Hillary drives another nail into her Texas coffin

[thevoiceofreason]

In a speech yesterday, Hillary informed her audience in Wisconsin that she supported a windfall profits tax.

OK folks, this might play well in Wisconsin or elsewhere, but this is a vile and hated subject in Texas. Largely as a result of the windfall profits tax begun in the late 1970's, the domestic oil and gas energy crashed in the early-mid 1980's, sending Texas into a 5 year recession. The problems with the windfall profits tax are legion, so I will only address a few:

1. The ExxonMobil's of the world can handle the tax without a blink. On the other hand, it cripples the little DOMESTIC producers, you know, the ones who are focused on increasing DOMESTIC production, who bear the comparatively high costs of putting the little stripper wells back on line, etc.

2. The windfall profits tax is levied not only on the producers (no matter their size), but also the royalty owner -- whether that be the farmer struggling to keep her farm, the small town shop owner lucky enough to inherit a little royalty sliver while they are trying to refinance their ARM, etc. Nice set of folks to tax.

3. If you are taxing domestic oil production with a windfall profits tax, YOU ARE NOT TAXING FOREIGN PRODUCTION. How backwards is that? Making it comparatively worse for or harder on domestic hydrocarbon producers while those who import foreign oil escape the tax?

Texans recoil when they hear the phrase "windfall profits tax." HRC really goofed on this one.

[geiger]

1. interesting observation. thanks.

[lligrd]

2. She's Right On This Issue

and Texas will likely not vote Dem in the GE anyway.

[thevoiceofreason]

6. That's right, let's hurt the little outfit

[Fredda Weinberg]

12. Collecting royalties on their land? They're not all little outfits and this

is a tax on their receipts. Should only laborers worry about taxes?

[babylonsister]

9. Why is she right? nt

[earthlover]

27. Helllooooo.....Hillary needs to win BIG in Texas....

Not exactly good timing to pass off Texas as a Red State that doesn't count anyway....

Oh, forget it....continue on as you were! Go for it!

[Divernan]

3. Forward that info to all the Texas papers which have endorsed Sen. Obama.

Give them another fact to share with their readers!

[Divernan]

4. Obama should bring that up in the next debate.

nt

[Iceburg]

14. And that is why Obama would not choose you to be his campaign manager..

I hate to help you kids out but the debates are about appealling to the masses not the "fortunate" few.
If Hillary said that in a debate -- she'd receive resounding applause.

[TomInTib]

5. No kidding. Ain't no backfire gonna stop that one.

I wonder which idiot wrote that into her speech.

This will spread through Texas like a fart in an elevator.

[bbinacan]

7. That was not a smart thing to do.

Boy is she out of touch. I can tell you first hand as one who does land acquisition for pipelines in the Barnett Shale area (near Ft. Worth), this will be received as warmly as a case of the clap.

[thevoiceofreason]

11. Houston here

Wow. Open mouth, insert foot.

[bbinacan]

16. No kidding.

Many of the landowners I deal with have natural gas wells. This will not make them happy at all.

[TexasObserver]

20. And VOR's point is well taken. This will hurt Hillary with the white, older, rural demos

the ones she needs in Texas to get areas that she should win

It's almost impossible to explain to outsiders and other Dems why the oil business is not some monolithic beast. If they only knew that it's all those real oilmen the big oil companies are constantly screwing. It's a theme that says anyone in oil is evil.

It's like telling Midwest farmers there's going to be a windfall tax on corn or soy beans. They're thinking "so now I have to see my profits in good years gone because you want to punish the Big Ag conglomerates that screw us already?!"

[bbinacan]

28. Exactly!

Many speak of something they no nothing about. They only see Exxon. They don't see the others (voters) effected.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. quit picking on Hillary, she's just a politician trying to do her job

and you are being mean.

This may cause her to cry in Wisconsin, or Ohio, or Texas where there are more
mean people.

[Mojambo]

I agree with her, but the OP is right. Tough sell down there

She probably should have shelved that comment for the GE.

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. Sounds like there are few royalty collectors ... a lot more of us want

a sound energy policy. Let's see how the principle plays out.

[Marie26]

13. Oh no, a windfall profits tax? What will Exxon think?

I thought progressives all wanted a windfall profits tax in order to stop the price-gouging & profiteering. But now that Clinton's advocating it, it's a bad thing.

[thevoiceofreason]

17. How about maybe a tax on imported oil only?

That could accomplish the same thing (raising revenue) while simultaneously discouraging oil imports. But wait, that would be logical.

The problem with either approach is that it is a tax on a raw material that will, not may, but will, be passed directly to the consumer as an increase in the price.

[Marie26]

23. That's a Republican principle

I think it's funny how people will start arguing for a Republican position as long as it's anti-Hillary. Repukes are against windfall taxes because they say it'll be passed down to the consumer, etc. etc. Meanwhile the oil companies are reaping absolute record profits while consumers get gouged at the pump. They raise prices on consumers in order to increase their astronomical profits, knowing that there's nothing consumers can do. And they've had total freedom to do this under the Bush Adm. What was Exxon's profits last year? $10 billion? They can pay some of that back - I'm sure they'll manage just fine w/a $8 billion profit margin. By the way, your hero, Barack Obama also supports a windfall profits tax. Most Democrats do.

[TexasObserver]

29. Everyone agrees we should maximize domestic production of existing wells.

Our political positions should reflect that.

[jsamuel]

21. Another attack on Clinton FROM THE RIGHT to protect Obama.

[K Gardner]

25. Do you even realize how foolish this sounds? Strains credulity.

[jsamuel]

26. Obama also attacks UHC from the RIGHT to protect himself.

[thevoiceofreason]

31. Many folks in the oilfield are democrats

I guess we comprise another group (like the inconsequential states) that HRC will just ignore.

