Interesting Conversation with My Republican Brother-In-Law re Obama v McCain

[Emit]

While picking up my kids so that we could attend a Democratic Fundraiser tonight, my BIL says, "It has been an exciting race on your side. I caught Face the Nation this morning talking about the superdelegate thingy..." "Yeah," I say. He continues with this: "I have a lot of respect for McCain, voted for him in the caucus primary, but if Obama wins the nomination, I am going to have to make a tough decision."

My BIL has a degree in International Business and is mostly concerned with the economic aspect of the upcoming presidency -- he's big on free trade and whatnot.

I assured him that the people surrounding Obama will fit nicely with his view on globalization, making reference to the neoliberal bent that the folks supporting Obama trend toward, particularly with foreign policy. He mentions that he hated Bush for getting us into Iraq and that he thinks we should pull out and take the money we slated for Iraq and put it toward major plans for renewable energy resources -- something that would replace our dependency on oil and create jobs for Americans at the same time.

My comment. "You are not a Republican. You just think you are, but you are not..."

He chuckles, "My party left me a long time ago, but I respect McCain."

I remind him that my son, who is six, the one he was here to get tonight, will be going to war for politicians like McCain, who view our involvement with Iraq as a 100 year commitment. That hit a soft spot, "Yeah, I can't really agree with McCain on the war..."

"You're an Obama guy," I say.

"Well, I am really intrigued by him," He responds, "He's ran a flawless campaign so far..."

"We're at opposite ends of the spectrum," I say. "Obama's the lesser of evils for me ... too moderate for my tastes, (remember folks, I'm a socialist in these folks' eyes :eyes: ) with my social democratic leaning; and Obama is the lesser of evils compared to McCain for you, because he's right up your alley with his neoliberal views on trade and globalization, his talk and assurances of the US as THE world superpower ... but progressive in renewable resources, etc."

"Besides that," I add, "McCain's too old, don'tcha think? ... and I lost so much respect for him when he caved into Bush with the hugs and kisses after what Bush & Co. did to him in the 2000 primary..."

"Yeah, he kind of sold out, as if he was promised the nomination in 2008," my BIL said.

He pauses and smiles. "Maybe I am an Obama guy afterall..."

[FrenchieCat]

1. He pauses and smiles. "Maybe I am an Obama guy afterall..."

That last sentence made me smile. :)

[Cha]

2. I imagine there's going

to be more than a few conversations from different ends of the spectrum with people who are able to be reasonable like you and your BIL are.

I bet he starts investigating on his own now..check out this guy he's purported to be like. :)

[Emit]

20. I find it amazing that Obama captures so many people on the broad

political spectrum.

[dkf]

3. Thats kind of sweet! I like that.

Deep down we all want the same things. Peace Prosperity and Justice. Doesn't matter if you call yourself a Democrat or a Republican or an Independent.

Reading this gives me so much hope for our future.

:)

[ginnyinWI]

4. when we don't demonize the other side

it's easier to get them to come around. Congrats!

This is what bothers me about Hillary's rhetoric. She's adopted these "bash-Bush" slogans, and while I can't stand Bush, I am sooo past even wanting to think about him, much less spend energy hating him or talking about him. Coming from her it seems totally faked. She's a Senator for crying out loud. Her little mini-rants are pandering to the left.

I'd rather focus on the future and what we can do to heal our nation. And we do need good moderate Republicans on board to get anything really done. A house divided, and all that.

[troubleinwinter]

5. McCain is insane, but he isn't "old".

Oldest currently serving state leaders
People currently serving as head of state and/or head of government, born before 1930, ordered oldest first. A person born in 1930 is aged 78 in 2008. The list includes approximately 25 people, from about 350 current leaders.

Josefa Iloilo (President of Fiji since 2007), born December 29, 1920
Cuthbert Sebastian (Governor-General of Saint Kitts and Nevis since 1996), born October 22, 1921
Shimon Peres (President of Israel since 2007), born August 2, 1923
Robert Mugabe (President of Zimbabwe since 1987), born February 21, 1924
Sellapan Ramanathan (President of Singapore since 1999), born July 3, 1924
Abdullah (King of Saudi Arabia since 2005), born August 1924
Girma Wolde-Giorgis (President of Ethiopia since 2001), born December 1924
Giorgio Napolitano (President of Italy since 2006), born June 25, 1925
Antoine Gizenga (Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of the Congo since 2006), born October 5, 1925
Girija Prasad Koirala (Prime Minister of Nepal since 2006), born 1925
Elizabeth II (Queen of the United Kingdom since 1952), born April 21, 1926
Abdoulaye Wade (President of Senegal since 2000), born May 29, 1926
Clifford Husbands (Governor-General of Barbados since 1996), born August 5, 1926
Fidel Castro (President of Cuba since 1976), born August 13, 1926
Valdas Adamkus (President of Lithuania since 2004), born November 3, 1926
Pope Benedict XVI (Pope of Vatican City since 2005), born April 16, 1927
Bhumibol Adulyadej (King of Thailand since 1946), born December 5, 1927
Kim Yong-nam (de facto head of state of North Korea since 1998), born February 4, 1928
Arthur Dion Hanna (Governor-General of the Bahamas since 2006), born March 7, 1928
Hosni Mubarak (President of Egypt since 1981), born May 4, 1928
Karolos Papoulias (President of Greece since 2006), born June 4, 1929
Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah (Emir of Kuwait since 2006), born 1929

