Can any African Americans here shed some light on their own family's conversation regarding the race

[Bread and Circus]

I'm really curious to know how things have played out in the past 2 months, especially in regards to some of the latest attempts for the Clinton Campaign to "go negative" on Obama.

I can make a lot of assumptions given the shifts in polls and primaries but some real life stories would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

2. Wow

You have a rough family life. :hug:

[CatWoman]

3. why did you come off like that?

:shrug:

I'm quite sure this is a huge discussion among African Americans

:shrug:

[Bread and Circus]

4. I'm an Obama supporter. It's more curiosity than concern and I really

don't get anything from your post except it sounds a little rude.

If you meant to be rude, I got the message. If not...can you please illuminate?

[TheDonkey]

6. "drop dead"? yikes

[eShirl]

18. yet another addition to the ignore list

[Adelante]

19. Whoa - what was that?

[AX10]

26. A fundamentalist Obamist...

....

[Skittles]

48. isn't there some kind of spray we can get for them?

ugh

[Tatiana]

29. Textbook case of reply first, read OP second, feel really embarrassed third. n/t

[TheDonkey]

5. For me personally I was horrified by Clintons actions and changed my avatar

My 80 year old grandmother is a HC supporter. She is a big time feminist.

The rest of my family is in the Obama camp. Not mostly because of the Clinton flap or race but because what he stands for. The race-bait just made us enraged.

[Bread and Circus]

10. That's cool, thanks. It's the kind of feedback I was looking for...

I support Obama for similar reasons. To me he seems like a fundamentally good person with a great message and the ability to bring people together and dare to dream. He's got the brains, charisma, leadership skills, discipline, and character to be one of our finest Presidents. I love Michelle too, but at first I didn't think I'd like her because I thought she might be too edgy and turn people off to Barack. However when I really had a chance to hear her speak I realized how brilliant and wonderful she is.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. My great-aunt "said" she couldn't stand Obama back in December.

She just loved her some Clintons. But, once Obama started winning primaries and caucuses, she LOVES Obama.

I think her attitude towards Obama in December was fear. Thinking that white people wouldn't vote for him so why even bother supporting him.

She is also getting sick and tired of the stupid personal attacks from the Clinton camp.

On edit: everyone else in my family are for Obama. They used to like Bill, but I think that's changed now.

[Imagevision]

39. In Dec. speaking to a lady at the health center she said; " white people will never support him and

if he was elected you know they're going to kill him" I had to speak up by stating that "if the man can put his family and his life on the line for you, the least you can is back him up! She smiled and said, do you think a lot of white folks think like you -> lady you have either do the net or watch TV once in awhile...

[woolldog]

8. Briefly:

most of my family (esp the women) were for Hillary, until South Carolina. Now the majority are for Obama. Some still don't care for Obama, but were so disillusioned with the Clintons that they decided to simply not vote instead of supporting either. Generally a big sense of disappointment in the Clintons.

I've always been for Obama.

[goclark]

9. I'm taking you post as sincere and I'll answer it

I'm African American and was a huge fan of the Clinton family.

My family was surprised and happy to know that Obama was going to run.

I have proudly worked in his campaign and was impressed that so many people of various races and ages were involved.

Then came Bill!

His remarks were shocking to say the least. My family and friends could not believe that he was saying those slick remarks that were totally uncalled for.

Before Bill's remarks, there were a few friends that expressed that they were voting for Hillary -- not now!

He messed with our "Baby Boy Barack" one too many times!

[Kahuna]

14. The thing I didn't like about what Bill said, was that it was so personal..

He called him a kid. He said that he was not fit to be president. Then he misrepresented Obama's position on Iraq and called it a "fairy tale." Then Hillary said that we would be attacked if Obama won like what happened in England. I just had never a candidate attacked in such a personal and visceral manner in my entire life. They gave Barack no respect at all. They seemed to revile him like he was garbage.

[TheDoorbellRang]

30. Bill Clinton called Obama a kid? Oh, that's rich

considering that Barack's one year older than Bill was when he ran for president. Obama will be 47 in August; Clinton was 46 back in August of '92. Did he think no one could do the math?

[adabfree]

17. Black female here...too

Your story matches mine...

My entire family supported Bill, 100% both times he ran for Prez..but his actions in S.C., really turned us off..not to mention, Bob Johnson's deplorable actions while stumping for Hillary and no one in that camp calling him on the carpet for it!!

