ABC News' website picks up story of Obama's misogynistic attacks.

[Karmadillo]

Tapper forgot Obama's willing participation in the misogynistic "She's a witch!" SNL skit, but one can hope this kind of coverage will encourage the Senator to clean up his act.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/is-obama-using.html#comments

Political Punch
ABC News Senior National Correspondent Jake Tapper

Is Obama Using Sexist Language?
February 16, 2008 11:30 AM

Earlier this month, speaking at Tulane University, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, said this about the attacks coming his way from Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY:

"You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out," Obama said.

The CLAWS come out? Really?

Then yesterday Obama told reporters who had asked about Clinton's latest attack ad, "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

That prompted some female TV reporters to question the language he was using.

According to this unofficial transcript, over at MSNBC, Andrea Mitchell and Norah O'Donnell seemed to suggest Obama may have been -- if not playing the gender card, then using language women voters might find offensive.

more...

[greenman3610]

1. Tapper has demonstrated he's another idiot

so this is more bs too.

[rodeodance]

4. I know the hit piece he did on B.Clinton and his speech on the economy

[gaspee]

10. Why?

Because he's calling Obama on this?

What kind of judgment does it show on Obama's part? What kind of respect does it show for Senator Clinton and women in general? If a Republican went on SNL and did a skit about Mrs Obama being a witch or a 'ho -- what would the reaction be? Why is he held to a different standard?

I don't care if she's the "enemy" of Obama and his supporters. You don't go on national TV and call her a witch. Have some damned respect!

[ThatPoetGuy]

25. I'm an Obama supporter, and I agree with you.

"She's a witch," "a scary witch," "cackle," all these gender-hostile phrases from the Obama camp really made me hesitate to support him. Obama supporters who look the other way, pretend it isn't happening, or mock Hillary for being over-sensitive to this woman-hating, made it very hard for me to come out for Obama.

I had to remind myself of his liberal voting record, his accomplishments in the Illinois state senate (videotaping interrogations to prevent brutality), and Michelle Obama's achievements, in order to get past the misogyny he and his camp fostered during this campaign.

[maximusveritas]

27. You're quoting things he never said

and no one prominent in his campaign has said either.

Are you just going off what random anonymous people say on the internet?

[ThatPoetGuy]

34. "quoting things he never said"

He appeared on a skit on Saturday Night Live, where those things were said. He knew they would be said in advance, he memorized his lines, and he allowed them to be said. The entire joke of the sketch was about people thinking Hillary was dressed as a witch. He didn't have to appear. He didn't have to go along with this very loaded, gendered, woman-hating joke at the expense of women. Powerful women are witches, ha ha ha, it's so funny, isn't it? Ugly old hags using supernatural power for harm.

And yes, that IS the message Obama chose to participate in, when he appeared on that sketch. It was woman-hating.

"Scary witch," "witch," "she's a witch," all repeated on Obama's SNL sketch, as punchlines, at the expense of women.

Again and again, I have told myself that Obama-the-campaigner is not the same man he was before, and not the same man he will be as president. As president, he will be a better man.

[boston bean]

45. do you have a youtube of that. i missed that one. TIA

[maximusveritas]

63. Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRFns9l44WM

There's no doubt that Hillary is the butt of most of the jokes, but the other candidates are also made fun of as well. I don't find it too funny, but I wouldn't call it sexist unless you think "witch" is a purely sexist term. I'm fairly PC, but I try not to go overboard with it.

[WillyT]

84. You're Penalizing Him For An SNL Sketch ???

Wow.

:crazy:

[ThatPoetGuy]

99. It's sick that you AREN'T penalizing him.

If Hillary had done an SNL sketch joking about Obama getting lynched, would that bother you? It would bother me.

After Edwards dropped out, it was pretty obvious that I was going to support Obama. But it was hard for me to support him, precisely because comments like yours had alienated me. Obama chose to go on tv and spread age-old hatred against women. "Suffer not a witch to live," it says in the Bible.

When Obama's supporters gloss over this or mock people who object to it, all you're doing is a) spreading the woman-hating and b) convincing undecided people not to support your candidate. It took me a long time to decide to caucus for Obama, precisely because I didn't want to be part of any movement that so blithely disregards hate speech about women.

And, you know -- people who are trying to decide whether to vote for McCain or Obama in the general? If they talk to you, they're going to vote for McCain. If they talk to me, they're going to vote for Obama.

[WillyT]

107. Oh Grow Up !!! - SNL Lampoons Everyone And Their Goddamned Stereotypes !!!

Jesus... I've been watching it since 1976... YOU haven't noticed???

Believe me, when either Clinton or Obama gets in the WH, prepare for the vapors, cause SNL will CONTINUE to lampoon whoever occupies that office, as they should!

Hell, if we're too thin-skinned to take the heat from SNL, we have NO business occupying the White House.

:wtf:

[ThatPoetGuy]

111. Hey, here's an idea...

"Hillary" is at a party and runs into some acquaintances. As the acquaintances are saying goodbye, they throw in, "Good luck with that Republican primary battle!" And she replies, "Actually I'm a Democrat." The acquaintance laughs and says, "Sure ya are, Hill!"

Another acquaintance says, "Hey Hillary, I sure hope you win the nomination!" She says "Thanks!" And this acquaintance says, "Yeah, I think you'd beat Obama in the general election. You'll do WAY better than Romney or McCain." She's surprised and says, "I'm running against Obama for the primary." The friend says, "I thought Obama is a Democrat?" And Hillary says, "He is a Democrat, and so am I." The friend laughs, "Sure you are, Hill! Good one!"

