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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:23 PM
Original message
It's a little bit more than plagiarism
I was watching videos of Deval Patrick: the chants of "yes we can" the message, the affect -- all eerily similar. I think Obama is a phony.

Obama's campaign IS Deval Patrick's campaign.


http://www.devalpatrick.tv/
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. They're good friends...... so?
Hillary's campaign is eerily similar to Richard Nixon's in 1968...... and George Bush's in 2000.

Which "eerily similar" campaign offends you more?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. O Noez! Just when we were all getting bored with the topic--
Nurse, more bullshit, STAT!
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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And get this - Obama's campaign is actually stealing more ideas!
I've seen bumper stickers with his name on it, along with the year "2008". That's not original at all! He's stolen that from someone else, I'm sure of it!

And I'm pretty sure he's done the same thing with t-shirts, as if the bumper stickers weren't bad enough!!!
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. LOL! More brazen by the day--he must be stopped!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is going to seem really cynical, but that's fine with me.
Every Republican running for office sounds like every other one. Guess what? It works. It's about time we Dems learned effective message discipline. If I ran the party, every Democratic candidate, from school board to Congress would be parked in front of Obama making speeches until they got the message down pat.

For a political discussion board, some of y'all are kinda naive about how elections work.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Former Clinton Speechwriter Weighs In On Plagiarism-Gate '08 "

Former Clinton Speechwriter Weighs In On Plagiarism-Gate '08


We asked former Bill Clinton speechwriter David Kusnet if today's plagiarism accusations against Barack Obama were justified. In his mind, was what Obama did acceptable, or a violation of speechmaking ethics? Here are his thoughts ...

Barack Obama’s greatest strength is the originality of his rhetoric. Sometimes he talks like a regular person, as in his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, when he introduced himself as “a skinny kid with a funny name.” Sometimes, he sounds like a president from an earlier, more historically literate era, as when he situates his campaign in a tradition that includes the American Revolution, the abolitionists, and the emergence of the labor movement, the civil rights movement, and other social struggles. But only rarely, if ever, does he use the familiar freeze-dried phrases that most current politicians favor. To borrow a phrase from the UAW, the “domestic content” of his speeches is unusually high.

That’s only one of many reasons why it’s so silly to accuse Obama of plagiarism because he used some of the same phrases as his friend and ally, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick (who, I should add, was helpful to me when he was assistant attorney general for civil rights at the same time I was a speechwriter for President Bill Clinton). If plagiarism is borrowing rhetoric without permission, Patrick most likely is happy to have Obama sound similar notes, such as hope and inspiration being more than “just words.” Even if Obama and Patrick didn’t know each other, they might use some of the same phrases because similar public figures frequently draw on common streams of public rhetoric. For instance, labor leaders often echo Walter Reuther or A. Philip Randolph; civil rights leaders draw upon the same scriptural passages and historical sources; and conservative Republicans repeatedly invoke Ronald Reagan. Similarly, John Edwards borrowed a rhetorical technique from his campaign manager, fellow populist and former Michigan congressman, David Bonior: His litany would begin “Somewhere in America,” and then he’d describe a social or economic injustice, such as a worker losing his job and his family’s health insurance. While Politico ran a story about this, it is hardly unusual for a candidate to share a rhetorical technique with his leading adviser.

After all, if there is one sentence from Scripture that is literally true, it is this line from Ecclesiastes: “There is nothing new under the Sun.” To be condemned as plagiarism, a political speech needs to be grievously offensive--using lots of distinctive but little-known material from another source without attributing it to that speaker or receiving his or her permission.
For instance, in 1987, Joe Biden once used, without attribution, a speech by the British Labor Party Leader Neil Kinnock, in which Kinnock credited social programs with the fact that he was the first in his family to have attended college. By borrowing the speech and inserting his own name, Biden suggested that the men in his family had been coal miners when, in fact, as Maureen Down dryly noted, his father had been an auto dealer. (In fairness, Biden had quoted Kinnock when he had given the speech on other occasions.) Does what Obama did come close to what Biden did? Absolutely not. Next scandal, please.

--David Kusnet

Posted: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:30 PM with 11 comment(s)

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/18/former-clinton-speechwriter-weighs-in-on-plagiarism-gate-08.aspx
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe Deval Patrick built Obama
like Darth Vader built C3PO! Oooo Noez!!
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Like Jon Stewart Built Conan O'Brien
and somehow it all goes to the bump Mike Huckabee got by Stephen Colbert.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. Give me a brake. This man Obama could talk before you know.
My God this stuff has been running around in some people s minds for years. These people just do not spring out of the cabbage patch. It has all been sort of on the back burner for years. The Progressive movement has been with us for a very long time.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Pssst. Here's a clue: hire the same consultant, get the same campaign
Politics is just like any other business. If you hire an architect, you expect her/him to design a building that's like ones s/he has done in the past.

Same goes for political campaigns. Sorry if that bursts your bubble.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Right, it's a format...kind of my point
It's not original; it's not even HIM. Who the hell is Obama?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Excuse me...
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 06:05 PM by JackRiddler
You're just noticing this?

System as it is, there are like five or six possible winning campaign formats total. Ever. They've all been studied and repackaged repeatedly.

"Storm the Establishment!" (Carter '76, Reagan '80)

"Hope n Change, I'm so Young" (JFK '60, Clinton '92, Obama '08)

"Restore Values" (Bush '00)

"New Ideas for a New Century" (Hart '84, Gore '00)

"Scare the Shit out of YOU" (Bush '04, likely McCain '08)

"Not *Too* Much Change Now, We're Rich" (I Like Ike, Bush '88, Clinton '96)

"Kill the Scapegoat!" (Goldwater '64, Wallace '68 - This one usually loses but it's great for third party runs; Perot '92 ran a variant with scapegoat unspecified, just anger meth and money)

"Damn, I Feel GOOD" (Reagan '84)

"Trust me, I am the ONE" (Nixon twice, Clinton '08)

I think that's about it. The only one who stands out to me as a bit off any format, or as inventing it as he goes along, is Nixon. Weird voodoo there. Incumbents can get trapped into situations where they can't fulfill a format, like Carter in '80.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Yup, his whole campaign is his words and selling himself. This
shows that there is nothing to him at all.

He talks about newness and change but he is recycled goods and people are buying it.
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. they have some of the same staff and share ideas
They have communicated with each other for years and have given each other whole sections of speeches. None of this is at all unusual among politicians who are allies and supporters of one another. Why make a big deal of it?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. OK. Whatever you say. I'm convinced. Thanks for the 100th thread on the same bogus issue today.
NEXT !!!
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Obama copied an entire campaign -- his followers should know
Just doing my part.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. You're desperate..
get a good candidate then you won't have to hilary grasp.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No, I'm correct n/t
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pointsoflight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
19. In 2006, Patrick borrowed many ideas from Obama's 2004 campaign
So many of these ideas and beliefs actually originated with Obama. They're very good friends with a similar perspective, approach, and message. Simple as that.

Oh, and most politicians have speech writers that they don't cite. Hillary is one such politician. So by the arguments being posted here, she's a plagiarist, too, right? After all, she doesn't provide the source of her words...
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surferdude1980 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-19-08 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Want to see what plagiarism is ? Check out Hillary in this
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