If Clinton is attempting to call Obama out on general election financing SHE IS SCARED TO DEATH

[wndycty]

Its simple. She thought she was inevitable. Her campaign, her supporters sought to demoralize the supporters of other candidates (noth just Obama) by acting like her nomination was a done deal. Well guess what it isn't.

Her getting involved in this campaign financing issue is a damn admission that she knows she is going down and she has this "if I ain't going to be president no Democrat is" attitude. We know that McCain is going to use this angle, but her getting involved gives McCain the ability to use her words against Obama.

This taking sides with McCain is just fucked up. She wants to destroy Obama whether or not she gets the nomination. Should Obama get the nomination Hillary has basically taken a stance that makes it impossible for her to support him.

Hillary Clinton for President: BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

[Cha]

1. Yeah, mccain can try and use

hilary's words against Obama but hilary's words are getting to be known as empty cries of desperation.

I can see the clinton's war room..."okay, give it to me..what dirt sticks?"

[FARAFIELD]

4. Yeah good luck with that one

Obama may take a small hit, but Id rather be sitting on 200 mill in the general than keeping something that (didnt sound like a promise to me) to mccain. Mccain couldnt hope to raise that much money in a million years. He will see himself skewered on his campaign finance thingy.

[dogman]

2. I think you are wrong about this.

Her inevitability was a creation of the M$M. Her point is whether Obama can be trusted to keep his word. That is a point the Obama campaign has repeatedly challenged her with. If McCain sticks to the pledge why wouldn't Obama? Talk about destruction, every RW hit on the Clintons has been echoed from the Obama campaign for a long time now.

[wndycty]

5. Has anyone confirmed he even made the pledge. . .

. . .folks are saying he made the pledge, he says he said he would think about it. Before people, especially Hillary, accuse Obama of going back on his word I want to know what his word was. Is there video? Is there a written statement? Not saying I know that he didn't go back on his word, but for us to take McCain and Hillary's word for it is kind of ridiculous.

[dogman]

14. I only know what is reported.

It might not be true, but here is the evidence presented.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021503193.html
Snip>AS RECENTLY as November, Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) was unequivocal about whether he would agree to take public financing for the general election if his Republican opponent pledged to do the same. "If you are nominated for president in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?" the Midwest Democracy Network asked in a questionnaire. Mr. Obama's answer was clear. "Yes," he wrote. "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."<snip

There is more info available.

[wndycty]

20. He talked abour pursuing an agreement. . .

. . .which to me means, he is open to the public financing but he gave himself an out if they cannot come to an agreement. I read somewhere that there is a concern that McCain will rely on 527's to do his dirty work. He is not going to make a decision without negotiating with McCain. I'm not an expert here but it seems like he has given himself some wiggle room.

It does not sound like a simple black/white (no pun intended) issue. If an agreement must be pursued there must be some wiggle room. He has not said he is going to forgo public financing its seems as though he is keeping his options open.

Again, at this point to act like Obama is going back on his word does not fly. I can see why McCain wants to push this issue, but I think its really disgusting that Clinton is.

I go back to my OP, Clinton is desperate.

[dogman]

26. Sounds like old time political posturing to me.

No real change. Obama could use 527's also, but it would make sense to negotiate terms. Both sides are helping McCrazy at the rate they have been going. Since the GOP race has been decided, I believe you are correct that the Clinton campaign would want to head off the GOP stampede to vote for Obama in an effort to stop the Hannity SHE efforts. This will be their biggest challenge in Texas. They need the GOPers to pissed to crossover to Obama since their candidate is set.

[creeksneakers2]

31. No candidate can do anything about 527s

They are independent organizations outside of candidate control. Nor should any candidate try to stifle 527s. They have every right to enter into the public debate.

McCain is already offering to take public financing so there isn't that much for Obama to negotiate. Obama's first statement indicated he would accept public financing if the Republican did. McCain is accepting it and Obama is backing off.

I hope Obama doesn't take the public financing. But this is about him going back on his word.

[wndycty]

42. Well there are also other issues like:

Advertising during the conventions. Once Obama, or Hillary for that matter, is the nominee and if either uses public financing that window of usage kicks in immediately after the convention.

Meaning any Democratic advertising that takes place between the Republican and Democratic conventions comes out of the $85 million, but any advertising for McCain can come out of primary funds.

[TheDoorbellRang]

34. check this out, wndycty

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4627299&mesg_id=4635190

This story is much ado about nothing. Obama's not saying anything differently than he's said before -- we've just entered a new spin cycle.

[FARAFIELD]

7. From what I saw

He didnt say he would he said he would meet with the nominee if he was the nominee and discuss it, pretty simple, my guess is that meant public funds if they didnt let 529's run AND no adds after the dem convention and before the Republican, I would actually be ok with that. On the other hand lets face it OBAMA can smoke mccain (so could hillary probably) in raising cash. And every hour mccain is pinned down raising money its less thime he has on the trail.

[Enrique]

13. her inevitablility was a myth then, and so is her doom now

it wasn't over then, and it isn't over now.

