Let the People Decide the Nominee? Obama is up 703,830 Democratic Votes in the Popular vote Total

[MadBadger]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

Taylor Marsh is a Paid Clinton Hack who obviously doesnt know her head from her ass. You count ACTUAL votes, not Exit Poll Data. Who the hell would do that besides a Paid Clinton Hack? Obama is also up about 400,000 votes when you count Florida. And when you count Michigan, he's still up by at least 50,000 votes and he wasnt even on the ballot!!!

Popular Vote 9,534,440 8,830,610
Popular Vote (w/FL) 10,110,654 9,701,596

[Ravy]

1. I think there is a distinction of "Democratic" votes that you are missing.

I think they took out votes from independents and repubs, however they tried to figure that out.

Different stats, both interesting.

[MadBadger]

2. No, she is counting exit poll data.

[Ravy]

4. The exit poll data of people who are identifed as Democrats

at least, that is the way I read it.

Total votes include votes from independents and republicans.

Hillary has been doing better among voters who identify themselves as Democrats. Obama has been doing better overall when independents and republicans are counted in.

[MadBadger]

7. We have rules. The will of the people cannot be decided based on exit polls

Thats just horseshit. We count the democratic voters by who is ACTUALLY voting and what numbers ACTUALLY come in. Exit Polls are known to be wrong.

[Ravy]

10. Horseshit or not, it is a factor that some perhaps want to consider.

You can't equate people voting in the Democratic primary as being Democrats since some states allow republicans and independents to vote in the Democratic primary.

I am not saying it is a correct stat, or a good stat, I was trying to explain the disparity in the your numbers and theirs. You are measuring different things.

[Obamaniac]

36. Is there any wonder that Hillary fares so poorly with independents?

So is this the new thing from the Clinton campaign?

Here we are doing our best to encourage independents to come out and vote for us, and when they do we tell them that their votes don't matter?

So what are up to now with the Clintons? The caucuses don't matter because activists are the deciding factor; The south doesn't matter because blacks vote overwhelmingly; red states don't matter because they're probably not going to vote for us anyway; now independents don't matter, either?

How does this woman think she's going to win the general election?

Who gives a shit if they aren't Democrats. They vote IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES. That makes them Democrats. Any independent who takes the time out to vote in a primary election will certainly continue to support the candidate they voted for. After all, if they wanted to vote for McCain they could have done so by voting in the Republican primary. Instead they chose to vote for one of our guys and now Hillary says it doesn't matter.

The Clinton campaign sickens me to my very core.

If by some strange miracle Hillary pulls this off and wins the nomination, she will have absolutely destroyed any chance of winning the General Election. Have any of you ever seen a worse run campaign in your life? If her name wasn't Hillary Clinton she wouldn't even be viable at this point.

[jackson_dem]

13. How else do we separate rethug/indie votes for Obama from Democratic votes?

The will of rethugs or Democrats? Is this the Democratic Party or the Joe Lieberman "Independent Democrat" Party Obama is running for?

[tekisui]

5. Indys for Obama, and moderate pukes is an even more powerful

stat. That is very good news for the Democrats, should he become the Nominee.

[Ravy]

6. Absolutely! If they stick with him, and many, many will.

But I think the confusion over the numbers is the other person is arguing that in the Democratic Primary, votes from Democrats are an important stat for the Super Delegates to consider.

[paulk]

8. is it?

that would only be true if you were sure they were going to vote for him in the GE, instead of just trying to influence who our nominee is.

I'm not convinced that Republicans and/or Independent voters should have a say in picking the Democratic nominee.

[tekisui]

9. I can see a small handful of pukes trying to influence the vote.

But the Indys and jaded, fed-up pukes are there for the right reasons. I don't have a problem with open Primaries, Dem turnout is still up on the pukes nearly 2:1. The Democrats are still a huge majority of the voters voting for Obama and Clinton.

Those trying to influence the vote for nefarious reasons are not a significant percentage and would not change the outcome.

[jackson_dem]

15. Rethugs voted for Jackson in 1988 and George Wallace in 1972 in Dem primaries

Why do you think they did that? They liked them or wanted to nominate a candidate almost certain to lose in the general?

[NJSecularist]

18. Proof?

Do you have proof of your assertion?