Oldest ever serving state leaders
People aged at least 85 while in office, ordered oldest first. Leaders serving as-of January 2008 are highlighted in italicized bold

Hastings Banda (President of Malawi), retired in 1994 aged 98 (?)
Malietoa Tanumafili II (Malietoa of Samoa), died in 2007 aged 94
Joaquín Balaguer (President of Dominican Republic), retired in 1996 aged 90
Éamon de Valera (President of Ireland), retired in 1973 aged 90
Howard Cooke (Governor-General of Jamaica), retired in 2006 aged 90
Taufa'ahau Tupou IV (King of Tonga), died in 2006 aged 88
Manuel Antonio Sanclemente (President of Colombia), retired in 1900 aged 87
Josefa Iloilo (President of Fiji), born 1920, aged 87
Cuthbert Sebastian (Governor-General of Saint Kitts and Nevis), born 1921, aged 86

Longest lived state leaders
All leaders or former leaders who have lived to at least 90 years, ordered oldest first. Leaders currently living are in bold italics

Rank Name Position Birth Death Age
1 Celal Bayar President of Turkey (1950-1960) 1883 1986 103 years, 98 days
2 Antoine Pinay Prime Minister of France (1952-1953) 1891 1994 102 years, 348 days
3 Willem Drees Prime Minister of the Netherlands (1948-1958) 1886 1988 101 years, 314 days
4 Hastings Banda Prime Minister of Malawi (1964-1966), President of Malawi (1966-1994) 1896? 1997 101 years, ? days
5 Gulzarilal Nanda Prime Minister of India (1964, 1966) 1898 1998 99 years, 195 days
6 Aden Abdullah Osman Daar President of Somalia (1960-1967) 1908 2007 99 years, ? days
7 Morarji Desai Prime Minister of India (1977-1979) 1896 1995 99 years, 40 days
8 Anthony Mamo Governor-General of Malta (1971-1974), President of Malta (1974-1976) 1909 99 years, 40 days
9 Joseph Paul-Boncour Prime Minister of France (1932-1933) 1873 1972 98 years, 237 days
10 Venceslau Brás President of Brazil (1914-1918) 1868 1966 98 years, 79 days
11 Gabriel París Gordillo President of Colombia (1957-1958) 1910 97 years, 347 days
12 Johan Ferrier President of Suriname (1975-1980) 1910 97 years, 282 days
13 Mamadou Dia Prime Minister of Senegal (1960-1962) 1910 97 years, 215 days
14 Ramaswamy Venkataraman President of India (1987-1992) 1910 97 years, 76 days
15 Pierre Harmel Prime Minister of Belgium (1965-1966) 1911 96 years, 339 days
16 Philippe Pétain Prime Minister of France (1940) & French Head of State (1940-1944) 1856 1951 95 years, 90 days
17 Léopold Sédar Senghor President of Senegal (1960-1980) 1906 2001 95 years, 72 days
18 Juliana of the Netherlands Monarch of the Netherlands (1948-1980) 1909 2004 94 years, 325 days
19 Ċensu Tabone President of Malta (1989-1994) 1913 94 years, 325 days
20 Gheorghe Apostol General Secretary of the Romanian Workers' Party (1954-1955) 1913 94 years, 288 days
21 Võ Chí Công President of Vietnam (1987-1992) 1913 94 years, 195 days
22 Charles de Freycinet Prime Minister of France (1879-1880) & (1882) & (1886) 1828 1923 94 years, 181 days
23 Malietoa Tanumafili II Malietoa (1939-2007), O le Ao o le Malo (1962-2007) 1913 2007 94 years, 127 days
24 Charles Tupper Prime Minister of Canada (1896) 1821 1915 94 years, 120 days
25 Alfonso Lopez Michelsen President of Colombia (1974-1978) 1913 2007 94 years, 11 days
26 Nouhak Phoumsavanh President of Laos (1992-1998) 1914 93 years, 315 days
27 Alfredo Stroessner President of Paraguay (1954-1986) 1912 2006 93 years, 286 days
28 Paolo Boselli Prime Minister of Italy (1916-1917) 1838 1932 93 years, 276 days
29 Gerald Ford President of the USA (1974-1977) 1913 2006 93 years, 165 days
30 Sandro Pertini President of Italy (1978-1985) 1896 1990 93 years, 152 days
31 Pierre Pflimlin Prime Minister of France (1958) 1907 2000 93 years, 143 days
32 Leo XIII Pope (1878-1903) 1810 1903 93 years, 140 days
33 Ronald Reagan President of the USA (1981-1989) 1911 2004 93 years, 120 days
34 Félix Gouin Prime Minister of France (1946) 1884 1977 93 years, 21 days
35 Giovanni Leone Prime Minister of Italy (1963) & (1968) President of Italy (1971-1978) 1908 2001 93 years, 6 days
36 Hector Trujillo President of the Dominican Republic (1952-1960) 1909 2002 93 years, ? days
