Clinton Wants Universal Health INSURANCE. She Should Stop Lying And Admit That

[KittyWampus]

there's a huge difference between Universal Health Care and Universal Health Insurance.

And Clinton is blurring the line, on purpose.

Universal Health Care= care to all who need it.
Universal Health Insurance= individuals with Insurance POLICIES which may not cover their needs, may raise rates, may deny care, may raise co-pays.

Now, if we were talking Universal Health CARE, I'd be very happy with Mandates and having my wages garnished.

However, we are not.

Therefore, since both Clinton and Obama are leaving private health insurance corporations intact, the FIRST LOGICAL STEP should be to regulate those insurance companies and control costs.

Regulate them to within an inch of their lives so we can then go on to drown them in the bathtub later.

[TalkAgain]

1. Right on!

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. what a bunch of bullshit.

Why are you just mimicking the talking points that will do in National healthcare? Instead read the fucking thing.

[KittyWampus]

6. leaving health insurance corporations intact without castrating them first, is unfeasible.

they have been fucking us over for decades. They're not going to stop now. Especially once tax-payer funds start getting channeled into their greedy paws.

[Whisp]

17. what Clinton and Obama are saying is Universal Health Care

IS NOT.
Canada has universal health care, and there are no insurance premiums to insurance companies. Our taxes are the 'premiums'.

I so wish the both of them would not mispresent it in such a way.

[JackORoses]

34. you haven't read it or you would know the difference between insurance and healthcare

ask the people who can't get there insurance to pay up.

Hillary's plan is totally dependent on the Insurance Corporations voluntarily dropping their rates just because they have been given a permanent customer base.

Plus these 3rd party companies will be making a government mandated Profit.

[fenriswolf]

3. as soon as this country can say

we have "universal health care/insurance" the debate is over and singlepayer is off the market for a very long long time.

we cannot go down that road, we cannot mandate it and especially not for a "for profit" health care system.

[Donnachaidh]

15. and Obama isn't kicking the insurance companies out

Jeez -- there's is very LITTLE difference between Clinton and Obama's program. They BOTH want to include the very corps that are destroying health care in this country.

Inviting the insurance and HMO'S into the discussion effectively *f*cks* the consumer. And Obama wants to do just THAT.

[fenriswolf]

18. right but

Obama is not mandating it. I admit his program is but a band aid but it's not mandate and it leave room open for more.

don't get me wrong, I don't drink the cool aid. I just figure where Hillary is showing us what we will get Obama is taking a centrist position for the GE.

I believe with Hillary what we see is what we get because of her many years indebted to her contributers and backers force her to be a centrist.

[bunnies]

4. Yep.

No wonder the insurance companies are "on board". They'll make obscene amounts of money over what they already do.

[dflprincess]

47. The first clue that something is very wrong with both Clinton's and Obama's plans is that

the insurance companies aren't screaming bloody murder over them.

[Bread and Circus]

5. The only person (Conyers) who has a serious UNIVERSAL plan on the table endorses Obama

and the plan is HR676.

go to www.pnhp.org for details.

[fenriswolf]

7. and its DK approved hehe.

[KittyWampus]

8. the only benefit to Obama's plan, it focuses on regulating the life out of insurance co's

IMO

[bunnies]

9. I support HR676. I wish all the lawmakers would. nt

[Bread and Circus]

40. So do I. As a physician, I can tell you for the most part Medicare works..

it needs some fine tuning but it works and seniors like it.

[Omega3]

10. this is a great post, and so true! of course the same thing can be said for BHO's plan so not sure

why you're flamming at HRC and not BHO AS WELL.

but the point is well taken regarding for profit private ins. co's being in charge still, we'll get nowhere without single-payer non-profit insurance.

[truedelphi]

11. Hillary's Plan is Socialized Monies for the Ruling Classes

Froma Harrup recently had a column in which she discusses Saint Joesph's Hospital in Rhode Island.

It has requested its HMO, United HealthCare, for a 10% increase in payments. But the requests are always refused.

Meanwhile the head of the HMO makes a salary that is MORE than the combined salaries of the 2200 doctors, nurses, aides, jantiors and others at the hospital.

Something has to stop this!

Sadly that something probably will not be either of the two Corporatists that remain our only option for Democratic Presidential candidate.

[Omega3]

12. someone gets it

:yourock:


:kick:

[truedelphi]

16. Aw Shucks.... Thank You! n/t

[OzarkDem]

21. Why are you ignoring the choice of government insurance plans?

Why do Obama supporters continue to lie about Clinton's plan and make it appear private insurance will be the only choice?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't actually read the details of Clinton's health plan. It includes a choice between public (government) insurance and private insurance.

Given that, now what is your argument?

[truedelphi]

26. The problem is that she still insists on having

Bones (ie my hard earned cash) thrown to the insurance executives.

She has even said so. And she is always saying Lobbyists are people too.

BTW no candidate has ever said that someone can't have private insurance. A lot of people for instance supplement their Medicare insurance.

[OzarkDem]

29. You are wrong on that

You have a choice to purchase a public health insurance plan like Medicare. No one will force you to buy from a private insurance company.

If you still think that's the case, you'll need to prove it.

[truedelphi]

31. Look my mind is made up - I'm not for Hillary but if you have the URL

And want to share it - please do so. I'll then read it.

I see Hillary as:
NAFTA
looking the other way about banking regulation
IWR
Being buddies with Rupert Murdoch

Etc.

[OzarkDem]

32. Here's the link

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx

Choose not to support her if you wish, but don't base it on incorrect information about her health care reform plan.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Hit the nail on the head!

