Clinton campaign does not accept Deval Patrick's explanation as valid

[madfloridian]

They apparently will continue to say that Obama is being a plagiarist. Howard Wolfson again.

From TPM

Wolfson and authenticity

Wolfson said the plagiarism charge still holds because listeners go in with the assumption that Obama's speeches are original, unless credit is given. "So I think it's fine that Deval Patrick said that," Wolfson said. "But what I'm concerned about is that the public has an expectation that Sen. Obama's words are his own."

Here is TPM's take on that remark:

Wolfson's concern for the public's fragile expectations would be quaint if it wasn't so transparently self-serving. Obviously, this isn't plagiarism.

But like the flip-flop line of attack Hillary is pressing on Obama's public financing pledge, the attack speaks to her campaign's effort to undermine the very thing that has been the centerpiece of Obama's candidacy: his authenticity.

Sure he gives better speeches than I do, the Hillary line goes, but the words aren't even his own. He may talk a good game about public financing, she asserts, but when push comes to shove his position is the same as mine.

The attacks are intended to bring down Obama's positives, to knock him off his pedestal. But it's hard to see how they raise Hillary's. Her argument, boiled down, is: "He's no better than me." (Or perhaps, less charitably, "He's just as bad as me.")

I would have this to say about it.....there are many aspects to authenticity. Switching positions on issues vital to voters could also be said to be lacking authenticity.

Hillary's different positions on Florida's delegates

[tabatha]

1. Well, then Hillary should stop using

"Fired up, ready to go"

[ZinZen]

79. and she should stop using "Yes we will"

[MNDemNY]

2. Kicked and recomended to keep it alive. Thanks.

:toast:

[HereSince1628]

3. Of course they don't accept it. It would disarm their argument,

and by God you know, they are out to make an argument.

This plagarism issue is more transparent than the meaning of IS! Much more.

[JackORoses]

4. Howard Wolfson is a disingenuous bastard

"But what I'm concerned about is that the public has an expectation that Sen. Obama's words are his own"

Does Hillary write all her own speeches?

[FlyingSquirrel]

7. She certainly doesn't right them all...

:rofl:

[JackORoses]

15. so is she a plagiarist?

[Moochy]

37. He is slimey for sure

Every interview I've seen with this flak has turned my stomach.

[Cha]

91. That asshole is "concerned" with keeping

dirty politics in the white house.

[Unsane]

5. Howard Wolfson is slowly ensuring that I will NEVER vote for his candidate

If this is how they want to win, I will never support them!

[Carolina]

76. exactly, Wolfson, Penn and Clinton

Birds of a Feather :puke:

[tekisui]

6. Hillary Clinton is the one cannot win on her own merit.

She has to attack, distort and send her loud mouth hubby out to have a chance at staying in the race.

Lucky for all of us, her knock-out punch will come when she loses Texas.

She's suck in the mud and slinging it everywhere while she tries to pull out.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. she's quite desperate n/t

[Bread and Circus]

8. Wolfson is human garbage, just like Penn and Ickes.

[tekisui]

12. A bunch of dirt spewers. And this is how a third Clinton term would look.

No thank you.

[jefferson_dem]

71. I'm embarassed to share a political party with these slimy cretins.

n/t

[HeraldSquare212]

9. Well, Hilary Rosen is a Hillary operative - maybe they'll sue Obama on Patrick's behalf.

[Avalux]

10. LOL - this is getting absurd. I am beginning to feel sorry for Hillary.

If they're "only words" anyway, who really cares what Obama says. Why make such a big deal out of words? :rofl:

[yourguide]

11. Months ago...

I leaned Obama but would have been happy to vote Clinton if Obama didnt make it. Now, considering how unpleasant and foolish their campaign has been and how obnoxious the Hillbots have become I would hold my nose voting for her and certainly wouldnt be enthusiastic in telling others thats who I voted for.

That camp is becoming desperate.

[Ashy Larry]

13. Does the public understand that Hillary's words

come from this guy?

[Quixote1818]

29. Exactly. nt

[peaches2003]

30. Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson

both working for Hillary is enough for me to say I will never vote for her even if she gets the nomination. You are known by the people with whom you keep company- Hillary should have thought of that before hiring these 2 pigs.

