Who would you rather your daughter grow up to be like, if you were running for President?

[CorpGovActivist]

Personally, I'd rather raise a daughter who could - and would - have the fortitude to disagree with me, publicly, on policy issues.

Thanks for registering your opinion.

- Dave

[LaurenG]

1. It would have to be Cate

She is a gentle and powerful female.

[Hepburn]

3. Totally agree....

...while there is nothing wrong with Chelsea Clinton, IMO, Cate Edwards is an absolutely amazining person. I would be thrilled to have a daughter like her.

[CorpGovActivist]

13. Cate gets my vote, no contest; she honors and respects her upbringing by speaking her mind...

... with passion and respect, even when she disagrees with her dad on policy issues like gay marriage.

- Dave

[dcindian]

2. I will take my two daughters just as they are.

I would never wish for anyone in my family to be someone else. Ever.

[CorpGovActivist]

12. Well said. Which do you think they're most likely to relate to, though?

[Maddy McCall]

4. The war of the daughters, created by a DU poster.

I've seen it all here, but this one is especially funny.

[CorpGovActivist]

5. Ms. Clinton and Ms. Edwards both have public speeches to benchmark now...

... and I think it is fair to evaluate their respective statements and the manner in which they conduct themselves as surrogates as reflections upon the candidates.

It's easier to ridicule than to posit an actual critique, I know.

- Dave

[Eurobabe]

6. Both girls are very poised and intelligent

But Cate Edwards would get my vote.

[CorpGovActivist]

8. Cate gets mine, no contest. I think Chelsea is really showing herself on the trail...

... and really showing a lot about how she was raised, too.

- Dave

[hisownpetard]

7. This is just wrong, on many levels.

I know you didn't do it to be mean, but children should not be compared.
Just ain't right!:shrug:

[CorpGovActivist]

10. They're adults, and campaign surrogates.

It's very different than when Chelsea was a minor in the White House.

Having chosen to enter the fray, she's fair game for criticism now.

- Dave

[KoKo]

166. Agree....both are fine young women and to do a poll trying to make a difference

is really snarky. Trying to take advantage of popularity of their parents.

:-( Shame on you!

[CorpGovActivist]

167. Chelsea drew the distinction and the difference this week...

... by her snot-nosed answers.

- Dave

[wellstone dem]

9. As I've told my own daughter

it would be ok if you'd disagree with me a little less.

:-)

[CorpGovActivist]

11. I'd love to hear the stock reply you get.

:rofl:

[Support the ACLU]

14. Why not Amy Carter?

[CorpGovActivist]

16. Um. Confined to candidates who ran in 2008, with prominent adult children as surrogates.

Same. Like. Different. Unlike.

Kindergarten.

[Jane Austin]

15. Michelle Obama.

Definitely!

[CorpGovActivist]

24. She's the candidate's spouse, but yeah - I think her parents deserve to be proud!

[Jane Austin]

25. I read the question as "Who would you want your daughter to grow up like!"

She would be my choice if that were the question.

Oops.

[CorpGovActivist]

27. LIKE, LIKE

[rug]

17. ?

[CorpGovActivist]

33. ??

[rug]

49. Tell me how your daughter turns out.

[CorpGovActivist]

60. Capable of articulating her own viewpoint, and capable of laying out ...

... a cogent, well-conceived critique of a position of mine with which she disagrees.

That much, I can assure you.

In that regard, she will be more like Cate than Chelsea.

- Dave

[rug]

63. Then I guess you're clairvoyant.

[CorpGovActivist]

67. No, I have a pretty good roadmap for how to raise individualistic...

... critical thinkers. And my sister could run circles around many of the weak-minded "debaters" around here.

- Dave

[rug]

72. Living humans are hard to keep on a roadmap.

[CorpGovActivist]

75. But children, raised well and with love, have a better than decent shot ...

... at sticking to the key parts of it.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

18. I'd rather my daughters both be themselves than be in the mold of a daughter in a campaign.

[CorpGovActivist]

19. Well said. But which adult surrogate listed in the poll best reflects...

... the manner in which you'd rather that they conducted themselves?

- Dave

[mondo joe]

20. I think it's a cheap, mean spirited poll and I'm not playing. I want my daughters to be themselves

- whoever that is.