And so on.

See that? It trashes the hell out of Hillary. Without going after her as an old, ugly woman with powers she shouldn't have, who deserves to be burned at the stake.

Obama's sketch went after her as an old, ugly woman with powers she shouldn't have, who deserves to be burned at the stake.

And again -- it's people like you who are going to doom Obama in the general election. I can say, "Yeah, he shouldn't have done that, but still, these are the reasons I support him," and make a compelling argument. People like you will say, "Grow the fuck up, bitches, and stop being so fucking sensitive."

Which of us is going to win over dozens of undecideds with our argument? And which of us is going to alienate the vast majority of people?

[WillyT]

114. It Was A Halloween Sketch For Christ-Sakes !!!

And I'm pretty certain he didn't write the thing.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

:banghead:

[ThatPoetGuy]

119. So if Hillary had appeared in a Halloween sketch...

where everyone told Obama that he was wearing a great Muslim costume, that wouldn't have been offensive? How about an Osama bin Laden costume?

That would be a fucking filthy, scummy, low thing to do.

Portraying Hillary as a witch was a fucking filthy, scummy, low thing to do.

He didn't HAVE to do it. He saw the script in advance and he could've said, uh, no, I'm not going to have her mocked as a witch, sorry.

I'm looking forward to eight years of Barack Obama in the White House, because I believe he will lead our nation to behave more diplomatically with the rest of the world, he will address racial conflicts, he will get strong legislation passed to reward work and not wealth.

I don't need him to be some kind of infallible demigod to vote for him, campaign for him, and support him to the best of my ability.

He shouldn't have done that sketch. He should have said something to stop the media from portraying a woman's laugh as a "cackle."

Obama supporters who can't accept that he occasionally makes mistakes are going to cost him votes.

[crimsonblue]

178. First of all, they'd probably give Obama a whte guy costume

Secondly, learn to fucking laugh, you curmudgeon. Seriously. It was a comedy show. I loved that Barack was on it.. It shows it has a sense of humor. Give me a fucking break.

[MsMagnificent]

179. How do you know as pres. he "will be a better man"

If he can sink this low now, isn't just as possible he will become worse?

There is no excuse for this language against women -- not even for a few guffaws.
And those other cracks, especially the "periodic" one, are blatant.

[Blue_In_AK]

35. Well, yes, he did say those things

about the "claws" and the "feeling down" because I saw clips of both instances.

[maximusveritas]

I'm not talking about that; look at the post I'm replying to n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

42. Sorry, my error

I was just reading through the threads from top to bottom, so it was kind of hard to tell who was responding to whom. Was there an SNL sketch? I missed it if there was.

[maximusveritas]

64. No problem

I figured that's what it was. Here's a link of O'Reilly showing the SNL sketch :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRFns9l44WM

[Blue_In_AK]

77. Kinda funny, actually.

Thanks for the link.

[pnwmom]

87. Obama did refer to "claws" -- which is a gender linked term --

and he also linked Hillary with PMS (premenstrual syndrome) when he said, in the sentence in the link: "periodically" "feeling down" and "attacks." That was all coded language but quite clear to millions of women.

[no name no slogan]

97. "Claws" is a gender-linked term? Since when?

I think most people see it as an animal-related term.

[Alexander]

100. Since never. The fake outrage continues.

[no name no slogan]

103. Good. I thought I had to go play more records backwards

so I can pick up the "secret messages" :crazy:

[Alexander]

113. You can ruin your Ozzy and Styx records by doing that.

Then again, you might want to ruin your Styx records. ;-)

[dorktv]

104. Um hello: Catty? when two women fight it is a "cat fight" "she is being

catty..."

[Alexander]

116. Obama never said "catty" and post #70 shows "claws" remarks being used on males.

But thanks for playing. :hi:

[dorktv]

124. Cats have claws...or did you forget that?

As for post #70...I will go find it and look at it.

[anigbrowl]

125. Lots of animals have claws. Get over it.

I've gotten made with people and others have correctly commented I'm 'showing my claws'. I'm a guy, and I don't find anything gender-specific about it.

[pnwmom]

144. You're a guy and you find nothing gender-specific about it.

I'm not surprised that, as a guy, you haven't noticed that the term is much more often applied to women.

[Alexander]

148. Got proof "claws" is applied mostly to women?

Probably not.

On the other hand, post #70 shows the term can be applied to men just as easily.

I guess some people want to feel persecuted and victimized. Hence the fake outrage.

[pnwmom]

155. No, I don't. Now how do you explain the other comment, which happens

to be the one that bothered me more.

The one linking "periodically" and "feeling down" and "attacks." It sounded to me that Obama was trying to link Clinton to PMS. When I was in college, this was still an argument that many people would give for women not being President -- that they couldn't be trusted to lead the country because they had periods every month and might lose control during this time.

I would like to think that Obama used those words accidentally, but it was such a strange sentence (periodically?) that I don't know.

[Alexander]

146. So do bears, which are associated with men...or did you forget that?

I guess you just want to see sexism everywhere so you can pretend that you're persecuted.

:eyes:

[dorktv]

159. outside someone saying that a man is kind of like a big ol' teddy bear

I have rarely heard a man called a bear. And never that he used "claws."