[goclark]

34. Yes, I forgot about Bob Johnson's actions

Bob " BET ~ Hip Hop all day and night" Johnson.

Not one word of a "sorry" from the Clinton camp.

And "our President" falling asleep as MLK Jr. gave his speech on MLK Day ~ with no "I'm sorry"just because he was sleepy.

He was never sleepy when he was charming us for our votes.

[LordJFT]

40. My grandma was turned off by Bill too. She's white though.

[my2sense]

11. I started out as a Hillary supporter

I started out as a Hillary supporter because I felt we would get a 2 for 1, but when the race baiting started it showed me the Clinton's true colors (no pun intended) and I took a harder look at Obama and decided to support him - hell we have a retard in the Oval office now, Obama can't be any worse (disclaimer-I plagiarized that from Chris Rock). My support for Obama has only been made stronger as I witness the other tactics the Clinton's are using to win the nomination.

[Kahuna]

12. Hopeful. Not ready to believe that BO will really win. But hopeful. nt

[Bread and Circus]

13. I've got just one thing to say

:grouphug: Believe

[Kahuna]

15. All the black folks I know are holding their breath and waiting to exhale...Oops!!

;)

[adabfree]

21. I feel ya on that one...but it's great to have hope and see the possibility

isn't it?

I still remember the stories from my grandparents and great grandmother, aunts and uncles and parents on what they had to endure..while trying to survive and raise a family here in America..in the deep south, to boot.

Like the old Kool cigarette advertisemnent use to say: We've Come A Long Way Baby!!!

I just wish my NaNa could have lived to see this moment.

[my2sense]

24. Yeah This is Still nagging at me n/t

[quantass]

16. Our family's opinion....

Although my family is Canadian (we're black) we all are very intrigued by the election and history making process that is upon your country. My family has been veyr much into politics and there were times in the past where they were for Clinton (Bill), and more recently for John Edwards...our family had always been divided when it came to Hilary Clinton...and with more information about her and the ongoing antics and lies she has been putting forth against Barack Obama our entire family has now vouched for Obama. Hilary's actions are quite disgraceful and several of us fear what she will do to your country when she gets into office....she's already admitted to being a lacky to lobbyists and we just cant take it anymore...

So, it isn't because Obama is black, it is his message and vision for your country that we personally feel he is quite exceptional and it appears a large majority of American people agree as well.

It's been very exciting to watch this election unfold even if we can't participate.

[woolldog]

20. For me

It was always a choice between Obama and Edwards. Once Edwards dropped out it was an easy choice.

[Catherine Vincent]

22. The black folks I know are voting experience and issues...not race or gender.

As far as your "going negative" talk, they are smart enough to know it comes from both Obama and Hillary.

[adabfree]

23. How many of them are there...two..lol

Ha..I couldn't resist..

[jkshaw]

25. Thanks for this, B&C,

the responses were very interesting. Sincere.

[Bread and Circus]

28. It's been a good conversation so far. I appreciate the frank responses.

[Tatiana]

27. Well my grandmother and sister are pretty angry with the Hillary camp.

Of course, they've already voted for her in the primary, so this is more of a moral outrage sort of thing.

My mom absolutely can't stand Hillary and this reinforces her opinion. She's not all that keen on Obama either, but, I think she does sympathize with him and feels like he's being unfairly attacked.

My fiance thinks it's funny. He's not exactly A-A, but he might as well be. He tells us all to "chill out" because "Obama's got this." Whatever that means...

[kwassa]

31. My wife is a maxed-out Hillary supporter, and still strongly supports Hillary

Her mother supports Hillary, and her father supports Obama.

My wife feels that she, as a high-level professional, has had more difficult issues in her career around sexism than around race, and relates more to Hillary because of that. She sees Obama as too inexperienced, and lacking any track record at all.

[Kaylee]

32. Well, my family is all in the Obama camp....

but for various reasons. My father keeps his political opinions pretty much to himself, so I can't say why he goes for Obama...but he's very politically savvy, so I know he has a good reason. My mother for some reason doesn't like Hillary, so it was no surprise that she would vote for Obama. My husband is an independent, but is cautiously behind Obama. He's pretty cynical about the American populous and a wary of getting his hopes up that a Black man can make a successful run for the White House.

