The People Here, Most Pissed-Off About The FL & MI Delegate Mess, Are...

[WillyT]

For all the high-minded talk about the dis-enfranchisement of Democratic voters, and the destruction of democracy and fairness...

And despite any and almost all possible remedies or solutions...

It becomes clear that bottom-line, since Clinton "won" (or would have won) in those two states, that they want those damned delegates bad.

I was for some sort of do-over at first, but I don't think I want either of these states having the possibility to decide the whole enchilada.

So...

I say it is the Hillary Clinton supporters with their undies in a bunch over this fiasco, and all the high-minded talk is just cover for the frustration that their candidate is probably not gonna get those delegates.

And for kicks and bonus points...

Would you want to play cards, a board-game, any sporting event at all with people so willing to change the rules in the middle of the game? Especially when they are losing that game?

:shrug:

[goldcanyonaz]

1. How about Michigan and Florida voters?

[WillyT]

2. How About The Voters In The Other 48 States And Territories ???

:shrug:

[goldcanyonaz]

3. And, their votes aren't counting either?

:shrug:

[WillyT]

4. No... Their Votes Counted Fair And Square...

and by the rules.

[still_one]

8. So Harold Ickes, an adviser to Clinton voted that MI and FL be stripped of their delegates

now he seems to have a change of heart?

http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Clinton_aide_changes_Mich_Fla_stanc_02162008.html

Of course it is much more than that, the rules were made VERY clear, and both MI and FL violated them

The DNC made an offer that they would rerun those elections in MI and FL through a caucus, and the DNC WOULD FOOT THE BILL. Both states rejected that

MI didn't have Obama and Edwards on the ballot because they were following DNC rules

and what in the hell was FL thinking following republican rules when to have their primaries

Not much sympathy from me on those issues

[MADem]

5. What if all of the voters wrote in OBAMA!!! You don't think that Obama supporters would

"want those delegates bad?"

Naaah, they'd say 'Give 'em a do over!'


"Split 'em down the middle--it's only ... FAIR!"

Come on.

[WillyT]

7. As It Is Now, Neither Obama Nor Clinton Get Those Delegates

Because of the party nincompoops in those states. they don't exist.

:shrug:

[still_one]

13. I can say as an Obama supporter personally I would NOT be oppossed to it

The rules were laid out clearly to MI and FL, and they choose to disregard them

The DNC said they would assume all expenses to rerun those primaries as caucuses in those states, that was also rejected by MI and FL

You suggestion that you give half to Hillary and half to Barrack, would effectively be the same as not counting them, it would be a wash

There were people who didn't vote because they didn't think the votes would count, so they lost their rights
Edwards and Obama were NOT on the ballot in MI, so those supporters lost their rights
Hillary would most likely get the majority in FL, so some of her voters would lose their rights

your proposal doesn't bother me, but I think it would bother those people in those states, for the reasons I just mentioned

[dogman]

6. So you have decided they should not count?

Maybe if Obama is elected he will appoint you to the Supreme Court.

[WillyT]

10. I Didn't Decide Anything, Elements In Those State's Democratic Parties Did !!!

But thanks for the promotion. My job's been gettin kinda boring lately.

:evilgrin:

[dogman]

12. You should read what you wrote.

Snip>I was for some sort of do-over at first, but I don't think I want either of these states having the possibility to decide the whole enchilada.<snip
See, you could have fit in with the SC's 2000 decision on FL.

[WillyT]

15. Well... I Would Have Stayed Out Of It... Like The Courts Are Gonna Do Now...

:shrug:

[dogman]

18. Yeah, what the hell? As long as it's not your vote that's discarded.

:shrug:

[nonconformist]

9. Other: Michigan native, with many relatives and friends there (and a few in FL) nt

[WillyT]

14. Hey... I Think The Whole Thing Sucks, But I Also Don't See A Fair Solution...

except for seating them all, and splitting their votes 50\50 between the two candidates. But ya see, that's not good enough, because one candidate needs those delegates REALLY bad now, and giving them to said candidate, is unfair to the opposing candidate.

But... a certain candidate's supporters do not seem to care about that fairness thingy.

Those states were warned... I don't know what else to tell you.

:shrug:

[goldcanyonaz]

11. I just noticed that you don't live in either state. I live in Arizona but have a residence in MI.

This taxpayer has voiced her concern regarding the votes in Michigan to her state representative.

[WillyT]

16. So... How Many Times Do You Get To Vote ???

:evilgrin:

[napi21]

17. I think this is much ado about nothing! I lived in a state "for years!"

that held their primary so late in the year, it NEVER mattered who I voted for! Should I have been just as pissed as the MI & FL voters? If I was, it never mattered!
Get all pissed at the Pubs who run your damn state, or at the Dem state leaders who made the decision to break the rules, but I say TS. Most of American voters have decided, for whatever reason, not to vote in parimary elections. That's how we got in this spot to begin with. Even with the hugh turnout in the Dem primarys this year, the last # I heard, we were talking about 2% of the voters willing to get their buns out the door to vote!

I still think the final primaries will decide the nominee, but if it doesn't, that's the very reason Super Delegtes were established! Somebody has to break the tie!

[WillyT]

19. Curiously... I Live In That Same State !!!

Howdy neighbor!!!

:hi:

[Bread and Circus]

22. You know, that's one of the most insightful things to be said about this issue...

most of the time, most states have no practical say in the nomination process.

[Bread and Circus]

23. You know, that's one of the most insightful things to be said about this issue...

most of the time, most states have no practical say in the nomination process.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

20. As a long time lurker

Inching her way towards 1,000 posts... yippeee.

I really have seen many Hillary posts that were desperate for her to get those Fl and MI delegates seated.

Why? Why do you want them seated? It wasn't a fair contest at all. Sure Obama was on the ballot in Fla. but he didn't campaign there! I'm willing to bet if there was a revote the outcome would be vastly different.

It's good that I've got these resources. I'm answering questions about the election by my customers' at the pub. They are less than enthused that I'm supporting Obama (this is a country pub.... it's all white customers) and really truly believe that Hillary will win this because, according to one customer, "No black man will win." It feels as though some of the customers I serve are racist... but the younger ones are more generally accepting of me voting for Obama...

Just sayin'

[AZBlue]

21. Yeah, I argued this in another thread and it stopped the conversation.

I found it interesting that when I pointed out that rules shouldn't be changed mid-election, that Obama could have just as easily "won" if he'd bothered to campaign in these states, that his name wasn't on the ballot so why should the vote count, that these basic principles of fairness should apply no matter who the winner was...when I pointed all this out, the conversation ceased immediately.

[WillyT]

24. Kick !!!

:kick:

[girl_interrupted]

25. Probably the same voters pissed off by Florida 2000

Count ALL the votes! Bush V Gore. That's what the mantra was then. I think the Democracts shot themselves in the foot on this issue, because now 8 yrs later, they don't want to count all the votes? What were they thinking to begin with? What a mess.