And yesterday was the first time I had ever heard claws when refering to a man (which by the way looked in post #70 to be a specific situation.)

[pnwmom]

139. Claws - cat - catty - cat fight. These terms have been linked to women,

not to men.

[dorktv]

160. yep...

http://www.tmz.com/2007/09/26/claws-out-on-womens-murder-club-set/

http://irma.newsvine.com/_news/2006/06/27/270060-women-claws-for-corporate-america

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=3324237&page=1

http://www.realityreel.com/news-realitytv-article-1189.htm

http://businesswomenspeak.com/articles/LadiesClawTheirWay.pdf

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A584326

http://www.lewrockwell.com/decoster/decoster31.html

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2007/11/how-to-claw-your-way-to-the-top-of-the-lady-mag-pile.php

http://www.women24.com/Women24/FashionBeauty/NewsTrends/Article/0,,1-7-163_17617,00.html

http://www.mommywarriors.com/blogs/?p=1466

And on and on...women generally are the ones you think of when you hear the term "claws out."

[pnwmom]

162. And anyone who isn't being disingenuous knows that.

But thanks for the links.

[dorktv]

181. funny how men want to claim everything-even our insults.

[Clovis Sangrail]

101. quite clear to wingnuts /nt

[jab105]

117. Good fucking grief - claws is like an animal...and periodically, means every once in a while...

I saw the title and I was concerned that he might be doing something, then I read what he was accused of, and literally laughed out loud...what a fucking waste of article space...


geesh!

[pnwmom]

143. You must be a guy.

Women have something called "periods" and they have them periodically. They often "feel down" during their periods.

Just a few decades ago, women's periods were seriously stated as a reason no woman should be President -- that her hormonal peaks and valleys disqualified her from having her finger on the nuclear button.

[Alexander]

150. You must be searching for any excuse to yell "sexism" where none exists.

Maybe Hillary "feeling down" "periodically" has something to do with the fact that she's been trounced in every race since Super Tuesday, and only tied Obama then.

Those races happen "periodically". And they would result in the loser "feeling down".

Sheesh. The fake outrage continues.

[Cha]

49. You're totally lying so what

does that make you?

[ThatPoetGuy]

79. I'm lying? Huh?

What am I lying about?

[pnwmom]

85. You're being obtuse.

"periodically" "feeling down" and "attacks" represent coded language linking HRC to PMS (pre menstrual syndrome).

Millions of women got that, even if you didn't.

I hope it was a slip of the tongue for Obama, and not something his advisors suggested he say. Ditto for the claws remark.

[anigbrowl]

127. Paranoid Rubbish

She's 'down' in terms of the Presidential contest. I fail to see how Hillary could be accused of 'PMSing' since she's surely long past menopause by now in any case. Your 'coded language' is an interpretation of his remarks - and a pretty strained one at that.

[pnwmom]

137. It was "feeling down" which has an entirely different meaning.

Yes, she's past menopause, but that doesn't prevent Obama from linking her with all the negative ideas about women and PMS. You might not remember, but decades ago people seriously gave that as a reason that no woman should be President.

[DJ13]

2. ooooooo

:eyes:

[GarbagemanLB]

3. She's in her death throes. It will all be over soon, and then we can get to the real contest.

Obama v. McCain

[Darth_Kitten]

9. LOL...........real contest?

n/t

[LizW]

74. Please stop with the "death" talk

I'm sure I don't have to explain why.

[RememberWellstone]

106. Wrong

You Obaminites need to get a grip...you have no idea how this primary will turn out. We still have the superdelegates...trust me, your wonderboy will be gone in short order.

[Freida5]

5. Finally a major news organization is calling attention to BO's sexism

[Windy]

7. so desparate that you look for anything? I'm a woman and I find this stuff by clinton supporters

bordering on the ridiculous.

[Darth_Kitten]

20. Pat. Pat. There. You have pleased a man.

I'm a woman too, woo eeeee!!!!

Oh, but I guess Obama can handle the Republican attack machine, eh? It doesn't bode well for some of his supporters when their perfect idol is shown to be, gasp!, human!

[Adelante]

6. Didn't you already post this today?

[Debi]

12. well, there is the 3 post limit....

didn't say anything about posting the SAME post 3x :crazy:

[jackson_dem]

54. No. Why are Obamites obsessed with limiting discussion of St. Obama?

Do you want to change the rules again?

[JackORoses]

8. just some more of Hillary's victim talking points

She is so transparent these days.

"Please, Women vote for me! Look at the horrible Misogynists attacking me!"

[Darth_Kitten]

13. Seems like poor widdle Obama can't take ANY heat.........

awhhhh.

[JackORoses]

36. Hillary cannot accept losing. So she lies and cheats. She will still lose.

Adios Clintons!

[SoFlaJet]

11. I'm sorry but you people are really friggin ridiculous

-misogynistic attacks...get over yourselves will you?

[Darth_Kitten]

15. They look at the women in their own lives and see, well, nothing useful to them.

Very sad people.

[SoFlaJet]

24. Guess what

I'm a married man who grew up with 5 women in our hose and married a woman who gave me 2 beautiful daughters-women RULE my world

[southern_dem]

39. Thank you for telling me what's in my head n/t

[anigbrowl]

128. Yeah, I helped elect Nancy Pelosi because I hate women so much.

Some folks here are just weird.