[CorpGovActivist]

21. I think Chelsea is a cheap, mean-spirited surrogate. I'm not playing.

Whereas Cate could - and did - articulate policy differences with her dad, Chelsea seems incapable of doing so.

- Dave

[Maddy McCall]

22. You're disgusting.

[CorpGovActivist]

23. I get snippy, I'm disgusting? Chelsea gets snippy with questioners, as an official surrogate...

... and your verdict is...???

- Dave

[mondo joe]

34. I'm sure you do. That's why I'm not playing your mean little game of pitting two young democratic

women against each other. They're fine people just as they are.

[CorpGovActivist]

107. And both have publicly demonstrated their independent stances from their...

... parents' policy stances, right?

- Dave

[incapsulated]

35. Your hate knows no bounds does it?

It's sick, really.

[CorpGovActivist]

42. I admire Cate and Elizabeth Edwards for strongly and publicly saying that John wasn't far enough ...

... along on LGBT issues, for instance.

I'd put my nearly 14-year relationship up against the Clintons' any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Yet no Clinton - not even the candidate's surrogates - has had the backbone to stand up for my relationship.

So I admire strong women and men - who take tough positions. Deal with that, without trying to paste a label on me that doesn't fit.

- Dave

[QC]

70. Has Obama stood up for your relationship?

Last I heard, he thought that marriage was limited to men and women for religious reasons, though he did offer, graciously, to allow our kind a "basic set" of rights.

[CorpGovActivist]

94. I see someone open-minded enough to change his views on this.

With HRC, I've seen no movement in 35 years of Experience.

- Dave

[11 Bravo]

185. If St. Barack could spare him for a couple of minutes, I'm sure Donnie McClurkin could "cure" you.

:shrug:

[CorpGovActivist]

186. I'm capable of weighing the totality of each candidate's record and positions...

... without the need for a faith healing.

HRC lost my vote. With her ongoing refusal to accept accountability for her IWR vote, and with her many other expedience-based (not principles-based) policy stances, she does nothing to make me want to return to the fold.

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

26. Let me guess: Likely that Hillary supporters will choose Chelsea; others will choose Cate.

Useless poll. Maybe I would want my daughter to have some of the characteristics of both, but mostly be her own unique self.

[CorpGovActivist]

29. Hey, I'm hearing some Clinton supporter friends saying that Chelsea is less than useless...

... as a surrogate, and should be pulled immediately.

She's not exactly helped soften the image.

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

44. Well, they are your friends, aren't they? And I doubt you discourage their opinion.

I assume you also have friends who call Cate "less than useless." After all, you can't please everybody. Whether someone is useful or not, after all, is in the eye of the beholder.

[CorpGovActivist]

104. Well, as usual, I'm sure Mark Penn has the internal polling figures...

... to tell him what to do.

If Chelsea is helping according to those indisputable metrics, she'll remain on the trail.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

36. I'm not choosing either. They're both dedicated Democrats. Nothing wrong with either

of them, and I'd be proud of both of them as a parent.

[Straight Shooter]

53. I'm just saying those that do participate in choosing one, which I did not.

I agree with your sentiment, and I'll add that both young women are good decent human beings who deserve our respect, not derision.

[incapsulated]

28. I'm not voting for their daughters

So I don't give a shit.

[CorpGovActivist]

30. I think their respective daughters' attitudes and statements reflect on the candidates...

... and the upbringing they helped provide.

It's an indirect way of measuring the candidates, IMO.

- Dave

[LeftishBrit]

31. Well, Patti Davis and Ron Reagan Jr. turned out pretty reasonable DESPITE their parents

You can't always go by the kids.

[CorpGovActivist]

32. True, but I think - ceteris parabus - the kids are a decent inferential reflection...

... on the candidates.

- Dave

[bigbrother05]

117. That makes them a 50-50 split

considering Maureen and Michael. Think all the Bushes have pretty well validated the OPs premise. Also think it's fair to say that like Gerald Ford's & Jimmy Carter's kids are pretty accurate reflections on their parents.

[CorpGovActivist]

151. I sincerely and deeply admired Cate Edwards' ability to firmly, yet graciously...

... disagree with her dad on weighty policy matters.

I think it speaks to a certain style of upbringing, that doesn't require unthinking adherence to the family orthodoxy.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

38. Like Al Gore's son's legal troubles? What a sad sham you've revealed yourself to be.

Honestly.