37 James Callaghan Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (1976-1979) 1912 2005 92 years, 364 days
38 Mackenzie Bowell Prime Minister of Canada (1894-1896) 1824 1917 92 years, 348 days
39 Maurice Couve de Murville Prime Minister of France (1968-1969) 1907 1999 92 years, 334 days
40 Harold Macmillan Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (1957-1963) 1894 1986 92 years, 322 days
41 Éamon de Valera President of the Executive Council of the Irish Free State (1932-1937)
Taoiseach (1937-1948, 1951-1954, 1957-1959), President of Ireland (1959-1973) 1882 1975 92 years, 319 days
42 Piet de Jong Prime Minister of the Netherlands (1967-1971) 1915 92 years, 319 days
43 Mohammed Zahir Shah King of Afghanistan (1933-1973) 1914 2007 92 years, 280 days
44 Mario Echandi Jiménez President of Costa Rica (1958-1962) 1915 92 years, 246 days
45 Vittorio Emanuele Orlando Prime Minister of Italy (1917-1919) 1860 1952 92 years, 196 days
46 Frank Forde Prime Minister of Australia (1945) 1890 1983 92 years, 194 days
47 Cesare Merzagora President of Italy, (Interim) (1964) 1898 1991 92 years, 173 days
48 Yitzhak Shamir Prime Minister of Israel (1983-1984, 1986-1992) 1915 92 years, 126 days
49 Alec Douglas-Home Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (1963-1964) 1903 1995 92 years, 99 days
50 Howard Cooke Governor-General of Jamaica (1991-2006) 1915 92 years, 97 days
51 Armando Villanueva Prime Minister of Peru (1988-1989) 1915 92 years, 86 days
52 Rafael Caldera President of Venezuela (1969-1974, 1994-1999) 1916 92 years, 25 days
53 Ferruccio Parri Prime Minister of Italy (1945) 1890 1981 91 years, 323 days
54 José Joaquín Trejos Fernández President of Costa Rica (1966-1970) 1916 91 years, 306 days
55 René Pleven Prime Minister of France (1950-1951) & (1951-1952) 1901 1993 91 years, 287 days<1>
55 Amintore Fanfani Prime Minister of Italy(1954,1958-1959,1960-1963, 1982-1983,1987) President of Italy (Interim) (1978) 1908 1999 91 years, 287 days
57 Ephraim Katzir President of Israel (1973-1978) 1916 91 years, 278 days
58 Gough Whitlam Prime Minister of Australia (1972-1975) 1916 91 years, 222 days
59 Ne Win Prime Minister of Burma (1958-1960, 1962-1974), President of Burma (1974-1981) 1911 2002 91 years, 195 days
60 Dom Mintoff Prime Minister of Malta (1955-1958, 1971-1984) 1916 91 years, 196 days
61 Louis St. Laurent Prime Minister of Canada (1948-1957) 1882 1973 91 years, 174 days
62 Pierre Messmer Prime Minister of France (1972-1974) 1916 2007 91 years 162 days
63 Konrad Adenauer Chancellor of West Germany (1949-1963) 1876 1967 91 years, 104 days
64 Giovanni Gronchi President of Italy (1955-1962) 1887 1978 91 years, 37 days
65 Marais Viljoen State President of South Africa (1978, 1979-1984) 1915 2007 91 years, 33 days
66 Eurico Gaspar Dutra President of Brazil (1946-1951) 1883 1974 91 years, 24 days
67 Augusto Pinochet President of Chile (1973-1990) 1915 2006 91 years, 15 days
68 Abdul Rahman Arif President of Iraq (1966-1968) 1916 2007 91 years, ? days
69 Đỗ Mười Prime Minister of Vietnam (1988-1991) 1917 91 years, 16 days
70 Joseph Conombo Prime Minister of Burkina Faso (1978-1980) 1917 91 years, 1 day
71 Émile Loubet Prime Minister of France (1892), President of France (1899-1906) 1838 1929 90 years, 355 days
72 Pieter Willem Botha Prime Minister of South Africa (1978-1984), State President of South Africa (1984-1989) 1916 2006 90 years, 292 days
73 Kiro Gligorov President of the Republic of Macedonia (1991-1999) 1917 90 years, 291 days
74 John Gorton Prime Minister of Australia (1968-1971) 1911 2002 90 years, 252 days
75 John Adams President of the USA (1797-1801) 1735 1826 90 years, 247 days
76 Albert Sarraut Prime Minister of France (1933) 1872 1962 90 years, 121 days
77 Herbert Hoover President of the USA (1929-1933) 1874 1964 90 years, 71 days
78 Winston Churchill Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (1940-1945) & (1951-1955) 1874 1965 90 years, 55 days
79 Mario Scelba Prime Minister of Italy (1954-1955) 1901 1991 90 years, 54 days
80 Ellis Clarke President of Trinidad and Tobago 1917 90 years, 52 days
81 Billy Hughes Prime Minister of Australia (1917-1923) 1862 1952 90 years, 33 days