[K Gardner]

17. Its just a tad bit ironic that HRC has the gall to even deem to talk of "broken pledges".. see

Exhibit A: Michigan and Florida.

[dogman]

19. I don't believe she campaigned there.

[wndycty]

22. Yeah but the decision to leave her name on the ballot in Michigan is very telling. . .

. . .there is no logical reason for her to have left her name on the ballot.

[dogman]

27. She wasn't playing to Iowa.

It was a bad strategy. Obama's Iowa win was worth it to him, unless the disenfranchisement of MI and FL voters becomes as important as it should be.

[Cha]

21. No, everyone in hilaryland

believed it would be over by Feb 5th on Super Tues..there's a video of it..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4636361

[dogman]

28. That doesn't mean they believed it.

I have yet to see a campaign vow to lose.

[Cha]

30. Callin' 'em liars now? Well, you'd

be right! I know you have your blinders on but I'm putting this out here anyway for anyone who doesn't and wants to read..

<snips>

"For the many people in and around Washington who obsess over the latest machinations in Hillaryland, the firing of Solis Doyle—and she was fired, several insiders confirm—is a big deal, but for reasons somewhat different from what the media coverage has suggested. Her title of “campaign manager” implies a loftier role than the one she actually played. She is the furthest thing from a Rove-like strategic genius (Mark Penn inhabits that role for Hillary), so her leaving doesn’t signify an impending change of strategy, as some reports seem to assume. Rather, Solis Doyle, who began as Clinton’s personal scheduler in 1991 (and who, as it happens, coined the term “Hillaryland”) was Clinton’s alter ego and was installed in the job specifically for that reason. Her performance in Clinton’s past races and especially in this one reflects all the good and the bad that the alter-ego designation carries. I’ve always felt that the most revealing thing about Solis Doyle is her oft-repeated line: “When I’m speaking, Hillary is speaking.” It is revealing both because it is true and because it conveys—and even flaunts—an arrogance that I think is the key to understanding all that has gone wrong for the Clinton campaign.

Such arrogance led directly to the idea that Clinton could simply project an air of inevitability and be assured her party’s nomination. If she wins—as she very well might—it will be in spite of her original approach. As one former Clinton staffer put it to me last spring: “There was an assumption that if you were a major donor and wanted to be an ambassador, go to state dinners with the queen—unless you were an outright fool, you were going to go with Hillary, whether you liked her or not. The attitude was ‘Where else are they going to go?’”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4568468

[dogman]

36. No blinders here.

But if you really believe Obama represents change, you are also disillusioned. It's all politics, nothing new about it. The message is the same. The same game is being played on the super-delegates by Obama now.

[saltpoint]

3. As some on DU have suggested, the difficulty with Hillary Clinton's

campaign is not Hillary Clinton but her husband's political chums from the 90s -- those hangers-on who appear to have a disproportional influence on how the campaign presents the candidate.

It could be that Sen. Clinton is trusting them and has a blind spot built up around that core trust which somehow keeps defaulting to Bill's 90s chums and does not leave room or option for fresher perspectives.

What I feel is at fault in her relying on these guys may not be her perception. But I'm not the only one who thinks so, and her once-inevitable polling is well down and Senator Obama is even or slightly ahead.

Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is a much stronger candidate, IMO, without her husband in tow and especially without Mark Penn in the campaign headquarters. She should ask both of them to chill out and replace them with new blood, fresher minds, and more innovative thinkers, and make a BIG deal of the switch, and move on from there.

I like her better without Bill and Penn etc. As long as they're at the picnic, I don't want to show up.

[K Gardner]

12. Excellent post from a sage political mind.. I like the way you think, OC !

:hi:

[saltpoint]

16. I'm blushing away in my jammies, K Gardner.

:hug: :blush: :yourock:

[IndianaGreen]

18. It is Hillary's campaign, and she is responsible for what happens within it.

Unless she is like Bush, who never takes responsibility for anything, and never admits he made a mistake.

[saltpoint]

48. In the bold lettering, that's true. But in the subtle shifts of influence

and power in political campaigns, there are often blind spots.

I'm arguing for the possibility that she has a logistical blind spot and that it has weakened her case.

In the main I'm suggesting that she is stronger on her own two feet than in the shadow of her husband's legacy and in the company of her husband's political pals.

[JimGinPA]

6. How Could Anyone In Her Camp Have Thought That Was A Good Idea?

:puke:

[TexasObserver]

8. taking sides with McCain

Now she's running as McCain Lite.

the same bad ingredients, with a third less calories!!

[angie_love]

10. Yup I heard that Wolfson said that and also Lannie Davis.

I watched Lannie Davis bashing Obama relentlessly today and I wondered how someone could be so cruel to their fellow democrat. It was amazing to me. They are acting as if Obama is the republican challenger. I can't say I'm surprised, but I think its shameful how their treating a fellow democrat. They're going too far siding with McCain. I bet Hillary would vote for McCain if Obamas the nominee, thats how much I think she despises him now.

[wndycty]

11. Vote for McCain? Hell she will probably be his running mate.

:kick:

[TexasObserver]

15. Lanny Davis ... WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!!

World's Biggest Shill, too.

