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Clinton Bought Bush’s War Talk, Obama Didn’t

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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:42 PM
Original message
Clinton Bought Bush’s War Talk, Obama Didn’t
by Stephen Zunes, published 2/18/2008 by The Capital Times (Madison, Wisconsin)

"In determining which of the two leading Democratic candidates would make the most competent and credible commander in chief, ... compare the public statements of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama during October 2002, when Congress voted to authorize the U.S. invasion of Iraq."

snip

The record... shows that ... Clinton support the Bush administration’s push for war... while Obama... recognized “that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military is a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained.”

snip

... Clinton insist incorrectly that Iraq had ties to al-Qaida, was “trying to develop nuclear weapons,” and that its possession of biological and chemical weapons was “not in doubt.”... that her voting to authorize the invasion was “in the best interests of our nation.”... Obama how “even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.”

On one of the most critical policy questions of a generation, a state senator from Illinois was able to figure out what an experienced member of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee could not — that Saddam was no longer a threat and that an invasion of Iraq would harm America’s national security interests.

That kind of judgment shows itself today in their respective choices as senior foreign policy advisers... Obama has assembled a foreign policy team whose members overwhelmingly opposed the war, in contrast to Clinton’s, whose members overwhelmingly supported it.

Wisconsin voters should keep this in mind in choosing which of these two Democratic candidates has the best judgment to lead this country during this next critical period.

Stephen Zunes, of Santa Cruz, Calif., is a former Madison resident and a professor of politics and international studies at the University of San Francisco. He is the author of “Tinderbox: U.S. Middle East Policy and the Roots of Terrorism.”

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/18/7120/
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama's greatest vote, the one he didn't have to make
:tinfoilhat:bama was still busy voting "present".
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. but the author compares her words,
to her vote and her gullability in trusting Bush! All in sync

Meanwhile, Obama spoke up and out against the Bushes and their war when it was not popular. He showed political courage.

He was right, she was wrong and can't admit it. And again, if YOU READ the article look at the foreign policy advisors chosen by the 2 camps!!!
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. For someone so concerned with votes, Obama sure voted "present" a whole lot
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 08:36 PM by billbuckhead
It will be the death of the Democratic party if this smiling empty suit is our nominee. The hubris of the Obama "movement" is frightening. Maybe the time's come for politcal re-alighment and new partys.. Since when is an endorsement by Ultrawarmonger Zbignew considered a plus?
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Clinton's foreign policy worries me
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. K&R!
Iraq, Iran...
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's also possible she didn't buy it...
...but was afraid of being painted as weak or not tough enough when she ran for president. So either she was gullible and bought into Bush's war pitch when just as many reputable and intelligent and qualified people knew that it was bunk, or she was so craven that she was willing to give her stamp of approval to send people off to war just to shore up her "tough on terror" credentials for her own gain.

I'm not sure which explanation makes me feel queasier.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Wouldn't BILL have had a perfect opportunity to be honest during his 3wk book tour
in 2004, but instead gave his full support of Bush and defended him against criticisms he was facing from the 'left' at that time? The 'left' attacking Bush then on his terrorism and Iraq war decisions was the Dem nominee John Kerry.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Amen.
I feel the same about so many aspects of her campaign. Either she's clueless or manipulative, and I'm not happy with either one. :(
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is such crap it is unreadable. Barack himself stated he didn't
"know how he would have voted" had he been in the Senate. he had access to nothing and was just offering an uniformed opinion. Using the yardstick that he was "against the war" as a rationale to think he is a better candidate is garbage. Bob Graham was one of the most intelligent men in the Senate and he was against the war and way more qualified than Barack and the Dems could have cared less. BS on this crap. Barack did not have a vote. He had no obligations and no pressures to do the right thing. he had no responsibility. It was really easy to be "against the war" the way he was. I am sooo tired of this.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. DID YOU READ the whole
article.

So typical to be dismissive because the war and HRC's support of it from the start until 2006 show her failed judgment and leadership.

And BTW, it was not easy to stand up and speak out against Bush and his war in 2002. That's why your girl punked out and went along.

Truth hurts.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. So why didn't HRC listen to Bob Graham
or Robert Byrd... You shoot yourself in the foot with your argument/logic because it shows just how unqualified HRC is.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Bob Graham was the only senator that voted "NO" on all three
Edited on Mon Feb-18-08 08:03 PM by Maribelle
the three being the two amendments to destroy Saddam's WMDs and the IWR.

THE ONLY ONE OF 100 SENATORS.

Where were all the holier than thous when he was running for president in 2004?????
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. "What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."
Why do you (and others) keep leaving off that sentence? That is as dishonest as it is disingenuous.

