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Plagiarism is illegal. BORROWING, on the other hand, is perfectly acceptable.

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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:50 PM
Original message
Plagiarism is illegal. BORROWING, on the other hand, is perfectly acceptable.
It's interesting that this whole plagiarism charge came up now, since it's applicable to the paper I'm supposed to be currently writing. :(

The assignment was a "reading summary": to take an article in a scientific journal or chapters in an applicable book, and translate the scientific mumbo jumbo in our own words. However, we are ALSO required to add in plenty of fully annotated quotations from said reading, complete with bibliography (even though in this case, the "biblio" consists of only ONE author.) Our professor made sure to remind us that copying passages directly out of our sources without quotations and annotation was ILLEGAL--you would be thrown out of school, and even be made to pay a fine, if you did such a thing. Our Prof told us he had had the pleasure of catching two students plagiarizing a book he HIMSELF had written! Naturally, he noticed it right away...:dunce:

I bring this all up to make a point. People have been throwing the word plagiarism around as if it was the same thing as borrowing and paraphrasing words from other sources, which is something that nearly ALL politicians are guilty of. It ISN'T. Plagiarizing is what Joe Biden accidentally did several years ago--he quoted someone else's speech, WORD FOR WORD, in his own stump speech, but forgot (and most people agree he genuinely forgot, since he had done so on other occasions) to give credit to where that quotation came from. Naturally, Hillary's campaign, desperately searching for a perceived weakness, remembered Biden's campaign-destroying gaffe and decided to graft onto Obama's recent speech. And, predictably, they shouted from the airwaves--"He's plagiarized!"

But Obama has NOT done this. He borrowed some language and phrasing from a supporter and friend of his, Deval Patrick, who apparently genuinely gave him approval to do so. But the consent doesn't really matter--it's the parsing that counts. And if you place Barack's words and Deval's words side by side, you would see that Obama has NOT copied. He borrowed. He paraphrased. He put in his own words, as I am currently doing with my own text. Now, I would say that Obama's only crime is the (very mortal) sin of carelessness, except for the fact that Deval Patrick gave permission for Obama to borrow these themes for his own use. So he's not guilty of carelessness, either. And when you consider how much speaking Obama is doing, hour after hour, day after day, the only wonder is that something like this hasn't become an issue sooner. I, for one, never doubted that some of Barack's remarks were conceived by others, in addition to the ones dreamed up by himself--nobody can speechify 24/7 without a little help from their friends.

So let me say it one more time, for the kids in the back. Obama did not plagiarize--he borrowed. The only thing I have to add to this discussion is that by using this word and painting Obama as a thief, Hillary Clinton has taken what was once a rather negative campaign and turned it into an ENTIRELY negative campaign. And other than partisans and a few suckers who aren't taking the time to do their own research, nobody is going to be taken in by such a cheap ploy this late into an unstoppable campaign.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. And he borrowed with permission! Jesus how desparate can you get. nt
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Fed_Up_Grammy Donating Member (923 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wish he had borrowed his themes from someone else. Deval
Patrick (aka Mr. Casino) isn't a very good role model.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That's beside the point, obviously.
Besides, the Clintons have plenty of friends I'm not especially taken with.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. And Bill Clinton got a blowjob in the WH from an intern. Whats your point?
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Fed_Up_Grammy Donating Member (923 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. My point is----he's a lousy governor.
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. And I heard Obama got a blow job in the back of a limo. What's your point?
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Who are you going to trust? Some crazy fat dude with no life...
...or Linda Tripp? :P
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. What bothers me about this
aside from the fact that this really isn't plagiarism is that this is what so many people in the Clinton campaign are focusing on. It smacks of desperation and lacks the kind of substance worthy of bringing up in a presidential campaign.

I would expect it is very difficult to go through life only uttering original thoughts. How many speech writers are involved in both campaigns? It's unlikely that much of anything that clinton or Obama say is totally original.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. And He Borrowed It Without Crediting the Author
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 06:04 PM by Crisco
And passed it off to the public as his own original idea. (And/Or his speechwriter's.)
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. LOL
It was the same speechwriter in either case.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. True; but at least that holds out the HOPE that he got something
better than the pap he's been pushing.

If so, I'd be interested in hearing it.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Well, then, the author should have said something. But he didn't. Know why?
Because he wants his friend Obama to win, and agreed to let him use the same talking points. (Even SUGGESTED he use it, if you know the story behind this fracas.)

It's baffling that a THIRD PARTY is the one trying to make a big stink out of this....and BORROWING is still not a crime.
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demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. As a Clinton supporter
I was very sad to hear of this today. It's petty and looks desperate. Distractions like that are for Repugs. I wish she or her campaign had just ignored it. Who cares anyway, and anyone who does care can figure it out for themselves that the Obama speech sounded very familiar.
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Hill_YesWeWill Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. No, no, no!
Don't you know how this works already? The Clinton's are not only the ultimate judge of the importance of words (for instance Obama's are meaningless and Hillary's are substantive) but they also dictate the True meaning of words at any given moment in time.

So, you see right now borrowing really does mean plagiarism, today. Get it?!

What I don't get is why they would care about Obama's borrowed words if she really still believes they are meaningless . . .

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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hmmm! Is Deval Patrick Obama? Or is Obama Deval Patrick?
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 06:14 PM by golddigger
:shrug:
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Gee, they're both black Democrats--they MUST be the same guy.
:sarcasm:
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. Isn't he suppose to be the real thing/authentic? Copycat!!!!!!
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "GOMAMA!" "YES SHE CAN!" "FIRED UP AND READY TO GO!"
Need I go on? :P
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DUyellow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. LOL
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Hillary says GOMAMA?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. ahahaha
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Without attribution, "borrowing" is plagiarism. Period.
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 07:25 PM by WinkyDink
Plenty of students have "given permission" to their friends to copy their papers. "Permission" is irrelevant.

Maybe Obama should spring for a hired and acknowledged speech-writer.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. No it isn't.
Haven't listened to a word that's been said, have you?
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
23.  Look up the word; there's nothing in the definition excepting "borrowing with
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 07:32 PM by WinkyDink
permission but without attribution". The idea is risible.

And your examples of simple phrases do not rise to the level of full paragraphs (although
Obama may copyright "Gomama" if he wants). We're not discussing the word "it".

I really don't care all that much. But I admit to being amused by the defense.
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