[CorpGovActivist]

47. Al Gore isn't running. Comparing Cate's willingness to disagree publicly with her father...

... on LGBT issues, with Chelsea's kneejerk defense of her mother's IWR vote, seems to me to be a fair comparison to make.

Once the adult children of candidates step into the public arena, it's fair to make judgment calls about their stances.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

48. If you think the kids are a reflection of the parents - as you've stated - then

Gore's kids count. So do Reagan's.

Very sad.

[CorpGovActivist]

50. Mark Penn? Is that you? Didn't you get it all out of your system in 2001?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=turning+a+win+into+a+draw+penn+site%3Adlc.org">Will you stop at nothing to criticize the former Veep for firing you?

[mondo joe]

54. I'm not criticizing Gore. I love Al Gore. But unlike you I don't consider his son a reflection

on him.

[CorpGovActivist]

57. In the final analysis of that incident...

... I think the younger Gore learned from his mistake, and his parents were clearly there for him throughout.

Even throwing him into the mix here (where he doesn't belong, since dad isn't running), I still think that an adult child who's playing surrogate on the trail who disagrees publicly with their parent is a credit to superior upbringing.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

58. I think you're a very sad caricature. Both young women are intelligent, decent people

working for the Democratic party.

[CorpGovActivist]

69. But have both disagreed publicly with their parent's policy stance on an issues? n/t

[mondo joe]

128. I don't care if they have or not. I have no reason to demonize either of them. I'm glad to have

them both in the party.

[CorpGovActivist]

132. I'm not demonizing; I'm criticizing, and gauging others' perceptions...

... there's a distinct difference.

I think Ms. Clinton learned a few hard lessons this week; I don't think she's a bad person, but I think she had some rather inept, unhelpful gaffes.

Compared to Ms. Edwards, I think Ms. Clinton is not a very effective surrogate.

Judging by the poll results, I think I'm far from alone in that judgment call.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

134. Bullshit. This was a nasty poll intended only to be divisive and to criticize a Democrat.

You can stop bullshitting now - you're not fooling anyone.

[CorpGovActivist]

135. You've expressed an opinion on that score...

... but you don't have the red line to my heart or my head. So, no, you're dead wrong.

I think Ms. Clinton stepped in it, several times, this week.

I also think that - compared to Ms. Edwards - she shows an astonishing lack of independence from her campaigning parent's untenable stances.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

136. Adios. You can take your road without me. NT

[AlCzervik]

71. nicely said Joe.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Elizabeth Edwards

I'm an Obama supporter and I'd seriously consider voting for her over Obama if she were running.

[CorpGovActivist]

102. Yeah, I am a huge fan of Elizabeth Edwards myself. n/t

[MagsDem]

39. They are both great

[CorpGovActivist]

101. I don't recall Cate giving a snippy answer to a questioner about her dad's IWR vote...

... but then again, John Edwards obviated the need for anyone in his family to have to make that apology for him, since he did it himself.

- Dave

[donheld]

40. Either one. They are both very admirable girls

No use pitting one against the other.

[CorpGovActivist]

99. Well, I just think that Cate treated questioners with more respect...

... and her father obviated the need to apologize for his IWR vote, because he did that himself.

- Dave

[NastyRiffraff]

41. I didn't vote, because I really like both of them

and there was no option for "both." Their parents should be proud of them.

[mondo joe]

43. As the father of two daughters, the whole poll reminded me of "which of your daugthers do you like

better?"

People are individuals.

[pbca]

45. I hope my daughters

Grow up to be who they are - I've had this conversation with them before: Admire, don't emulate. Don't try to be 'like' anyone else.

[CorpGovActivist]

97. Good advice. But as a parent, which model would you rather see...

... them most resemble?

- Dave

[B2G]

46. Cate by a mile n/t

[CorpGovActivist]

90. .

:thumbsup:

[MethuenProgressive]

51. This thread brought to you by HateHillAtAllCosts Inc.

:puke:

[theHandpuppet]

55. Yep. Surprise, surprise.

Created entirely to provide another attack on HRC, this time on her daughter. The poll part is just a ruse.

[CorpGovActivist]

87. Senator Clinton has apparently persuaded Chelsea that her IWR vote...

... doesn't require an apology - as evidenced by the statements Chelsea is giving, as an adult surrogate.