[tekisui]

19. Look at the percentages, this year. The pukes aren't there in enough

numbers to effect the Primary.

[jackson_dem]

27. They are a factor when the overall vote is 51-49 with Florida and 52-47 without it

Given the slim overall national popular vote the fact rethugs overwhelmingly go for Obama is a big part, perhaps decisive, in him having the overall lead. It is also a mistake to ignore the fact 90% of "independents" consistently vote for one party. If we assume a 50/50 split, that means 45% of the "independents" voting are basically rethugs who like the ego boost claiming to be "independent" gives them. These people voted for Bush twice.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Looks like Obama may lead in the popular vote by the time we get to Denver

which is why Hillaryland is now saying that superdelegates should make a separate decision independent of the voters and appoint the nominee, meaning Hillary.

[tekisui]

11. He leads in popular vote now, and will only cushion it to the Convention.

Hillary will pull out all the stops, including trying to seat FL and MI and strongarming the superdelegates.

None of it will be enough.

[jackson_dem]

16. Ironic to see a Green saying we should nominate based on rethug and "independent" votes

Why don't we just disband the party and hand it over to the rethugs directly?

[jackson_dem]

12. The OP is false and should be edited. Obama's lead comes from rethug and indie votes

He is losing among Democrats but he wins rethugs and "independents" overwhelmingly, hence his slim advantage in total votes.

[MadBadger]

14. How do you know that? Do you have any FACT based knowledge that backs that up?

Cuz until you do, he is winning among DEMOCRATIC voters.

[jackson_dem]

17. He is LOSING Democratic voters and Marsh is right

I look at exit polls from many states. He almost always loses Democrats but always wins rethugs and independents big. That is where his margin comes from. Let's look at the exits state by state...

[MadBadger]

20. If we blindly trusted the data from Exit polls and used that as Our info, whod be president?

I believe John Kerry would now wouldnt he.

[Ravy]

23. Probably Gore, really. And rightfully so. nt

[jackson_dem]

25. How else do we determine who is a rethug voter?

The only way the Obamite argument can be correct is if every poll in the world is wrong. It isn't just exits which show Obama leading big with rethugs and "independents" but Hillary winning Democrats.

[NJSecularist]

22. Both Hillary and Obama need independent support to win the GE

That is a fact.

[Ravy]

21. Post anything until someone can factually prove it false?

How about posting headlines that you can factually believe to be true?

I expected more from you, hnmnf. I will take that under consideration before clicking on any more of your posts.

[MadBadger]

24. I am going by the COUNTED vote. Not by some exit poll data that would have made Kerry President.

[Ravy]

26. Then, IMHO, you should change your OP title to ACTUAL votes.

That is accurate.

Your numbers are good.

[MadBadger]

28. They voted in the Democratic Primary. They are democratic voters.

That doesnt mean they are in the Democratic party, but they voted in our primary, and are democratic votes for that reason.

[Ravy]

29. Whatever. But if someone posts that Hillary is back to 60% of the black vote,

and you call 'em on it, I will be posting this tread back to you *grin*.

Good luck!


:toast:

[tbyg52]

30. If the superdelegates (what a name!) override the will of the people....

Well just :nuke:

[dana_b]

31. then they'll go against what the will of the people

and Hillary may not like that!!

"We are a very different country than we were 200 years ago," Clinton said. "I believe strongly that in a democracy, we should respect the will of the people and to me, that means it's time to do away with the Electoral College and move to the popular election of our president."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/10/politics/main248645.shtml

[NMMatt]

34. They won't and that is a fact. They have the right to, but they won't. -nt

[dailykoff]

32. Thanks, this is getting surreal.

nt

[intaglio]

33. Let's follow the logic

1) You should be counting only Democratic party members in the Primaries
2) The only reliable way of doing that is to allow only Democratic party members to vote
3) Secret GOP supporters and independents will want to join
4) How do you keep out deceptive voters? By having them approved?
5) Who approves?
6) Local parties officially acknowleged by the central Democratic Party organisation
7) and onwards until about ...

13)Eventually you get to a self appointed structure that cannot change and doesn't let outsiders in

[quantass]

35. Obama is AMAZING! He didn't even campaign in FL nor MI

[KittyWampus]

37. well that's almost a million :)

[CorpGovActivist]

38. .