I was always the "Hillary defender" and was pretty excited to see her do so well when the primary race first started. Two-weeks before the Potomac Primaries I was in a panic because I didn't know who to vote for. However, the dirty campaigning we've seen lately has caused me to reassess Hillary's character...and I don't like what I see. I have put her into the category of the type of politician we are working so hard to get out of Washington.

[redstate_democrat]

33. Sure!

My family supported the Clinton family throughout the '90s. There were, of course, many things we didn't like about his presidency, but were loyal to the Democratic party. Also, I didn't appreciate his statement at Coretta Scott King's funeral. It was very patroninzing, as if he was talking to a room full of children...waging his finger as he always does. I didn't like that. During Bush's years in office, my family became sort of disenchanted with the Democratic party in general. It seemed as if they were just going along with everything Bush wanted. Even when he stole the election, none of the leading Democrats stood up for black people who had been disenfranchised in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. When Obama started his run for the White House, we all thought it was "nice" but wouldn't go far. Most of us were actually for John Edwards and some were for Hillary Clinton. I was actually undecided for a long time, but leaning towards Edwards. I liked Edwards because he put up a little resistance to the fraud that happened in the 2004 election. He wanted to fight. But as this campaign went on over the past year, I began to really look into who Obama is. I bought both of his books and read up on the man. I went on his website and read some of his ideas. I looked at his family and his background. I liked what I saw. Then I looked at the Clinton campaign. She acted like she was already the nominee. Then I looked a bit more into Hillary's record. I didn't like a lot of what I saw. But I wanted to vote for a winner. I just thought Obama's campaign would be like every other black politicians bid for the presidency, a political statement.

Then Obama started to get momentum. I read each page of his Bluebook detailing his policies. I saw the enthusiasm from soooo many people. Yet, I still wasn't totally convinced he could do it. Then I looked at Hillary's website. It was something totally different. I read her position on health care and also read each page she had dedicated to each "group". She had something on there that said, "If you are African American, here's how my health plan can help you" "If you are Hispanic here's how my health plan can help you" "If you are a woman here's how my..." and so on and so on. Barack didn't have any of these distinctions in his health plan or in his policy book. This sort of drove home the point he has been making. Race does not matter. Gender does not matter. We need a change. So Hillary's whole breaking things down by race and gender turned me off. They are both Democrats, so most of their policy positions are the same. However, I don't want a mandate for health insurance. I believe such a plan will only give Republicans ammunition to shut it down. A plan like that would never pass. I also don't want to be told I have to purchase health insurance (although I have it) because if there is a mandate, then you must have some form of enforcement. I think the last thing you want to do is go after people for not obtaining health insurance and fine them. I think the more humane course of action would be to identify people without health insurance and look into WHY they don't have it. Helping people with the cost of health insurance is better. Treating people like freeloaders and morons does not get people on your side.

I also looked into some of the policies Hillary has been for like NAFTA and the TeleCom legislation. I didn't agree with that. I also looked into who supports her and who supports Barack. This tells a lot. I also liked the idea that a lot of his money comes from small donors. His campaign has been impressive as well. The fact that he said he wouldn't go negative on Hillary also told me a lot about his character and his respect for the Democratic party. So when Barack won Iowa, I really started considering whether or not I should vote for him. When he came close in NH, I started really considering placing my full support behind him. He and Edwards were basically running neck and neck in my book, but Obama had an edge because of Edwards' mandated health plan.

Right around this time is when Bill Clinton and many of her surrogates were making these racial remarks and basically attacking Barack's character, but then in the same breath saying how "great" he was, but not ready to be president. This basically told me that it really isn't about Barack's character, but about the fact that Hillary believes that it is her turn and that Barack should just simply wait. Then Bill Clinton made the "fairy tale" remark about Obama's position on the war when everyone in the world knows Barack has been against the war from "day one". Then the remark about MLK not really doing anything because it took LBJ to get the legislation passed. Then the remark about South Caroline and how Jesse Jackson had won there too, so basically they didn't matter at all. After all of this, I was firmly in Barack's camp. The news about Bill and Hillary Clinton's remarks had even made it to my grandparents and they really aren't politically involved. They vote Democratic and that's it. But even THEY had learned of what happened. They were disappointed in Hillary's remark about MLK because they lived in the deep south during the Civil Rights movement and marched and fought. They experienced the most vile type of racism there is. So for Hillary to discount that and then expect a vote was sort of off putting to them. If you're Jewish, it is like saying some leader who fought against the Nazi's really wasn't all that important because it took countries like the US to end the oppression of Jewish people. Maybe my comparison isn't completely on the mark, but I am trying to make a point. Or, like with the Women's Lib movement, by saying all of the women who fought to gain equality and the goals of the suffragist movement only became reality due to some man in the White House making it a reality. It totally discounts the hard work of all of the people involved. So, a combination of the issues and the Clinton's basically revealing that they have little regard for my community is what has turned a lot of black people away from them. Black people were their most loyal supporters and for them to just cast black people aside like that for a few extra votes or just to win a primary spoke volumes about their character and true intentions towards black people.