[Emit]

16. Old

In the context of our conversation, he is old. It's all relative.

[ORDem]

6. K & R n/t

:kick:

[rodeodance]

7. "the neoliberal bent..the folks supporting Obama trend toward".--thats the THIRD WAY--umm..

"the neoliberal bent that the folks supporting Obama trend toward"

[Emit]

9. Don't be concerned rodeodance. I'm not talking about the common folks casting votes. I'm talking

backers. But, don't worry. The folks with $ backing Clinton support neoliberal trade policies, too. The DLCers, Wall Street Democrats, DINOs, etc. have made sure that we true liberals are to make peace with globalization. Just like Bill Clinton, either an Obama or Hillary Clinton administration will be designed to help us all deal with the inevitable continued globalization rather than trying to slow it down any.

[Emit]

17. Btw, didn't Bill Clinton kick off the 'Third Way' thinking back in the early '90s? n/t

[amborin]

8. neoliberal===reaganomics

[Emit]

10. ===Clintonomics n/t

[Emit]

11. As an update to the OP, I should add that

I also encountered my Father-in-law tonight. He's been a Republican all his voting life, but recently switched party affiliation to caucus for .... Obama. Yup. It's his perspective that Obama has a vision for the future that his old party lacks.

[radfringe]

12. Bush to Obama to McCain... :eyes rolling:

Yesterday, I called my mother to let her know when I'd be coming out for a visit

as I've said before, my dad is so conservative he makes oxy-rush look liberal... lost cause in my book. Up until a few years ago, my mom has always had a more liberal bent to her voting choices.

I was holding out some hope for my mother - she did support Obama in Minnesota primary/caucus

Now she tells me - she's probably going to vote for MCCAIN in the general election - because she thinks obama or clinton would be worse for the country...

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

and this is from the same mother that told me two years ago she thought bush was the worst president ever, and regretted voting for him TWICE

but MA, McCain is worse than bush - all he's offering is MORE WARS and LESS JOBS

Ma: well, I think the other two would be worse for the country...

I'm going out there at the end of March for a visit.... all I can say is that my brother and sister better be around ALOT and keep me inebriated

[Emit]

14. Egads, radfringe

She supported Obama in the MN caucus but is going to go with McCain in the GE!?

Sometimes there's just no comprehending the thought process. In my years of walking and knocking, I've met quite a number of folks who were just so down on Bush & Co. but would NEVER bring themselves to vote for anything but a Republican. My other BIL is more like that -- he and I rarely talk politics.

[joeprogressive]

13. Nice job, I have had several similar experiences

I tell them that they are Obamacans. I have converted at least a dozen to date. A month or so ago I would pitch HRC also when it looked like she stood a chance. That ended up getting them all fired up to vote republican. Now I only push Obama and that has great success. If I can engage them in a dialogue and get them to listen for just a few minutes; they usually come around.

[Emit]

15. Sadly, none of these Repubs

I'm referring to would turn out for Clinton. No way, no how.

Too much baggage, is what my FIL says -- and he's very pro-woman. In fact, an interesting assessment of their Repub history relates to their pro choice stance, for example, and that is exactly why my MIL switched parties in '04. If Clinton wins the nomination, I have no doubt these people, including my MIL, are more likely to go with McCain. :crazy: There's just something about Clinton that they can't go with. I, myself, will vote for any Dem over any Repub, and I repeat this often to them in hopes it will sink in.

[rasputin1952]

18. The pic of McCain and bush doing the "hug" is going to bury

McCain. The RW won't go near it, and the D's are gaoona plaster that thing on every TV tube and phone pole in the US. Just having anything to do w/bush is a 50 ton anchor.

[Emit]

19. Here's the video from SNL tv funhouse I just sent him

http://video.lisarein.com/tvfunhouse/mccain-tvfunhouse.mov