[Carolina]

77. exactly, totally agree

birds of a feather :puke:

And I will never vote for her.

K&R

[Quixote1818]

14. Don't most candidates have speech writers anyway?

The words are almost never really theirs but the speech writer's. :shrug:

[blogslut]

16. This is so sad

I mean really really sad. They simply can't see how desperate they look.

[madfloridian]

41. It is sad. Her advisors have been in a bubble...

and it is going to hurt her campaign.

[AtomicKitten]

17. It's just another faux outrage rant from ClintonCo whose campaign is devoid of an actual message.

It may be too soon to cry, but I wouldn't rule it out just yet. It is a lifetime between now and tomorrow's election.

[Egnever]

19. Theres a suprise.

[tishaLA]

20. I literally laughed out loud at Wolfson's comments

And Josh's comments just sealed the deal...."He's just as bad as me."

[tridim]

21. I'm *this* close to saying I wont vote for Hillary even if she wins the nomination

She's running the most self-destructive campaign I've ever seen.

It's sad really, because I liked her just fine a month ago. Not so much today.

[GarbagemanLB]

22. Oh I passed that mark a long time ago.

Third party or write-in if she wins.

[thoughtcrime1984]

45. I'm there after the traitorous teaming up with McCain

re: campaign finance

[eleny]

23. Grabbing a longer shovel, huh?

Not the best idea.

[dkf]

24. Yeah the whole plagiarism line was transparent.

And so many on DU fell for it.

Sad.

[rinsd]

25. He's no better than me works for Hillary though.

There are minute differences between them in policy but right now people are choosing Obama over her not as a matter of policy but personality.

Blunt that advantage and she wins.

[pocoloco]

26. "plagiarism" LOL

Where in hell is all those god damn elusive straws??

[Renew Deal]

27. Hillary's campaign is pathetic and her supporters should be embarrassed.

Hillary's campaign stands for nothing.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Obama is just going to win bigger because of this bs.

[bunnies]

31. Ridiculous. Pathetic. & Sad.

Why the hell would anyone hire this tool?

[Adelante]

36. The Politics of Personal Destruction

requires tools in the prick sense of the word.

[bunnies]

52. It should be called the Politics of Party Destruction.

Since thats exactly what camp Clinton is doing at this point.

[Faygo Kid]

69. You're both right. This is desperate garbage by the Clinton camp.

I sure have had my eyes opened around here by the Hillary supporters. Unbelievable stuff. Looks like they are hell-bent on proving every negative charge against Hillary Clinton the GOP has made, at least as far as tactics.

[ProSense]

32. The TPM link has been updated, Wolfson backtracking.

Late Update : Jake Tapper reports on the same conference call I referenced above:

The Clinton Campaign Just Now...

February 18, 2008 11:33 AM

In a conference call just now the Clinton campaign would not guarantee that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, has never used someone else's rhetoric without crediting them.

I asked Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson and Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass, if they could assure the public that neither Clinton nor McGovern has ever done what Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, did when he used the rhetoric of Gov. Deval Patrick without footnoting him.

They would not.

In fact, Wolfson seemed to say it wouldn't be as big a deal if it were discovered that Clinton had "lifted" such language.

"Sen. Clinton is not running on the strength of her rhetoric," Wolfson said.

Hmmmm.

So it's a big deal only because Obama's "rhetoric" is powerful and appealing?

[madfloridian]

50. Not sure he is backtracking....but if so it would not be enough now.

This was so over the line. I posted this below before I saw yours.

[DEMocracity]

87. In other words... if Hillary does it it's no big deal because

everyone knows she's a liar.

Good strateegery.

[BenDavid]

33. The Audacity of Plagarism …If just one or two phrases repeated,

I’d give him the benefit of the doubt and call it a coincidences…but 4 phrases repeated with the same cadence, tone and intonation?

Obama uses old school “gold dust preacher” tricks to hypnotize crowds: steadily increasing volume of voice and music, steadily increasing his cadence, chanting/repeating the same words and phrases over and over and over, swaying, saying something very general that can apply to all then quickly saying specifics to grab different parts of the crowd and pull them in. If it gets really warm where he’s speaking, that’s another technique.Maybe Obama is studying speaking styles that work and forgot that he studied that guy.uh huh

Joe biden called Obama and told him “I feel your pain” Obama replied “I heard that before but thanks I plan to use it !”

