keep up to date you have not made a fool of yourself by

putting that post up.

[Renew Deal]

24. Prove it.

I want someone to prove me wrong. Has she said she'll get it done in her first term? It should be easy to find the info, if it exists.

[rodeodance]

44. A responsible Obamacamper would not post such an outdated OP.

24. Prove it.

I want someone to prove me wrong. Has she said she'll get it done in her first term? It should be easy to find the info, if it exists.

[rodeodance]

15. The post is a year old. Hillary's position has evolved after listening to the people in small

groups across the land.

OP knows better but being a typical Hillary hate, she can't help herself.

[Renew Deal]

19. Prove it.

I've searched all over for a change in her position and I listen to her closely. She doesn't put a time frame on her plan.

[rodeodance]

25. Find her and Bill's and Chelsey's speechs, You are one posting out-dated material.

[Renew Deal]

26. I'm the only one posting material.

Prove me wrong. I'd be happy if you did.

[rodeodance]

30. Nevada Feb 21, 2007---get some new material-

Source:

2007 AFSCME Democratic primary debate in Carson City Nevada Feb 21, 2007
http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_Dem_AFSCME_NV_H...

[Renew Deal]

33. So do you have anything newer saying that she will get it done her first term?

That's all you need to do. Prove that she'll get it done her first term (or said something like that).

[rodeodance]

38. A responsible Obamacamper would not post such a misleading OP without updating

the material.

chers7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Feb-16-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. So do you have anything newer saying that she will get it done her first term?

That's all you need to do. Prove that she'll get it done her first term (or said something like that)

[Renew Deal]

55. Just admit it, Hillary will not get health care done in her first term.

You support her and you don't even know what she stands for. You've lost all credibility.

BTW, Krugman's article is from SEPTEMBER! That's not that long ago.

[Occam Bandage]

29. RD, I'm with you in this thread. But please don't delude yourself into thinking

that Hillary came to her current position by listening to small groups of people. Democrats want universal single-payer. I somehow doubt your average Hillary supporter said, "You know, Senator, what I really want is tax breaks for small-business employers who provide health insurance, expansion of subsidies, and a mandate for private health-insurance coverage."

[rodeodance]

35. I am not satisfied with either candidates position for the reasons you state. OP is dileberating

dissing Hillary on this and she knows it.

And I do believe that Hillary being on these listening tours has benefited her.

[Renew Deal]

56. I'm not dissing he at all.

It's her position. If you don't like it, find another candidate.

[ShortnFiery]

13. OMG! Such arrogance and sense of entitlement oozing from HRC's rhetoric is *disgusting*.

The Clintons have been living in the "spoiled and privileged" world too damn long. They need to mercifully return to New York State and eat some humble pie. Maybe then, HRC can emerge as a better candidate, and person, with a sorely needed *reality check.*

[stray cat]

20. No health care if its a single term?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

28. I want a clearer outlook by the time I get my

second frontal lobotomy. Look what it did for Jack Nicholson in the Cuckoos Nest.... I jest of course.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. Hillary'plan has built into it the infrastructure for easy $0 cost transition to UVH single payer

One Smart Lady

A far Superior plan then Obama's leave millions without any and on top of that his plan will monetarily fine the poor people who don't get it....nice guy eh?

[crispini]

40. Hillary pledges to finish the job in her first term.

Here ya go:

She pledged to build a "consensus" with health care providers, businesses, regular people and the insurance industry - all groups she alienated in her closed-door plotting 14 years ago - to finish the job in her first presidential term.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/09/18/2007-09-18_hillary_clinton_offers_new_health_care_p.html

See! Two can play at the quote game.

[crispini]

46. What, no response?

Fine, I'll start my own OP. Two can play at this game, and I still have three threads to go.

[Cameron27]

53. Thanks for finding that.

[Renew Deal]

58. She's not saying that.

The Daily news is. The quote I posted came from her. I give you credit though. That's the first thing I've seen since her "second term" remark.

[WYObama]

43. Don't worry sister.

God-willing, you won't get a first term. Or even a shot at a first term.

[HeraldSquare212]

51. I guess 'solutions' take a long, long time.

[Major Hogwash]

62. By the end of her 2nd term as a SENATOR! And that's what will happen, Senator Clinton.

While you serve out your 2nd term as a Senator, Obama and the rest of Congress will be working to implememt a healthcare plan that isn't facist in nature - forcing Americans to pay for it or have their wages garnished!

[Vinca]

64. The tens of millions without health CARE can't wait

until Hill's second term for health INSURANCE. I can hear the 2nd term campaign ads already. "If you give me a second term, I promise . . ." Neither candidate has a decent plan. Call Kucinich.