By contrast, Cate Edwards didn't unthinkingly buy into her dad's stance on LGBT issues.

I think that's worthy of comparison.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

59. No, brought to you by, "I defected from Hill because of her poor policy stances."

[AlCzervik]

64. can you manage to at least leave her daughter out of it?

[CorpGovActivist]

73. Sure, when her daughter stops making trips on campaign coin, as a surrogate...

... and retires to being a private citizen again.

Until such time, her remarks on behalf of the candidate - her mom - are subject to criticism, scrutiny, and comparison with those of other adult children surrogates, such as Cate Edwards'.

Penn and the Clintons don't get to have it both ways.

- Dave

[AlCzervik]

76. We already know you hate Clinton, thats fine but really, enough is enough.

[CorpGovActivist]

84. You're right: I defected from the Clinton Camp, because of her policy stances. Enough Clintons. n/t

[Straight Shooter]

129. You were never for Hillary Clinton. You were an Edwards supporter.

Unlike Edwards, you do not take the high road.

[CorpGovActivist]

133. Actually, I took on an Edwards supporter or two in defense of HRC in the early fall...

... of 2007. I did not defect from the HRC camp until later in the fall. I'd be happy to point out threads if you don't know how to search the archives.

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

155. One or two defenses does not put you in the "Hillary camp," and you know it.

I've provided "defense" on behalf of Obama, also, a few times. But I would never claim to have been in "his camp" for having done so.

[CorpGovActivist]

157. Well, my history of support for her is there, and my support was hers to lose. She lost it.

Yes, the candidate lost my support, lost my vote in the primary, and it was all hers to lose.

Whether you choose to believe that she drove people out of her camp with her policy stances or not is on you.

- Dave

[bunnies]

52. Obama. nt

edit: nt not nr

[Raine]

56. Cate Edwards for sure

I'm an Edwards supporter from way back. I think Chelsea is a nice young woman but I feel bad that after all those years of being protected from the media she is now being put into the limelight.

[CorpGovActivist]

80. Yeah, I was frankly surprised that they trotted her out. Desperate, it seems to me. n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. Ughhhhh. So Now The Ridiculously Petty Bickering Has Gotten To This Level?

:puke:

[CorpGovActivist]

65. When an adult child of a candidate - acting as a surrogate, on campaign's coin - disses a ...

... serious questioner about her mother's IWR vote, her comments (made in an official capacity) are fair game for comparison with other similarly-situated surrogates.

Cate Edwards had the intelligence, intellectual honesty, and mental fortitude to disagree with her father's stance on gay marriage equality.

I'd be blown away to see Chelsea go off-script and do something similar.

- Dave

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Oh Get A Grip. Seriously. My God.

[CorpGovActivist]

74. So, you think Chelsea gave a good answer in Wisconsin? If you think her answer is not...

... untenable, defend it.

- Dave

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. This Isn't About That. It's About The Amazingly Petty & Melodramatic Degrees You Took It In Your OP

It's childish, overdramatic, and a bit disgusting in my opinion. If ya don't see it, ya don't see it. Grow up. Nite.

[CorpGovActivist]

82. Yup. The OP is just frothing mad. A simple question, and a poll. Wow. n/t

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CorpGovActivist]

137. If you'd care to discuss Ms. Clinton's remarks on the IWR vote, that's fine...

... but the ad hominem attacks on me are done.

- Dave

[mondo joe]

138. Funny, your thread was about dividing and demonizing Democrats.

A little late to pretend it's about the IWR.

I can only thank you for reinforcing my growing realization that I cant vote for Obama in the GE, if you are an exaple of his supporters.

[CorpGovActivist]

139. Um, it was sparked by how Ms. Clinton treated the Wisconsin questioner...

... which made me think back to how Ms. Edwards handled her own - independently articulated - policy differences with her dad.

You do understand what prompted the poll, right? You have been paying attention to how Ms. Clinton has handled anyone who dares to criticize her mom's stances on things like the IWR, right?

Do you think the question materialized out of thin air, with no reference to this week's events?

:shrug:

- Dave

[mondo joe]

140. I know exactly what prompted it: your hate and willingness to divide.

Thanks!