[TheDonkey]

14. Holy Shit.

THE CLAWS KOME OUT!!!11!!!

[Carrieyazel]

16. CNN also picking up the "backlash" about the strange Obama "cult".

Obama is finally getting hit on all sides. Its about time.

[CatnHat]

83. Obama Coming From A

dysfunctional family and all, what do you expect. A man who shows lack of respect for women is no man in my book.

[Tarheel_Dem]

163. you mean the (C)linton (N)ews (N)etwork? they've been carrying

Hill's water this whole primary season. Big surprise. NOT!

[gaiilonfong]

17. NO SALE

NEXT

[Johnny__Motown]

18. A SNL skit, the word Claws and one statement I can't find a prolem with. please try again

[VolcanoJen]

19. Honestly guys... Jake Tapper Hates Democrats.

He'll go after Obama and Clinton equally, and once the nominee is chosen, he'll focus his fire on that person.

We've known Jake Tapper is no friend to progressives since at least 2002.

http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/search_results?qstring=jake+tapper

[Drunken Irishman]

21. I'm confused.

How are these sexist remarks? I've heard the claws coming out remark used against men, especially in sports -- defining a moment where a team really starts fighting. It's just another way of saying the gloves are coming off, which Hillary hinted at during one of her rallies in Ohio.

The other comment, well, I don't get it. Is there some subtle hint at sexism about Clinton at times attacking when she's down?

[southern_dem]

38. They aren't, just another example of playing the sexist card

Hypocrisy considering the flak Obama took for allegedly playing the race card. His surrogates may have, but Obama has done everything he could to keep race out of the election.

[jackson_dem]

59. Why hasn't Obama removed Jesse Jackson Jr.? Or cut down Michelle Obama's role?

His surrogates do his dirty work while he continues to pose as "transcending" race in public.

The Obama camp swiftboating the Clintons on race and caused Hillary to go from leading with blacks to 11-15%. It would be fitting if the same thing causes Obama to go to 11-15% with women. Karma is a bitch!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

96. You complain about sexism, then say "Karma's a bitch"?

:rofl:

[fishwax]

135. karma is a what now?

:wtf:

[Tarheel_Dem]

164. you just don't know when to quit do you? i want to see hill's female

supporters take you to the woodshed for that comment, but I don't think they will because you're sporting a Hill avatar. Hypocrisy..thy name is jacksondem...who knew? Open mouth...Insert foot.

[jackson_dem]

56. There are far more sexist than saying St. Obama's record is a "fairy tale" is racist

Short memories Obamites. ;)

[Drunken Irishman]

65. How so?

Please show me how these terms are sexist.

Thanks! :)

[jackson_dem]

67. Would he have used them in reference to a male opponent?

The "fairy tale" remark applies to all media darlings irrespective of color.

[Drunken Irishman]

70. Uh, they're used all the time in reference to males.

http://blog.radioleft.com/blog/_archives/2007/10/22/3306309.html

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071101/NEWS01/711010358/1043/NEWS01

A MAN talking about another fight with a MAN.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was fighting with them. I was trying to get -- I was protecting him. I don't understand -- I was trying to get them out, and then he scratched me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Hate that.

HARRIS: So obviously, the claws came out. The clothes -- wow. The clothes came off -- at McDonald's?

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711/28/cnr.02.html

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/local/lakeforest/sports/article_1676599.php

http://solo.abac.com/lubakmetyk/others/alicia/trubel28.htm

There are tons more I can post.

[Tarheel_Dem]

170. Hey! did you ever apologize to the women on this board for using

the term "bitch"? Or are they letting you slide because of your avatar? You guys are such fakes, it's mindboggling.

[hfojvt]

75. I never understood what the big deal was about that either

Plus people kept misinterpreting it as if Bill had said Obama's campaign was a fairy tale instead of the story about Obama being consistently against the war.

[hfojvt]

73. it is an example of finding meaning in what is said

Therefore if I mention the periodic table and a woman in the same paragraph, I might subtly be hinting at her period. And if I say "down doody do down down" I might subtly be hinting at PMS. Even though men can get down periodically for one reason or other, and even though men can have claws, apparently you still need to vet everything you say for some possible hidden meaning that some hack journalist might try to smear you with.

Ooops, I said smear, which is an obvious reference to a pap test.

For God's sake could we move out of the Junior high already before I claw my eyes out over the stupidity.

[Tatiana]

22. Seriously? This is the best they can do?

Maybe they better try the Rezko thing again.

[THUNDER HANDS]

23. ooooo noooooos

[tishaLA]

26. Tapper is now a legitimate source?

I'll remember that when he intentionally misrepresents Bill Clinton

[Horse with no Name]

132. He did yesterday

AND Obama supporters bought it lock, stock and barrel and VICIOUSLY attacked Clinton even when they were presented with the truth they refused to believe it. So yesterday Obamites vetted Tapper as a legit source. Sucks doesn't it?

[woolldog]

28. Why is claws sexist?

Do women have claws?

No.

Do only only females of various animal species have claws?

No.

Is having claws a feminine trait?

No.

Do males of certain species have claws?

Yes

So why is it sexist to use the word claws?

[Clovis Sangrail]

47. it's not /nt

[hiaasenrocks]

115. Because Hillary and her supporters are desperate to play victim again...and again...and again.

So the quickest way is to play the phony sexism card. That's what they did to Shuster. They'll smear anyone and everyone in their quest for power.