Did Deval Patrick’s version make a thrill go up Chris Matthews’ leg? Next Obama will take credit for MLK’s “I Have A Dream”

[bowens43]

34. Apprently they are graduates of the Karl Rove school of Campaigning.

This is really sad, all she is doing is confirming the negative impression so many of us have of her.

[ellacott]

35. This is so shameful

They really need to stop this pettiness. This is so childish and I don't want anyone this petty running this country.

What the Obama campaign needs to do now is get Deval to do a campaign ad for Obama talking about this subject. They should end it with Hillary talking about being, "Fired up and Ready to Go".

[loveangelc]

38. Like I've said, this is really stupid. I have yet to see this even on tv.

[DJ13]

39. Hillary's whiny campaign is starting to get on my nerves

Just saw on MSNBC that now they're complaining that an Obama supporter dared to yell out Obama's name during a campaign speech Hillry gave.
:eyes:

Hillary, stop the whining!

[MethuenProgressive]

40. Obama instructed Patrick to call the NYTs and cover for him? What job was Deval promised in return?

Chicago-style politics, without the police dogs. (so far)

[madfloridian]

42. Oh, jeez...

what does one say to that? I am speechless.

[Forkboy]

46. LMFAO

[rox63]

58. You know as well as I do that Patrick and Obama are long-time friends

You may or may not know that one of the speechwriters from Patrick's campaign now works for Obama. Note the similarity between "Yes we can" and Together we can". They each do this with the other's permission.

It's not plagiarism if he has the original person's permission to use it.

[jefferson_dem]

72. LOL! You're chuck full of unhinged paranoid delusions...

per usual.

[DemGa]

43. Regurgitated soaring platitudes? Oh my...nt

[thoughtcrime1984]

44. All they do is argue and look to stir up shit, very negative

Is this what we want in the WH? Really????

[madfloridian]

47. Update. They are digging the hole deeper.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/the-clinton-cam.html

"The Clinton Campaign Just Now...
February 18, 2008 11:33 AM

In a conference call just now the Clinton campaign would not guarantee that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, has never used someone else's rhetoric without crediting them.

I asked Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson and Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass, if they could assure the public that neither Clinton nor McGovern has ever done what Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, did when he used the rhetoric of Gov. Deval Patrick without footnoting him.

They would not.

In fact, Wolfson seemed to say it wouldn't be as big a deal if it were discovered that Clinton had "lifted" such language.

"Sen. Clinton is not running on the strength of her rhetoric," Wolfson said."

eeeeeek

[GarbagemanLB]

48. WOW. That is really pathetic.

[stillcool]

51. at least they are consistent...

what they do, say, doesn't matter.

[Obamaniac]

49. Clinton campaign: grasping at straws

They are desperate.

[K Gardner]

53. HRC Camp doesn't accept any of the states that have voted.. or rules.. or voters.. so

we shouldn't be surprised Hillary doesn't accept anything that doesn't benefit Hillary.

[RamboLiberal]

54. As I said in another post they are really pissing me off

with this crap and I'm seriously considering not voting for her in the GE if this is the tactics she needs to win the nomination.

And I'm questioning what kind of president she would be if this is the way her campaign is run. From the obvious mismanagement, the financial problems, the trying to change rules she agreed to, to this crap is really turning me off!

[Carolina]

80. exactly, I was such an ardent Clinton supporter in the 1990s

but the behavior of this campiagn has me questioning whether some of the right wing stuff about the Clintons didn't have some truth to it.

I stopped supporting Hillary after her IWR and other go along with Bush to get ahead politically votes.

I now am actually starting to loathe her to the point that I won't even vote for her in the GE. She and her campaign are despicable.

[RamboLiberal]

84. Same here - I loved Clinton/Gore

I remember in 1992 walking 3 miles in McKeesport, PA to see them speak at McKeesport's Kennedy Park as they did the bus tour right after the convention.

But I'm so disappointed in how they are conducting their campaign and the desperation they are showing. It's win at all costs and to hell with the Democratic Party.