[creeksneakers2]

35. When have Obama supporters ever given a pair of worn out

socks over Hillary's chances in the general election? They've attacked her without mercy. Now all of a sudden its helping McCain is she attacks him but OK if Obama attacks her.

[thoughtcrime1984]

39. Huh?? This is about Hil teaming up with a Repub AGAINST

Obama. I don't recall any Obama supporters advocating that he team up with a Republican to trash Hillary. I think it is sadly obvious that she wants McCain to win the Presidency, just so she can run again in 4 years. Pathetic, ridiculous, sad, I am now reconsidering any support for her if she somehow is the nom. If she wants to be a Repub, she can go the LIEberman route and get out of our party. I eagerly await her exit from this race, but I know the damage path of Hurricane Hillary may just be commencing.

[creeksneakers2]

43. Yeah they team up together

Obama supporters and right wingers created the "Bill Clinton is a racist" propaganda. They use the same attacks all the time.

[still_one]

9. It is a non-issue, and people could care less. What people want is more steroid investigations

That of course was a joke. What people want is someone to deal with the Economy, Iraq, and things that directly affect them

Hillary is NOT going to destroy Barrack because of this, and if mccain makes too big of an issue of it, I can see ads with him and the keating five, during the S&L crisis

We have so much garbage on mccain, this means nothing. Keep telling people we should stay in Iraq for 100 years, that MEANS SOMETHING

[high density]

23. This public financing argument is the dumbest thing

Why would we want to kneecap ourselves like that? Money is on our side this time around, if McCain can't float it then that's his problem, not ours. Let's beat them at their own game.

[ErnestoG]

24. This is what comes with the entitlement complex.

[JackORoses]

25. once again she attacks him for something she would never even consider

She would never accept Public funding.

But suddenly Barack's a liar for not committing to something in a GE that isn't even here yet.

She has run out of ammo and is now borrowing McCain's.

If she keeps this up, the Repukes won't have anything to throw at Obama in the GE.

[babylonsister]

29. Her tactics show how important the Dem party is. It was never about us,

but all about her and Bill, from 2000. If I'm wrong, I wish someone would prove it.

[NMMatt]

38. You are not wrong

More and more people see this. Even former Clinton supporters like Ezra Klein and Matthew Iglesias.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. But don't you know?

They're going to be on the ticket together! Hillary/Obama! Or is it, Obama/Hillary!



And when you're finished looking at that, I've got this brochure here - see that bridge? Well, I've been authorized to sell that bridge for just $10,000 US dollars!

[Political Heretic]

33. This is such a non-issue.

[thoughtcrime1984]

40. It IS an issue, if Hillary wants to be a traitor against the Democratic Party

She needs to watch herself, this is NOT the Clinton Party.

[Perry Logan]

37. I think you've worn out the "Hillary is scared" fantasy. It's got little holes in it.

Think twice about claiming you can read someone's mind.

[Onlooker]

41. Campaign finance is a valid issue

While for most of us it's more important to win than play fair, campaign finance is certainly a valid issue. Using only public funds and doing what's possible to block 527s would make elections far more fair and honest, so Clinton is using this issue as a way to question Obama's integrity. After all, Obama has certainly raised various issues (like IWR) to question her integrity. Clearly, by raising this issue, she's not trying to woo the many diehard Obama supporters -- she's written them off since they will rationalize everything he does and criticize everything she does (as any zealot would) -- she's trying to raise questions about Obama to woo undecided voters.

[Barack_America]

46. So is releasing Tax Returns.

Don't we have the right to know where her money is coming from, particularly considering she has now used it to finance her campaign?

(thanks to ProSense for the reminder of this important issue)

[Onlooker]

47. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. n/t

[rodeodance]

44. Another Obamacamper making illogical jumps in "logic" YAWN

wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Feb-17-08 10:21 PM
Original message
If Clinton is attempting to call Obama out on general election financing SHE IS SCARED TO DEATH

[backscatter712]

45. "Cowards die many times before their deaths...

The valiant never taste of death but once." as Shakespeare put it.

Seriously, Clinton and her supporters need to realize they're not going to get far with these endless smears and unethical tactics.

It'd be better for her if she fought the honest, fair fight, then took defeat with a little dignity.

Nobody's faulting John Edwards for his campaign. He put up a good fight, but couldn't quite get the votes, so he bowed out like a gentleman, and he STILL has lots of supporters, and respect from just about everyone.

Even if Clinton wins the nomination with the tactics we're seeing, people aren't going to respect her. She will lose to John McCain, and much of the country will revile her.

Just campaign fairly. Either you'll win or you'll lose, and if you lose, at least you go out with your head held high and can try again next time.

[davsand]

49. Has Hil conceded her primary loss then?

If Obama is actually breaking a pledge about funding for the General, then that would mean he's the nominee.

Either she is conceding or she's flapping her gums about something she is no authority about--neither case bodes well for her chances for election.


HOW much longer can she keep on gong?



Laura

[CorpGovActivist]

50. .