[jsamuel]

33. Progressives have been pushing for a windfall profits tax on oil companies for years.

[shraby]

38. My parents had an oil well in Michigan and

they lost money because of the windfall tax. The big companies stiff the person they pay for the oil and take the tax out of the payment they make to the person who actually owns the oil well.

[DURHAM D]

44. Aren't you talking about the state of Michigan's wellhead tax -

its not the same thing.

[shraby]

52. Nope, the oil company took

deductions out of their check before they paid them and it wasn't a state tax they took.

[TexasObserver]

15. I thought exactly the same thing when she said "those two oilmen"

The big oil companies are bandits. They don't find the oil. They don't drill the spec wells. Don't don't bring it out of the ground. They don't run stripper wells, which recover oil from wells that far past their prime. They let real oil men and women do that, then buy up chunks of same.

If you want to attack the problem, you stop the business of giving foreign operations any kind of tax benefits at all. You reward domestic efforts that environmentally sound. You reward domestic efforts at upgrading domestic plants and uses of green fuels.

I have no love lost for the big oil operations, but let's aim at the target, not the guy standing over to the side.

[thevoiceofreason]

19. Well said

This is my business, along with another 200,000 folks in Houston. We all watch this stuff closely.

[tammywammy]

22. Good point

:)

[jaysunb]

18. Another issue that we could resolve if........

we had the kind of leadership that could listen and would be heard by both sides.

Sen Clinton is not that leader, but in her current role as Senator, she would be the go to person to put the deal together, quietly and out of the spotlight, in conjunction with someone from the right she gets along with.

Anyway, I'll bet Obama's ad camp is very busy as we speak. :thumbsup:

[Cha]

24. No worries...hilary will adjust her rhetoric

for Texas unless George Lopez gets ahold of this!

[babylonsister]

32. You wouldn't happen to have an address for him?

:evilgrin:

[Cha]

34. I wish! But, searching found this..

"In this year's fight for the White House, the Texas vote is ... well ... as big as Texas....

... Obama supporters gathered Saturday to prepare for the endorsement of comedian George Lopez. "It turns out that Senator Obama is a fan of George Lopez, and they talked and George agreed to help him do everything he could, especially here in Texas," Lopez spokesperson Christy Haubegger said." :evilgrin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/16/comedian-george-lopez-end_n_87042.html

[babylonsister]

36. Living in TX, I knew about that; I think it was on the news here.

Apparently Lopez is very popular around these parts.

[Cha]

39. We knew it about last night, sure..but,

the part I underlined where George makes it clear he will.. "do everything he could especially here in Texas" is what caught my eye. In pertaining to hilary's rhetoric on "windfall profits tax". :)

[Az_lefty]

47. George Lopez is endorsing Obama???? I love it!!!!

nice work George...

[Cha]

51. For you!

thevoiceofreason (592 posts) Sat Feb-16-08 05:41 PM
Original message
Comedian George Lopez officially announces Barack endorsement in Houston
In a phone-in to a crownd of 100's at the Houston HQ, George Lopez said Barack Obama was the best man to represent the interests of hispanics. He stated that he intended to campaign some for Sen. Obama over the next week, adding that he felt he would have a larger impact in El Paso than Hillary.

Apparently, he also announced his backing at an appearance in Denver last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4619663

[earthlover]

30. Hillary=Out Of Touch

Doesn't have a clue, except that she somehow knows that her corporate friends won't suffer much

[DB1]

37. HRC never in touch, loves power though.

[loveangelc]

35. I hope Obama makes an issue of it in the TX debate :)

[aquarius dawning]

45. yeah, I'd love to get him on record supporting oil company profits.

That works real well with his whole "change" meme.

[Iktomiwicasa]

40. Oopsie....

Talk about a colossal blunder going into Texas for a primary.....

[LiveLiberally]

41. a recent article on Exxon profits discussing Obama's & Clinton's views on windfall taxes

(it's mentioned near the end)

http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2008/02/01/exxons-profits-measuring-a-record-windfall.html

So apparently, Clinton's position is longstanding & not just recently introduced in a speech. It is fascinating how these issues can play so differently state-by-state.

[thevoiceofreason]

43. But she raised it specifically -- now -- right before Texas

And, as I had understood, Barack does not go there, but focuses on other federal tax breaks the industry receives.

[DURHAM D]

42. What a crock.

The early 80s "depression" in the oil producing states was not caused by the windfall profits tax.

Perhaps you can convince the folks in Texas this is a true statement but the people in Oklahoma have already shown they don't buy bull shit. Surely people in Texas are not that stupid.

[thevoiceofreason]

49. Hillary didn't ever say to the Oklahoma voters that she would kick in the WPT

They would have run her out of town. I have more clients in Oklahoma than Texas. Many good dems. Why don't you explain to the good people here how the windfall profits tax is a good thing to the average Oklahoma citizen.

This ought to be good.

And by the way, there were a crush of things that led to the oilfield crash in the 1980's. A big part of it was the WPT because the producers shut down the marginal wells a lot earlier than they otherwise would have, and the mid-majors bailed out of domestic production because of it (look at OXY's activities and focus during that time frame). As a result, there was a tremendous drop in domestic activity, killing the service industries first, which then made the producers' decision to just look abroad that much easier.

And, even though I am a Longhorn, I will pass on this newest version of the Red River rivalry.

[ErnestoG]

46. This is something that always helps Obama - Hillary's gun pointed at her foot...

BANG.

[dkf]

48. Thanks for the insight.

Very interesting.

[mkultra]

50. hilary is way off base with this

Dynamic taxes are stupid. Its much cleaner to just drop the corporate welfare and put in competition insuring regulations.

if your going to windfall you might just want to price cap instead.