[TwilightGardener]

55. Ah, the desperate Clinton campaign, bankrupt of ideas and strategies.

Pathetic. She's sunk to a new low. I can't even IMAGINE Obama's campaign making an issue of this if the situation was reversed--and there's so much about her that he HASN'T hit her with. He's showed so much restraint on her sorry ass. If she doesn't lose the nom, I'll sit back and laugh when she loses in November, because she doesn't deserve to be President.

[cottonseed]

56. This is the dragging down into the mud I've been waiting for.

The not-so-bright side of this is that we can expect another 2 weeks of it after this Tuesday going into March. Hopefully, by then they'll come to their senses and just find a bush to lay under.

[elixir]

57. Ah, Joshie Marshall. Such an unbiased, balanced source on HRC...not.

BO plagiarized Duval's speech because he didn't credit the author. These are big things to the general electorate, you can't brush them off as Hillary taking low shots. And, unfortunately, if BO doesn't have his credibility and image he really doesn't have much else. There's a lot in the balance on this one.

[qazplm]

61. Please

a speech is not a thesis paper. Few people have "original ideas" and there is relatively few things new under the sun.

IF Patrick were not his campaign co chair, good friend and hadnt TOLD HIM he should use this language, perhaps you'd have the inkling of the beginning of a point.

Since however the opposite is the case, you and the Clinton campaign look utterly foolish to try and push this what can laughably be called I suppose an attack.

Plagiarizing is STEALING, and you can't steal what someone has freely given you.

[madfloridian]

64. Then hey....ok by me. Let her continue down this road. Go for it.

We know it will be good for Obama over all. People are tired and weary.

[LiveLiberally]

59. OK -- as a resident of WI -- I don't get it....

Someone explain to me how this is helping the Clinton campaign the day before the WI (and Hawaii) vote? Instead of hearing about what Clinton will do for us about health care, jobs etc... we're being treated on all the networks to petty bickering about the use of a few words in a speech?? If the argument is that words don't matter, but substance does, shouldn't the campaign be focused on that? Call me politically naive... BUT that is exactly my point. Elections are wide open and pretty simple up here and facts and substance do matter most. Which is perhaps why Obama has been adding policy points to his stump speeches in WI and why Clinton is....focusing on rhetoric???? Again, I don't get it.

[rox63]

60. Because that's all they've got

The Clinton campaign is bankrupt when it comes to ideas, and to positive things about their own agenda. So they have to resort to bringing down their opponent to lift themselves up. Pathetic.

[kennetha]

62. Obama basically admits it was a mistake

He basically admits he used words not his own without attribution as if they were his own http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-campaign.html">here. That's pretty much the definition of plagiarism. But then he goes on to try to say it's not a big deal. We'll see.

[madfloridian]

67. I think Hillary should keep on with this attack. Let her keep on.

I love it. It is so ridiculous. It will help Obama.

[GoldieAZ49]

63. We know there isn't much policy difference between them

What Hillary doesn't get is WE JUST DO NOT LIKE HER

and there in lies the biggest difference between the candidates

[Thrill]

65. Desperation and Panic

This is really weak

[Cogito ergo doleo]

66. Famous speechwriter on writing speeches

http://blog.ragan.com/archives/speechblog/2006/12/

From Hal Gordon's blog, "Speechwriter's Slant":

"You say that it is “hypocritical” of me to object to preachers using canned sermons, since I’m a professional speechwriter and I, in your phrase, “write words that other people use but don’t attribute to you.”"

"speechwriting is much more of a process –- a dialogue, if you will, between the speaker and the speechwriter -- than an exercise of individual creativity. I don’t know how much experience you may have had with speechwriting, but in my nearly 25 years as a speechwriter I have written for top advisors to President Reagan, the chief executives of some of this country’s leading corporations and General Colin Powell. Do you really suppose that a poor scribbler like me goes to the office of a leading political figure or CEO, hands him a finished speech and says, “Here are your lines for your next event. Please don’t muff them”?"

snip/

"When I produce a first draft, the speaker reviews it, and either re-writes it or tells me how he wants it re-written. This process is repeated through the second, third, fourth -– or as many drafts are needed until the speaker is satisfied that the speech reflects his ideas and his style of speaking. And even then, it is not uncommon for the speaker to depart from the text during the actual delivery.