[Tarheel_Dem]

165. hey, it worked in New Hampshire.

playing the victim of sexism seems to garner support from some women. i don't get it, but there it is.

[boston bean]

174. using the phras playing victim is like telling someone they don't know

how they feel.

It is just wrong.

[jab105]

121. Are there any species where the female is the only one with claws? n/t

[MsMagnificent]

180. It's a standard stereotypical response

'cat fight... the claws come out'

NEVER spoken in regard to a man.

You can't rationalize it -- it IS a stupid analogy, but it still is indeed sexist!

[smoogatz]

29. Tapper again?

The stink of flop-sweat coming from the Hillary camp is almost overwhelming.

[sniffa]

30. Way to perpetuate the misogyny

Look at all the periods in the piece you're quoting :puke:

[cottonseed]

31. What's happened to the Clinton campaign?

She's skipping Wisconsin, losing her leads in Texas and Ohio, and now they're concentrating on delusional issues of misogyny and seating delegates in states only she campaigned in? I'm almost feeling sorry for them.

[Blue_In_AK]

32. I personally took a little bit of umbrage

at both those comments. It's subtle, but a touch of sexism is still there. Not enough to get me too worked up, though.

[woolldog]

33. explain please.

[Blue_In_AK]

40. It just struck me as a bit condescending.

I doubt that he would have used the same words had he been describing similar attacks and emotions by a male opponent. But I could be wrong. Maybe he would be a bit condescending to any opponent.

[woolldog]

41. ok thanks (eom)

[Blue_In_AK]

43. You're welcome.

I have no ax to grind, really. I'm just a resident trouble-maker. :)

[totodeinhere]

37. I don't see anything sexist in those remarks.

For instance, both male and female animals have claws, not just females. And the statement that he made about Senator Clinton being "down" could have been said about a man just as well as about a woman.

Now it's true that I am a man and perhaps therefore I am not as sensitive to the topic of sexism as women are. But I wish that someone could explain in more detail why either of those remarks are sexist because I just don't see it. And I doubt if many other people do either.

[unc70]

48. "periodically" down?

I was an Edwards supporter, not happy with either O or C.

But, ....

Obama uses a lot of subtle loaded language. Used it regularly against Edwards, regularly against others.

Some of it is like this example, others more like whe W tells a "joke" that really isn't a joke -- where there is a putdown of the "target". The "tell" with each of them is that the one telling the "joke" laughs first, then followed by nervous laughs from others listening. With a normal joke, the one telling usually pauses slightly to allow the audience to "get" the joke and laugh and only then responds to the audience.

[Inuca]

53. 1. she is 60; and

2. it's the periods between losing primaries. Wednesdays are not good days recently.

[pnwmom]

147. Yeah, she's postmenopausal. So what? If Obama DID do this on purpose,

the idea would be to link her with PMS and ideas that women aren't fit to have their finger on the nuclear trigger. Just a few decades ago, people would often seriously use this as an argument that women shouldn't be trusted in the Presidency.

[totodeinhere]

58. Is that the same as sexism?

Obama uses a lot of subtle loaded language. Used it regularly against Edwards, regularly against others.

Is that the same as sexism? After all, Edwards is male. So perhaps the OP should have accused Obama of using loaded language, not sexism.

[unc70]

145. Obama uses loaded language in sexist and in other contexts

There are a couple of different things that Obama does. The first is that he regularly tells "jokes" at the expense of someone else, partly as a way of establishing or reinforcing dominance. These jokes can use various personal attributes or almost anything else. Obama also uses body language and various verbal responses in ways that appear condescending and dismissive. "You're likable enough" to Clinton in the debate was an example of this.

In the case of Edwards, Obama and his campaign used various statements to plant the idea that Edwards was the candidate of white men in the South, in turn implying he or his supporters were racists.

The most-used of Obama's targets were the Baby Boomers and their excesses of the 60's, etc. This meme began well before he announced his candidacy and was part of the formal announcement. He uses the RW talking points developed by Jesse Helms in the 70's and used by him and others for and with Reagan. No Democrat should ever use that language and those attacks on another Dem. Never.

These incidents have nothing to do with the SNL skit. Nice try at deflection by some of you.

[Triana]

69. "you're too sensitive"...

"Verbal abuse attacks one’s spirit and sense of self. Verbal abuse attempts to create self doubt. "You don’t know what you’re talking about," "You don’t have a sense of humor," "You can’t take a joke," "You’re too sensitive," "You’re crazy."

http://www.verbalabuse.com/10.shtml

Now, this link refers to the use of that meme in personal relationships - however, I see the SAME TACTICS used in political campaigns - particularly when there is a woman involved. After all, they work SO WELL in personal relationships - why not use them in public political campaigns, too?

REPUBLICANS (but really most men and a lot of women) are VERY GOOD at VA tactics - both overt and covert.

The "too sensitive" meme is a common one coming from the perpetrators of that abuse (and in your case, their DEFENDERS) - and what it means is that the perpetrator of the nastiness - the person's whose MOUTH the deriding comments or "jokes" came from - is the one who needs to DEVELOP some sensitivity. But YOU want to make SOMEONE ELSE RESPONSIBLE for his personal shortcoming in that area - NOT him. So you blame the target(s) of Obama's verbal abuse for HIS insensitivity. ("YOU'RE too sensitive", you say - this is what you are implying in your post)

Now, whether you like it or not, Mr. Obama, being the oh-so "I care about you/unity/blah, blah" candidate seems to be sorely lacking in the sensitivity department. What kind of President will he make then if he cannot be sensitive to sexist language but simultaneously bristles at racist language? It certainly makes him somewhat of a hypocrite - not to mention an insensitive one. (I suppose one begets the other).