Both Clinton and Obama's plans would keep the insurance companies intact. Basically, unless they are severely restricted, the plans would do nothing except enrich the insurance companies by forcing us to get plans. Right now, it would cost me over a fourth of my salary to get a plan with a $5000 deduction-and it would only be for major hospital stays. I've never been hospitalized in my life, and won't go to one unless I was brought there unconscious. What I fear is that I will be forced to pay out hard earned money for health care I would never use. And have the kind of care I use (holistic, alternative) denied coverage.

At least with single payer health CARE I could be assured that basic checkups, etc, would be covered.

[Donnachaidh]

14. and SO DOES BARACK!

So why do his followers always play these cheapass spin games? It's as if ROVE wrote their handbook.

:puke:

[dkf]

20. All our candidates are misguided on this issue.

It is our responsibility to put them on the right track.

[OzarkDem]

22. Both candidates offer a choice

Private insurance companies will have to compete w/ government plans similar to Medicare. they will also face stronger regulations regarding pre-existing conditions and offering full coverage. That will be difficult for them to do.

[OzarkDem]

19. Her plan: You can also choose government insurance

The lies being spread by Obama supporters that Clinton's plan requires everyone to buy private health insurance is pathetic.

Truth:

1. Everyone will not be required to buy their own individual health insurance plan. Employers will still cover most people and will be given incentives to do so.

2. Both employers and individuals can choose between private and public insurance (like Medicare).

[Omega3]

23. not that I don't believe you but do you have a link, I think this is an important difference

[OzarkDem]

27. For the hundredth time, I'm posting the link. Please read, folks

..."In addition to a broad array of private options that Americans can choose from, they will be offered the choice of a public plan option similar to Medicare."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/summary.aspx

[jackson_dem]

24. cryingshame why don't you call Obama out on his even bigger lie on this issue?

[VotesForWomen]

39. word. and "o's against the war" too, don't you know. hill supports it. sheesh. nt

[ErnestoG]

49. Yup. She voted for it. He didn't.

[ErnestoG]

48. what "bigger lie"?

[Armstead]

25. You explained it well

[OzarkDem]

28. Wrong, no one is required to buy private insurance

they are required to buy insurance and given a choice between private plans and a public plan similar to Medicare.

IOW, private insurance companies will be forced to compete w/ government insurance, which is inherently cheaper and more cost efficient to offer.

[Cameron27]

30. Thank you

no one seems to be responding to you, but you're right.

[OzarkDem]

33. Its really sad Obama supporters keep these myths going

By dishonestly killing the chance for real reform, they're only hurting themselves.

[Armstead]

37. Mandates weill kill the chances for real reform

The Repugs and private insurers will jump on the mandates and whip up a frenzy against reform.

If you want to move towards a more universal form of coverage, don't start with the hardest sell first.

It isn't rocket science.

[truedelphi]

35. OZARK DEM,my taxes already should be paying for the goddamn health insurance

Taxed like other middle income Americans to the breaking point
I cannot afford health insurance.

Living in California, like many here, I don't have a mortgage deduction. Have to work very hard just for an overpriced rental.

You are in the Ozarks (I have friends there and it is lovely) But you have the possibility of owning a home someday if you already don't already do so.

Until someone comes along and makes up a real effort at getting households like mine to the level of sustainable taxes that my parents had in the fifties, then I don't know what to think. Part of my parents' affluence was that my father paid probably 8% of his income as income taxes.

Now my dad's four thousand dollar a year income adjusted up to inflation would have to be $ 40,000 in many places, and at least $ 54,000 in California.

But that inflationary amount of income is taxed at an inflationary rate that takes away every discretionary dollar that exists. We already have to decide if we will pay our utilities or eat some months.

And we make "too much" to be granted any breaks from someone like Hillary.

I think that Obama is more open to hearing about the needs of the middle income earner. But more than likely, with Kucinich and Edwards gone now, the middle income person is screwn.

For good.

[Armstead]

36. Keep it optional initially -- That will allow for further reforms

Take out the political poison, let it work on an optional basis.

Short of the Democrats unifying around a true campaign to initiate real Universal Healthcare, starting on an optional basis is the only way to sell reforms politically.

[VotesForWomen]

38. as does obama. why aren't you criticising him? nt

[LWolf]

41. I'd rather drown them now. HR 676. n/t

[AZBlue]

42. Fantastic post!

K&R

[Ravy]

43. Generally, I agree with you.

I think that regulations will take place on the insurance industry, but what will really turn the corner is when some good non-profit insurance companies come to the scene. That (and the regulations) are what may eventually lead to universal health care, from what you correctly term universal health insurance.

[Moh96]

44. I agree 100% universal health care is what Canada and Europe is doing

Yeah lets put more money in health insurance corporations pockets by mandating insurance on every one
WOW is that the answer?

[TexasObserver]

45. Hillary wants Mandatory Insurance so she garnish your wages to pay her masters their cut.

She's an insurance industry tool.

[ErnestoG]

46. Good point. I'm surprised that's gotten a pass for so long.

[TexasObserver]

50. We need Universal Health Care, NOT Universally Mandated Insurance

Thank God we never let them privatize Social Security. Can you imagine what that would be like if the insurance industry ran it?

Have you ever seen what Americans think about their health insurance carriers or HMOs? They are distrusted by the vast majority of those who already have such coverage.

[boppers]

51. Under Both Hillary and Obama's plans...

How does a migrant worker from guatemala get covered if he was being paid under the table?

[leftstreet]

52. k&r