That’s why the speaker does not say, “In the words of Hal Gordon, my speechwriter…” Because they are his words."

[Abacus]

68. How many times has Hillary credited her speech writers? /nt

[sampsonblk]

70. This is making the Clintons look even worse

Its so sad because they both have done wonders for the black community. But at the moment, (at least among those I've talked to) the Clinton's have really tarnished their reputations among blacks.

Very unfortunate. It didn't have to be this way.

[Vinca]

73. Well, Deval is the supposed "victim" in all of this.

If he's not bothered by it and Howard Wolfson still is, somebody needs to go in search of a life . . . or a campaign . . . as the case may be.

[johnnydrama]

74. maybe i'm wrong

But most times I hear a response from an Obama spokesman, it's humorously done with a daft touch.

When I hear things from Clinton people it's shit like the Red States count 1/2 as much, and crap like that, over and over, and over.

Maybe Hillary's the nicest gal out there, but the people she puts up front to speak for her are clowns.

[shadowknows69]

75. Well then they need to be sued for slander

If the author says it's ok, it's ok, sorry Hillary.

[catgirl]

78. Do we care if they accept it or not?

How 'bout dropping out Hillary, so we can get on with it.

[peaches2003]

81. Tell him to sue

Maybe Wolfson, Penn, Bill and Hill can all sue Obama for "stealing words from a government official". What a whiner she has become. :boring:

[Skidmore]

82. This is from the woman who says that some states don't count

and some voters are second class? This is from the woman who could even make up her own campaign slogans for a while?

[Garbo 2004]

83. Hillary should stick to the issues. She's a more attractive candidate IMO when she talks about

issues and shows that she is substantive and shares core Democratic values. But maybe that's just me.

This stuff just plays to the perception (held by some/many?) that she's a classic low road politician, willing like the Repubs to do anything to win. This doesn't serve her well IMO.

[peaches2003]

94. You think it is just a 'perception'?

I thought the fact that she is a classic low road politician was clear to almost everyone.

[Garbo 2004]

96. I was trying to be diplomatic.

Some Hillary supporters apparently really don't see that this stuff has any blowback potential.

A Clinton surrogate on TV first denies the campaign has anything to do with sending this stuff to the media, then appears to admit that they "brought" it to the media's attention.

People have been citing the Biden flap years ago. When it was traced back to the Dukakis campaign, which initially denied their involvement, Dukakis had to fire his campaign manager & political director. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/biden.htm

That was then of course. I doubt any heads will roll over this in the Clinton campaign. Although the campaign may have gone better if a couple of 'em (Penn & Wolfson) had been thrown off the bus much earlier.

[RamboLiberal]

85. Someone needs to send this to Hillary from Obama Dec 2007

"But you know in the end, don’t vote your fears. I’m stealing this line from my buddy (Massachusetts Gov.) Deval Patrick who stole a whole bunch of lines from me when he ran for the governorship, but it’s the right one, don’t vote your fears, vote your aspirations. Vote what you believe."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/obama-scoffs-th.html

[NorthernSpy]

86. Imagine, if you will, FOUR YEARS of her shit...

:scared:


gOBAMA!

[Raine]

88. That figures...they are showing such

desperation, they must be in terror of Obama getting the nomination.

[Cha]

89. Then they won't mind if I call

hilary a freakin' desperate asshole who needs to stop trying to bring down the country with her rabid lust for power. Oh, and those slobbering attack dogs she unleashes..they need to get back in the kennel.

[totodeinhere]

90. This is just another example of fake outrage from the Clinton people.

They know damn well that Obama did not intentionally plagiarize, but they see a chance to make some political points. This is the type of old gotcha politics that Obama is trying to change.

[grantcart]

95. it is almost over

[JVS]

92. The Clintons are experts when it comes to unsatisfactory explanations

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

93. Why is he criticizing Obama for something Clinton does as well?

Typical Clinton Hypocrisy

[DemGa]

97. He's not just a plagiarist

Obama copied an entire campaign -- he's a complete fraud.

His followers have been hoaxed. And yes, I'm quite serious.