So, in the end, because the choice is between Obama and Clinton, I am for Obama.

[psychopomp]

35. My conversation with my mother

Me: So, I sent $$$ to Obama's campaign.

Mom: You did? So did we! But you sent twice as much as we did. I guess we'll have to catch up.

That was about it, really. We live on opposite sides of the planet so we talk about family things when we chat, for the most part. Up 'til then I didn't know who she supported but I was happy to find that we back the same candidate.

[oviedodem]

36. I am solidly behind Obama, my mother is the "classic" Hillary

supporter: Over 60 and female which is Hillary's demographic. My father was a clinton supporter early on like myself but we have both moved over to Obama now. I will say that other AA I have spoken to want Obama but do fear for his life.

[FrenchieCat]

37. My family is very mixed up racewise......so we are not consistently Black....

But here it is:

My Mom - White-French- Doesn't care, but thinks Clinton's been done already - She's the most apolitical.
My StepDad - Black - Obama and then some
My Husband - Black - Obama forever
My Aunt - White-French - Listens to the Will.I.Am video everyday. She's 70 and is IN love with Barack.
My cousins (Black/mixed race)--- about 17 of them (we were all gathered for a party on Sunday)-All for Barack.

My sister in law who is married to my brother and is Mexican/Swedish is being converted from Hillary (she has 5 sisters and they were raised by her mother). She's been given an Obama book (I gave it to her yesterday), an Obama Button, and has a brother in law who is actually doing work for the OBama campaign.

My daughters - Both for Obama. My eldest's husband who is Italian; for Obama (they went to his rally), my youngest; For Obama. Her Chinese Boyfriend; for Obama.

MY church 5,000 strong - must be 95% Obama now.....especially after race was injected into the campaign. It is a church with a strong female ministerial leadership....was probably 55/45 before New Hampshire.


We all saw it a mile away, when race was purposefully injected into the campaign......which was as soon as LBJ was uttered into the same sentence as MLK a week before MLK's birthday and Barack was said to "preach" and she was a "doer".

[jasmine621]

42. My family similar to yours except they feel race was injected by the media

and not by the Clintons. Most of my family likes and respects the Clintons. They think they have been unfairly smeared and accused of shit they didn't do. However, most will vote for Obama or have voted for him already. I am a Hillary supporter.

[Diamonique]

38. Not much family to talk about, but...

... my kids aren't much into politics, but they're both voting for Obama. My dad is 90, born and raised in Mississippi. He has experienced things that I can't even imagine. He was always a fan of the Clintons (as was I); but once he learned that a Black man was running, he became an Obama supporter all the way.. for obvious reasons. Btw, we live in Michigan, and my dad was *really* upset that Obama's name wasn't on the ballot. He wanted to color in that little circle next to the name of a Black man for president. He says as old as he is, he might not be around to do it in November. I keep telling him to stop talking like that. He'll be here.

Me? I vascillated between Edwards and Obama at first, alternating my contributions between the two each payday. Then I finally decided it was Edwards for me (the most liberal). All of my bi-weekly contributions went to him. When he dropped out I moved to my second choice, Barack Obama. Then I really started reading up on him and paying attention to him. Now I like him even more. Hillary was always my third choice; and the more I see of her campaign, the less I like her.

[CitizenLeft]

41. I was on the fence for a very long time.

I suppose... I guess I can't say I'm on the fence any more. I guess it's safe to say I'm in the Obama camp now. That's how new my decision is... a week old, at most.

I loved the Clintons, from the moment Bill went on and on and on and on and on at the '88 convention as the keynote speaker (I think that was the keynote speech!). I liked him, supported him, forgave him for the policies I didn't like, and though I wanted to slap the crap out of him for Monica, I forgave him that too.