And you, an admitted man - would know nothing of any of this because you are likely more often a perpetrator of this type of verbal abuse rather than a target of it.

Lucky YOU! And I'm certain that when the target of your deriding remarks points them out as hurtful, you tell her she's "too sensitive" - for the same reason you want to use that meme on behalf of Mr. Obama. That is, to make the TARGET of insensitive, sexist, or deriding remarks responsible for the perpetator's insensitivity.

SO -- here you are with that blazing RED FLAG meme all of us who are well-versed in VA are familiar with:

"you're too sensitive"

Which is EXACTLY what your post implies.

Not surprising. . .

[totodeinhere]

81. So just because I dared to take issue with the OP,

you said that I am "likely more often a perpetrator of this type of verbal abuse rather than a target of it." So now offering my observations and opinions gets me accused of being someone who verbally abuses others. You are completely off the mark and what you said about me is completely indefensible. And BTW, you still didn't explain how either of those remarks made by Obama are sexist.

[Triana]

102. Who the HELL appointed YOU the judge, jury, and arbiter...

......of SOMEONE else's feelings?

WHAT makes YOU somehow qualified to decide FOR some others (who are apparently offended by some of Obama's remarks), whether their hurt or offended feelings are right, wrong, or justified?

There are going to be a LOT of people on this planet who have feelings that YOU don't share and feelings about things which YOU don't understand. That DOES NOT MEAN that they are obligated to justify their feelings to YOU OR that their feelings are WRONG OR that they are just "over-sensitive", as you tried to suggest.

Maybe YOU need to develop some sensitivity. Maybe you just need to be less controlling and ACCEPT that people have different feelings about things than you do - and that doesn't mean THEIRS are WRONG.

NO ONE is obligated to justify to YOU how or why Obama's remarks are sexist or offensive, Mr. Self-Important, and I'm not going to indulge your blaming, controlling and self-important NPD by attempting to do so. Whether you understand how or why his remarks are sexist or offensive or not is unimportant.

You'll just have to accept at face value that - to some people - they are. And NO ONE is obligated to justify that YOU!

HOW are you qualified in any way, shape, form or fashion TO DECIDE FOR ANY WOMAN whether her feelings or hurt, or outrage, or offense at Obama's comments (or anything ELSE for that matter), is justified or not? How are you qualified to DEFINE that FOR her - for any women?

Are you some kind of control freak?

YOU are not involved in this issue. YOU didn't make the remarks - OBAMA did. YOU are not the one offended by them, someone ELSE is.

But - here you are sticking your arse in the midst of it by DEFENDING Obama and DECIDING FOR the offended party(ies) that their offense is unjustified and DEMANDING that they are obligated to EXPLAIN TO YOU how and why their feelings are justified - as if YOU are some authority to whom they must answer for their own feelings, anger or hurt -- a losing proposition since YOU have already decided their feelings are unjustified because YOU don't agree with them. It's a SET UP by YOU - and one that they can't win.

WHO the Hell DO you think you are?

Maybe you need to just get over yourself and stop trying to control (and DEFINE as right or wrong) other people and their feelings.

Maybe stop believing that you are somehow so important and all-knowing and wise -- that just because you don't understand someone else's feelings about something - that somehow obligates them to justify theirs to you and/or that means their feelings must be wrong or unjustified.

Sheesh. Maybe. Just maybe - it's YOU - who needs a tune-up in the sensitivity department - along with Obama himself. Not to mention a truckload of two of humility and some anti-arrogance serum.

[totodeinhere]

112. I objected to your saying that I am a perpetrator of verbal abuse,

which I am not BTW, and I get a lengthly profane and name calling diatribe from you. If anything, you are the one doing verbal abuse, not me.

The OP started off this thread by saying that Obama made sexist remarks. I merely said that I don't see how Obama's remarks should be construed as being sexist, and I explained why I felt that way. I should have every right to express my opinion on this issue. That's one reason why this message board exists, so people can express opinions. And as an Obama supporter I have every right to defend him. After all, you certainly gave me a big dose of your opinion about this whole thing. So shouldn't I be allowed to do the same? And if you disagree with me I would appreciate it I you would do it civilly. Thank you.

[fishwax]

136. I don't think he'd claim a male candidate attacks "periodically, when he's feeling down."

I've seen comments similar to the claws bit being said about a candidate of either gender, but it's harder to imagine the second comment being made about a male candidate.

[Clovis Sangrail]

44. this is why people like Rush get traction with "feminazi" garbage

Obama was in a skit on SNL where he said "she's a witch"
He said "the claws come out"
He said "a way of trying to boost her appeal."

If you think that those things mean somebody is a 'misogynist' you're a caricature of zealotry.
You're not "helping the cause" you're "getting in the fuckin' way"

[ficus1]

46. The Periodic Table of Elements is misogynistic

[Bicoastal]

62. Absolutely! Notice that it's "MANganese," not Womanganese or at least Personganese?

[QC]

50. Funny, but Tapper was the Oracle at Delphi when he was attacking Hillary,

but now he appears to be just another hack.