Russert misleadingly cropped Obama comment to claim he wasn't "firmly wedded against the war"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200711110004

Summary: Interviewing Barack Obama on Meet the Press, Tim Russert read a quote he attributed to Obama to suggest that he has "not been a leader against the war": "In July of 2004, Barack Obama: 'I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... What would I have done? I don't know,' in terms of how you would have voted on the war." Russert did not quote the very next sentence of Obama's statement, which was, "What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made" for authorizing the war.

During his November 11 Meet the Press interview with Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (IL) on NBC's Meet the Press, host Tim Russert asserted that "critics will say you've not been a leader against the war," and then read a quote he attributed to Obama: "In July of 2004, Barack Obama: 'I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... What would I have done? I don't know,' in terms of how you would have voted on the war." After quoting two other Obama statements on the war, Russert concluded: "It doesn't seem that you were firmly wedded against the war and that you left some wiggle room that, if you were in the Senate, you may have voted for it." However, in citing Obama's comment "What would I have done? I don't know," Russert did not quote the very next sentence of Obama's statement, which was, "What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made."

Obama made his comment in an interview reported by The New York Times in a July 27, 2004, article: "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... 'What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.'' The Times also reported that Obama "declined to criticize Senators Kerry and Edwards for voting to authorize the war, although he said he would not have done the same based on the information he had at the time":

In a recent interview, he declined to criticize Senators Kerry and Edwards for voting to authorize the war, although he said he would not have done the same based on the information he had at the time.

''But, I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports,'' Mr. Obama said. ''What would I have done? I don't know. What I know is that from my vantage point the case was not made.''

But Mr. Obama said he did fault Democratic leaders for failing to ask enough tough questions of the Bush administration to force it to prove its case for war. ''What I don't think was appropriate was the degree to which Congress gave the president a pass on this,'' he said.

Further, in a July 24, 2004, interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, Obama said that while he "didn't have the information that was available to senators," he would have voted against the Iraq war authorization:

BLITZER: Had you been in the Senate when they had a vote on whether to give the president the authority to go to war, how would you have voted?

OBAMA: You know, I didn't have the information that was available to senators. I know that, as somebody who was thinking about a U.S. Senate race, I think it was a mistake, and I think I would have voted no.

BLITZER: You would have voted no at the time?

OBAMA: That's correct.

BLITZER: Kerry, of course, and Edwards both voted yes.

OBAMA: But keep in mind, I think this is a tough question and a tough call. What I do think is that if you're going to make these tough calls, you have to do so in a transparent way, in an honest way, talk to the American people, trust their judgment.

From the November 11 edition of NBC's Meet the Press:

RUSSERT: You were not in the Senate in October of 2002. You did give a speech opposing the war. But Senator Clinton's campaign will say since you've been a senator, there's been no difference in your records. And other critics will say you've not been a leader against the war, and they point to this. In July of 2004, Barack Obama: "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... What would I have done? I don't know," in terms of how you would have voted on the war. And then this. "There's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage." That was July of '04. And then this: "I think that there is room for disagreement in that initial decision" to vote for authorization of the war. It doesn't seem that you were firmly wedded against the war and that you left some wiggle room that, if you were in the Senate, you may have voted for it.

OBAMA: Now, Tim, that first quote was made with an interview with a guy named Tim Russert on Meet the Press during the convention when we had a nominee for the presidency and a vice president, both of whom had voted for the war, so it probably was the wrong time for me to be making a strong case against our party's nominees' decisions when it came to Iraq. Look, I was opposed to this war in 2002, 2003, '4, '5, '6, and '7. What I was very clear about, even in 2002 in my original opposition, was once we were in, we were going to have to make some decisions to see how we could stabilize the situation and act responsibly. And that's what I did through 2004, '5, and '6, try to see, can we create a workable government in Iraq? Can we make sure that we're minimizing the humanitarian costs in Iraq? Can we make sure that our troops are safe in Iraq? And that's what I have done. Finally, in 2006-2007, we started to see that even after an election, George Bush continued to want to pursue a course that didn't withdraw troops from Iraq but actually doubled down and initiated the surge. And at that stage, I said very clearly, not only have we not seen improvements, but we're actually worsening potentially a situation there. And since that time, I've been absolutely clear in terms of the approach I would take. I would end this war and I would have our troops out within 16 months.
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. I compared the speeches. Hillary's of 10/10/2002 and Obama's of 10/16/2002 - plagiarism by Obama
You need to compare Obama's speeches to other's as well, such as Wellstone's. More plagiarism by Obama.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-18-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Are there sentence for sentence quotes...
or have you just plagiarized the new plagiarism buzz word.
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