When Hillary came into her own, I supported her too, from her 1st run for Senate. So when it looked like it was going to be a Clinton/Obama match-up, I was determined not to make a choice... and since I live in Ohio, I didn't have to make a choice, I thought the nom would be sewn up looong before now, and I was fully prepared to be happy with whomever the nominee turned out to be. Now I'm forced to choose.

And I choose Obama. Bill pissed me off in SC. He did. I can't get around it. It hit a visceral nerve, a "here we go again" nerve that I was surprised to see come from HIM, of all people. I'll forgive him someday - because I know it's just politics with him - but not before this primary season is over. Not before.

As for my family, my cousin, a former Communist and Panther Party member, hasn't said... LOL, he turned Republican once upon a time, too, so... there ya go. He's confused. But my guess is that he'll pull the lever for Obama on the 4th, if he votes in the primary at all. I'll ask him.

His ex-wife, also former Communist and Panther Party member, agreed with me the one time we discussed this: it's great that Obama is running a strong campaign, and that he even has a chance of winning... but EDWARDS comes closer to my beliefs and closer to how I view the issues, and so... I was disappointed to see him drop out. I wanted him to stay in. In fact, an Obama/Edwards ticket would make me very happy. Had he stayed in the race, and I thought he might win, I would've voted for him.

No matter how much I liked her, Hillary was never my choice. Given the choice between her and ANY freakin' Republican, I'd mow down grandmothers and babies to vote for her. But between her and someone further to the left? She had no chance with me in a match-up with Edwards. With Obama, it was "too close to call" until SC.

So Obama it is.

And while my decision had nothing to do with Obama being black - I'm not voting for him becaue he's black - the historic aspect of this - the feeling of pride and relief that comes over me when he makes one of his great speeches - YES, he DOES make great speeches, no matter how much Clinton supporters like to belittle him for it - is overwhelming, and I resisted that feeling for a long time. I say "relief" because it's a relief, to me, to see so much support for him coming from so many different demographics. It makes me hopeful - yes, HOPEful - that one day, racism will be an ugly rumor. We're far from it, now, but his gathering support from people other than African-Americans makes me believe that day may not be so far away. My guess is that this is exactly why his "hope" message wins so many people. I'm by far and away not the only person who looks forward to that day.

I haven't discussed this with all of my family, but the ones I have... Obama. As for my AA friends, all are for Obama. As are some of my white friends. :)

Thanks for asking!

[goclark]

43. CitizenLeft ~ you are really being honest

and that is wonderful~

That is how so many African Americans feel,the Clintons were like family to us until South Carolina.

I could not have dreamed they would go this low to get back in power.
Never.

[CitizenLeft]

45. thank you!

I got a taste of why so many people hate the Clintons. I've never had to see them in another light, I've always been 100% behind them without having to be neutral. This is new to me, LOL. But I still don't hate them. In a perfect world, they would tone down the hostilities and run together on a unified ticket, but I don't see that ever happening now.

[Tatiana]

47. I'm with you. It will take a lot for me to forgive Bill for SC.

I know it was just politics.

I know it was exercising the "Southern Strategy." Bill is many things, but a stupid man he is not. He saw the projected HUUUUUUGE African-American turnout. He was trying to mobilize the white vote. Who knew (I sure didn't), that the white folk liked hope too? (Maybe Bill did, since he ran on it in '92.)

[Voltaire]

44. Thanks for the question

I think either candidate would be better than any Republican, but not better enough to change the morass that this nation has become. I wish them both luck on that score. I find the trajectory of Obama's campaign interesting, but I cannot disabuse myself of the notion that whites will NEVER elect a black president. I hope I am wrong about that someday. My problem with Clinton is not Hillary, but the powers that have placed her in this position. These are the same sons of bitches that have lost us other elections with their so-called expertise. Well, I've had enough of that. I think that problems she is having now is that she is a good candidate running at the wrong time. She is perfectly capable, but after Bush, people want to be inspired. She is NOT inspiring to a lot of people. Nothing personal, she just ain't. I think its unfair that people hate her for the deeds of her husband or whatever irrational reason they hate her for. But them's the breaks.

I am still undecided, and sitting in Indiana, I still have over 2 months to make up my mind. At this point, I hope the strongest candidate wins. I am not certain who that is yet.

[CitizenLeft]

46. I think this is absolutely true

"I think that problems she is having now is that she is a good candidate running at the wrong time. She is perfectly capable, but after Bush, people want to be inspired."

I think that assessment is right on the money.