Funny how that works.

[NJSecularist]

51. Since when is the world "claws" only unique to women?

Give me a fucking break. Some of you are determined to attempt to be outraged at everything Obama says.

GET. OVER. IT. Not everything that comes out of Obama's mouth is sexist.

Good grief, this pity party makes me sick.

Attack him on his record, not a selective "intepretation" of his words.

[Maribelle]

66. Oh please, Who in their entire life ever head 'the claws come out' in reference to a man?

'the claws come out' is a companion to 'having a cat fight' - - another saying you never hear in reference to men.

[jackson_dem]

52. Taylor Marsh makes a good point. Would Obama have said the same thing about Edwards?

"John 'periodically' gets down?" "When you attack the status quo Joe Biden's 'claws' come out?"

[NJSecularist]

55. Yes, he would say the same thing.

Enough of the false outrage. It doesn't make your candidate look any better.

[Inuca]

57. Marsh does not make any point

she is just hacking mindlessly.

[jackson_dem]

61. Would he have said the same things about a male opponent?

No? Maybe this should be our litmus test for whether something is bigoted. The Clinton "fairy tale" remark applies to any media darling irrespective of color. Clinton's statement passes as not being bigoted. Does Obama's?

[Inuca]

82. I honestly think he would have

You are of course free to disagree.

[misanthrope]

95. You do realize that most large predators have claws, right?...

...Bears, lions, tigers, crocodiles, the list goes on.

[MethuenProgressive]

80. Taylor Marsh is always fighting against sexism - that's why the Obamas hate her.

[Political Heretic]

60. THE KLAWZ!!11!! BEE AFRADIS OF DAS KLAAWzES!!!111 SERIES!@!!!1

[theHandpuppet]

68. Here's another example here on DU, courtesy of the Obama crowd

Check out the cartoon in the OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4618750

And the kind suggestion about her "beheading".

[QC]

76. At least they haven't said she's on the rag yet.

That won't come for at least another hour or two.

[Barack_America]

71. As the "race card" hurt Obama, the "gender card" too will hurt Hillary.

This will not serve her well. Your average Midwestern white guy is going to think that this is all ridiculously overblown and take it out on Hillary. It's not fair, but it's true.

[LordJFT]

72. *dismissive tone* "Jesse Jackson won here in 1984 and 1988"

[zulchzulu]

78. If this is the kind of bullshit we'd have to deal with a President Hillary whining about "sexism"...

...then this is yet another clear example why she is unfit to be President.

She and her campaign can't take a friggin' mild comment without WHINING that it's "sexist", "misogynistic"... what an absolute pathetic spin. Add that she needs her hubby to "rescue" her and you have all the makings of June Cleaver running for office in a modern World.

[George_Bonanza]

86. I'm an equal opportunity user of the terms "claws" and "periodically"

Pathetic attempt by the Clinton campaign. They can't complain anymore about the Obama surrogates blowing "Lyndon Johnson" out of proportion anymore.

[hiaasenrocks]

88. LMAO. Now the word "periodically" is on the PC "no-no" speech code list.

Keep the free comedy coming!

[sendero]

89. Anyone who can get worked up..

.. over this sort of talk could get worked up over anything.

There's just nothing there, except to the word and thought police that have almost single-handedly ruined the liberal cause by associating the good parts with idiocy.

[dana_b]

98. agreed

This is ridiculous. "The claws come out" is a commonly used term. Maybe it's the people who are so sensitive to this crap who have the real problem. By the way, if it makes a bit of difference, I'm a woman and obviously not offended.

[Auntie Bush]

90. As a womon...I find that comment very offensive and I wonder why the MSM

hasn't raked him over the coals about it. Oh, never mind...I know!

[Tarheel_Dem]

167. well of course you do.....

:eyes:

[Iceburg]

91. Hey ladies ... John McCain is looking better each and every day/nt

[GalleryGod]

105. You can't even VOTE in our effin' country....

bug out, DB:puke:

[hiaasenrocks]

92. Please explain how Amy Poehler is a "misogynist."

Thanks in advance!

[WinkyDink]

173. ANYONE can use misogynistic language.

What? You've never heard women call another a "b***h?"?

[misanthrope]

93. I heard Obama was...

...walking on two legs which is an obviously saracastic misogynist swipe at Hillary because most women walk on two legs.

[Iceburg]

94. All those years of drugs might have dulled his sensitivities/nt

[Skwmom]

108. This is really pathetic. While some women might buy into into

this bogus outrage, I'm sure many more will not.

[adapa]

131. obviously you have not worked in a male dominated job as a female

there's a *lot* of knuckle draggers out there

[ErnestoG]

138. And Obama isn't one of them. Try an attack with something intelligent.

[adapa]

177. Turn the tables, say Clinton said "you challenge the status quo and suddenly his fur comes out"

If I were a black person I'd find that reprehensible. As a woman I find the comment of claws coming out equally as reprehensible.
Jewish people get to say what is anti-simetic, African American's get to say what is raciest, woman should get to say what is sexist. Hillary didn't win in NH because we're racist, she won because the women of this state saw how the blatantly sexist the MSM is.

Just because you don't see sexism, doesn't mean it isn't there- Personaly I saw absolutly NOTHING racist about the clintons remarks in SC- AAmericans did. claimed it was code. Well, 'claws coming out' is code too. Code for Catfight- hardly a respectable thing for a presidential candidate to be portrayed as having.
You may like obama, I may like hillay be that as it may but to say sexism isn't alive & well is blind to the obvious.