[CorpGovActivist]

141. OK. Seriously. You can't hang on facts, so you attack personally. Nice.

[mondo joe]

142. Your entire thread is an attack. Goodnight to you, and good lucj in your little hate tunnel.

Bye!

[CorpGovActivist]

144. If you wake up in a facty mood tomorrow, do come back. n/t

[AlCzervik]

62. this is a really awful poll.

[CorpGovActivist]

78. As bad as the answer Chelsea gave on her mom's lack of clairvoyance? n/t

[AlCzervik]

86. she's not the enemy and i'm all done here, you have 0 class.

[CorpGovActivist]

88. An apology for the IWR vote would show class. n/t

[silverweb]

68. Herself.

Exactly as she is.

[CorpGovActivist]

77. OK. Would you want her to be able to frame a critique of your position? n/t

[silverweb]

119. That's an irrelevant question.

If she wanted to, she could. If she didn't want to, that would be fine.

If she didn't want to be involved in campaigning in any way, she would be completely free to not do so.

If she wanted to be involved, she would be asked to cooperate with the campaign management staff and their guidelines.

I want her to live her OWN life, not be an adjunct to mine.

[CorpGovActivist]

120. Exactly my problem with the phenom we've seen this past week.

"If she wanted to be involved, she would be asked to cooperate with the campaign management staff and their guidelines."

You nailed it right there.

- Dave

[silverweb]

131. I haven't been paying attention to the phenom.

So I really can't comment on that further.

[QC]

81. I would want my child to be the sort of person who

posts hateful shit about people's kids on message boards.

I love you, Corp! You really do great things for our party!

[CorpGovActivist]

83. They're adult surrogates. Don't buy into the double standard. Either they're...

... acting in an adult capacity when they step up to the microphone for their mom or dad, or they're not.

- Dave

[LWolf]

85. Neither.

I don't have any daughters, but I am completely happy with both of my grown sons, who are themselves. I like them that way.

They disagree with me all the time; independent thinking is a family trait. The fact that we can dispute each others' opinions with love and respect helps to keep us all intellectually honest.

My boys have no problem disagreeing with me, and saying so. They will also stand firmly with me during any attack or time of trouble.

[CorpGovActivist]

89. Nicely said. n/t

[NMMNG]

91. Have you sought therapy for your issue with HRC?

[Name removed]

92. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CorpGovActivist]

93. Well, I hear it did wonders for her marriage, which she deems superior to mine. n/t

[NMMNG]

98. What does your candidate have to say about your marriage?

:shrug:

[CorpGovActivist]

100. Go to Visible Vote's online forum videos to see n/t

[NMMNG]

103. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman"

I've seen it.

[CorpGovActivist]

105. I've seen HRC's, too. Of the top three, I was rooting for Edwards.

Now, I see Obama as more likely to make a great leap forward than HRC.

- Dave

[NMMNG]

106. I was rooting for Kucinich, then for Edwards.

There's no way I'd vote for Obama. He's no friend to us.

[CorpGovActivist]

108. But HRC is?

:shrug:

[NMMNG]

110. More than he is

But you're welcome to disagree. It's a free country.

[CorpGovActivist]

112. Sorry. I have a political memory that extends back far enough...

... to encompass the Clintons' repeated betrayals on LGBT rights. No dice.

This is an instance where I'd rather gamble on the devil I don't yet know, than throw good energy and effort after bad, with the devils I do know.

But it's a free country. Keep banging your head against that wall. The Clinton campaign may open up one of these days.

- Dave

[NMMNG]

114. I remember that too

And I know the reality of it, not the trumped up version.

I also know how Obama has thrown LGBTs under the bus repeatedly before even being elected. I have no reason to believe he'll change his tune once in office. He's too beholden to his personal beliefs and his evangelical buddies.

[CorpGovActivist]

115. What's the Clinton Excuse then?

What's her Excuse?

Without anyone she's beholden to, what's her Excuse?

- Dave

[NMMNG]

116. Her excuse for what?

What did she do?

[CorpGovActivist]

118. Her cowardice on LGBT issues...no leader is she.

And I don't care how many gay "friends of Hill" say she's a swell person to have at a dinner party, or what a swell boss she is to the LGBT staffers in her service.

At least with someone like Edwards or Obama, I know the arguments that will work, to help them begin to rethink their religiously-grounded stances.