Just to quote Obama's statement taken from the original post.
Earlier this month, speaking at Tulane University, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, said this about the attacks coming his way from Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY:

"You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out," Obama said.

The CLAWS come out? Really?

[AX10]

109. No suprise here.

Obama is an entrenched politico. He is nothing special. I expected him to do things like this.

[ErnestoG]

110. SNL skit. Parody. Humor. As in "not serious".

See you have to explain this stuff to the Hillar tribe. Such concepts are over their noggins.

[Beausoir]

118. Obama knows exactly what he's doing when he uses these sexist terms.

He really is as slippery as they come.

[Alexander]

120. You've got to be completely delusional to think those terms were sexist.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Beausoir]

122. They were. He uses thinly veiled code-speak to pander. He knows exactly what he is doing.

Pretty greasy.

[anigbrowl]

129. It's conspiracy theory time...

...whenever people start going on about coded messages that are supposed to be subliminally influencing the population.

[Beausoir]

149. There's nothing subliminal about Obama's sexism. He's pretty open about it.

Sexism is real. It happens. And Obama is very good at it.

[Alexander]

152. So what is it like to have paranoid delusions?

Not fun, I imagine. :shrug:

[pnwmom]

156. Is that what you tell African-Americans when they have complaints

about coded language?

Since you apparently are such an expert.

[Beausoir]

158. Sexism doesn't exist to Obamaroids. It's all a figment of our silly female brains.

Nothing to worry our pretty little heads about.

We're all just hysterical.

We need to pull our "claws" in.

We need to embrace our "periods of low" and make nice.

'Cause that's what Obama says we women should do.

[pnwmom]

161. Did you notice that Obama said that HRC's call for another debate was "silly"?

It's getting harder and harder to believe that he's not doing this on purpose.

[ErnestoG]

140. Can I pass you some tin foil? I can make it into a nice swan for your head.

[Alexander]

151. Please. "Obama's like Jackson", "Obama dealt drugs" and "Obama's a Muslim" is code speak.

All of those things, by the way, were said by Hillary surrogates, people on her payroll.

This is not. Most normal people (i.e., not insane or compulsive liars) use "periodically" and "claws" when referring to either gender. You want to talk about code speak? There's plenty of racist drivel the Shillbots and Hillary surrogates have spewed. This is nothing.

[pnwmom]

157. It gave me a jolt to hear him make that "periodically" statement.

I'm afraid he did know what he was doing. He's only 5 years younger than I am, so he's old enough to remember when women's periods were considered a barrier to their being President.

Apparently many people here are too young to know that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

168. you want to talk slick? you need look no further than Slick Willie

see we both can be insulting of people we dislike. doesn't move the debate any further, but it makes you feel good for a moment. You guys are pathetic. There may be other things that might derail Obama's presidential bid, but this for sure won't be it.

Why don't you guys dredge up McClurkin & Rezko again, that worked so well that Obama has now taken the lead nationally. Get over yourself.

[TreasonousBastard]

123. OH SHIT! I'm changing my vote! (If I could...

remember who I changed it to the last time I saw such outrage at someone).

[Horse with no Name]

126. ABC is NOT our friend

Not one fucking Obama supporter called them down on their attack on Bill Clinton yesterday.
But now it's a big deal.
Something about reaping and sowing comes to mind...

[adapa]

130. Obama's comments are most assuradly sexist- how can anyone think the stements are *not* sexist?

This is a typical male way of marginalizing women. I'm sick of it,

I'll admit I didn't understand the big deal about the race thing in SC but I sure as hell understand the sexist, degrading talk coming out of Mr. Obama mouth.

I betcha tho- only woman understand this one, men are flatly incapable of seeing beyond their own noses.
Ok ok, not all men. But by these comments, Mr. Obama certainly is incapable. I hope Ms. Obama takes him out behind the wood shed on that huge booboo.

[ErnestoG]

141. "Typical male"? Stereotype much?

[Alexander]

153. Nah. Sexism is okay as long as it's against those eeeeevil men.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[adapa]

176. I clearly stated I was generalizing-however by marginalizing sexism-you become the problem

Just like I was incapable of understanding the racism issue in SC, by your statements you have proved you incapable of seeing the rampant disrespecting of women that takes place in our country.

[Skip Intro]

133. I posted what I think was the only thread on it over a week ago. Long thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4468960

[Moochy]

134. change "picks up" to "makes up"

[NoodleyAppendage]

142. ABC doing the bidding of their NEOCON overlords at Disney. n/t

J

[Thrill]

154. You know he must be doing well. When this is the best they can come up with.

WEAK

[DDQ]

166. Of course his comments were calculated

and insulting to women.

Maybe he thinks we are not smart enough to understand.

Maybe he believes that women will vote for him regardless of his comments.

Maybe he thinks it will help him win.

[Tarheel_Dem]

169. maybe you're delusional? (eom)

[DDQ]

171. I didn't expect a mature response

[Tarheel_Dem]

172. and when you reread your o.p. it shouldn't be difficult to figure out why

[NJmaverick]

175. When do the networks pick up on Hillary's racist attacks

Oh wait, I am suppose to think the media is anti-Hillary and pro-Obama. How totally misgynistic not to think like Hillary and her supporters have told me to think.