But how do you get a lever under the shifting sands of personal political expedience?

You can't.

- Dave

[NMMNG]

121. Misandry.

She hates men. Especially gay men. By extension she hates lesbians because they don't act feminine enough. :sarcasm:




In other words, there's no use arguing with you. You have too many issues with HRC. Go back to your cartoons.

[CorpGovActivist]

123. You've offered nary a fact in support of her leadership on LGBT issues.

Argue on facts, by all means.

Lay out a factual case that demonstrates she deserves my household's respect and support.

Lay out a factual case that she has led on these issues, and has not tucked tail when the going got hard.

- Dave

[JohnLocke]

95. Cate, of course.

[CorpGovActivist]

96. .

:thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

109. *******I think this demonstrates Cate would be a better ticket-helping surrogate in the fall******

[AZBlue]

111. The finest thing any parent can give their child is self-confidence and intelligence.

To do what is necessary to ensure they have both is one of the greatest gifts a parent can give. To honor their opinions, regardless of whether or not they agreee with yours, is cherry on the sundae! And, to realize that your child has grown up to make their own intelligent and thoughtful decisions - WOW!

[CorpGovActivist]

113. Beautifully said...

... with a penguin, to boot.

: )

- Dave

[ErnestoG]

122. Bella Abzug.

[CorpGovActivist]

124. Strong, opinionated, acts in accordance with her principles...

... and???

- Dave

[ErnestoG]

152. Yeah. And Bella never would have voted for the IWR.

[CorpGovActivist]

153. Ah, well. She should prepare now to be called a misogynist, for daring...

... to criticize HRC. So much for her lifetime of work proving otherwise.

- Dave

[Samantha]

125. Caroline Kennedy

I know she's 50 now so perhaps not a great choice for this poll, but she's so dignified, so intelligent, articulate, poised, unpretentious, family oriented, gives back to the community, works for charitable causes, loves books and libraries, writes books, athletic and a wonderful wife and mother. She's a success regardless of what one's yardstick for that term is.

She is the kind of person any parent would be thrilled to have their children emulate.

[CorpGovActivist]

127. I second that. As an "Other" vote, that's a darn good one. n/t

[varelse]

126. If I ever have a daughter

I would hope she'd grow up to be like HERSELF and NO ONE ELSE. Thank you very much.

[CorpGovActivist]

159. Well said. But would you rather she be able and willing...

... to disagree with you on a policy stance you've taken?

- Dave

[varelse]

201. Well I get the feeling she'd inherit at least a few tendencies from me and her putative father, sooo

that'd be pretty much a guarantee. Just ask my mom lol.

Somehow, I think that both Chelsea and Cate are capable of independent thought as well as loyalty, though. Both women are daughters anyone would be proud of, IMO.

[jillan]

143. Neither - my daughters are great just the way they are.

[CorpGovActivist]

145. Nice! But do they disagree with you on policies? n/t

[jillan]

150. Not really so much on policies, but on what time to be home on a Saturday nite - that's where the

disagreements are huge :P

[CorpGovActivist]

154. You might have a budding lawyer on your hands, if you find yourself...

... twisted in knots by the force of her/their logic.

; )

- Dave

[bigwillq]

146. Both are wonderful human beings

who were raised by wonderful parents.

[CorpGovActivist]

147. But as adult campaign surrogates...

... which one do you think has the more mature approach to her parent's policies?

- Dave

[bigwillq]

148. That wasn't the initial question

I think both did (are doing) a fine job.

[CorpGovActivist]

149. "to disagree with me, publicly, on policy issues"

See the OP.

[jlake]

156. I would be thrilled with either - and to rank them is petty.

[CorpGovActivist]

158. To treat the IWR questioner as Ms. Clinton did was petty. n/t

[bigtree]

160. But, this poll is your invention. It reflects on YOU, not anyone else. Petty and divisive.

[CorpGovActivist]

161. Yes, it reflects that the other voters who chose Cate over Chelsea are paying attention...

... to how Chelsea is conducting herself on the stump, as an official adult campaign surrogate.

Chelsea has behaved in a petty and divisive manner. The fact that this poll has held steady at a 2-to-1 margin reflects, I believe, just how ineptly she has represented her campaigning parent, especially when benchmarked against someone with the mental fortitude to disagree publicly with her dad on policies.

- Dave

[bigtree]

163. A disgusting, tabloid display. Dividing party members is your game here. These women are your pawns.

idiotic

[CorpGovActivist]

165. No. I have family serving in Iraq. Again. Because Clinton put her political expedience...

... above any semblance of principles.

If you don't have family you're worried about on a daily basis, you have NO IDEA how insulting Chelsea's snot-nosed answer was.

- Dave

[bigtree]

173. Oh, you're on a vendetta. And, you're using these women as pawns in your vengeance play

. . . encouraging others to follow you down.

I've got an idea. Since Bush completely disregarded the provisions in the Iraq resolution which were actually original to the legislation -- provisions which mandated an exhaustion of all peaceful means and a return to the Security Council before he jumped forward with the military action he had been PROMISING FOR WEEKS before the vote. Why not blame him instead?

Don't forget. It may fool some folks -- who think it's better (and more convenient) to blame Democrats, rather than blame Bush for what he ultimately did in pulling out the inspectors who had been allowed back into Iraq after this resolution passed -- to tell them that the resolution was the trigger Bush used to preemptively pull the inspectors out and invade. But, you and I both know that the 'authority' he relied on to deploy troops was opportunistically inserted into the IR, but was NOT original to that document. To mobilize and deploy the troops, Bush invoked a loophole (some say an illegal one) in the War Powers Act which allowed him to commit troops without prior congressional approval, like Clinton did with Haiti. In fact, the Iraq resolution explicitly states that nothing in the resolution is to SUPERSEDE the provisions of the War Powers Act that Bush employed. Bush, and, Bush alone, took the nation to war against Iraq, ignoring every provision in that resolution except the one (WPA) which wasn't original to it and wasn't precluded by it.

So, your outrage against Clinton seems contrived. At the very least, it's misguided and incorrect.

[CorpGovActivist]

174. I'm opposing a candidate I believe to be unfit to be C-i-C, unfit to sit in the Oval...

... based on many, many, many of her policy positions. I started out in her camp.

Blame Bush? Of course I do. Blame a Senator who didn't read the NIE, and/or put her political ambitions ahead of the life and death consequences of giving a green light for war? Oh, yeah. I'll assign her her fair share of the blame, too.

- Dave

[bigtree]

177. as long as it's really a 'fair' share . . . but, we digress, sir

It's extremely classless to pit the family members against each other, even in a virtual reality poll. This is not unity politics. It's one of the lowest forms of politicking to drag family members into the muck. Let's continue to hold the CANDIDATES responsible for their actions and afford these good folks who support them as much respect as we would expect for our own.

[CorpGovActivist]

178. "extremely classless" to put them on the stump...

... and not expect the "consumer" of the horsecrap answers to react.

Ms. Clinton is acting as a campaign surrogate. As such, she is no longer immune from criticism.

- Dave

[bigtree]

191. these folks are not in politics. Neither are many of the other supporters who get bashed here daily

man, it's like a slapfight with eyes closed. How do you know who you're really hitting? Best to go directly at the candidate and try and leave these folks out of the line of your fire. You are responsible for your own actions.

[CorpGovActivist]

192. You dispute that Chelsea is acting in an official capacity? Move those goalposts.

Please. She's acting officially, and her travels and other arrangements are paid for by Clinton Campaign Coin.

Give it a rest.

Her comments are fair game for criticism.

- Dave

[rucky]

162. Cate for the reason you allude to.

But I still say the Gore kids are the coolest.

[CorpGovActivist]

164. Karena was one year behind me at college.

She has definitely grown into an amazing speaker.

- Dave

[Guava Jelly]

168. I would want her to be herself

And hope I was a good enough father to guide her in that process.

[Evergreen Emerald]

169. This is really very ugly. Chelsea has been supporting her mother

on the road and is just a genuine awesome person. How dare you biased-sitting-on-your-ass-all-day-attacking-strangers-on-an-angry-DU judge Clinton in any way.

What a load of crap.

[CorpGovActivist]

170. When Chelsea looks a maimed military family in the eye...

... and lets them set her spoiled snotty-nosed answer straight, then maybe she'll get it.

- Dave

[Evergreen Emerald]

172. Look. ITS NOT CLINTON'S FAULT. Your stupid answer

shows how vitriolic and ignorant DU has become. You are ignoring everything Clinton said and did against the war. You are ignoring everything Obama did NOT do when he had the opportunity to do it.

Chelsea is right. Had she known Bush was going to do that to us, she never would have given him the power.

And I am disgusted with your response.

[CorpGovActivist]

175. Fine. You're disgusted. In a misplaced way.

Where is your disgust for Senator Clinton's political expedience?

- Dave

[Evergreen Emerald]

181. where is your disgust for Obama's?

You have gone too far. Your posts are getting uglier and uglier. As is DU.

[CorpGovActivist]

182. Thanks for that update.

[noamnety]

171. Other - awful poll.

I'm not even sure what the point is - to define women by their parents? To rate the candidates' parenting skills?

Is there a reason we are having a vote off of candidates' offspring here? There are candidates I disagree with and would never dream of voting for who have good kids, and candidates I have voted for in the past whose kids have shown very bad judgment.

I thought Chelsea's recent comments were over the top obnoxious, defensive, rude, and showed a surprising unwillingness to discuss difficult issues honestly. I assume that's what inspired your little contest here, but it would be more respectful to treat her as an adult whom you disagree with vehemently - on her own terms - than to continue to define her as if she's in some kind of beautiful baby contest, and you have a line up of the other contestants.

[CorpGovActivist]

176. I think everyone who's voted understands they're voting on the adult surrogating skills...

... of the two. If you didn't understand that, please consider this the clarification.

- Dave

[noamnety]

179. It seemed you needed clarification of why this poll is offending people.

If you are still confused about that, there are a number of posts clarifying it for you. When a BUNCH of people are objecting to a poll, perhaps it's good to step back and reflect on that, rather than assuming there is one correct point of view, yours, and everyone else is just too dense to get it.

[CorpGovActivist]

180. I am offended by much of what I read here. The difference?

I have enough respect for the free marketplace of ideas to either:

1. Weigh in with a counterargument that pertains to the OP's argument; or

2. File the inane meme away, in an appropriate, cylinder-shaped brain cell that reads 86.

Kumbaya,

- Dave

[noamnety]

187. Listen, or don't listen.

A number of people are trying to tell you something here.

[CorpGovActivist]

188. The poll result speaks more clearly than the idle chidings...

... of those who don't like what they're seeing in the poll result.

- Dave

[noamnety]

189. At least in Michigan they gave us an uncommitted option.

Your poll results don't tell you anything about whether people think this is an offensive question, because you didn't provide an option for that.

Your poll results only assess the opinions of the people who thought a poll like this was worthy of a vote.

I just checked 3 other polls, randomly - political ones and the photo contest. Their votes to views ratio is almost 1:4. Yours is closer to 1:18.

Again, something to reflect on.

[CorpGovActivist]

190. Your three random polls...

... have how many responses? Each backout registers as a view, so you might consider that.

BTW, I've had advanced stats. Shove ratios.

Perhaps you'd care to provide the links to these three polls, so we can all see the dynamics?

Do any of those three polls have 120+ votes so far, for instance? Or this many responses?

Careful throwing around things like ratios. You'll start to sound like Mark Penn, predicting 360 Electoral College votes.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

193. Case in point

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4618145&mesg_id=4618145

[noamnety]

194. You can check the polls on the front pages as well as I can.

Pick your own random three polls. Go to the first polls you find in GD-P or GD.

What's the vote ratio?

[CorpGovActivist]

195. Ratios matter less and less, the more votes and responses there are...

... and any intellectually honest assessment takes that into account.

But, nice try.

- Dave

[Honeycombe8]

183. Who is Cate Edwards? (I guess that says it all, doesn't it?) nt

[CorpGovActivist]

184. I guess it does: you're a woefully misinformed voter?

:shrug:

[rodeodance]

196. Another divisive poll---Shame on you.

[CorpGovActivist]

197. But kudos for Chelsea, for her wonder-inspiring answer to the Wisconsin questioner?

I mean, come on. If you wanna defend her snot-nosed answer, defend it.

- Dave

[cloud75]

198. who is cate??? ah it doesn't matter anyone but a clinton

go cate go go cate go :dunce:

[CorpGovActivist]

199. Assuming you're being tongue-in-cheek...

... it still speaks volumes to look at the whopping margin here.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

200. At 125 votes, 70/30 split. n/t